HI, I'm new to baking sourdough bread and this is my first try so I have a
couple of questions. Any help given will be gratefully appreciated.

The Knight Arthur book I am using says to use a nonreactive container to
start the process. The examples given of a nonreactive container are glass
and plastic. But it doesn't say what not to use. I see many clear acrylic
jars with lids that look convienent to use. I'm wondering what kind of
containers are considered reactive and shouldn't be used?

I was also wondering if I can do the final rise and bake the bread in a
standard 2 quart glass pyrex dish. The kind with two small glass handles on
oppisite sides. The book says the dough will be wet; and everytime I try to
bake wet bread dough, without some kind of support, it has a tendancy to
spread. What is the best way to bake sourdough bread? Thanks in advance.
Frank

Frank103 wrote:
HI, I'm new to baking sourdough bread and this is my first try so I have a
couple of questions. Any help given will be gratefully appreciated.

The Knight Arthur book I am using says to use a nonreactive container to
start the process. The examples given of a nonreactive container are glass
and plastic. But it doesn't say what not to use. I see many clear acrylic
jars with lids that look convienent to use. I'm wondering what kind of
containers are considered reactive and shouldn't be used?

Reactive is in this context anything which may oxidize or be reactive to
acid which is developed in the process - plain metal containers, iron,
aluminum, (outdated: copper, zinc, lead).

I was also wondering if I can do the final rise and bake the bread in a
standard 2 quart glass pyrex dish.

Probably ok - you may have issues with dough sticking to the wall - or
not. Better a http://images.google.com/images?q=banneton

Or contraptions using flax cloth to hold dough - depends on the shape
you want to make.

The kind with two small glass handles on
oppisite sides. The book says the dough will be wet; and everytime I try to
bake wet bread dough, without some kind of support, it has a tendancy to
spread. What is the best way to bake sourdough bread?

Oven - somebody else may answer that in more detail.

S.

"Frank103" wrote in message ...

What is the best way to bake sourdough bread?

Best is way out there. This photo suggests an easy way:
http://www.prettycolors.com/bread%5F...Jun07bread.jpg

The blue things are teflon sheets. The silvery thing is an
aluminum tray. My thought is that it is laudibly green to start
the bake in a cold oven. It would be best to do it in a solar
oven.

It should be mentioned that the loaves are covered during
the rise with a plastic clothing box. Otherwise the dough surfaces
would dry out and become inelastic.

--
Dicky

On Jun 24, 11:46 am, "Dick Adams" wrote:
This photo suggests an easy way:http://www.prettycolors.com/bread%5F...Jun07bread.jpg

Dick,
Are the two photos pre-proof and post-bake, or pre-bake and post-bake?
You are getting a huge amount of oven spring if the latter - and a lot
of rise even if it is the former.
Very nice results in either case.

Doc

Samartha Deva wrote:
Frank103 wrote:
HI, I'm new to baking sourdough bread and this is my first try so I
have a couple of questions. Any help given will be gratefully
appreciated.

The Knight Arthur book I am using says to use a nonreactive container
to start the process. The examples given of a nonreactive container
are glass and plastic. But it doesn't say what not to use. I see many
clear acrylic jars with lids that look convienent to use. I'm
wondering what kind of containers are considered reactive and
shouldn't be used?

Reactive is in this context anything which may oxidize or be reactive to
acid which is developed in the process - plain metal containers, iron,
aluminum, (outdated: copper, zinc, lead).

I was also wondering if I can do the final rise and bake the bread in
a standard 2 quart glass pyrex dish.

Probably ok - you may have issues with dough sticking to the wall - or
not. Better a http://images.google.com/images?q=banneton

Or contraptions using flax cloth to hold dough - depends on the shape
you want to make.

The kind with two small glass handles on oppisite sides. The book says
the dough will be wet; and everytime I try to bake wet bread dough,
without some kind of support, it has a tendancy to spread. What is the
best way to bake sourdough bread?

Oven - somebody else may answer that in more detail.

S.

I have used glass Pyrex pans and a cast iron fry pan the right size for
my loaves. I grease them and sprinkle them with cornmeal and haven't
had any sticking issues.

It turns out I have one of those 'banneton' baskets, just didn't know
it. The one I have is too big for most loaf sizes I want. I do have
smaller baskets though.

I didn't realize you used something to actually shape the loaf, I also
get spreading on free standing loaves unless I make them dryer than I
like them.

I use a ceramic crock for my sourdough starter and a wood spoon to stir
it. I don't know why, but I think glass or ceramic is better than
plastic for growing bread.

Mike

I store my starter in 8 oz anchor glass covered storage bowls. I
usually replace only under 1/4 cup of starter each time or a couple of
semi rounded table spoons. I keep a rather thick starter. It hasn't
produced any hooch.

I originally started my home made starter in a pint mason jar. I have
also kept starters in a glass spice container.

