In article , Shawn
Hirn wrote:

In article
anford.edu,
Al Eisner wrote:

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008, Golden California Girls wrote:

Oh, and I fully understand not ever wanting to eat a hamburger at BK,
Wendy's
or McDonands if there is an In-N-Out anywhere within 100 miles.

You must own stock!

But in any case, In-N-Out doesn't satisfy the original criteria, since
it's not a fast food place. Typical time delay is similar to that of
good non-chain burger places (unless one goes at very-off hours).

In my experience, the only reason In-N-Out isn't fast is because of the
long lines and their policy of making their burgers to order. I still
consider it a ff place though.

I've waited just as long at Burger King as at In-N-Out. Not
consistently, but sometimes.

By contrast, some sit-down Chinese places are able to deliver a
wok-cooked Chinese meal in less time than I have waited at either of
these burger places. (Having cooked on a wok, I know why...)

And Subway often can turn out a fresh sandwich in basically as short a
time as it takes me to move from one end of the line to the cash
register. A couple of minutes.

Still, the term "fast food" has a widely accepted meaning. So I use the
phrase as it is accepted.

--Tim May

In article ,
Shawn Hirn wrote:

In article
anford.edu,
Al Eisner wrote:

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008, Golden California Girls wrote:

Oh, and I fully understand not ever wanting to eat a hamburger at BK,
Wendy's
or McDonands if there is an In-N-Out anywhere within 100 miles.

You must own stock!

But in any case, In-N-Out doesn't satisfy the original criteria, since
it's not a fast food place. Typical time delay is similar to that of
good non-chain burger places (unless one goes at very-off hours).

In my experience, the only reason In-N-Out isn't fast is because of the
long lines and their policy of making their burgers to order. I still
consider it a ff place though.

A "fast food restaurant" is any that is focused primarily on take-out or
self-service (i.e., not waited table service). Order at a counter, pick
up the food and deliver it yourself or carry out.

Places like "The Counter" are in-between; the food quality is usually
higher than most fast food restaurants, and the service is usually
waited table, but the food is mostly the style of that found in fast
food restaurants (burgers and fried snacks).

Steve

--
steve at w0x0f dot com
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of
arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to
skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, chip shot in the other, body thoroughly
used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

Al Eisner wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jan 2008, Golden California Girls wrote:

Oh, and I fully understand not ever wanting to eat a hamburger at BK,
Wendy's or McDonands if there is an In-N-Out anywhere within 100 miles.


You must own stock!

But in any case, In-N-Out doesn't satisfy the original criteria, since
it's not a fast food place. Typical time delay is similar to that of
good non-chain burger places (unless one goes at very-off hours).

Not really, unless you're talking about drive thru.

At the In-N-Out in Milpitas, which is completely packed
24/7, you can walk in, get in one of the three lines,
and have your order taken within 5 minutes. They can
usually produce your order within another 5 to 10 minutes,
which is fine with me, given that it is cooked to order.

The only way you get served quicker at your other fast-food
burger joints is by ordering something that is likely to be
sitting ready to distribute from the burger bins.

When I order a McDonalds hamburger with only lettuce
and tomato and well-done, it gets made fresh and
takes about 10 minutes. They won't give me a premade
burger because they know that they are all are medium-well,
and would most-likely be returned. This gives me a
non-e-coli infested fresh burger that I can rely upon.

Al Eisner wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jan 2008, Golden California Girls wrote:

Oh, and I fully understand not ever wanting to eat a hamburger at BK,
Wendy's or McDonands if there is an In-N-Out anywhere within 100 miles.

You must own stock!

But in any case, In-N-Out doesn't satisfy the original criteria, since
it's not a fast food place. Typical time delay is similar to that of
good non-chain burger places (unless one goes at very-off hours).

So (for you) fast food is only possible if it is cook before order?

Al Eisner wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jan 2008, Golden California Girls wrote:

Oh, and I fully understand not ever wanting to eat a hamburger at BK,
Wendy's or McDonands if there is an In-N-Out anywhere within 100 miles.

