I read in the newspaper that an upscale restaurant will automatically tack
on a twenty percent tip on each customers bill. The article implied that
this would become a trend.

Tom

In article ,
"Tom or Mary" wrote:

I read in the newspaper that an upscale restaurant will automatically tack
on a twenty percent tip on each customers bill. The article implied that
this would become a trend.

I doubt it, at least not in the United States.

On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 17:09:54 -0400, "Tom or Mary" wrote:

I read in the newspaper that an upscale restaurant will automatically tack
on a twenty percent tip on each customers bill. The article implied that
this would become a trend.

Yeah, well, you can read almost anything in a newspaper if you look around
enough. What's your point? At least what country are you speaking of?

-- Larry

In Europe this is quite the practice to include a tip into the bill. I doubt
this will catch on in North America. I do it in my place for groups of 12 or
more...but they know that before hand.


"Tom or Mary" wrote in message
...
I read in the newspaper that an upscale restaurant will automatically tack
on a twenty percent tip on each customers bill. The article implied that
this would become a trend.

Tom

Gimme a Break wrote:

In Europe this is quite the practice to include a tip into the bill. I
doubt this will catch on in North America. I do it in my place for groups
of 12 or more...but they know that before hand.

What do you mean by "Europe"?

You know Europe...it contains countries like, Italy, Germany, England,
Spain, France, etc....you know Europe...pick up a globe or an Atlas and have
a read...you may learn something.


"Thomas Müller" wrote in message
...
Gimme a Break wrote:

In Europe this is quite the practice to include a tip into the bill. I
doubt this will catch on in North America. I do it in my place for
groups
of 12 or more...but they know that before hand.

What do you mean by "Europe"?

Gimme a Break topposts,

You know Europe...it contains countries like, Italy, Germany, England,
Spain, France, etc....you know Europe...pick up a globe or an Atlas and have
a read...you may learn something.

What do you mean by "Europe"?

I never recall having a tip automatically added on in the U.K.
You tip in restaurants similarly to the U.S., but not in pubs.
(Unless is a food-desintation pub.)

In Italy, they'd add a cover charge (fixed fee per table
or per person), and then a service charge (varies, but something
like 5%). I think this is more common in tourist areas.
The expectation is the diner will add on to bring the total tip
up into the 10% - 15% range.

I assume there are other European countries where the custom
is not to tip hardly at all.

Steve

Yes, i know europe, its all around me. And first, it doesnt make sense to
say "In Europe this is quite the practice..." since as you say, europe
consists of many different countries. And second, I've been to restaurants
in 8 different european countries and I never had a tip on the bill.

Thomas

You know Europe...it contains countries like, Italy, Germany, England,
Spain, France, etc....you know Europe...pick up a globe or an Atlas and
have a read...you may learn something.


"Thomas Müller" wrote in message
...
Gimme a Break wrote:

In Europe this is quite the practice to include a tip into the bill. I
doubt this will catch on in North America. I do it in my place for
groups
of 12 or more...but they know that before hand.

What do you mean by "Europe"?

Jesus, this is a prime example of why auto gratuity is put onto bills.
People have conflicting ideas and ever changing personalities. The only
thing that stays the same, is that there are service people who are trying
to make a living dealing with people like you. In my opinion, there should
be an auto gratuity everywhere. The old meaning of "gratuity" means "to
ensure great service". To, ENSURE great service; and it was primarily given
at the beginning of the meal. As a restaurant manager myself, one difficulty
I have is convincing my service people that more sales equals higher tips.
If there was guaranteed gratuity percentage based on sales, than that would
be good for the servers (more money), that would be good for my restaurant
(higher sales so they can make more money), and it would be good for the
guests (higher quality food through suggestive offers and an ENSURED good
service). I would ensure them because it would allow me the opportunity to
turn over any server who was not performing to the highest degree. I am sure
that it would be a prime work industry as well where people would want to
work; applications for people to replace the bad ones would be plentiful.

