OK, I am a rookie sourdough bread maker and am trying some rye for the
first time.

It started great using some dried flakes from a wheat sourdough starter
I dried out a while back and I am using the directions on Samartha's
page. http://samartha.net/index.html

What should this 'dark rye' flour smell like when first added for feeding?

I bought this stuff in 454 gm lots in plain plastic bags with only the
store sticker on them.

Mine smells very strange 'to me'. It has a 'very' strong smell of fresh
cut wood like a sawmill smell.

Is this normal?

Thanks,

Mike

Mike,

How full grain rye should not smell is "rancid" or anything in that
direction.

If your "sawmill" smell goes in that direction - well, what to do.
It may be ok for growing starters but for making bread - I dunno.

I tried to smell mine and came up with smelling "dusty".

If I would be in doubt about something, I would try it anyway and see
what the outcome is (with bread and within limits).

Worst what can happen is an awfully tasting dense clump of something
moist. On the upside, maybe something great could be coming out of it -
so what can you loose?

Mike Romain wrote:
OK, I am a rookie sourdough bread maker and am trying some rye for the
first time.

It started great using some dried flakes from a wheat sourdough starter
I dried out a while back and I am using the directions on Samartha's
page. http://samartha.net/index.html

What should this 'dark rye' flour smell like when first added for feeding?

If that's your first time growing a starter on FG rye - just go by the
book (whatever procedure you decided to do) and enjoy the trip. The
smells coming eventually on a mature rye starter are magnificent.

The starter will not bubble or develop the sponge structure as a white
one does. It will be much slower in rising. That much I can say.

I bought this stuff in 454 gm lots in plain plastic bags with only the
store sticker on them.

Maybe somebody just had a mill, took a 50 lb bag of rye berries, milled
it and filled it in plastic bags.

Mine smells very strange 'to me'. It has a 'very' strong smell of fresh
cut wood like a sawmill smell.

Is this normal?

Good question - what is "normal"? I'd say, go on with what you decided
to do and see what comes out of it.

If I would be asked by somebody who bakes white flour breads
successfully with sourdough how to approach rye baking, I'd suggest to
add a smaller portion of rye - 10, 20 % and see how this does. Then move
to higher percentages and see how a 50, 60 % rye content behaves.

With 50/60 %, the properties will go more for what to expect with pure
100 % rye and one can get somewhat prepared.

The rye/wheat mix breads are very nice breads whereas 100 % rye has it's
beauty but I sure don't want to eat it every day whereas with rye mix
bread, it could happen. But that's for me who grew up with those types
of breads.

Anyway - enjoy your undertaking,

Samartha

Thanks.

I have a dusty smell also when dry, it's when it gets wet.

It is a very fresh smell, like fresh milled wood, I am thinking it's the
bran likely as I am not used to 'whole' grain breads or what they smell
like raw.

The loaf is formed and rising now. It doesn't seem to be spreading too
bad. Aiming for Ruben sandwiches for supper hopefully.

I like your 'stages' of bread making, they behaved for me so far.

Mike

Samartha Deva wrote:
Mike,

How full grain rye should not smell is "rancid" or anything in that
direction.

If your "sawmill" smell goes in that direction - well, what to do.
It may be ok for growing starters but for making bread - I dunno.

I tried to smell mine and came up with smelling "dusty".

If I would be in doubt about something, I would try it anyway and see
what the outcome is (with bread and within limits).

Worst what can happen is an awfully tasting dense clump of something
moist. On the upside, maybe something great could be coming out of it -
so what can you loose?

Mike Romain wrote:
OK, I am a rookie sourdough bread maker and am trying some rye for the
first time.

It started great using some dried flakes from a wheat sourdough
starter I dried out a while back and I am using the directions on
Samartha's page. http://samartha.net/index.html

What should this 'dark rye' flour smell like when first added for
feeding?

If that's your first time growing a starter on FG rye - just go by the
book (whatever procedure you decided to do) and enjoy the trip. The
smells coming eventually on a mature rye starter are magnificent.

The starter will not bubble or develop the sponge structure as a white
one does. It will be much slower in rising. That much I can say.

I bought this stuff in 454 gm lots in plain plastic bags with only the
store sticker on them.

Maybe somebody just had a mill, took a 50 lb bag of rye berries, milled
it and filled it in plastic bags.

