Can anyone recommend a technique for chewy french baguette.

"Bob" wrote in message =
and in =


Can anyone recommend a technique for chewy french baguette.

You persist. It was generally perceived as a facetious question.

If you are serious, get some bubble gum. Or, for distinction, some
English Toffee.

(Bob) wrote in message ...
Can anyone recommend a technique for chewy french baguette.


The simplest way to make a rather chewy bread is to use a really strong flour.
Then you can allow your teeth and gums to have work out that you crave for….
Use high gluten flour ..

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 18:00:32 GMT, "Dick Adams"
wrote:

Can anyone recommend a technique for chewy french baguette.

You persist. It was generally perceived as a facetious question.

If you are serious, get some bubble gum. Or, for distinction, some
English Toffee.

What kind of response is this?

Troll

On 08 Oct 2003 16:16:25 GMT, pamnone (Wcsjohn) wrote:

Can anyone recommend a technique for chewy french baguette.

You persist. It was generally perceived as a facetious question.

If you are serious, get some bubble gum. Or, for distinction, some
English Toffee.

What kind of response is this?
Troll

A dismissively flippant one which is all the original question deserves.

Why would you say that?

I believe that asking about the texture of bread is not flippant at
all. The store-bought french baguette I get is chewy - like a bagel.
That's the best way I know how to describe it. If you have a better
way of describing that texture, then why don't you clue us in on it.

In fact if you use the key phrase "chewy bread" in Google, you will
find many hits - I hardly doubt those articles were "flippant".

Or maybe the grammar of my original question was not understood as I
had intended it. I had intended to ask: "Can anyone recommend a
technique for making chewy french baguette bread?"

In my haste I left out the words "making" and "bread", and I also left
out the question mark. But that should not have generated stupid
responses like the ones in this thread.

If you can point out how the question is flippant I would sure like to
see it. Otherwise, you are just a troll.

Bob wrote:
Can anyone recommend a technique for chewy french baguette.


By chewy I gather you mean the stretchy quality (which also includes a waxy
appearance) of french breads. As an example, by taking a slice of bread, you
can see the webby structure of the crumb.

You need to have a dough that is high in hydration. Take care not to squeeze
out the gases of the final dough. If the dough is overhandled, the bread
will not have the loose crumb structure, but a rather closed crumb. It just
won't be the same in taste or texture. Recipes with multi-fermentations
(sponge, sourdough starter, or old dough) IMO are a must to achieve those
characteristics so elusive. The basic baguette recipe on the King Arthur
Flour site is a good one to start with. Above all, practice alot.

If you look at Samartha's sourdough site (I don't have his URL but search
the r.f.s. archives), he's got plenty of image examples of that type of lean
bread.

"Ignoramus792" wrote in message =
...

I have dick killfiled to avoid wasting time reading his posts.

Good. Then I can speak freely on this subject, so as not to embarrass
the agressively ignorant dolt with the abysmal depth of his =
self-designated
ignorance.

For one thing, *Chewy French Baguette* is an oxymoron, notwithstanding
what may be dishonestly purveyed as such in American supermarkets.

To Roy: the French make their French bread with low gluten flour,
which is what the French have, and seem to like. Possibly the crusts=20
are soft for a few moments when the come out of the oven, but by the
time the loaves reach the home, they are definitely crunchy, and a few
hours later one risks an explosion of gritty crumbs if approaching such
a loaf with a knife with intention to cut. =20

For another thing, French baguettes are not sourdough, so discussion of
them is off topic at r.f.s.

"Bob" had apparently written:

If you can point out how the question is flippant I would sure like =
(you)
to.

I did not see the post that mentioned flippant. I would not have =
guessed
that "Bob" was smart enough to be flippant. I assumed that it was a =
feeble
attempt at a dumb joke. Does "Bob" think he is the only "Bob" on the=20
in the Internet? Or even at r.f.s.? How about it, you one-name =
noobies?
Are you arrogant or brain-dead? Why don't you give us more specific =
self
designations, maybe something way out, like Bob Jones or Bob Smith or=20
something like that to make yourself seem mildly unique.

Well, "How do you make french baguettes?" is not a much better post=20
than "How do you make chewy french baguettes". Anyway, this not=20
where people learn how to make French baguettes. It is for
sourdough, and there is plenty of stuff to read before you jump in with
one-line questions, and it is pretty easy to find.

