I have read the posts that say that an SD bread that doesn't brown may
have been over proofed or something to that effect...all the sugar
consumed by the beasties or some such. I am not convinced that is my
problem. If I bake it too long I tend to get scorching instead of
browning.

I have been trying to get better browning by adding malt...rye or
barley malt I've either made from roasted rye or bought at a Beer and
Wine making supply store. It hasn't really helped much. My oven is a
Dacor electric with convection capability. My husband suggested not
using the convection; I still need to try that. I have been put a
little pitcher of water in the oven for moisture.

I have used my Le Crueset pot that I bought around the time that NYC
no-knead bread recipe made the rounds, for my regular SD recipe. I
leave the cover on for about 20 mins then take it off for the rest of
the baking. The bread browns beautifully. Why? Because the moisture
is locked in the pot when the cover is on? How can I replicate that
without the pot.

Is it because I've been using the convection feature? Or, maybe I
should use the higher heat I used when using the pot...505 to 515
degree?

Any hints or suggestions?

Hmmm....

My bread recipes call for a tablespoon of sugar per loaf.

I use a conventional oven on 375 and never have browning issues except
for 'over' browning. It will turn fast near the end.

I only put a pan of boiling water in the bottom when I want crusty bread
and up the temp to 400.

Mike

Trix wrote:
I have read the posts that say that an SD bread that doesn't brown may
have been over proofed or something to that effect...all the sugar
consumed by the beasties or some such. I am not convinced that is my
problem. If I bake it too long I tend to get scorching instead of
browning.

I have been trying to get better browning by adding malt...rye or
barley malt I've either made from roasted rye or bought at a Beer and
Wine making supply store. It hasn't really helped much. My oven is a
Dacor electric with convection capability. My husband suggested not
using the convection; I still need to try that. I have been put a
little pitcher of water in the oven for moisture.

I have used my Le Crueset pot that I bought around the time that NYC
no-knead bread recipe made the rounds, for my regular SD recipe. I
leave the cover on for about 20 mins then take it off for the rest of
the baking. The bread browns beautifully. Why? Because the moisture
is locked in the pot when the cover is on? How can I replicate that
without the pot.

Is it because I've been using the convection feature? Or, maybe I
should use the higher heat I used when using the pot...505 to 515
degree?

Any hints or suggestions?

On Jun 5, 10:56 am, Trix wrote:


Is it because I've been using the convection feature? Or, maybe I
should use the higher heat I used when using the pot...505 to 515
degree?

Any hints or suggestions?

Ed Replies.
I think that bread baked without plentiful steam and without some malt
in the flour turns out gray and unattractive.
I found an old link where I baked two loaves, one w/out steam, and one
in a cloche that was spritzed with water (steam is captured in the
cloche). The loaf without steam looks just awful (or more awful).

http://mysite.verizon.net/res7gfb9/S...amNoSteam.html

Included are pictures of sourdough loaves baked my normal way, on a
500F stone with a super-heated Martha Stuart cast iron pan beneath the
stone then filled with 1/2 cup boiling water just as the door is being
closed.

So, my advice: WheatMontana Premium White flour, Preheated 500F baking
stone, Preheated 700F cast iron skillet, and 1/2 cup boiling water.

Ed Bechtel

Mike Romain wrote:
Hmmm....

" My bread recipes call for a tablespoon of sugar per loaf."

I don't add sugar to my regular SD bread.

I have achieved a pleasant sour flavor which I like but I am also able
to make it not very sour. I started out following Dicky's billowy
loaves recipe but now I am a bit looser with it. I use my home made
mostly rye starter. It works great. I get fine oven spring. I've
been using a bit more hydration than I used to. I usually make pizza
then make a loaf or two from the dough that is left baking it later.
I use a 555 degree oven temp for the pizza. That is the highest
baking temp my oven can be set at before the broil mode.

I may try using another vessel for the water instead of my little
stainless steel steam milk pitcher. Maybe my oven isn't airtight
enough for the convection disperses the moisture too much.

Maybe I'll try the cast iron pan and up the heat from 425-450 to 500
or a little more.

And Ed, without baking in the pot my bread tends to look more like
your lighter grayer loaves.

Trix wrote:
Mike Romain wrote:
Hmmm....

" My bread recipes call for a tablespoon of sugar per loaf."

I don't add sugar to my regular SD bread.

