Friends have been encouraging me to try a type Vietnamese noodle soup
called "PHO". Unfortunately, I had pho for the first time at a Chinese-
Vietnamese (I didn't know any better). It was terrible.

My second time having pho was at an authentic Vietnamese. The difference
was so great that I now have decided never having pho at a Chinese
restaurant.

Why is it that Chinese often imitate Vietnamese food and ruin its
reputation?

In rec.food.restaurants Mojav wrote:
Friends have been encouraging me to try a type Vietnamese noodle soup
called "PHO". Unfortunately, I had pho for the first time at a Chinese-
Vietnamese (I didn't know any better). It was terrible.

My second time having pho was at an authentic Vietnamese. The difference
was so great that I now have decided never having pho at a Chinese
restaurant.

Why is it that Chinese often imitate Vietnamese food and ruin its
reputation?

Considering the popularity of Chinese food over Vietnamese, it's more
likely that a Chinese-Vietnamese restaurant would be Vietnamese imitating
Chinese. Anyway, pho is basically ramen with higher-quality ingredients, a
restaurant would have to be pretty bad to **** it up.

"anon" wrote in message
...
In rec.food.restaurants Mojav wrote:
Friends have been encouraging me to try a type Vietnamese noodle soup
called "PHO". Unfortunately, I had pho for the first time at a Chinese-
Vietnamese (I didn't know any better). It was terrible.

I agreed with you there... Onetime, I was out of town, and in the mood for a
bowl of PHO so bad. The only place I could found is a chinese rest', and the
PHO was so terrible. They put the damn celery in it....


My second time having pho was at an authentic Vietnamese. The difference
was so great that I now have decided never having pho at a Chinese
restaurant.

Why is it that Chinese often imitate Vietnamese food and ruin its
reputation?

Considering the popularity of Chinese food over Vietnamese, it's more
likely that a Chinese-Vietnamese restaurant would be Vietnamese imitating
Chinese. Anyway, pho is basically ramen with higher-quality ingredients, a
restaurant would have to be pretty bad to **** it up.

PHO is originated from Vietnam. Apparently you have not had PHO yet to
compare PHO with RAMEN.

In article , Steve Wertz
wrote:

On 18 Dec 2003 09:02:36 GMT, anon wrote:

Anyway, pho is basically ramen with higher-quality ingredients, a
restaurant would have to be pretty bad to **** it up.

Pho is *not* ramen. Not even close. Traditional pho is much more
complicated to prepare and things can and do go wrong. A bowl of pho
takes no less than 7 hours to prepare (most of that time being the
stock).

Pho noodles are closer to Japanese udon than to Chinese ramen noodles.
Big thick chewy things wholly unlike ramen. Ramen are thin spindly
things. And the broth is different and the ingredients are different.
And the side-plate of salad ingredients to be added are different. To
be fair, the long cylinderical aspects are the same! And it's soup!

It's kind of like saying that pho is basically spaghetti. "Anon" should
try some pho some time.

Nevertheless I've had pho at maybe 40 different places and I've yet to
run into anything that could be considered "bad". But then it wasn't
exaclty a soufle or anything.

--
First they gerrymander us into one-party fiefs. Then they tell us they only
care about the swing districts. Then they complain about voter apathy.
-- Gail Collins

Gerry wrote in message ...
In article , Steve Wertz
wrote:

On 18 Dec 2003 09:02:36 GMT, anon wrote:

Anyway, pho is basically ramen with higher-quality ingredients, a
restaurant would have to be pretty bad to **** it up.

Pho is *not* ramen. Not even close. Traditional pho is much more
complicated to prepare and things can and do go wrong. A bowl of pho
takes no less than 7 hours to prepare (most of that time being the
stock).

Pho noodles are closer to Japanese udon than to Chinese ramen noodles.
Big thick chewy things wholly unlike ramen. Ramen are thin spindly
things. And the broth is different and the ingredients are different.
And the side-plate of salad ingredients to be added are different. To
be fair, the long cylinderical aspects are the same! And it's soup!

It's kind of like saying that pho is basically spaghetti. "Anon" should
try some pho some time.

