"Julie" wrote in message =
om...

My original question was basically a yes or no with only a simple
explanation or link to relevant info needed.

I saw the question as complex and multipartite, to wit:

(1) Does leaving the dough to rise longer result in a lighter loaf?

(2) If this is not the case could I please get tips for making lighter
white yeast breads. =20

(3) I don't know if sourdoughs are supposed to be light or heavy....

(4) but if both apply please advise on how to do both.

Your question(s) inspired some discussion, and some links were
given. It would be difficult to conclude that a yes or no answer=20
was in the cards for your particular question(s).

I would like to ask you this, Julie from North Ireland: Did you
feel that any of the discussion in the thread which followed your
inquiry was useful?

--=20
Dick Adams
firstname dot lastnameat bigfoot dot com

Julie wrote:

Samartha

I don't know how you came to the conclusion that by asking questions
"People like Julie "
--

Well Julie, you are right. Maybe I should have been more considerate. I
thought you were gone.

Now, with your original post:

I like making breads (regular not sourdoughs. I am making starter now
for my first sourdough bread) but most of the time they are quite
heavy and I was wondering if leaving them to rise longer would make it
lighter.

As I understand this, you are getting dense loafs with yeast for some
reason and like it to be different with sourdough?

What recipe and procedure are you using when you make your bread to get
this result?

When you make such a statement: "most of the time ... quite heavy", it's
like: "I have a car, it starts but goes kind of slow and I am wondering
if I use a different fuel brand, would it run better?". Ask a car
mechanic this question, look at his face and figure what he thinks about
you. Maybe he makes an association you better don't want to know...

It may be a good idea to get the dough mechanics to work with baker's
yeast and once this turns out all right, use sourdough.

With sourdough, you introduce a lot more complexity and with it not
being working well with baker's yeast, it may not be a good starting
place.

Maybe this helps:

http://www.pbs.org/juliachild/eaters/artisan.html

Forget about the starter creation if it's Nancy Silverton's grape
starter baloney, but the other videos could be informative:

Decorative Sourdough Loaves
French Baguette, Part 1
French Baguette, Part 2

Although Joe Ortiz's air yeast catching statements are painful to listen
to and definitely misleading - looks to me there is a lot of odd
information in the videos and I think it's good to watch it "between the
lines". I definitely found it helpful.

Good luck,

Samartha

--
remove -nospam from my email address, if there is one

"matt s" wrote in message
om...

As for the idea of being fed up with newbie questions, perhaps
starting a new ng would be appropriate, perhaps:

rec.food.sourdough.advanced
rec.food.sourdough.wiseonesonly
rec.food.sourdough.holierthanthou

or for the generally curmudgeonly:

rec.food.sourdough.n'erdowell

I love it! I'd go to any one just for the entertainment.
Janet

"Julie" wrote in message
om...
I have a question for both regular bread and sourdoughs...

Does leaving the dough to rise longer result in a lighter loaf?
Thanks
Julie
Northern Ireland...

The first thing that I wanted to know Julie, is 'how do you decide how long
to let the dough rise?'
Janet

"Dick Adams" wrote in message

Your question(s) inspired some discussion, and some links were
given. It would be difficult to conclude that a yes or no answer
was in the cards for your particular question(s).

I would like to ask you this, Julie from North Ireland: Did you
feel that any of the discussion in the thread which followed your
inquiry was useful?


Of course I found it useful. I went to the links and I am reading through them.

I appreciate the advice given. I have taken it in and will use it to suit my needs.

Thanks.

Samartha Deva wrote in message


Well Julie, you are right. Maybe I should have been more considerate. I
thought you were gone.


Shows you what thinking does....;-)



Now, with your original post:

I like making breads (regular not sourdoughs. I am making starter now
for my first sourdough bread) but most of the time they are quite
heavy and I was wondering if leaving them to rise longer would make it
lighter.

As I understand this, you are getting dense loafs with yeast for some
reason and like it to be different with sourdough?

I was wondering what sourdough it supposed to be like when cooked.

What recipe and procedure are you using when you make your bread to get
this result?

I use a very basic white bread recipe. Water, Flour,Yeast, Salt,little
bit of sugar Water.


When you make such a statement: "most of the time ... quite heavy", it's
like: "I have a car, it starts but goes kind of slow and I am wondering
if I use a different fuel brand, would it run better?". Ask a car
mechanic this question, look at his face and figure what he thinks about
you. Maybe he makes an association you better don't want to know...

When I say quite heavy ..I mean Heavy...How the weight of the loaf
feels in comparison to the size of the finished product.

Also does the oven type make a difference...I have a fan assisted
(convection ) oven and cannot turn off the fan....(Which is no good
for meringues :-( ).
So perhaps that has something to do with it. Yes or No?


It may be a good idea to get the dough mechanics to work with baker's
yeast and once this turns out all right, use sourdough.

Will do this while I am fiddling with a starter. I know I should
obtain a reliable one. I have asked for one and hope to get it soon.
BUT I would like to try out differing ways of making my own.



Forget about the starter creation if it's Nancy Silverton's grape
starter baloney, but the other videos could be informative:


Actually I am trying to make YOUR Starter as described on:

http://samartha.net/SD/MakeStarter01.html

Which was given in a link in one of the threads. I started it and am
changing it over from Rye to Strong Bread Flour. I have one kept Rye
and one I am changing over to see how it goes.

Good luck,

Samartha


Thanks....I will be making a try with normal yeasty bread to see if I
can get the result I want until my starter is ready.

Cheers
Julie

Julie wrote:

As I understand this, you are getting dense loafs with yeast for some
reason and like it to be different with sourdough?

