On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 10:09:20 GMT, (Bob) wrote:

On 10 Oct 2003 21:03:29 GMT, pamnone (Wcsjohn) wrote:

How much rye flour do I use per cup of KA bread flour?

For "white breads" baguettes for example I use 2% of the total flour weight ,
all of it in the starter. For bread with a proportion of wheatmeal, I will add
5% again all in the starter.

I tried to find rye flour at two large supermarket chains that have
substantial flour sections and there was none to be found.

Can you give me a popular brand name so I can look further.

Hodgson Mills is a name I find in my local Ma & Pa supermarket here in
the Philadelphia area. Health food stores are sometimes a source of
less common flours (though usually more expensive.)

DaveT

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 10:09:20 GMT, (Bob) wrote:

I tried to find rye flour at two large supermarket chains that have
substantial flour sections and there was none to be found.

Can you give me a popular brand name so I can look further.

Howdy,

A quicker way would be to ask a manager at either market. They will
happily have rye flour for you in a day or two...

HTH,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

In article ,
(Bob) wrote:

On 10 Oct 2003 21:03:29 GMT, pamnone (Wcsjohn) wrote:

How much rye flour do I use per cup of KA bread flour?

For "white breads" baguettes for example I use 2% of the total flour weight
,
all of it in the starter. For bread with a proportion of wheatmeal, I will
add
5% again all in the starter.

I tried to find rye flour at two large supermarket chains that have
substantial flour sections and there was none to be found.

Can you give me a popular brand name so I can look further.


I'v been able to find rye flour by Bobs Red Mill in several supermarkets
around here. Perhaps you could find a local grocer that carries that
brand and ask them to add rye to their next order. Some grocers are
pretty nice about special orders.

marcella

Bob, there are some really great health food stores in Houston, and I
believe there are besides Sun Harvest, at least one Whole Foods Market, and
an HEB Central Market. All of these will have rye flour of the type useful
to bread making. Whole Foods and Sun Harvest both carry it in bins. The
health food stores will carry it in small bags, as will Sun Harvest, from
Arrowhead Mills, labeled Stone ground.

One of the best starters I have used for Poilane bread began with a handful
(one cup) of cracked rye I purchased for 67 cents from Whole Foods. I think
the recipe for this was in Reinharts book BBA, but it could easily have been
in Glezer's Baking in America. Sorry, I can't remember which one.
Hope this helps.
gw
"Bob" wrote in message
...
On 10 Oct 2003 21:03:29 GMT, pamnone (Wcsjohn) wrote:

How much rye flour do I use per cup of KA bread flour?

For "white breads" baguettes for example I use 2% of the total flour
weight ,
all of it in the starter. For bread with a proportion of wheatmeal, I
will add
5% again all in the starter.

I tried to find rye flour at two large supermarket chains that have
substantial flour sections and there was none to be found.

Can you give me a popular brand name so I can look further.

[ R.F.S. only. NOT CROSSPOSTED ] (I love it!)

Dick Adams wrote:

The requirement for sterilizing the flour is pretty much unique with
you (Samartha),

The issue I labeled as "baloney" was the "catch air" sourdough organisms
method using flour.

You don't seem get it (for whichever reason) - if you want to "catch"
any local organisms floating in air or being attached to floating
particles like dust, you sure as hell would need something totally free
of germs, like sterile growth media on petri dishes or - as I said,
sterilized flour which - by the way is very hard to obtain, see Ed
Wood's book describing his attempts.

Any attempts avoiding sterilized growth media will cause random results
at the best, severely biased towards the one on media with the highest
germ counts, which may be your more or less hairy nose.

Imagine a botanist/microbiologist hunting for environmentally endemic
germs using non sterile growth media. S/he would get fired on the spot.

As for your claim that white flour is "almost" sterile, I'd like to see
any scientific references supporting your theory giving germ (or colony
building unit) counts besides your own test. The only I have seen show
counts in the gazillions and your claim of "almost" sterility does not
make sense at all.

What surprises me that your (hairy?) nose did not inoculate the "almost
sterile" flour with your tests. Did you sniff antiseptic stuff by any
chance?

Anyway,

happy nose-incolating..

Samartha

--
remove -nospam from my email address, if there is one
SD page is the http://samartha.net/SD/

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 18:02:48 GMT, Marcella Tracy Peek
wrote:

I'v been able to find rye flour by Bobs Red Mill in several supermarkets
around here. Perhaps you could find a local grocer that carries that
brand and ask them to add rye to their next order. Some grocers are
pretty nice about special orders.