Any other Ideas you all may have; something a bit more inspiring than where
exactly Europe is?

Jesse

--


Primary:
Priority:
"Thomas Müller" wrote in message
...
Yes, i know europe, its all around me. And first, it doesnt make sense to
say "In Europe this is quite the practice..." since as you say, europe
consists of many different countries. And second, I've been to restaurants
in 8 different european countries and I never had a tip on the bill.

Thomas

You know Europe...it contains countries like, Italy, Germany, England,
Spain, France, etc....you know Europe...pick up a globe or an Atlas and
have a read...you may learn something.


"Thomas Müller" wrote in message
...
Gimme a Break wrote:

In Europe this is quite the practice to include a tip into the bill. I
doubt this will catch on in North America. I do it in my place for
groups
of 12 or more...but they know that before hand.

What do you mean by "Europe"?

Can you dine out with an average menu price of $17.00? If so, great, but can
the rest of the general public?

Lets break it down for you.

Its Friday night with a restaurant capacity of 200 people. You have 60
tables in your restaurant. You are currently on a wait. Lets assume that you
are allowing four tables per server; which requires 15 servers. You have
somewhere inside 20 to 25 tickets in the kitchen at any given moment, which
requires a minimum of 5 cooks, maybe more depending on how what your menu
is. You have one dish washer, one prep cook, three hosts and three managers
on duty (a kitchen manager, floor manager, and GM). Lets say you have an
average turn time of 45min/table. Here is your break down:

15 servers @ $2.13/hr = $31.95
5 cooks @ avrg. $9.00/hr = $45.00
Dish&Prep @ avrg. $8.00/hr = $16.00
3 hosts @ avrg. $3.00 (if tipped)
2 managers @ aprox. $13.46/hr (salaried $35,000,10hr days,5days/wk)
1 GM @ $19.23/hr (salaried $60,000,10hr days,6days/wk)
TOTAL LABOR PER HOUR = $134.64

Gross sales = aprox. $3,120 (80 tables in one hour, avrg. 3 guests, at avrg.
$13.00/person)
after labor = $2,985.36
after food cost = $2,080.56 (avrg. 29% of gross sales; allowing for waste)
after bar cost = $ 1,768.56 (avrg. 10% of gross sales)
after maintenance fees, building leases, electricity, depreciation,
contracted services, supplies, etc.

You see where I am going with this? Lets keep in mind that this is during
the peak hour. We are not taking into consideration the two hours before
this that all the employees where on the clock setting up for the volume at
minimal sales.

Bottom line, if we raise prices, people are less likely to eat out. It is a
mental thing. If they see prices within their budget, they will spend, in
theory, the same amount, more often. By raising prices and wages, the two
would in fact cancel themselves out. The difference being, less guests =
less profit for the restaurant = no restaurant = no job.

People have spent many years working the restaurant business, my philosophy,
if a multi-million dollar company is suggesting you act in a certain way,
listen to them, they are multi-million dollar companies for a reason. Which
is the same reason you have yet to see required tipping. We may debate about
it, but until it is a factual way to increase guest count and increase
profit, it will not happen.

Sincerely,
Jesse

--


Primary:
Priority:
"Alan Moorman" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 18:27:21 -0500, "Jesse Robinson"
wrote:

Jesus, this is a prime example of why auto gratuity is put onto bills.
People have conflicting ideas and ever changing personalities. The only
thing that stays the same, is that there are service people who are trying
to make a living dealing with people like you. In my opinion, there should
be an auto gratuity everywhere. The old meaning of "gratuity" means "to
ensure great service". To, ENSURE great service; and it was primarily
given
at the beginning of the meal. As a restaurant manager myself, one
difficulty
I have is convincing my service people that more sales equals higher tips.
If there was guaranteed gratuity percentage based on sales, than that
would
be good for the servers (more money), that would be good for my restaurant
(higher sales so they can make more money), and it would be good for the
guests (higher quality food through suggestive offers and an ENSURED good
service). I would ensure them because it would allow me the opportunity to
turn over any server who was not performing to the highest degree. I am
sure
that it would be a prime work industry as well where people would want to
work; applications for people to replace the bad ones would be plentiful.

