I read most sourdough recipes almost in shock from all the buzzwords.
I realize that perhaps most folks around here are used to those
buzzwords and enjoy using them, BUT ...
Does anyone have a simple recipe for a large round loaf of sourdough
that doesn't use all the buzzwords? (hydration, biga, sponge, etc.)
I'd like to see something along the lines:
X c starter
Y c (gms / ounces) flour
Z c (gms / ounces) water
Do something. Let ferment until ...
Return X c starter
Add this and that to the remainder
Use paddle or dough hook until ...
Let rise until ...
Punch down (or not) and form ...
Let rise until ...
Bake at ... until ...
I'll probably get to the buzzword stage, but right now I'd just like
to get an acceptable loaf (probably not the optimum loaf) out of the
oven.
Thanks.

On May 10, 11:08 pm, Richard L Walker wrote:
I read most sourdough recipes almost in shock from all the buzzwords.
I realize that perhaps most folks around here are used to those
buzzwords and enjoy using them, BUT ...
Does anyone have a simple recipe for a large round loaf of sourdough
that doesn't use all the buzzwords? (hydration, biga, sponge, etc.)


Ed replies...
You will probably get a lot of replies. Best make room in your
newsreader for the onslaught.

It might be more simple if you understood some of the buzz words:

Hydrate: That is the act of taking in vodka or beer while finding
your paddle
Proof: That is the amount of alcohol in the vodka. I have found a 100
proof brand that is most tasty.
Sponge: What is used to clean up the mess after too many vodkas
Ferment: well, you get the idea.

There was a very simple recipe in the Sourdough FAQ's posted by
someone called Lumpy Biscuits or Grumpy Muffins.
He uses a bowl, a counter top and a dish sponge. I misremember that he
uses cups for measurement. It doesn't get more simple than that
recipe. Good luck.

Ed Bechtel

I've found the information, and recipes, on these web sites to be very
helpful with no BS (I don't call that a buzzword). Both sites suggest
simple methods and there are even demonstration videos so you can
actually see the processes that are involved.

http://www.sourdoughhome.com/
http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Br...ough/index.htm



On Fri, 11 May 2007 01:08:21 -0500, Richard L Walker
wrote:

I read most sourdough recipes almost in shock from all the buzzwords.
I realize that perhaps most folks around here are used to those
buzzwords and enjoy using them, BUT ...
Does anyone have a simple recipe for a large round loaf of sourdough
that doesn't use all the buzzwords? (hydration, biga, sponge, etc.)
I'd like to see something along the lines:
X c starter
Y c (gms / ounces) flour
Z c (gms / ounces) water
Do something. Let ferment until ...
Return X c starter
Add this and that to the remainder
Use paddle or dough hook until ...
Let rise until ...
Punch down (or not) and form ...
Let rise until ...
Bake at ... until ...
I'll probably get to the buzzword stage, but right now I'd just like
to get an acceptable loaf (probably not the optimum loaf) out of the
oven.
Thanks.

"Ed" wrote in message oups.com...

There was a very simple recipe in the Sourdough FAQ's posted by
someone called Lumpy Biscuits or Grumpy Muffins.
He uses a bowl, a counter top and a dish sponge. I misremember that he
uses cups for measurement. It doesn't get more simple than that
recipe.

LumpyMuffins

Its good for starter management, too.

http://lumpymuffins.home.comcast.net...h/NoWaste.html

Thanks for all the info. Someone even sent a copy of the mentioned
article and I'll give it a whirl.

Hello Richard;

Welcome to the group!

"Richard L Walker" wrote in message
...
I read most sourdough recipes almost in shock from all the buzzwords.
I realize that perhaps most folks around here are used to those
buzzwords and enjoy using them, BUT ...
Yep! BTDT. Many of those posting here get off on using terms, equipment,
and methods not intended to allow newbie's easy assimilation. Just for the
record, they almost assuredly don't do it to be difficult or obtuse, it's
just that by being in this hobby they tend to self-immerse and lose touch
with those that are just starting. Trust me, a great deal of
"weenie-wagging" goes on here...(:-o)!

Does anyone have a simple recipe for a large round loaf of sourdough
that doesn't use all the buzzwords? (hydration, biga, sponge, etc.)

I do my best to demystify the process and either avoid or carefully explain
any buzzwords--although I'm quite sure that not all reading here will
concur...(:-o)!