I found a health food store nearby that has rye flour. Now all I have
to find is a store that has San Francisco sourdough starter.

Thanks for your help.

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 14:19:49 -0500, "gw" wrote:

Bob, there are some really great health food stores in Houston, and I
believe there are besides Sun Harvest, at least one Whole Foods Market

I found a health food store nearby that has it.

Bobs Red Mill
FLOUR,OG,DARK RYE

Arrowhead Mills
FLOUR,OG,RYE

Bobs Red Mill
FLOUR,OG,DARK RYE,STNGRND

It appears that you are recommending the last item but it is more
expensive than the other two. Is it essential to get the stoneground
variety?

and an HEB Central Market.

There is a new HEB store where I live but it does not carry rye flour.

Now all I have to find is San Francisco sourdough starter in Houston.

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 14:34:55 -0500, "gw" wrote:

I've been informed (probably unreliably) that Texas Ladies are only
equired to wrestle 1 steer and cap a small gusher before they are allowed
breakfast which is invariably served from the back of a chuckwagon by a man
called Pete
sporting a beard that has it's own ecology - can this be true?

I guess I wasn't raised a lady....

I think the beard was in reference to a man. Ladies don't usually
appear in public with beards - at least outside the PRA they don't.

But they do carry guns. When the county court finally got around to
putting up a metal detector, they collected a large box of guns from
women's purses the first day it was operational.

"Samartha Deva" wrote in message =
...

As for your claim that white flour is "almost" sterile, I'd like to =
see
any scientific references supporting your theory giving germ (or =
colony
building unit) counts besides your own test.

What scientific references could relate to the flour in hand?

My experience is that batter from new white flour at room temperature=20
usually does not show activity for 5 days or more, sometimes not for
weeks.

A good starter comes up in less than 2 days, so it gets the upper=20
hand over any possible contaminants. Unless there is activity in a
control consisting of batter only, in the same amount of time, or not
much more. Good not to use the whole start for that reason.

What surprises me that your (hairy?) nose did not inoculate the =
"almost
sterile" flour with your tests. Did you sniff antiseptic stuff by any
chance?

I keep my nose out of the cultures. It is only prudent to do so. Old
people have nasal hair. So what? What is your point??? Are you=20
suggesting we should sterilize our noses? Cautery maybe?

A lot of air passes through the nose. It is the job of the nose to =
remove
particulate matter from the air which passes through it. What happens =
to=20
the particulate junk? Well, most is swallowed, if that makes you =
starter=20
sniffers feel save at all.

---
DickA

Dick Adams wrote:


(Today's French, I understand, are having trouble finding authentic
baguettes because of the recent introduction of modern mass
production techniques in many French bakeries. Curiously, the
baguette, which became common in France about half way through
the last century, represented a means to achieve better bakery
efficiency -- it baked rapidly on account of its large surface and
small volume so that its production time could be as short as five
hours.)

Actually, French baguettes are better today than ten years ago. The
government stepped in and created "Boulangers". To be a boulanger, the
entire baguette process must take place in the same place that they are
sold. For another, more bakers today are using much better ingredients,
including biologique. As a result the typical, very dry and airy but
tasteless, baguette is fast disappearing.
--
Alan

"If you reject the food, ignore the customs, fear the religion, and
avoid the people, you might better stay home."
--James Michener

Hi Bob,

A word of friendly warning. I just made one of John's breads with his rye
starter. Be very sure you have the starter in a *very* large container.
:-) That thing is really active; I thought I had a Bemelman's Bakery event
in my kitchen.

Barry

"Bob" wrote in message
...
On 10 Oct 2003 21:03:29 GMT, pamnone (Wcsjohn) wrote:

How much rye flour do I use per cup of KA bread flour?

For "white breads" baguettes for example I use 2% of the total flour
weight ,
all of it in the starter. For bread with a proportion of wheatmeal, I
will add
5% again all in the starter.

I tried to find rye flour at two large supermarket chains that have
substantial flour sections and there was none to be found.

Can you give me a popular brand name so I can look further.

"alzelt" wrote in message=20
news
Actually, French baguettes are better today than ten years ago.

I would not know -- I have not been there for decades. My impression
is that some people think your "better" ones are worse.

... more bakers today are using much better ingredients, including=20
biologique.