Any other Ideas you all may have; something a bit more inspiring than
where
exactly Europe is?

Jesse


If you want an auto-gratuity added onto all bills, why not just pay the
wait staff well and raise the prices to accommodate.

Then, no confusion!

Sheesh!



Dirty Sam Bonney


Arrrrrrrrrrr!

Well said!

"Jesse Robinson" wrote in message
news:lbHZe.7263$P34.2192@okepread07...
Can you dine out with an average menu price of $17.00? If so, great, but
can the rest of the general public?

Lets break it down for you.

Its Friday night with a restaurant capacity of 200 people. You have 60
tables in your restaurant. You are currently on a wait. Lets assume that
you are allowing four tables per server; which requires 15 servers. You
have somewhere inside 20 to 25 tickets in the kitchen at any given moment,
which requires a minimum of 5 cooks, maybe more depending on how what your
menu is. You have one dish washer, one prep cook, three hosts and three
managers on duty (a kitchen manager, floor manager, and GM). Lets say you
have an average turn time of 45min/table. Here is your break down:

15 servers @ $2.13/hr = $31.95
5 cooks @ avrg. $9.00/hr = $45.00
Dish&Prep @ avrg. $8.00/hr = $16.00
3 hosts @ avrg. $3.00 (if tipped)
2 managers @ aprox. $13.46/hr (salaried $35,000,10hr days,5days/wk)
1 GM @ $19.23/hr (salaried $60,000,10hr days,6days/wk)
TOTAL LABOR PER HOUR = $134.64

Gross sales = aprox. $3,120 (80 tables in one hour, avrg. 3 guests, at
avrg. $13.00/person)
after labor = $2,985.36
after food cost = $2,080.56 (avrg. 29% of gross sales; allowing for waste)
after bar cost = $ 1,768.56 (avrg. 10% of gross sales)
after maintenance fees, building leases, electricity, depreciation,
contracted services, supplies, etc.

You see where I am going with this? Lets keep in mind that this is during
the peak hour. We are not taking into consideration the two hours before
this that all the employees where on the clock setting up for the volume
at minimal sales.

Bottom line, if we raise prices, people are less likely to eat out. It is
a mental thing. If they see prices within their budget, they will spend,
in theory, the same amount, more often. By raising prices and wages, the
two would in fact cancel themselves out. The difference being, less guests
= less profit for the restaurant = no restaurant = no job.

People have spent many years working the restaurant business, my
philosophy, if a multi-million dollar company is suggesting you act in a
certain way, listen to them, they are multi-million dollar companies for a
reason. Which is the same reason you have yet to see required tipping. We
may debate about it, but until it is a factual way to increase guest count
and increase profit, it will not happen.

Sincerely,
Jesse

--


Primary:
Priority:
"Alan Moorman" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 18:27:21 -0500, "Jesse Robinson"
wrote:

Jesus, this is a prime example of why auto gratuity is put onto bills.
People have conflicting ideas and ever changing personalities. The only
thing that stays the same, is that there are service people who are
trying
to make a living dealing with people like you. In my opinion, there
should
be an auto gratuity everywhere. The old meaning of "gratuity" means "to
ensure great service". To, ENSURE great service; and it was primarily
given
at the beginning of the meal. As a restaurant manager myself, one
difficulty
I have is convincing my service people that more sales equals higher
tips.
If there was guaranteed gratuity percentage based on sales, than that
would
be good for the servers (more money), that would be good for my
restaurant
(higher sales so they can make more money), and it would be good for the
guests (higher quality food through suggestive offers and an ENSURED good
service). I would ensure them because it would allow me the opportunity
to
turn over any server who was not performing to the highest degree. I am
sure
that it would be a prime work industry as well where people would want to
work; applications for people to replace the bad ones would be plentiful.