Before I made my own starter I bought one from International/Ed Wood.
Then I was keeping the starter wet/liquid. It started getting a
hooch. I have since preferred my rye starter as it seems to produce a
more sour sourdough bread which I prefer most of the time.

On Jun 24, 4:30 pm, Mike Romain wrote:

I didn't realize you used something to actually shape the loaf, I also
get spreading on free standing loaves unless I make them dryer than I
like them.

They won't do that if you develop the gluten properly. Mike Avery has
some good vids on the stretch and fold technique. Google them.
Essentially you are laminating sheets of gluten with the technique...
makes the finished dough less extensible. Makes a better crumb too.

"Doc" wrote in message oups.com...
On Jun 24, 11:46 am, "Dick Adams" wrote:
This photo suggests an easy way:
http://www.prettycolors.com/bread%5F...Jun07bread.jpg

Are the two photos pre-proof and post-bake, or pre-bake and post-bake?

Above loaves have just been shaped after 1st rise. 2nd rise was fully taken
before baking, so the baked loaves (below) were not appreciably larger than
before being baked.

You are getting a huge amount of oven spring if the latter - and a lot
of rise even if it is the former.

I think about 4 volumes* in that case. 5 volumes* is possible. Frankly I
have not been able to achieve 4 or 5 volumes without bromated bread
flour.

*That is to say that the volume of the risen dough is 4 or 5 times that of the
dough after shaping. That does not include a ~1 volume increase before
shaping (and deflating).

Many people feel that sourdough bread should not rise much.

On Jun 24, 8:44 pm, "Dick Adams" wrote:
I think about 4 volumes* in that case. 5 volumes* is possible. Frankly I
have not been able to achieve 4 or 5 volumes without bromated bread
flour.

OK - now I have a more challenging target.
What kind of flour and what hydration.

"Doc" wrote in message ups.com...
On Jun 24, 8:44 pm, "Dick Adams" wrote:
I think about 4 volumes* in that case. 5 volumes* is possible. Frankly I
have not been able to achieve 4 or 5 volumes without bromated bread
flour.

OK - now I have a more challenging target.
What kind of flour and what hydration.

Please see:
http://home.att.net/~carlsfriends/di...ions%5FRev.doc (MSWord file)
http://home.att.net/~carlsfriends/dickpics/billowy.html

On Jun 25, 5:10 am, "Dick Adams" wrote:
Please see:http://home.att.net/~carlsfriends/di...Rev.doc(MSWord file)
http://home.att.net/~carlsfriends/dickpics/billowy.html
______________
Thanks for the pointers. I have seen the photos before, but somehow I
don't remember coming across the instructions.
I didn't find a reference to the type of flour or protein level.
56% is a pretty stiff dough with the flour I use, but then that may be
why I have not (yet) gotten such an impressive amount of inflation.

"Doc" wrote in message oups.com...
On Jun 25, 5:10 am, "Dick Adams" wrote:
Please see:
http://home.att.net/~carlsfriends/di...ions%5FRev.doc (MSWord file)
http://home.att.net/~carlsfriends/dickpics/billowy.html
______________
Thanks for the pointers. I have seen the photos before, but somehow I
don't remember coming across the instructions.
I didn't find a reference to the type of flour or protein level.
56% is a pretty stiff dough with the flour I use, but then that may be
why I have not (yet) gotten such an impressive amount of inflation.

I fixed the 1-page instruction to suggest GM All Trumps 50111 bread flour.
That is a bromated high-protein flour which is not available in the west, as
western folks know that bromate is poisonous. Sodium flouride is poisonous
also and it is in my drinking water and toothpaste and surprisingly I am still alive
after all of these years. Even in the east, you cannot buy bromated bread flour
at the supermarkets because bromate is not among the poisons they purvey.
Me and Jeff know Savage Bakery Supply in Waltham sells All Trumps, but
Jeff will certainly never put his family in jeprody.

Other things being equal, firm dough will tend to rise more vertically than softer
dough. Well, that is my experience -- probably not every one will agree. The
mentioned instructions say that bread made that way will have a hydration of about
60%. I do not actually weigh the constuents but calculate the hydration from the
final weight of the dough (and the constant amount of water). A way of doing
that is on the instruction sheet.

--
Dicky

Will wrote:
On Jun 24, 4:30 pm, Mike Romain wrote:

I didn't realize you used something to actually shape the loaf, I also
get spreading on free standing loaves unless I make them dryer than I
like them.

They won't do that if you develop the gluten properly. Mike Avery has
some good vids on the stretch and fold technique. Google them.
Essentially you are laminating sheets of gluten with the technique...
makes the finished dough less extensible. Makes a better crumb too.


I have used his stretch and fold method thanks.

I just find I like to work with wet dough and have to make it a bit dry
for free standing loaves vs ones I use a 'bread pan' for.

I never thought about letting it rise in a mold and popping it out just
before oven time. I will try that for sure.

Mike