Hi people

As the subject indicates, I'm a bit concerned about the smell of my
starter.

It rises nicely and the last few loaves I've made with it have been yummy
but the smell has changed. I'm hoping that this is just a change in the
population of the bread beasties caused by using the starter more regularly
than I have previously.

Has anyone else had this problem or have any ideas ?

TIA.

ivan.

if you want to contact me privately, remove the obvious

Ivan McDonagh wrote:

Hi people

As the subject indicates, I'm a bit concerned about the smell of my
starter.

It rises nicely and the last few loaves I've made with it have been yummy
but the smell has changed. I'm hoping that this is just a change in the
population of the bread beasties caused by using the starter more regularly
than I have previously.

Has anyone else had this problem or have any ideas ?

TIA.

ivan.

if you want to contact me privately, remove the obvious

Some time ago I bought the KA New England starter. They warned me that it may
smell like "nail polish" when I got it and that it was OK for it to smell like
that.

I don't know why. Just make some bread and feed it to your mother-in-law. It
is what I call a win-win situation. ;-)

Bert

* Ivan McDonagh 2003-10-27:
Hi people

As the subject indicates, I'm a bit concerned about the smell of my
starter.

It rises nicely and the last few loaves I've made with it have been yummy
but the smell has changed. I'm hoping that this is just a change in the
population of the bread beasties caused by using the starter more regularly
than I have previously.

Has anyone else had this problem or have any ideas ?

Hard to guess what might have happened without more details on how you
have recently handled your starter. Personally I don't eat anything
that smells bad. Fresh healthy sourdough culture smells wonderful!

--
Steve W
s (dot) wal (at) verizon (dot) net

Ivan McDonagh wrote:

As the subject indicates, I'm a bit concerned about the smell of my
starter.

Don't worry about it. It is a natural thing that happens. It is only unusual
in the sense that you report the smell from starter that you are using more
often. I have only noticed that smell in starter that seriously needed to be
fed. I am thinking about a covered jar of starter that had been pushed to the
back of the refrigerator and forgotten for a time.

I think of a starch, to sugar, to alcohol, to vinegar progression as the basic
chemistry in the yeast culture. However, acetone and aromatic esters are, or
can be produced as well. In a very active culture, the areation caused by the
CO2 bubbling should disapate the minor areomatics before they can accumulate in
noticable quanities.

I suspect that your sourdough will return to normal with regular use and
refreshment. If you want to hasten the process, take a teaspoon of the culture
and build it up by doubling until you have that quanity that you wish to keep.

Regards,

Charles
--
Charles Perry
Reply to:

** A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand **

Steve W wrote in
:

* Ivan McDonagh 2003-10-27:
Hi people

SNIP


Hard to guess what might have happened without more details on how you
have recently handled your starter. Personally I don't eat anything
that smells bad. Fresh healthy sourdough culture smells wonderful!


Thanks Steve and Bert.

Love Bert's idea - all I need is a mother-in-law *grins*

Steve,

The starter is a home-grown one started and fed on the cheapest flour I
could find. Just recently, being as how I've decided to start making
bread on a regular basis rather than just playing, I got some "bakers
flour" from the supermarket and now use that instead of the super cheap
*ahem* rubbish.

Feeding regime is basically empty the whole lot into a mixing bowl to
use for bread and then add 50g flour and 50g water to whatever is left
in the starter container - there's usually a reasonable amount. Because
I'm baking every day now I just leave the starter in the open - the
weather isn't terribly hot (day time max about 25C) and it tends to be
suitably frothy and wonderful by the time I get around to using it
approx. 24hrs later.

I agree with you comments - my starter *did* smell wonderful ... if ever
I started to think life wasn't so good, I took a good sniff and
magically gained a sense of perspective

Thanks for the feedback.

Ivan.

* Ivan McDonagh 2003-10-29:
The starter is a home-grown one started and fed on the cheapest flour I
could find. Just recently, being as how I've decided to start making
bread on a regular basis rather than just playing, I got some "bakers
flour" from the supermarket and now use that instead of the super cheap
*ahem* rubbish.