--=20
Dick Adams
firstname dot lastnameat bigfoot dot com

On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 18:17:58 GMT, "RLK"
wrote:

Can anyone recommend a technique for chewy french baguette.

The basic baguette recipe on the King Arthur
Flour site is a good one to start with. Above all, practice alot.

I have tried the KA recipe on their online cooking school (not the one
in their recipe section) and it is as close as I can get to achieving
what I want. The dough almost feels like putty at the end of kneading.

I use the KA bread flour which is higher in gluten than regular flour
(14%). I then add 1 TBS of wheat gluten for each 2 cups of flour which
raises the gluten to the 17% level KA used to sell as "high gluten"
flour.

I have found that the KA recipe is best made in 150% size. That way
you do not have to let the final loaves rise too much to get a decent
size loaf on your bagette pan. I am looking for a final product with
the density of a bagel, and the final rise of the KA recipe causes the
bread to be too small for my baguette pan. I am using the Chicago
Metallic 3 loaf perforated baguette pan.

For those readers not familiar with that particular recipe, it is at

http://ww2.kingarthurflour.com/cgibi...49560659978068

on their cooking school page. This recipe is different from the one
listed in their recipes, and it is presented in great detail. It
appears quite unorthodox in the way the dough is formed. First they
have you mix the dough for 30 seconds in a bread machine and then let
it sit for 20 mintues. Then it is kneaded for 7 minutes in the machine
and allowed to rise for 2 hours with a punch down after 1 hour. Then
it is formed into logs and allowed to rest for 20 minutes, then formed
into baguettes and allowed to rest for 20-30 minutes.

If I follow that recipe exactly the amount of dough is insufficient to
make the 3 baguettes they claim it will make. It will only make 2
baguettes for my baguette pan, so I have to increase the ingredients
50% to make enough for 3 baguettes. Otherwise I have to let the dough
rise for 60 minutes on the pans and that makes the final product less
dense, which I do not care for in this recipe.

If you look at Samartha's sourdough site (I don't have his URL but search
the r.f.s. archives), he's got plenty of image examples of that type of lean
bread.

Thanks for the reference, but my objective is not to make a better
sourdough (the KA recipe for poolish is quite adequate), but to make a
more elastic, higher density baguette. I figured that by asking the
sourdough experts here they might be able to help.

On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 19:26:51 GMT, "Dick Adams"
wrote:

For one thing, *Chewy French Baguette* is an oxymoron, notwithstanding
what may be dishonestly purveyed as such in American supermarkets.

Then why is the lead sentence in an article about sourdough bread as
follows: http://www.joejaworski.com/bread1.htm

"If you're a bread lover, nothing beats the tangy taste and chewy
texture of true San Francisco French style sourdough bread."

You are just an irrelevant troll who does not know what he is talking
about. I figure you are about 13 years old trying desperately to
figure out what puberty is all about.

Let me offer a hint: Puberty is all about leaving your anal rententive
tendencies behind and becoming a man.

Acting like an asshole troll is just anal retentive behavior.

(Ooops. sorry! I did not recognize till now that this thread was cross =
posted.)

"Bob" wrote in message =
...

Acting like an asshole troll is just anal retentive behavior.

What makes you think it is just acting?

I figure you are about 13 years old trying desperately to
figure out what puberty is all about.

Actually, I am older.

... why (did Joe Jaworsky say) "If you're a bread lover,=20
nothing beats the tangy taste and chewy texture of true San=20
Francisco French style sourdough bread."

Because his was talking about San Francisco Sourdough French
Bread. He was not talking about French Baguettes. French
baguettes are made in France in a French way. San Francisco=20
Sourdough French Bread is a California thing. I have never seen
a San Francisco Sourdough French Baguette, but, if there were=20
one, I suppose it might be chewy. =20

Joe is probably a real good guy, but he is not part of this newsgroup
and has his own way of doing things. For instance, his choice to use
a pizza tile as a cookie tin is entirely unique. Having a web site does
not necessarily make one an expert. (Both a web site and lederhosen
is better.) (Web site, lederhosen, and talk funny -- you could be=20
governor one day.)