Mine smells very strange 'to me'. It has a 'very' strong smell of
fresh cut wood like a sawmill smell.

Is this normal?

Good question - what is "normal"? I'd say, go on with what you decided
to do and see what comes out of it.

If I would be asked by somebody who bakes white flour breads
successfully with sourdough how to approach rye baking, I'd suggest to
add a smaller portion of rye - 10, 20 % and see how this does. Then move
to higher percentages and see how a 50, 60 % rye content behaves.

With 50/60 %, the properties will go more for what to expect with pure
100 % rye and one can get somewhat prepared.

The rye/wheat mix breads are very nice breads whereas 100 % rye has it's
beauty but I sure don't want to eat it every day whereas with rye mix
bread, it could happen. But that's for me who grew up with those types
of breads.

Anyway - enjoy your undertaking,

Samartha

"Samartha Deva" wrote in message
news:mailman.13.1182096700.4081.rec.food.sourdough @www.mountainbitwarrior.com...
....
I tried to smell mine and came up with smelling "dusty".

Hey now! Not so close!


Dusty -- finally back in Everett. Wa.
(:-o)!
....

The finished product sure smells fine!

The loaf almost got away on me by rising very fast and my not so
'strategic' expansion cuts, but turned out just great.

http://www.imagestation.com/3118614/3908775124

http://www.imagestation.com/3118614/3908774221

I am going to shape the next batch as long oval loaves.

Mike

Samartha Deva wrote:
Mike,

How full grain rye should not smell is "rancid" or anything in that
direction.

If your "sawmill" smell goes in that direction - well, what to do.
It may be ok for growing starters but for making bread - I dunno.

I tried to smell mine and came up with smelling "dusty".

If I would be in doubt about something, I would try it anyway and see
what the outcome is (with bread and within limits).

Worst what can happen is an awfully tasting dense clump of something
moist. On the upside, maybe something great could be coming out of it -
so what can you loose?

Mike Romain wrote:
OK, I am a rookie sourdough bread maker and am trying some rye for the
first time.

It started great using some dried flakes from a wheat sourdough
starter I dried out a while back and I am using the directions on
Samartha's page. http://samartha.net/index.html

What should this 'dark rye' flour smell like when first added for
feeding?

If that's your first time growing a starter on FG rye - just go by the
book (whatever procedure you decided to do) and enjoy the trip. The
smells coming eventually on a mature rye starter are magnificent.

The starter will not bubble or develop the sponge structure as a white
one does. It will be much slower in rising. That much I can say.

I bought this stuff in 454 gm lots in plain plastic bags with only the
store sticker on them.

Maybe somebody just had a mill, took a 50 lb bag of rye berries, milled
it and filled it in plastic bags.

Mine smells very strange 'to me'. It has a 'very' strong smell of
fresh cut wood like a sawmill smell.

Is this normal?

Good question - what is "normal"? I'd say, go on with what you decided
to do and see what comes out of it.

If I would be asked by somebody who bakes white flour breads
successfully with sourdough how to approach rye baking, I'd suggest to
add a smaller portion of rye - 10, 20 % and see how this does. Then move
to higher percentages and see how a 50, 60 % rye content behaves.

With 50/60 %, the properties will go more for what to expect with pure
100 % rye and one can get somewhat prepared.

The rye/wheat mix breads are very nice breads whereas 100 % rye has it's
beauty but I sure don't want to eat it every day whereas with rye mix
bread, it could happen. But that's for me who grew up with those types
of breads.

Anyway - enjoy your undertaking,

Samartha

Interesting - great looking bread.

What kind of flour(s) did you use?

Samartha

Mike Romain wrote:
The finished product sure smells fine!

The loaf almost got away on me by rising very fast and my not so
'strategic' expansion cuts, but turned out just great.

http://www.imagestation.com/3118614/3908775124

http://www.imagestation.com/3118614/3908774221

I am going to shape the next batch as long oval loaves.

Mike

I used the basic directions on your website to make it, thanks.

I had some dried unbleached white flour starter flakes saved I used to
get the rye starter going using only rye and bottled spring water to
feed. It turned on really nice and fast, doubling in about 24 hours.

I used a 'store' brand plastic baggy of 'dark rye' flour and Five Roses
brand unbleached all purpose flour.

I used about 60% rye and 40% white 'by volume' to make it.