Should be fine either way. I don't know the source of your problem but
have made a couple of comments based own my own experience.

Feeding regime is basically empty the whole lot into a mixing bowl to
use for bread and then add 50g flour and 50g water to whatever is left
in the starter container - there's usually a reasonable amount.

Rather than emptying out as much as possible you might consider leaving
at least 10 to 20 grams ( I would leave 50g). At some point ( not sure
when ) over-dilution may allow foreign organisms to gain a foothold in
your culture.

Because
I'm baking every day now I just leave the starter in the open - the
weather isn't terribly hot (day time max about 25C) and it tends to be
suitably frothy and wonderful by the time I get around to using it
approx. 24hrs later.

I like to use the sponge earlier, at peak strength before it starts to
get very sour and fall. I refrigerate sponge if delay will be more than
4-6 hours.


I agree with you comments - my starter *did* smell wonderful ... if ever
I started to think life wasn't so good, I took a good sniff and
magically gained a sense of perspective

Nothing better!

--
Steve W
s (dot) wal (at) verizon (dot) net

Charles Perry wrote in message ...
Ivan McDonagh wrote:

As the subject indicates, I'm a bit concerned about the smell of my
starter.

Don't worry about it. It is a natural thing that happens. It is only unusual
in the sense that you report the smell from starter that you are using more
often. I have only noticed that smell in starter that seriously needed to be
fed. I am thinking about a covered jar of starter that had been pushed to the
back of the refrigerator and forgotten for a time.

I think of a starch, to sugar, to alcohol, to vinegar progression as the basic
chemistry in the yeast culture. However, acetone and aromatic esters are, or
can be produced as well. In a very active culture, the areation caused by the
CO2 bubbling should disapate the minor areomatics before they can accumulate in
noticable quanities.

I suspect that your sourdough will return to normal with regular use and
refreshment. If you want to hasten the process, take a teaspoon of the culture
and build it up by doubling until you have that quanity that you wish to keep.

Regards,

Charles

Is the starter alive, i.e. bubbly? If so then you're most likely OK,
you are just unaccustomed to the smell.
Another cue: Is the fermentation temperature OK? Ideally, it should
hoover around 85-90F, however many people miss that very important
point...

"Nabuco" wrote in message=20
om...

[ ... ]

Ideally, it (the temperature for starter culture) should hoover around =

85 - 90F, however many people miss that very important point...

Like me, for instance. Not only miss, but don't believe.

Another point frequently missed is that you do not need to quote the
entire message to comment it.

Anybody who wants to review the subject message can download
it by clicking on the news ID, or get it at Google Groups. Messages
can be seen there threaded, so quoted/requoted/... stuff is more of an=20
obstacle and an aid.

Here is a quiz on more or less of the same subject. What is the matter
with the bread in the following photo?:

http://prettycolors.com/bread%5Fculture/ugly.jpg

The dough went to pieces during the rise, and the tops are altogether
ugly. Also I could not get it golden brown by raising the oven =
temperature
and increasing the time of the bake. And it is very difficult to toast =
without
scorching. It did not rise as well as usual. But we are eating it =
anyway,
and it tastes pretty good.

I am pretty sure I know what mistake I made, but what do you think?
How about you, "Nabuco" -- you want to take a shot at it?

--=20
Dick Adams
firstname dot lastnameat bigfoot dot com

"Dick Adams" wrote in message
...

snip

Here is a quiz on more or less of the same subject. What is the matter
with the bread in the following photo?:

http://prettycolors.com/bread%5Fculture/ugly.jpg

The dough went to pieces during the rise, and the tops are altogether
ugly. Also I could not get it golden brown by raising the oven temperature
and increasing the time of the bake. And it is very difficult to toast
without
scorching. It did not rise as well as usual. But we are eating it anyway,
and it tastes pretty good.

As the dough was well into its rise you realized you forgot to add salt. You
then re-kneaded the dough in order to work in the salt with the hope you
could salvage the bread. Then the rising process began all over again.