Try this recipe: http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Br...dough/SBSB.htm

It's about as simple and straightforward as I can make 'em. It'll walk you
through how to make a small, simple, plain SD loaf. If it suits you, you
can go back one level and find a few more recipes as well.

I'd like to see something along the lines:
X c starter
Y c (gms / ounces) flour
Z c (gms / ounces) water
Do something. Let ferment until ...
Return X c starter
Add this and that to the remainder
Use paddle or dough hook until ...
Let rise until ...
Punch down (or not) and form ...
Let rise until ...
Bake at ... until ...
I'll probably get to the buzzword stage, but right now I'd just like
to get an acceptable loaf (probably not the optimum loaf) out of the
oven.

I'm sure that others posting here will give you recipes as well. Most of
the folks posting here are pretty good and you should have little trouble
with their recipes.

And *YES* I schlep my starter with me, and it seems to work just fine
everyplace I've taken it...

Even in these primitive conditions, sans fancy equipment of any kind, I make
*GREAT* bread! (:-{})! Today's project--between events at the air-races, a
rye loaf: http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Br...h/RyeBread.htm
you can see it he http://www.innerlodge.com/pix/Bread/index.htm#JRloaf

Thanks.
You are, of course, most welcome...


HTH,
Dusty -- still on the road...currently west of Bluff, in southeastern
Utah...

Dusty da baker wrote:
[..]
what's wrong with that one:

http://www.innerlodge.com/pix/Bread/DSC02170B.JPG

?

from what's visible, it has a decent crumb and a very interesting crust.

It's a bit pale and nothing can be said about the taste from a picture -
looks overfermented and definitely "non-standard", one-of-a-kind and
sure won't get you a price.

IMO - non-rising (this one goes somewhat in this direction) rye doughs
can be made into crispy flat bread, punctured with a fork and sprinkled
with caraway (that's simplified, there is much more to spices on those
breads).

Vinschgauer flatbread comes to mind.

Alpine villages in South-Tirol (I know of area Kastelruth/Seis) were
baking once a year, dried the flatbreads and used them during summer.
Dry mountain air and dough-acidity made it possible.

Those flatlings can last forever if not eaten.

Samartha

Perfect. Thank you so much.

On Sat, 12 May 2007 07:55:59 -0700, "Dusty da baker"
wrote:

Try this recipe: http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Br...dough/SBSB.htm

Today's project--between events at the air-races, a
rye loaf: http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Br...h/RyeBread.htm
you can see it he http://www.innerlodge.com/pix/Bread/index.htm#JRloaf

G'day Samartha & all;

"Samartha Deva" wrote in message
news:mailman.116.1178985417.1438.rec.food.sourdoug ...
Dusty da baker wrote:
[..]
what's wrong with that one:

http://www.innerlodge.com/pix/Bread/DSC02170B.JPG

?

from what's visible, it has a decent crumb and a very interesting crust.
Yep.

It's a bit pale and nothing can be said about the taste from a picture -
Yep. Also true. It could'a used a few extra degrees...or some more time.
But, the taste? Absolutely scrumptious! And I have many dozen "outside
experts" tell me the same thing.

looks overfermented and definitely "non-standard", one-of-a-kind and
Over-fermented? How so? Please 'splain that one to me...

"One-of-a-kind"? What other kind of bread would a non-commercial baker,
making 1-loaf for hisself, make?

"Non-standard"? To what "standard"? There's a published standard to what a
loaf of Jewish Rye Bread should be like?

sure won't get you a price.
"Won't get [me] a price?" I don't get it. What "price" was I looking for?
It tasted great, and made a wonderful, near-perfect Rueben. What more could
I ask? Am I missing something?

IMO - non-rising (this one goes somewhat in this direction) rye doughs can
be made into crispy flat bread, punctured with a fork and sprinkled with
caraway (that's simplified, there is much more to spices on those breads).
True enough. And my usually trusty times & procedures succumbed to the 92F
day--and me takin' too long to enjoy a museum today--we had today. I ended
up with nearly what you described. It got wa-a-a-a-ay over-proofed! Wasn't
quite a cracker...at about an inch thick, it didn't crunch all the way
through...(:-o)! Still. We were hungry, and it tasted great warm, with
some hard sausage & dry cheese.