It made really nice Rubin sandwiches with a home smoked corned beef
brisket I cooked and smoked up.

Mike

Samartha Deva wrote:
Interesting - great looking bread.

What kind of flour(s) did you use?

Samartha

Mike Romain wrote:
The finished product sure smells fine!

The loaf almost got away on me by rising very fast and my not so
'strategic' expansion cuts, but turned out just great.

http://www.imagestation.com/3118614/3908775124

http://www.imagestation.com/3118614/3908774221

I am going to shape the next batch as long oval loaves.

Mike

"Mike Romain" wrote in message ng.com...

What should this 'dark rye' flour smell like when first added for feeding?

Rye sours can smell extremely bad. Rye sourdough is no for tender-nosed
persons.

Rye dough can look quite ugly, and is very difficult to remove from one's
fingers, and from surfaces.

Making rye bread from unadulterated rye flour is practically impossible. It
seems that Samartha is able to do it, but little solace may be taken from that
since his particular devotion to rye bread surpasses all bounds.

Of course that is no reason for the newbies not to try it.

--
Dicky

Dick Adams wrote:
"Mike Romain" wrote in message ng.com...

What should this 'dark rye' flour smell like when first added for feeding?

Rye sours can smell extremely bad. Rye sourdough is no for tender-nosed
persons.

Rye dough can look quite ugly, and is very difficult to remove from one's
fingers, and from surfaces.

Making rye bread from unadulterated rye flour is practically impossible. It
seems that Samartha is able to do it, but little solace may be taken from that
since his particular devotion to rye bread surpasses all bounds.

Of course that is no reason for the newbies not to try it.

--
Dicky

Mine was a fresh cut wood smell with the sour developing fast. It was
aromatic while growing for sure, ugly too, everyone in the house liked it.

I followed Samartha's web page for the basic directions that worked
really well. I used 60/40 rye to unbleached white flour for my first
try and well, it was very edible. :-)

Made up Rubin sandwiches with some of it and a home smoked corned beef.
Mmmm....

http://www.imagestation.com/3118614/3907878301

Mike

I have noticed that the more "whole" rye flour is the more "offending" smell
is. Actually when white rye flour is used for starter smell is quite
pleasant. With home ground whole rye flour smell is noticeably more like
medium old socks. It gets even stronger when extra bran is added. But rye
bread is excellent and no wheat bread can fill you like rye can,



"Dick Adams" wrote in message
...

"Mike Romain" wrote in message
ng.com...

What should this 'dark rye' flour smell like when first added for feeding?

Rye sours can smell extremely bad. Rye sourdough is no for tender-nosed
persons.

Rye dough can look quite ugly, and is very difficult to remove from one's
fingers, and from surfaces.

Making rye bread from unadulterated rye flour is practically impossible. It
seems that Samartha is able to do it, but little solace may be taken from
that
since his particular devotion to rye bread surpasses all bounds.

Of course that is no reason for the newbies not to try it.

--
Dicky

Dick Adams wrote:

Rye sours can smell extremely bad. Rye sourdough is no for tender-nosed
persons.

I know, this NG has been kind of slow lately, so let's talk about
starter smells instead of flour smells.

To make a starter smell bad, just let it get rotten. Rye or other
grains, my take on that is the FG flour starters will be winners over
the refined flour starers and beans are for sure much better. If you
want to go for really bad smells - how about eggs? Probably beats grain
and beans.

Rye dough can look quite ugly,

To find something "ugly" is a cultural issue and can depend very much
what you smoke. It's said that soft music and sweets can be helpful when
this ugly stuff happens to one. Use full milk swiss chocolate with
Mozart and give it a try next time. What you are going through is
absolutely unnecessary nowadays.

Ever tried Natto? I heard this is a test for newcomers to Japan to check
out if they can take the Japanese culture. Apparently a preferred
breakfast snack and does not taste bad at all...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natto
(they don't show what's under that plastic cover in that Styrofoam
container:

http://tinyurl.com/2ssya5
(stays for a month)

And that plastic sheet has holes to allow air circulation for fermentation.

The beauty of a gently round bulging FG rye starter with the seductive
fruity ripe smell, a foretaste of the bread to come out of it?