Flour, water, salt, yeast and biologique?? =20

As a result the typical, very dry and airy but tasteless=20
baguette is fast disappearing.

But still good with some frommage and jambon, I'll bet.

The new ones -- are they chewy yet?

---
DickA

Dick Adams wrote:

"alzelt" wrote in message
news

Actually, French baguettes are better today than ten years ago.


I would not know -- I have not been there for decades. My impression
is that some people think your "better" ones are worse.


... more bakers today are using much better ingredients, including
biologique.


Flour, water, salt, yeast and biologique??


As a result the typical, very dry and airy but tasteless
baguette is fast disappearing.


But still good with some frommage and jambon, I'll bet.

The new ones -- are they chewy yet?

---
DickA



Since you haven't been there in decades, a bit of translation is in
order. Biologique is the word for organic flour. But then, you knew
that, right.

The way that Parisians have been heading towards the bakers who can
rightfully call themselves Bounlangers is telling. Yes, you can still
buy the very light and tasteless baguettes that replaced that which was
good at one time. At one time, the loaves that most French preferred
were chewy and tasty. Then they got the idea that it would handier to
prepare this bread in baguette form, and weight.

The rest is history. A generation of terrible baguettes.

To your last question, I would say that more and more are become chewy
and tasty. I doubt that it will all change overnight, but eventually the
overall level of baguettes will improve.

And yes, I find that a baguette stuffed with fromage and jambon is still
a treat, only more so.

--
Alan

"If you reject the food, ignore the customs, fear the religion, and
avoid the people, you might better stay home."
--James Michener

"alzelt" wrote in message=20
...

Biologique is the word for organic flour. But then, you knew=20
that, right.

No, I did not know that. I thought it was an adjective. Well, do you
suppose that organic flour imparts more flavor to the bread baked from
it than does the unorganic kind?

The rest is history. A generation of terrible baguettes.

I liked 'em.

... I would say that more and more (French baguettes) are become=20
chewy and tasty. I doubt that it will all change overnight, but =
eventually=20
the overall level of baguettes will improve.

Now I see that you have a point, and that "Bob" may be on the right
track. I found a chewy baguette at the supermarket, but I am not sure
if it is French. Also, here in the northeast (USA) the supermarkets =
have
sliced Italian loaves, and they are pretty chewy, too. I mean by that =
that
they are not crunchy and crummy like the baguettes in France used to be.

How many can remember Joanne who posted here a while bac? She=20
said that she could not find any decent bread near where she lived in=20
France. But here we find nice chewy baguettes and Italian bread in the
supermarkets. How Providence is smiling upon us!

---
DickA

Iggy's http://www.iggysbread.com/ sells some baguettes, but the French
one's are not sourdough. I mean to check 'em out to see if they are =
chewy.
For chewy, I have tended towards the larger loaves.

Dick Adams wrote:

"alzelt" wrote in message
...


Biologique is the word for organic flour. But then, you knew

that, right.

No, I did not know that. I thought it was an adjective. Well, do you
suppose that organic flour imparts more flavor to the bread baked from
it than does the unorganic kind?

Let's just say that the use of organic flour is not limited to the
States. That you choose to use it or not, is not the issue. It is the
decision of the bakers that make that choice. As for me, I admit that I
am not a good judge of whether one tastes better than the other. It is,
however, a known quantity that organic veggies contain little or none of
chemicals that we would prefer not to absorb. Natural beef that
contains no hormones as well as milk containing no hormones add nothing
that could be a detriment to our health.


The rest is history. A generation of terrible baguettes.


I liked 'em.

What can I say. Some people like velveeta, too.


... I would say that more and more (French baguettes) are become
chewy and tasty. I doubt that it will all change overnight, but eventually
the overall level of baguettes will improve.


Now I see that you have a point, and that "Bob" may be on the right
track. I found a chewy baguette at the supermarket, but I am not sure
if it is French. Also, here in the northeast (USA) the supermarkets have
sliced Italian loaves, and they are pretty chewy, too. I mean by that that
they are not crunchy and crummy like the baguettes in France used to be.

I will disagree with you on this point. A chewy baguette can, and does,
have a good crunchy crust. Traditional bakers in France use a high heat,
much in desire when looking for a crunchy baguette. Bakers that can make
bread chewy and not crusty are not reproducing that which I know I can
get in France.






--
Alan

"If you reject the food, ignore the customs, fear the religion, and
avoid the people, you might better stay home."
--James Michener