I have achieved a pleasant sour flavor which I like but I am also able
to make it not very sour. I started out following Dicky's billowy
loaves recipe but now I am a bit looser with it. I use my home made
mostly rye starter. It works great. I get fine oven spring. I've
been using a bit more hydration than I used to. I usually make pizza
then make a loaf or two from the dough that is left baking it later.
I use a 555 degree oven temp for the pizza. That is the highest
baking temp my oven can be set at before the broil mode.

I may try using another vessel for the water instead of my little
stainless steel steam milk pitcher. Maybe my oven isn't airtight
enough for the convection disperses the moisture too much.

Maybe I'll try the cast iron pan and up the heat from 425-450 to 500
or a little more.

And Ed, without baking in the pot my bread tends to look more like
your lighter grayer loaves.


I was under the impression any sugar left from the rise was for
browning. My bread is plenty sour.

'Gray' loaves sounds scary. We must be making totally different kinds
of bread. Mine turns out nut brown using unbleached flour.

http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=4292126015

I use an open pizza pan or cookie sheet and these were 40 minutes in a
preheated 375 oven.

Made pizza yesterday. Pepperoni, Italian ham, salami, bacon, onions,
shitake mushrooms, sauce, cheese and anchovies. 400 for 25 minutes and
no sugar in that recipe made nice brown, bottom crispy crust. It is in
this album:

http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=4292126015

Also in that album are some sourdough French sticks I made a couple days
ago. They were on the top rack in the middle of the oven with a pan of
boiling water on the bottom at 400 for 15 min, then 350 for another half
hour. Nice and brown also. They did call for 1 tbsp of sugar for the
three loaves though. They were almost too good. :-)

Twice recently I have managed to have 'almost' 'too brown' of sourdough.
Both of these were using directions to start the bread in a cold oven
turning it on to 375 and leaving the bread for 45 minutes. I thought
they were too done, but the 'kids' (in their 20's) cleaned them up that
night so...

Mike

"Mike Romain" wrote in message
g.com...

My bread recipes call for a tablespoon of sugar per loaf.

What about all the bread recipes that call for no sugar? Will they
produce loaves which get brown in the oven, or not?

I only put a pan of boiling water in the bottom when I want crusty bread
and up the temp to 400.

There is something I need to find out about. In what way does placing boiling
water underneath make bread crusty?

I use a conventional oven on 375 and never have browning issues except
for 'over' browning. It will turn fast near the end.

My oven is conventional, I think, but it never turns, even slowly. There used
to be a motorized barbecue spit, but it rusted out decades ago.

--
Dicky

What about all the bread recipes that call for no sugar? Will they
produce loaves which get brown in the oven, or not?

The starches in nearly every type of flour are fine for browning, but
additional sugar (or fat, for that matter) will help the browning
process...


There is something I need to find out about. In what way does placing boiling
water underneath make bread crusty?

I don't have it at my fingertips and my science is spotty, so I might
murder this whole description and make the process unrecognizable, but
I believe there's a process by which the steam raises the surface
temperature of the loaf above the actual ambient temperature of the
oven or the surface temperature of the stone or pan. I wish I knew its
name. Jeff, I think.

wrote:
What about all the bread recipes that call for no sugar? Will they
produce loaves which get brown in the oven, or not?

The starches in nearly every type of flour are fine for browning, but
additional sugar (or fat, for that matter) will help the browning
process...

and violate the sourdough bread pureness principle: flour, water salt,
culture - maybe spices.

Sugar and fat goes in cake!

Who wants fat in his/her bread? BLAUGHHH! - as Calvin would express it.

Samartha

Dick Adams wrote:
"Mike Romain" wrote in message
g.com...

My bread recipes call for a tablespoon of sugar per loaf.

What about all the bread recipes that call for no sugar? Will they
produce loaves which get brown in the oven, or not?

I don't know, I haven't tried any. As mentioned, the recipes I have
call for a little sugar.

I am still a rookie so I follow recipes mostly.....

I 'did' mention that my pizza crust with 'no' sugar got nice and brown,
but you cut that part out for some strange reason which really makes me
wonder if I should bother replying to a cut and paste fake...

Here is the photo you cut out:
http://www.imagestation.com/3118614/3911929275

Are you the resident troll? If so good to meet ya, I like messing up
trolls.


I only put a pan of boiling water in the bottom when I want crusty bread
and up the temp to 400.