Dick, honestly - I can't trust you on that one. I think you are doing
rye somewhere in secret and just can't openly admit to it. Puritanism
did a lot to this country. No, you don't have to do it in secret, it's
perfectly ok to enjoy the sensual experience of a rye starter - even in
your age.

and is very difficult to remove from one's
fingers, and from surfaces.

You deserve that, don't pretend you did not know.

Making rye bread from unadulterated rye flour is practically impossible.

Yes - and a starter does not get sour either - I know that number by
now. You have proven that several times.

It
seems that Samartha is able to do it, but little solace may be taken from that
since his particular devotion to rye bread surpasses all bounds.

You just keep making your sissy bread and keep thinking that it's unhealthy.

Of course that is no reason for the newbies not to try it.

I was actually hoping Mike would make 100 % FG rye but - dang! He was
smart enough - or not; so, I am waiting for the next one;-)

Well, it's actually really easy but, let's just continue pretending, ok?


S.

Mike Romain wrote:

Made up Rubin sandwiches with some of it and a home smoked corned beef.
Mmmm....

http://www.imagestation.com/3118614/3907878301

Looks pleasant enough.... but know that 'smoked corned beef" is more
commonly referred to as pastrami--which also can be part of a Reuben
Sandwich.

B/

Samartha Deva wrote:
Dick Adams wrote:

Rye sours can smell extremely bad. Rye sourdough is no for
tender-nosed persons.

I know, this NG has been kind of slow lately, so let's talk about
starter smells instead of flour smells.

The rye starter I made was 100% dark rye flour with a pinch of dried
wheat flour starter to get things going.

The rye flour smelled like fresh cut wood when it first got wet which is
a good thing I believe seeing the results I got.

As it was growing. it was very aromatic in a good 'starter smell' way.
Everyone that came into the house commented on the fresh bread making
smells that weekend. Mm mm was the usually comment.



To make a starter smell bad, just let it get rotten.

I managed to do that to one starter I forgot about after the first feed.
It didn't have time to sour so went green and gray... and into the trash.


Rye dough can look quite ugly,

To find something "ugly" is a cultural issue and can depend very much
what you smoke. snip

The dough does look a bit lumpy, but....

http://www.imagestation.com/3118614/3907712561

The beauty of a gently round bulging FG rye starter with the seductive
fruity ripe smell, a foretaste of the bread to come out of it?

I think so. Here is my rye starter after an 8 hour overnight feed:
http://www.imagestation.com/3118614/3907712640

I got a really good rise there, then I stirred it down and added 1/2 cup
rye and 1/4 cup water for one last feed as a straight rye starter.

http://www.imagestation.com/3118614/3907712561
And the finished loaf:

http://www.imagestation.com/3118614/3908775124


and is very difficult to remove from one's
fingers, and from surfaces.

You deserve that, don't pretend you did not know.

LOL!


Making rye bread from unadulterated rye flour is practically impossible.

Yes - and a starter does not get sour either - I know that number by
now. You have proven that several times.

It
seems that Samartha is able to do it, but little solace may be taken
from that
since his particular devotion to rye bread surpasses all bounds.

You just keep making your sissy bread and keep thinking that it's
unhealthy.

Of course that is no reason for the newbies not to try it.

I was actually hoping Mike would make 100 % FG rye but - dang! He was
smart enough - or not; so, I am waiting for the next one;-)

Well, it's actually really easy but, let's just continue pretending, ok?


I wanted a bit lighter rye for my first try seeing as so many people
seem to have difficulty with a dark rye bread and 60/40 rye to flour
seemed like a good place to start.

I have been asked to make a really dark loaf and a lighter loaf so more
experiments are coming up. :-)

Mike

Brian Mailman wrote:
Mike Romain wrote:

Made up Rubin sandwiches with some of it and a home smoked corned
beef. Mmmm....

http://www.imagestation.com/3118614/3907878301

Looks pleasant enough.... but know that 'smoked corned beef" is more
commonly referred to as pastrami--which also can be part of a Reuben
Sandwich.

B/

I do make a pastrami or 'Montreal' smoked (corned) beef, but I deep
smoke that first for about 12 hours after the corning process then I
cool it, slice it paper thin and steam it for an hour or so before serving.

This was just a simmered in the bag 'Maple Leaf' brand corned beef
brisket that got a couple hours of hickory and mesquite smoke after
cooking. 'instant' pastrami maybe? ;-)

'Almost' the same thing, but not quite. Still very good.

Mike