You must own stock!

Then you would know who I am, it is privately owned and I'm not a member of that
family.

But in any case, In-N-Out doesn't satisfy the original criteria, since
it's not a fast food place. Typical time delay is similar to that of
good non-chain burger places (unless one goes at very-off hours).

Steve Pope wrote:
Al Eisner wrote:

But in any case, In-N-Out doesn't satisfy the original criteria, since
it's not a fast food place. Typical time delay is similar to that of
good non-chain burger places (unless one goes at very-off hours).

You and I have different definitions of fast food. In-N-out,
Val's, Nation's, all count as fast food. Anyplace that you pay first,
that produces your food within 15 minutes, and from which you normally
leave right after eating is fast food.

Chain vs. non-chain doesn't enter into the definition for me.

Sizzler salad bar fits in there where?

Golden California Girls wrote:

Steve Pope wrote:

You and I have different definitions of fast food. In-N-out,
Val's, Nation's, all count as fast food. Anyplace that you pay first,
that produces your food within 15 minutes, and from which you normally
leave right after eating is fast food.

Chain vs. non-chain doesn't enter into the definition for me.

Sizzler salad bar fits in there where?

Haven't been in one for years but they have table service true?
(e.g., for beverages even if you get the salad bar)?

And you could linger around for a beer or three if you liked?

That makes it non-fast-food, in my book.

Steve

Al Eisner writes:

But in any case, In-N-Out doesn't satisfy the original criteria,
since it's not a fast food place. Typical time delay is similar
to that of good non-chain burger places (unless one goes at very-
off hours).


Its being busy makes in not be a fast-food place? Interesting
reasoning...



Geoff

--
"The only person to ever look good in the back
of a 4-seater convertible was Adolf Hitler.
-- Jeremy Clarkson

RWW writes:

When I order a McDonalds hamburger with only lettuce
and tomato and well-done,

A troublemaker, huh?


it gets made fresh and takes about 10 minutes.

*Ten minutes* to make a McDonalds hamburger? That's crazy.
I suspect they're just trying to discourage you from making
special orders by making you wait.



Geoff

--
"The only person to ever look good in the back
of a 4-seater convertible was Adolf Hitler.
-- Jeremy Clarkson

Geoff Miller wrote:

*Ten minutes* to make a McDonalds hamburger? That's crazy.
I suspect they're just trying to discourage you from making
special orders by making you wait.

Probably it's less than 10 minutes. Unless the customer gets
out a watch and times such intervals, their estimates are
usually off.

Steve

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008, Golden California Girls wrote:

Al Eisner wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jan 2008, Golden California Girls wrote:

Oh, and I fully understand not ever wanting to eat a hamburger at BK,
Wendy's or McDonands if there is an In-N-Out anywhere within 100 miles.

You must own stock!

But in any case, In-N-Out doesn't satisfy the original criteria, since
it's not a fast food place. Typical time delay is similar to that of
good non-chain burger places (unless one goes at very-off hours).

So (for you) fast food is only possible if it is cook before order?

I would emphasize some combination of that with speed ("fast") -- that is,
that the restaurant "generally" be fast, which is usually acieved by
pre-cooking the food (except perhaps for a last step, like crisping up
fries). Still, the various responses suggest it isn't so clear-cut a
definition. I wouldn't agree with the issue of paying before eating --
e.g., Sizzler, which those addressing felt was NOT a fast-food place,
takes payment on ordering. Delivery of the food to your table may
also be a good test (i.e., most places that do that are probably not
fast food places).

However, in my initial comment I was certainly emphasizing the "fast".
In'n'Out is rarely fast, even if the line to order is short. If I order
a burger at a place I think we'd all agree is non-fast-food, such as
The Counter or Kirk's on the mid-peninsula **, it doesn't take any signifi-
cantly longer to arrive than it does at IN'n'Out, although perhaps you
would distinguish those places by their table-service (or at least
table-delivery).