Nevertheless I've had pho at maybe 40 different places and I've yet to
run into anything that could be considered "bad". But then it wasn't
exaclty a soufle or anything.

__________________________________________________ ____________________________

hahhahhdhdhdhhdhhdhe`, what do U know about food chain??????
Pho in SG are mixed with Chinese, French, and VNese. they are not the
Original Omore, Japanese are noodles n ho****er? Chinese are Sharp fin
soup n S/S pork...Most of VNese Pho are looked Pho but the key is the
smell of Pho, when U smell U then U wanna eat..All pho U C r looked
like Pho not smell or taste like Pho yet.... if U go to Van Phong Bay
U will C a few good but U wanna taste better go swim on the Beach and
it burn most of your energy n your chemical in your body that will
increase your taste....they r many chemical of food in VN are good U
don't try it yet.. no Italy spaghetti=meat ball, mushroom n tomato
sauces or pizza, only cream, cheese, bettter, salt, pepper,
ect........or U can Ca' Mai Shu C n Salad

I'm just guessing

Pho made from white rice and taste like white rice. Ramen made from yellow
wheet or some thing not rice.

Steve Wertz wrote in message ...
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 22:47:28 +0000 (UTC), Adrav
wrote:

In la.eats Steve Wertz wrote:
On 18 Dec 2003 09:02:36 GMT, anon wrote:

Anyway, pho is basically ramen with higher-quality ingredients, a
restaurant would have to be pretty bad to **** it up.

Pho is *not* ramen. Not even close. Traditional pho is much more
complicated to prepare and things can and do go wrong. A bowl of pho
takes no less than 7 hours to prepare (most of that time being the
stock).

-sw

Here is one recipe I found. Perhaps Mr or Ms Tran could comment
on its authenticity:

http://www.recipesource.com/text/eth...amese/pho2.txt

I do a lot of vietnamese cooking (and eating out) and yes, it's a
pretty authentic recipe, other than the addition or substitution of
some veggies/herbs that are not commonly available here in the US.
This is what you'll find in most US restaurants, though some places
are likely to take shortcuts on the stock.

-sw

In article , Steve Wertz
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 15:21:22 -0800, Gerry
wrote:

In article , Steve Wertz
wrote:

On 18 Dec 2003 09:02:36 GMT, anon wrote:

Anyway, pho is basically ramen with higher-quality ingredients, a
restaurant would have to be pretty bad to **** it up.

Pho is *not* ramen. Not even close. Traditional pho is much more
complicated to prepare and things can and do go wrong. A bowl of pho
takes no less than 7 hours to prepare (most of that time being the
stock).

Pho noodles are closer to Japanese udon than to Chinese ramen noodles.

Noodles in pho are usually rice or egg noodles. Most places give you
a choice of the two, and in the case of rice noodles - sometimes you
can get specifiy large or small noodles. At least in my experience.

My experience is that pho noodles are always rice, and they are a large
noodle. They have mi, which is egg noodles. A sturdy egg noodle, also
in a soup, though this time a chicken broth. And they have the "glass
noodle" medium sized; I forget the name but it's not called pho.

I've never seen a choice of noodle in pho. The idea of having small or
large, rice or egg, beef or chicken: I don't think the choice is about
pho, so much as it's a choice over everything they have for sale.

I'm not Vietnamese, so can't say anything for sure. But I've certainly
eaten my fair share of Vietnamese food.

--
First they gerrymander us into one-party fiefs. Then they tell us they only
care about the swing districts. Then they complain about voter apathy.
-- Gail Collins

In article , Andy_L123
wrote:

It's kind of like saying that pho is basically spaghetti. "Anon" should
try some pho some time.

Nevertheless I've had pho at maybe 40 different places and I've yet to
run into anything that could be considered "bad". But then it wasn't
exaclty a soufle or anything.

__________________________________________________ ____________________________

hahhahhdhdhdhhdhhdhe`, what do U know about food chain??????

I don't eat in chain restaurants. What else do I need to know?