--=20
Dick Adams
firstname dot lastnameat bigfoot dot com

(Bob) wrote in message ...
On 08 Oct 2003 16:16:25 GMT, pamnone (Wcsjohn) wrote:
The store-bought french baguette I get is chewy - like a bagel.
That's the best way I know how to describe it.

Duh….. I thought before that you want practice some mouth aerobics!g
And that was the reason for your insistence for a chewy bread..
The bakery bread(including French baguette)is usually made with bread
flour; that is the main reason for chewiness( higher protein content
flour) in contrast to the common home flour( all purpose flour).
Another reason is;The dough was mixed in an industrial type mixer(
heavy duty spiral mixer) that developed the dough extensively and that
will contribute to chewiness as well. In contrast I doubt if the home
mixer can duplicate the mixing energy input of that commercial mixers
..
A well developed dough will result in a more chewy bread than an under
mixed dough assuming the fermentation and proofing time are the same.
There are other reasons that cause chewiness in store brought French
bread:
1) In the traditional sense, the bread was made by the multi step
process such as the two stage sponge and dough or adding an old dough
etc, is the practiced by many bakers when making french bread.In
contrast their is textural difference from the baguette made by the
straight dough which is less chewy in comparison; although the
fermentation timing has something to do with it also.
2)If they employ the straight dough ( or direct process), I must have
to remind you that many of those store bought items are laden with
bread improvers that contain ingredient that strengthen the dough. If
the bread ingredient declaration includes emulsifiers E472e, enzymes(
that contains enzymatic dough toughener
xylanase/hemicellulase/pentosanase combination), and high amount of
ascorbic acid( also a dough strengthener) that will yield a tougher
dough that will be tolerant to rough dough handling and rapid
processing time that is common in the bakery. The result will be a
more chewy bread than what you made at home even if you using the same
recipe except without that institutional bread improver.
If you want to duplicate that store brought bread just think about
that information I related and try to adapt some of the ideas to your
home baking and see how it goes...
Good Luck!
Roy

Dick Adams wrote:

For another thing, French baguettes are not sourdough, so discussion of
them is off topic at r.f.s.

That would depend entirely on whether he meant good French baguettes or
bad French baguettes. I would give him the benefit of the doubt and
assume he wanted good ones. Chewiness can come from higher-gluten
flour, but it seems to me that the most important thing is that the
dough be well mixed. Generally, a slightly under-risen dough will be
chewier than a fully-risen dough.

David

Bob wrote:
a bunch of shit

Bob, I answered your question. Now please go away.

David

On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 01:54:26 -0400, Feuer wrote:

David wrote:
a bunch of shit

Bob, I answered your question. Now please go away.

David, you are not intelligent enough to assess anything in written
form. For example you are completely incapable of complying with this
written statement:

Bugger off, worthless troll!

On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 21:41:29 GMT, "RLK"
wrote:

The first thing I thought of is to omit the final rise. After it is formed
and placed in the troughs, place it direct into the oven. This would make
your crumb much denser. -Or- instead of a 40-minute rise, try a 20-minute
rise and use your 150% quantity. It will rise in the oven, just not as much
as before.

That's basically what I have done, namely, lessen the time of the
final rise. I am still experimenting with how long to let it rise. I
want a "chewy" and "dense" product, but not too "chewy" or "dense".

Another thought is to mimic the texture of bagel dough by lowering the
hydration ACK! ...sacre bleu, c'est une baguette mauvaise!

I tried that once and it was a disaster. I will mention, however, that
the dough I end up with using the KA technique is rather on the dry
side. But it is not as dry as you mention above.

I happen to like my baguettes airy and try everything in my power to avoid
the above

I also like the airy type of baguette but I wanted to be able to make
the kind of baguette that is sold in the grocery store. IOW, I am
curious as to the method, which I now believe I have found.

but since you are specifically looking for a dense texture,
give it a try. Do you think it might work?

It has worked much better than I thought it would. By not kneading the
dough much at all and by allowing it to go thru several rises, it
comes out about as close to what I want as I can get it.

I wanted to check with the experts here to see if there was something
I could do to improve on it. It appears that the technique used in
that KA online school recipe is the way to go, namely knead the bread
for only 7 minutes and then put it thru several long rises and punch
downs.