Vinschgauer flatbread comes to mind.
Had it. Didn't like it. I shouldn't say "I didn't like it", more like it
was not much different than your garden variety "knack-brot". And while
they're okay, they're not what I'd order if it was up to me...

Alpine villages in South-Tirol (I know of area Kastelruth/Seis) were
baking once a year, dried the flatbreads and used them during summer. Dry
mountain air and dough-acidity made it possible.
Seems that I heard of that--but can't recollect that I had any.

Although we usually stay to the west of there in Castlerotto-Kastelruth im
Schlerngebiet. Probably just some marketing hype, but they claim they're on
the sunny side of 'der Dolomiten'. And my dear wifey likes it
better...(:-o)!

Those flatlings can last forever if not eaten.
Well, the one I made earlier today is already about half-gone. So,
"forever" seems to be closing in on me...(:-{})!


L8r all,
Dusty -- still on the road, west of Bluff, Ut., for the moment...gonna lick
my wounds and try again tomorrow...


Samartha

Dusty da baker wrote:
G'day Samartha & all;

"Samartha Deva" wrote in message
news:mailman.116.1178985417.1438.rec.food.sourdoug ...
Dusty da baker wrote:
[..]
what's wrong with that one:

http://www.innerlodge.com/pix/Bread/DSC02170B.JPG
[..]
It's a bit pale and nothing can be said about the taste from a picture -
Yep. Also true. It could'a used a few extra degrees...or some more time.

Well, that paleness, when I get it is coming from being "overfermented"
meaning that the sugar got eaten by the little one's and nothing is left
for browning - one aspect of "overfermenting".

But, the taste? Absolutely scrumptious! And I have many dozen "outside
experts" tell me the same thing.

looks overfermented and definitely "non-standard", one-of-a-kind and
Over-fermented? How so? Please 'splain that one to me...

Please see above the lack of sugar aspect. The other criterion I see is
the jagged loaf surface - may be caused by deterioration of structure
and therefore falling apart or may be not, hard to tell in this case.

The third aspect of overfermentation here can be the relative flatness
of the loaf. Can be a cause.

"One-of-a-kind"? What other kind of bread would a non-commercial baker,
making 1-loaf for hisself, make?

I can get mine out looking very similar, so it can be somewhat
duplicated - not-one-of-a-kind. Then there is the pan bread variety.
Bakeries crank loafs out all looking very alike - not-one-of-a-kind.

"Non-standard"? To what "standard"? There's a published standard to what a
loaf of Jewish Rye Bread should be like?

Sure there are standard loafs IMO - apart from weight, there are
standard bread shapes - plenty (too much to get into) oval, round, long;
types - batards, baguetts, ciabattas - coming out of bakeries by the
thousands. Your's is not falling in any of those categories, therefore
non-standard.

Standard ::= "regularly and widely used"

sure won't get you a price.
"Won't get [me] a price?" I don't get it. What "price" was I looking for?

Baker contest ;-)
Is that not right - win a price in a competition? Something is not
"excellent" and therefore won't get you a price. Not a common Amispeak
phrase?

It tasted great, and made a wonderful, near-perfect Rueben. What more could
I ask? Am I missing something?

Not sure, I don't understand why you labeled it as "something to avoid"
- down those lines:

"A study in how NOT to build a sourdough loaf!"

That's why I posted. What's bad about this loaf and NOT to do?

Unless one wants to do "standard" loafs?


Samartha

Samartha Deva wrote:
sure won't get you a price.

"Won't get [me] a price?" I don't get it. What "price" was I looking for?


Baker contest ;-)
Is that not right - win a price in a competition? Something is not
"excellent" and therefore won't get you a price. Not a common Amispeak
phrase?


I think the word you are looking for is "prize." A prize is an award
given for winning a contest.

A price is the amount that is charged for goods and services in commerce.

Mike

Dusty da baker wrote:

[..]

what's wrong with that one:

http://www.innerlodge.com/pix/Bread/DSC02170B.JPG

It is a very good approximation of a meadow loaf.

Try some lawn biscuits and see how they come out.

--
Dicky

Oh! *NOW* I got it!

I'd posted that link to show the results of my Jewish Rye Loaf, and you were
commenting on my flubbed loaf!

Sorry 'bout that, Samartha, I thought your comments were about the Jewish
Rye loaf I was writing about...(:-{})!