Pho in SG are mixed with Chinese, French, and VNese. they are not the
Original Omore, Japanese are noodles n ho****er? Chinese are Sharp fin
soup n S/S pork...Most of VNese Pho are looked Pho but the key is the
smell of Pho, when U smell U then U wanna eat..All pho U C r looked
like Pho not smell or taste like Pho yet.... if U go to Van Phong Bay
U will C a few good but U wanna taste better go swim on the Beach and
it burn most of your energy n your chemical in your body that will
increase your taste....they r many chemical of food in VN are good U
don't try it yet.. no Italy spaghetti=meat ball, mushroom n tomato
sauces or pizza, only cream, cheese, bettter, salt, pepper,
ect........or U can Ca' Mai Shu C n Salad

I'm just guessing

Very educational. Don't forget to take your medication.

--
First they gerrymander us into one-party fiefs. Then they tell us they only
care about the swing districts. Then they complain about voter apathy.
-- Gail Collins

In rec.food.restaurants Steve Wertz wrote:
On 18 Dec 2003 09:02:36 GMT, anon wrote:

Anyway, pho is basically ramen with higher-quality ingredients, a
restaurant would have to be pretty bad to **** it up.

Pho is *not* ramen. Not even close. Traditional pho is much more
complicated to prepare and things can and do go wrong. A bowl of pho
takes no less than 7 hours to prepare (most of that time being the
stock).

-sw

Preparation may vary depending on the choice of ingredients, but in the
actual cooking, you are, again, basically making ramen with higher-quality
ingredients. The concept is the same.

In article , anon
wrote:

Anyway, pho is basically ramen with higher-quality ingredients, a
restaurant would have to be pretty bad to **** it up.

Pho is *not* ramen. Not even close. Traditional pho is much more
complicated to prepare and things can and do go wrong. A bowl of pho
takes no less than 7 hours to prepare (most of that time being the
stock).

Preparation may vary depending on the choice of ingredients, but in the
actual cooking, you are, again, basically making ramen with higher-quality
ingredients. The concept is the same.

That's about as reductionist as you can get.

I think this is wrong for two basic reasons. These two basic reasons
are the noodle and the broth.

In Pho the noodle is (generally) rice noodle. I read the Vietnamese
cookbooks and they talk about the myriad approaches available in
Vietnam, all apparently called pho. I'm talking about what's really
available in Little Saigon, Westminster, CA.

In Ramen the noodle is wheat flour. The noodles tastes different, is
texturally different and is different in size. The broths are
different. Pho has complex tastes that are specifically Vietnamese in
ingredients and approach. Ramen has tastes associated with the Japanese
view of Chinese tastes.

In Pho you have fresh been sprouts and hot chilis and other claptrap on
a side dish. With Ramen you have ginger and mustard and other kinds of
claptrap to add or avoid.

In big reductionist picture, yes, Ramen, Pho and Campbell's Chicken
noodles soup are all, pretty much the same thing. Just like hominids of
different races, species, cultures and languages are all pretty much
the same thing.

--
First they gerrymander us into one-party fiefs. Then they tell us they only
care about the swing districts. Then they complain about voter apathy.
-- Gail Collins

anon wrote in message ...
In rec.food.restaurants Steve Wertz wrote:
On 18 Dec 2003 09:02:36 GMT, anon wrote:

Anyway, pho is basically ramen with higher-quality ingredients, a
restaurant would have to be pretty bad to **** it up.

Pho is *not* ramen. Not even close. Traditional pho is much more
complicated to prepare and things can and do go wrong. A bowl of pho
takes no less than 7 hours to prepare (most of that time being the
stock).

-sw

Preparation may vary depending on the choice of ingredients, but in the
actual cooking, you are, again, basically making ramen with higher-quality
ingredients. The concept is the same.
__________________________________________________ ____________________________

Food is food 2 fillup your guts. good or not is basic on where U r n
your tongues make of DNA...1 things can make all happy...as long U r
happy n healthy n pho is pho, hamburger is hamburger...

In article , anon says...

In rec.food.restaurants Mojav wrote:
Friends have been encouraging me to try a type Vietnamese noodle soup
called "PHO". Unfortunately, I had pho for the first time at a Chinese-
Vietnamese (I didn't know any better). It was terrible.

My second time having pho was at an authentic Vietnamese. The difference
was so great that I now have decided never having pho at a Chinese
restaurant.