Serious, I have no idea if that's what happened, but I forgot to add salt
when I was baking this weekend, did the above and had results similar to
what you show and describe. That's the first time I'd done that. I can't
believe I was so absent-minded.

-Mike

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:25:11 -0600, "Mike Pearce"
wrote:

I forgot to add salt
when I was baking this weekend, did the above and had results similar to
what you show and describe. That's the first time I'd done that. I can't
believe I was so absent-minded.

May I suggest a habit to get into when doing anything that requires
several steps that you have repeated many times.

Put all the necessary ingredients and tools in one place that is
uncluttered. As you use each one, put it somewhere else that is
uncluttered, if you do not need it again. When you think you are done,
the original place must be empty or else you forgot something.

That's how surgeons do it, only they leave parts in that don't belong
there. So, after you are done, it might be adviseable to take a look
at the second place where you put things after you were done - just to
make sure you did not leave something like a spoon in the
already-formed loaf.

Dick Adams wrote:

Here is a quiz on more or less of the same subject. What is the matter
with the bread in the following photo?:

Well, obviously you have said or done something that has irritated the Bread
Faeries. Perhaps you cut too many escape slashes for them and they took that as
condensending on your part. Who knows? Sometimes they get ticked off for reasons
beyond our ken.

Regards,

Charles
--
Charles Perry
Reply to:

** A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand **

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 17:07:04 GMT, Charles Perry
wrote:

Here is a quiz on more or less of the same subject. What is the matter
with the bread in the following photo?:

Well, obviously you have said or done something that has irritated the Bread
Faeries. Perhaps you cut too many escape slashes for them and they took that as
condensending on your part. Who knows? Sometimes they get ticked off for reasons
beyond our ken.

It's even simpler than that. In a drunken stupor, he ****ed in the
starter.

Charles Perry wrote in message ...
Ivan McDonagh wrote:

As the subject indicates, I'm a bit concerned about the smell of my
starter.

Don't worry about it. It is a natural thing that happens. It is only unusual
in the sense that you report the smell from starter that you are using more
often. I have only noticed that smell in starter that seriously needed to be
fed. I am thinking about a covered jar of starter that had been pushed to the
back of the refrigerator and forgotten for a time.

I think of a starch, to sugar, to alcohol, to vinegar progression as the basic
chemistry in the yeast culture. However, acetone and aromatic esters are, or
can be produced as well. In a very active culture, the areation caused by the
CO2 bubbling should disapate the minor areomatics before they can accumulate in
noticable quanities.

Paint thinner smell ?
It is likely the ester, ethyl acetate , the esterification reaction of
the alcohol formed by the yeast and the acetic acid formed by the
lactobacteria
CH3CH2OH + CH3COOH = CH3CH2COOCH3 + H2O

It is volatile substance and that material is the predominating smell
of ripe banana flavor so its not toxic at such very small quantities.
Roy

.... A small correction, Roy. The equation should be:

CH3CH2OH + CH3COOH ---- CH3CH2OC(O)CH3 + H2O

Your equation shows methyl propionate as the product, not ethyl acetate.

- Steve Brandt

"Roy Basan" wrote in message
om...
It is likely the ester, ethyl acetate , the esterification reaction of
the alcohol formed by the yeast and the acetic acid formed by the
lactobacteria
CH3CH2OH + CH3COOH = CH3CH2COOCH3 + H2O

It is volatile substance and that material is the predominating smell
of ripe banana flavor so its not toxic at such very small quantities.
Roy

Steve B wrote:

... CH3CH2OH + CH3COOH ---- CH3CH2OC(O)CH3 + H2O

Roy, Steve, I don't know how you guys remember that stuff, but I am glad
someone does.

Nearly 50 years ago the chore of drawing diagrams for those kind of
reactions for an Intro to organic chemistry class drove me to banging my
head upon the desk and thense to drink.

Regards,

Charles

--
Charles Perry
Reply to:

** A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand **