"TG" wrote in message
oups.com...
On 22 Apr, 13:59, "no" wrote:

. I make beer, so am always careful about
temperature and yeast when there's a 5-gallon batch at stake. Beer yeast
is
particularly sensitive to temperature because it's bred for slow
fermentation. I also sometimes make beer bread using homebrew with live
yeast, just (unpasteurized) homebrew, flour, and salt. It's also a slow
rise process, producing decent flavor and texture and not sour at all.
It
would probably make better bread, but worse beer, without the hops.

Hi,
The first thing that I thought when I read your original post was 'is
some other brewer's / commercial yeast getting in to the starter?'

Is this a possibility? This is the first time I've read anyone
complain about the stability of Carl's starter. It reminds me of
complaints about starters made using commercial yeast.

Jim

I bake yeast bread and/or pizza once or twice a week using Fleischmann's
from a jar. That jar lives right next to my starter in the fridge. Both
have airtight lids, for what it's worth. I do make a point of not opening
my starter jar when I'm messing with commercial yeast, even if there's a
commercial yeast sponge brewing elsewhere in the kitchen. There's always a
chance that Fleischmann's has invaded the environment, though. I think I'll
move the sourdough operation to another room for a while. Thanks for the
tip.

Dave

no wrote:

I bake yeast bread and/or pizza once or twice a week using Fleischmann's
from a jar. That jar lives right next to my starter in the fridge. Both
have airtight lids, for what it's worth. I do make a point of not opening
my starter jar when I'm messing with commercial yeast, even if there's a
commercial yeast sponge brewing elsewhere in the kitchen. There's always a
chance that Fleischmann's has invaded the environment, though. I think I'll
move the sourdough operation to another room for a while. Thanks for the
tip.

Baker's Yeast (Fleischmann) doesn't stand a chance in a SD environment -
that's established. 3 days max and they are gone! The remains probably
eaten by LB's.

And - doubtful if the yeasts make spores - the one's from Fleischmann
don't need to - the continuation of their species is taken care of by
humans and that's going on for - ? maybe 3/4 of a century of continuous
human nursing at Fleischmann's - extreme yeast decadence. What do they
get to eat? Cornstarch or something like that.

If you have two kinds of sourdough in the same fridge, it's another story.

And - compare the SD's fed with full grain flours - they are still in
contact with nature and have to compete. Battle hardened warriors
snuffing the yeast wimps for pleasure.

It seems there is a multitude of LB's in a natural sourdough anyway and
just the one's liking the provided environment best, dominate at a given
time.

I would not worry at all with that yeast accomplishing anything on your
sourdoughs.

Samartha

Samartha Deva wrote:

Baker's Yeast (Fleischmann) doesn't stand a chance in a SD environment -
that's established. 3 days max and they are gone! The remains probably
eaten by LB's.

Michael Gaentzle says 2 feedings will take care of the invaders.
And - doubtful if the yeasts make spores - the one's from Fleischmann
don't need to - the continuation of their species is taken care of by
humans and that's going on for - ? maybe 3/4 of a century of continuous
human nursing at Fleischmann's - extreme yeast decadence. What do they
get to eat? Cornstarch or something like that.

Since about 1880 actually. Around 125 years. And, I think it's
molasses. Still not very good....

I would not worry at all with that yeast accomplishing anything on your
sourdoughs.

No argument there. Even if your starter is weak, when it revives, it
will kill off the bakers yeast.

Mike

It seems there is a multitude of LB's in a natural sourdough anyway and
just the one's liking the provided environment best, dominate at a given
time.

recent scientific literature, mostly from various Italian teams seems
to identify 5 different yeasts (and sometimes different versions of
same yeast) that can be dominant in a given SD cultures and 16
different Lacto Bacilli. But for LB particularly there seems to be
some additionally that current scientific methods can't cultivate and
therefore identify. But while a given SD culture may have a certain
dominant flora, it seems samples of other yeasts and LB can survive in
a culture alongside the dominant. Presumably a change in regime might
alter balance of power so to speak. I believe this doesn't mean
however that all SD cultures contain all 5 yeasts and all 16 LB.

for anyone themselves being or with customers being gluten intolerant
(celiac sprue) this paper may be of interest http://aem.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/70/2/1088

yours
andy f



I would not worry at all with that yeast accomplishing anything on your
sourdoughs.

Samartha

"Mike Avery" wrote in message
news:mailman.2.1177214051.89402.rec.food.sourdough @mail.otherwhen.com...
:
The starter paper you pointed to put a lot of emphasis on temperature. I
haven't found it to be very critical. Remember, historically speaking
effective temperature control is a relatively recent technology -
sourdough has been used since at least the time of the pharaohs. On that
scale, thermometers are recent introductions. And yet, sourdough worked.
Frequency of feeding is more critical.
:
Mike

Well, either my "temperature therapy" or just a few weeks of vigilant
feeding have brought it back to life and I've managed to create a few decent
loaves lately. Unfortunately, I've also made one brick and one over-proofed
monster that looked a lot like something from "Alien." So my question for
the veterans is: how do you schedule this type of baking? If everything
works just right, I can sponge overnight, start the first rise in the
morning, the second rise after work, and bake later that evening. As often
as not, though, (recalling the numerous times I've gotten serious about this
and then moved on to other things after some frustration) the first rise
gets ahead of itself and I come home to the guts-eaten-out Alien, or it's in
a slow mood and I end up putting it in the fridge to stall the process. So,
who has figured out a rhythm that gets dependable loaves every few days
throughout the week?

A few times a month over the past 10+ years I make pizza using good old
commercial yeast. The timing works out just about right if I knead in the
morning, put it in the fridge, get someone to take it out at around 4:00,
and it's good to punch and form by 6:00. I suspect that the fridge may be
the answer to weekday sourdough, but haven't figured out a schedule yet.

Dave