"Felix Karpfen" wrote in message news
Hard science dictates to use a temperature of 110°C+ to get the Maillard
reaction off the ground. From the humperdickel photos, it looks to me as
though the crockpot temperature was too low for the Maillard reaction to
do its stuff.

Have another look at the humperdickel photos:
http://www.prettycolors.com/bread_culture/humperdickel/

The following quote is relevant:

| When the temperature rises above 110-120 °C, proteins and amino acids
| start to react with sugars present. This reaction is known as the Maillard
| reaction, named after the French chemist Louis-Camille Maillard.

It is not likely that the internal temperature of a bread loaf could rise above
the boiling point of water while the dough remains moist.

Sugar browning, carmelization, occurs when the temperature of a sugar
solution rises above the boiling point of water, as water boils off and the
concentration of sugar therefore rises. Long ago high school students
were taught about how a solute can modify the boiling point of a solvent.

Under some conditions, I suppose, carmelization might confer to the
browning of bread crust. But it should be clear, case humperdickel, that
whatever browning process occurred at or below the temperature of the
water in the crock pot.

--
Dicky

On May 16, 3:44 pm, Felix Karpfen wrote:

Hard science dictates to use a temperature of 110°C+ to get the Maillard
reaction off the ground. From the humperdickel photos, it looks to me as
though the crockpot temperature was too low for the Maillard reaction to
do its stuff.

That is very interesting.

The crock pot setting I used was high... so the water was simmering.
And, of course, it always simmers nicely in my big tabletop unit which
can go much higher.

I think Dicky has a point with his response though. My pumpernickel
(given that simmering water is not 110 C.) is as dark and flavor-rich
as one would want. It's certainly as dark as the examples I've seen
exported from Germany.

So I'd still give the crock pot a trial. My experience has been
good.

On 17 May 2007 07:10:22 -0700, Will
wrote:

On May 16, 3:44 pm, Felix Karpfen wrote:

Hard science dictates to use a temperature of 110°C+ to get the Maillard
reaction off the ground. From the humperdickel photos, it looks to me as
though the crockpot temperature was too low for the Maillard reaction to
do its stuff.

That is very interesting.

The crock pot setting I used was high... so the water was simmering.
And, of course, it always simmers nicely in my big tabletop unit which
can go much higher.

I think Dicky has a point with his response though. My pumpernickel
(given that simmering water is not 110 C.) is as dark and flavor-rich
as one would want. It's certainly as dark as the examples I've seen
exported from Germany.

So I'd still give the crock pot a trial. My experience has been
good.

Hey Will,

My experiences have been as you describe (at a temp somewhat
lower than 110C) but I do wonder...

I do know that my pumpernickel is extremely dark brown, with
a very complex sweet taste. Something is producing all those
sugars, but Felix may be correct that it is a process other
than Maillard. No chemist I, so I ask, are there other
possibilities?

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On May 17, 10:27 am, Kenneth
wrote:

My experiences have been as you describe (at a temp somewhat
lower than 110C) but I do wonder...

I do know that my pumpernickel is extremely dark brown, with
a very complex sweet taste. Something is producing all those
sugars, but Felix may be correct that it is a process other
than Maillard. No chemist I, so I ask, are there other
possibilities?

I think the darkness quality has a bit to do with amylase. Rye is full
of it and the enzyme continues to react with starches until 150-155 F.
So a long, low heat, bake cycle would play right into this...
converting a lot of sugars. My pumpernickel, and I'm sure your's as
well, smells really fruity during the bake... almost like apple pie.

On Wed, 16 May 2007 22:09:18 +0000, Dick Adams wrote
):


"Felix Karpfen" wrote in message
news
Hard science dictates to use a temperature of 110°C+ to get the
Maillard reaction off the ground. From the humperdickel photos, it
looks to me as though the crockpot temperature was too low for the
Maillard reaction to do its stuff.

Have another look at the humperdickel photos:
http://www.prettycolors.com/bread_culture/humperdickel/

I did look and noted that the second attempt gave a lighter colour and was
found to be easier to slice.

It is not likely that the internal temperature of a bread loaf could
rise above the boiling point of water while the dough remains moist.

SNIP

Long ago high school students were taught about how a solute can modify
the boiling point of a solvent.

I believe solutes raise the temperature of the boiling point.

Which might mean that the temperature inside a loaf of Pumpernickel could
be somewhat greater than 100 deg. C by the end of the bake.

However, according to Flanders & Swan (UK presenters of witty songs; c.
1960s), the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics states that:

"Heat don't flow from the colda to the hotta;
you might think it does, but you'd much betta notta."


case humperdickel, that whatever browning process occurred at or below
the temperature of the water in the crock pot.

It is possible that the browning process - which takes seconds at 220
deg.C (the temperature of my coffee beans at the end of their roast) -
takes 16+ hours at temperatures near that of boiling water.

Forgetting about Rocket-Science, these postings suggest that I will be
pushing the cart uphill if I try to bake an edible loaf of bread that
has an internal temperature significantly greater than 100 deg.C by the
end of the bake.

Thank you (and the other respondents who were good enough to share their
experiences) for the posted advice.

Felix

--
Felix Karpfen
Public Key 72FDF9DF (DH/DSA)