I was wondering what sourdough it supposed to be like when cooked.

What kind of sourdough bread are you wishing to make? There is a wide
variety of sourdough breads.

Normal breads have crumb - loft or density with elasticity, crust -
color - thickness density, moisture, shape, size and weight slashes...
and taste with sourness and smell.


What recipe and procedure are you using when you make your bread to get
this result?

I use a very basic white bread recipe. Water, Flour,Yeast, Salt,little
bit of sugar Water.

With this recipe, the bread should just turn out fine or be a total
failure, depending what amounts you use and how you treat your yeast -
for example, if you use boiling water, you are in trouble. Now, what is
the flour amount and ratio of flour to water? How much yeast, salt?

When I say quite heavy ..I mean Heavy...How the weight of the loaf
feels in comparison to the size of the finished product.

You mean high density - low volume with high weight, small holes in the
crumb, possibly very dense spots, darker with no holes at all? Something
like that, on top of the page (my proud first real "dud"):

http://samartha.net/images/SD/ffandfunnies.html

Also does the oven type make a difference...I have a fan assisted
(convection ) oven and cannot turn off the fan....(Which is no good
for meringues :-( ).
So perhaps that has something to do with it. Yes or No?

As long as the oven gets enough heat, it should work for basic bread -
so no.

It may be a good idea to get the dough mechanics to work with baker's
yeast and once this turns out all right, use sourdough.

Will do this while I am fiddling with a starter. I know I should
obtain a reliable one. I have asked for one and hope to get it soon.
BUT I would like to try out differing ways of making my own.

Forget about starter reliability, they are, and so is the yeast (or do
you use a 5 year old package?), it's how you treat it.

Actually I am trying to make YOUR Starter as described on:

http://samartha.net/SD/MakeStarter01.html

It is not "mine" - it's an attempted documentation of a simple natural
process which I found incredibly misrepresented wherever I looked and
many advise against doing it for whichever reasons.

Which was given in a link in one of the threads. I started it and am
changing it over from Rye to Strong Bread Flour. I have one kept Rye
and one I am changing over to see how it goes.

Is anything moving?

Thanks....I will be making a try with normal yeasty bread to see if I
can get the result I want until my starter is ready.

It would be interesting to find out what is going wrong with your bread
in the first place. If you don't get your breads to rise with baker's
yeast, the starter wouldn't help it either.


Samartha

--
remove -nospam from my email address, if there is one
SD page is the http://samartha.net/SD/

"Janet Bostwick" wrote in message

The first thing that I wanted to know Julie, is 'how do you decide how long
to let the dough rise?'
Janet


I usually have a recipe that I follow and depending on the what the
recipe says (It usally gives a time and says or until doubled.)

Cheers
Julie

Good for you, Julie! Working with sourdough, even a rye sour, certainly =
isn't rocket science. A couple (or more) of pompous, self-important =
people who frequent this forum would have you think otherwise. Sourdough =
is very forgiving and the only real danger in my long experience is to =
let it die. Ask your questions, as we all did when first getting =
started. As for the pompous, sarcastic asses, most readers have a filter =
which works very well. Just key on the name and you don't have to listen =
to their drivel any more. Happy baking!


Asking questions is not taking the easy way out....that is how people
have always
LEARNED....by asking people who KNOW BETTER than themselves...
=20
So while I am honestly not offended...I suggest you take some time to
think before making generalised and sweeping comments about people
whom you know nothing about "People Like Julie " do not appreciate it
very much.
=20
=20
=20
Thanks=20
=20
Cheers to you.
=20
Julie

Then he should get off the forum. Sharing experience is, in my opinion, =
the basic purpose of this forum. All, except for a few self-important =
asses, use it that way.

"Feuer" wrote in message =
...
Julie wrote:
stuff
=20
I think Samartha's just a bit fed up with the questions new people =
tend
to ask.
=20
David

"Julie" wrote in message
om...
"Janet Bostwick" wrote in message

The first thing that I wanted to know Julie, is 'how do you decide how
long
to let the dough rise?'
Janet


I usually have a recipe that I follow and depending on the what the
recipe says (It usally gives a time and says or until doubled.)

Cheers
Julie

It is important that you not base your rising time on a certain time period
given in a recipe. Instead give the dough all the time it needs for the
final rise. If you were going strictly by a given time, it is quite
possible that rising longer will produce a lighter bread. Oven readiness is
something you must learn by appearance and feel.
Janet

"Pawnee" wrote in message =
...

... As for the pompous, sarcastic asses, most readers have a filter =
which=20
works very well.

Here at r.f.s., there is no sarcasm, just ascerbic wit. It goes with =
the territory.
Those who can't stand the low pH should stay out of our mixing bowl
BTW, sarcasm and pomposity are unrelated talents, and rarely coexistant.
(See if you can name a public figure who is both pompous and sarcastic.)

--=20
Dick Adams
firstname dot lastnameat bigfoot dot com

"Janet Bostwick" wrote:

Oven readiness is
something you must learn by appearance and feel.
Janet

Yeah, and even after years of baking this can still be the thing that gets
me every once in a while.

-Mike

"Janet Bostwick" wrote in message

It is important that you not base your rising time on a certain time period
given in a recipe. Instead give the dough all the time it needs for the
final rise. If you were going strictly by a given time, it is quite
possible that rising longer will produce a lighter bread. Oven readiness is
something you must learn by appearance and feel.
Janet


Thanks Janet,

I will certainly play around a bit and see how it goes. I was going to
make up some bread today but couldn't manage to get to it. But when I
do I will let every know how I managed.

Again for anyone who gave honest advice.

THANKS

Cheers
Julie