** I see this thread is cross-posted, so I should note that these are
places in the San Francisco area.
--

Al Eisner
San Mateo Co., CA

In article
anford.edu, Al
Eisner wrote:


However, in my initial comment I was certainly emphasizing the "fast".
In'n'Out is rarely fast, even if the line to order is short. If I order
a burger at a place I think we'd all agree is non-fast-food, such as
The Counter or Kirk's on the mid-peninsula **, it doesn't take any signifi-
cantly longer to arrive than it does at IN'n'Out, although perhaps you
would distinguish those places by their table-service (or at least
table-delivery).

In-N-Out does a very healthy drive-through business. Indeed, this is
pretty much how they started, in the layouts which lasted into the
1990s.

I call any place with a drive-through lane, that is popular, a fast
food place.


--Tim May

In article
anford.edu,
Al Eisner wrote:

However, in my initial comment I was certainly emphasizing the "fast".
In'n'Out is rarely fast, even if the line to order is short. If I order
a burger at a place I think we'd all agree is non-fast-food, such as
The Counter or Kirk's on the mid-peninsula **, it doesn't take any signifi-
cantly longer to arrive than it does at IN'n'Out, although perhaps you
would distinguish those places by their table-service (or at least
table-delivery).

Having just dined at The Counter this weekend, I would disagree with
your assertion that they do not take significantly longer to deliver
meals than In-n-Out. Our meal went:

1) Order (t=0)
2) Receive drinks (t+5minutes)
3) Receive fries/onion strings (t+10 minutes)
4) Receive burgers (t+20 minutes)

This is not unusual for The Counter; the fries are treated (by them) as
an appetizer.

You're asserting that it takes 20 minutes to receive your burgers at
In-n-Out? I've never waited that long inside, even when the line was out
the door (e.g., Vacaville, weekend lunch, summer weekend).

Steve

--
steve at w0x0f dot com
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of
arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to
skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, chip shot in the other, body thoroughly
used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

On Mon, 14 Jan 2008, Steve Fenwick wrote:

In article
anford.edu,
Al Eisner wrote:

However, in my initial comment I was certainly emphasizing the "fast".
In'n'Out is rarely fast, even if the line to order is short. If I order
a burger at a place I think we'd all agree is non-fast-food, such as
The Counter or Kirk's on the mid-peninsula **, it doesn't take any signifi-
cantly longer to arrive than it does at IN'n'Out, although perhaps you
would distinguish those places by their table-service (or at least
table-delivery).

Having just dined at The Counter this weekend, I would disagree with
your assertion that they do not take significantly longer to deliver
meals than In-n-Out. Our meal went:

1) Order (t=0)
2) Receive drinks (t+5minutes)
3) Receive fries/onion strings (t+10 minutes)
4) Receive burgers (t+20 minutes)

This is not unusual for The Counter; the fries are treated (by them) as
an appetizer.

I guess that matches my maximum-wait experience at The Counter. I've
only been there about four times, so perhaps I don't have adequate
statistics. Still, they are serving something in less time. Kirk's,
which I've been to many more times, is decidedly faster, with waits
rarely more than 10 minutes.

You're asserting that it takes 20 minutes to receive your burgers at
In-n-Out? I've never waited that long inside, even when the line was out
the door (e.g., Vacaville, weekend lunch, summer weekend).

Definitely, I've seen 20 minute waits at In-n-Out. And I don't recall
ever having a wait less than 10 minutes. Also, given the atmosphere of
the place (which is very fast-food like) the wait *feels* even longer.
--

Al Eisner
San Mateo Co., CA

Al Eisner wrote:

Definitely, I've seen 20 minute waits at In-n-Out. And I don't recall
ever having a wait less than 10 minutes. Also, given the atmosphere of
the place (which is very fast-food like) the wait *feels* even longer.

Don't know which In-and-Out that was, but I've seen them serve 50 orders inside
20 minutes with a wait from order to serve on the order of five minutes. Must
depend on the location and the manager.