Why is it that Chinese often imitate Vietnamese food and ruin its
reputation?

Considering the popularity of Chinese food over Vietnamese, it's more
likely that a Chinese-Vietnamese restaurant would be Vietnamese imitating
Chinese. Anyway, pho is basically ramen with higher-quality ingredients, a
restaurant would have to be pretty bad to **** it up.

A basic hamburger is hard to **** up too, but I give you Hardees.

Actually, there are many ethnic Chinese in Vietnam and Korea. One of our better
neighborhood Chinese restaurants in the Cleveland suburbs is run by Vietnamese.
A Chinese restaurant on Hwy 31W near Ft. Knox where I used to eat is run by
Koreans. You can see them write up the order in Hangul. The food was decent.

I was fortunate enough to live next door to a very good Vietnamese restaurant in
Berea, OH called Minh Anh(?). Their Bun Bo Xao was outstanding, as were their
spring rolls. Their Chinese food was mediocre at best. There's also a very
good Vietnamese restaurant in Lakewood, OH called as a matter of fact, "Pho".
It's a little hole in the wall that used to be an iced cream parlor. Driving
through the north side of Chicago this weekend, I saw a much classier Vietnamese
place also called "Pho".

About the only thing I'd generalize on is that I've never had good sashimi or
sushi in a "Japanese" restaurant run by Koreans. But then I only know of one,
and that's hardly a useful sample set. By contrast, the best Chinese food I've
EVER had was in a Chinese restaurant on a mountaintop in Seoul.

Oh yeah, Hardees sucks no matter where you go....


--
Gun control, the theory that 110lb. women should have to fistfight with 210lb.
rapists.

In article , Steve Wertz says...

On 18 Dec 2003 09:02:36 GMT, anon wrote:

Anyway, pho is basically ramen with higher-quality ingredients, a
restaurant would have to be pretty bad to **** it up.

Pho is *not* ramen. Not even close. Traditional pho is much more
complicated to prepare and things can and do go wrong. A bowl of pho
takes no less than 7 hours to prepare (most of that time being the
stock).

What's the difference [if any] between pho and bun bo xao?


--
Gun control, the theory that 110lb. women should have to fistfight with 210lb.
rapists.

In article , Steve Wertz says...

On 28 Dec 2003 14:00:11 -0800, Chris Morton
wrote:

In article , Steve Wertz says...

On 18 Dec 2003 09:02:36 GMT, anon wrote:

Anyway, pho is basically ramen with higher-quality ingredients, a
restaurant would have to be pretty bad to **** it up.

Pho is *not* ramen. Not even close. Traditional pho is much more
complicated to prepare and things can and do go wrong. A bowl of pho
takes no less than 7 hours to prepare (most of that time being the
stock).

What's the difference [if any] between pho and bun bo xao?

Pho has stock, the bun dishes don't. The beef would be whole meat,
rather than some of the less desirable (to americans) tendon, tripe or
[fatty] brisket often found in the pho.

Note that there's a whole nuther category of vietnamese soups. Pho is
just pone particular kind of 'soup'. Pho is really considered a dish
rather than a soup.

Thanks.

All I know about Vietnamese food is from what I've eaten at a couple of
Vietnamese restaurants in the Cleveland area.


--
Gun control, the theory that 110lb. women should have to fistfight with 210lb.
rapists.

In article , Steve Wertz says...

On 28 Dec 2003 13:59:02 -0800, Chris Morton
wrote:

Oh yeah, Hardees sucks no matter where you go....

Their angus burgers (I think it's all they make anymore) are actually
pretty good. Best fast food burger I've had in years. ven better
when you have a 2 for 1 coupon.

Must be a personal taste thing.

I first ate at Hardees in Fulton, MO in '76. Worst fast food I'd EVER had.

From then on, every ten years or so, I eat at a Hardees. That assessment never
changes.

I ate at one on the Indiana turnpike recently. While it wasn't make you sick
disgusting, it was still worse than every other fastfood chain I regularly eat
at, from McDonalds to Taco Bell.


--
Gun control, the theory that 110lb. women should have to fistfight with 210lb.
rapists.