And yeah, the "... how NOT to build ..." loaf wuz a mess! Another instance
of being out in the desert...getting used to the climate...and then finding
out that my "critters" weren't...(:-o)! Fortunately the next one came out
okay.

Yesterday, my Rye loaf went the same way as the bad loaf on that page.
Still-and-all, it tasted pretty good with sausage & cheese...


L8r all,
Dusty -- who's got 5-miles to hike & a couple of cliffs to scale to get to
some more fantastic Puebloan ruins & petroglyphs today...


"Samartha Deva" wrote in message
news:mailman.121.1179037263.1438.rec.food.sourdoug ...
Dusty da baker wrote:
G'day Samartha & all;
....

Richard L Walker wrote:
I read most sourdough recipes almost in shock from all the buzzwords.
I realize that perhaps most folks around here are used to those
buzzwords and enjoy using them, BUT ...
Does anyone have a simple recipe for a large round loaf of sourdough
that doesn't use all the buzzwords? (hydration, biga, sponge, etc.)
I'd like to see something along the lines:
X c starter
Y c (gms / ounces) flour
Z c (gms / ounces) water
Do something. Let ferment until ...
Return X c starter
Add this and that to the remainder
Use paddle or dough hook until ...
Let rise until ...
Punch down (or not) and form ...
Let rise until ...
Bake at ... until ...
I'll probably get to the buzzword stage, but right now I'd just like
to get an acceptable loaf (probably not the optimum loaf) out of the
oven.
Thanks.

I am a sourdough rookie who recently made his own starter using 1 cup
unbleached flour and 1 cup warm water in a small crock pot. I fed it a
tablespoon of flour and 1 tablespoon warm water every couple days until
it foamed up and started to smell like fresh beer.

I find my starter needs three 1/2 cup feedings after I take it out of
the fridge to get lively, then I make bread, rolls, sticky buns, pizza
crust, etc.

I have been very lucky and only had one set of doorstops when I was
learning and didn't feed the starter enough just before using or let it
rise long/big enough.

I basically substitute the sourdough starter for the commercial yeast at
the rate of 1 cup for one packet.

The recipe I use now which makes about 3- 10"x5-6" tall loafs of light
sour bread and/or rolls with a real demand for more from those eating
them is:

In a bowl goes:

1 heaping cup of starter that has risen and fallen 3 times recently. I
start the afternoon before to take it out of the fridge, feed it, then
feed before bed, then feed first thing in the morning and make bread in
the early afternoon for supper.

Note: if the weather turned cold or wet and the starter is really slow
rising and I am running short of time, I will add 1 tsp of commercial
yeast to the mix. I have only done this twice after seeing the first
doorstops when the rise was too slow for the hours left in the day...

1 cup warm water

2 tbsp melted butter or lard

2 eggs

2 flat tbsp brown sugar

1 tsp salt

3 cups unbleached flour

I mix well with a wooden spoon, then add enough flour to make it pull
away from the sides and pour it out onto 2 cups or so of flour on the
counter. I add more as it gets used, normally 5 or 6 cups total
depending on the day.

I work the flour in by folding in half, turning a quarter turn and
folding again until I can kneed it. I try to keep it as sticky as I can
work with and kneed for about ten minutes until it firms up and becomes
almost not sticky. It 'pushes back' when ready.

I put this ball into a greased bowl, remove and turn over back into the
bowl, then cover with a towel to rise. I turn the oven on to 200 for
about a half hour to really warm it while I was making the bread, then
turn it off. The bowl goes in the oven with the door open until it
cools some then door closed. (it's cold spring time in Canada)

The rise time varies on the weather or moon or sunspots, who knows, but
it takes anywhere from 1 hour to 3 for it to at 'least' double in size.
It also starts to slow down filling the dent when I push a finger into
it when it gets ready.

I then punch it down and make my loaves or rolls. I put them on a
greased pan usually sprinkled with cornmeal.

I preheat the oven to 375 and pop them in. The buns are done in 20 to
30 minutes depending on how large I make them. The color and a hollow
tap tells.

The bread takes 30-40 minutes for a ten inch loaf, a bit longer for a
larger loaf.

I find the final rise is better if I score the tops of the loaves in a
crosshatch and put a slice down the bun centers. This seems to make
them rise more straight up than if the skin is left whole.

A photo of yesterday's leftovers is he

http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=4292126015

I have made it without the eggs, but prefer the lighter texture the eggs
seem to give.

Mike