Any other Ideas you all may have; something a bit more inspiring than
where
exactly Europe is?

Jesse


If you want an auto-gratuity added onto all bills, why not just pay the
wait staff well and raise the prices to accommodate.

Then, no confusion!

Sheesh!



Dirty Sam Bonney


Arrrrrrrrrrr!

The current system misrepresents the true costs of a meal and service.
Servers are pressured by need and by restaurant management to
underreport their tips which makes them (and society!) miss out on
social security benefits, etc.

Steven Shaw of the New York Times does a good job of explaining why a
service charge makes sense and is more honest and fair. His idea is a
sort of halfway point between the current system and how most other
businesses run, which build in service, raw materials, etc. in their
total costs to the customer. Why the restaurant business is so
different, I do not understand, but plenty of restaurants who have
dumped the unfair tipping system for service charges do succeed (and
seem to have better service). Shaw's idea should not hurt the costs
to a restaurant too much and would protect the servers.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...7/ai_n15326945

Some say service would go down if the server did not have the threat
of getting no tip, but if mamagement did an appropriate job of hiring,
training, and disciplining, I think service would improve and the
serving profession would gain more respect. The industry would also
have less resentment which leads to a high amount of theft and
revenge. I'd like to see a commission added for servers who sold
higher amounts. This would also drive up restaurant profits.

Why should often-ignorant customers get to choose how much a server is
paid for each transaction? I don't get to choose the pay of the Wawa
clerks who rings up my coffee if I don't feel she smiled enough at me.
Food servers are different than salespeople who work on commission,
and they are not independent contractors who get to choose how to run
their stations. They should be compensated fairly.

Nellie Paris

Nellie Paris wrote:

Why should often-ignorant customers get to choose how much a server is
paid for each transaction? I don't get to choose the pay of the Wawa
clerks who rings up my coffee if I don't feel she smiled enough at me.
Food servers are different than salespeople who work on commission,
and they are not independent contractors who get to choose how to run
their stations. They should be compensated fairly.

Restaurants and waitstaff are free to implement service-charge
based systems, so please don't blame the diners.

Steve

On Sun, 2 Oct 2005 18:36:02 +0000 (UTC), (Steve
Pope) wrote:

Restaurants and waitstaff are free to implement service-charge
based systems, so please don't blame the diners.

I *am* a diner, and I hate this system. It is socially awkward. I
just want to eat and pay without the task of punishment and reward.
That is the manager's job.

Waitstaff have no choice about the system in most places, btw, except
to work in the profession or not.

Nellie Paris

I couldn't agree with you more, Nellie. Diners are dining for convenience,
not management, that is what management is there for. It is our job to shape
and teach the staff of servers on proper service. The hardest thing to teach
is the fact, better service equals better tips; especially when that is not
all the time true. Taking it out of the guests hands would make our job as
managers easier. How do you explain a two dollar tip on a fifty dollar bill
when the service person is, in fact, one of your best servers.

I was just looking over my server's tip percentage report today which also
happens to have their sales percentages as well, it is a corporate mandate
to say that more sales equals higher tips, when the reality of it is in
black and white on this report. Some of my worse sellers are making higher
percentages of tips, which tells me, they are making just as much as the
ones who are doing their job.

By offering the auto-gratuity, you can ensure the guests that they will get
the proper service for their dollar, and you ensure the servers that they
will make money in regards to their efforts. It is a win win situation,
hands down, no argument against it.

Let guests be guests and managers be managers, period.

--


Primary:
Priority:
"Nellie Paris" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 2 Oct 2005 18:36:02 +0000 (UTC), (Steve
Pope) wrote:

Restaurants and waitstaff are free to implement service-charge
based systems, so please don't blame the diners.

I *am* a diner, and I hate this system. It is socially awkward. I
just want to eat and pay without the task of punishment and reward.
That is the manager's job.

Waitstaff have no choice about the system in most places, btw, except
to work in the profession or not.

Nellie Paris