There is something I need to find out about. In what way does placing boiling
water underneath make bread crusty?

I don't really know. The 'Joy of Cooking's' recipe for hard rolls on
page 616 calls for that and it works so I don't argue. It makes the
crust thicker apparently which seems easier to brown to me.

They also call for a brush with egg or milk at the end of the baking to
brown bread more in their section on Bread Crusts on page 602.

If you want it thicker they say brush the bread when partially baked
with salted water along with the pan of water under it.

I also find if I cook a pizza or bread or rolls on a dark pan vs a
stainless pan, the dark pan will produce a far darker crust than the
shiny pan.


I use a conventional oven on 375 and never have browning issues except
for 'over' browning. It will turn fast near the end.

My oven is conventional, I think, but it never turns, even slowly. There used
to be a motorized barbecue spit, but it rusted out decades ago.

Un hunh... sure....

Ok, I will type it slowly this time using the Canadian word Colour.
When cooking something it normally browns near the end of it's cooking
time and starts to 'turn' colour. I find some bread can 'turn' colour
really fast at the end.

Better?

Mike

Samartha Deva wrote:
wrote:
What about all the bread recipes that call for no sugar? Will they
produce loaves which get brown in the oven, or not?

The starches in nearly every type of flour are fine for browning, but
additional sugar (or fat, for that matter) will help the browning
process...

and violate the sourdough bread pureness principle: flour, water salt,
culture - maybe spices.

Sugar and fat goes in cake!

Who wants fat in his/her bread? BLAUGHHH! - as Calvin would express it.

Samartha



I have a totally different outlook on it I guess, me still being a bread
baking rookie.

One of my main recipe books, the Joy of Cooking, simply says I can
substitute a cup of sourdough starter to replace a yeast cake and it's
activation water in any recipe so I do....

Never really thought about 'really' roughing it with no additives to
help with the texture or colour or taste.

I am a bread baking rookie still so will have to 'play' around with more
recipes.

I want to try rye next, just can't find any rye flour!

Mike

"Mike Romain" wrote in message
g.com...

[ ... ]

Are you the resident troll?

I used to be, but Samartha has been doing a real good
job of late.

... Ok, I will type it slowly this time using the Canadian
word Colour ...

Seems you cannot resist acting Strangely.

... wonder if I should bother replying to a cut and paste fake.

Looks like cutting and pasting can get a person in trouble
where you come from. Trimming irrelevant text is considered
good here, as is focusing replies by including some text from
the subject post. Deletions can be indicated by ellipses
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellipsis but that is considered to
be a more advanced subject.

--
Dicky

Dick Adams wrote:
"Mike Romain" wrote in message
g.com...
Trimming irrelevant text is considered
good here, as is focusing replies by including some text from
the subject post.
--
Dicky


Ahh, ok.

I just find it really strange someone would ask me about browning bread
without sugar and cut out the part where I showed a photo and talked
about browning bread without sugar.

Maybe you cut and pasted the 'wrong' part?

Or maybe you should just leave the whole post in there so you don't
confuse yourself?

Mike

"Mike Romain" wrote in message ng.com...

I just find it really strange someone would ask me about browning bread
without sugar and cut out the part where I showed a photo ...

It was pizza, I think. The anchovies and tomato sauce indeed were quite
brown.

Or maybe you should just leave the whole post in there so you don't
confuse yourself?

Yes, I am easily confused. Lots of folks leave in whole threads so I can
get some approximate idea of what is going on without even trying to
Google anything.

Keep up the good work. I like your lettuce.

--
Dicky

On 7 Jun, 15:18, Mike Romain wrote:

I want to try rye next, just can't find any rye flour!

Mike

I think Dickey's got enough to go round. Or is that wry? Anyway it's
usually appreciated with thyme, oh, my spelling.

Jim

On 7 Jun, 15:09, Mike Romain wrote:
... Un hunh... sure....

Ok, I will type it slowly this time using the Canadian word Colour.
....
Mike


Canadian? Don't you mean English?
I don't remember having any Canadian lessons at school.


Don't lose your sense of humour Mike. It's good to be kept on your
toes and think about what you're writing. Okay some are of the school
that it's all just about having a nice chat but personally I'd prefer
to learn about bread. You can do both? Yeah, you can but I find you
learn more when you find out first who the ones are that know most and
don't give them a hard time. Otherwise you just get the same old crap
raked out time after time.

Jim