Marilyn© wrote:
[snip]

Back, up Mark...do you even remember your original post? I do.
Here, I'll repost it for you and refresh your memory on what your
original question was and the one that you keep bringing up again and
again and again and not being satisfied with any answers that anyone
has given you regarding canning time. And yes, there have been many
responses about canning time. You can even go google it to read the
entire thread. *************************
[snip]

Yes, I do generally have meat in my soups, but I also can things like
salsa and stewed tomatoes and chili and turkey and spaghetti sauce
and chicken broth, etc., etc., etc. and I follow the processing times
as given by the USDA or the NCHFP or in the Ball Blue Book or in the
book that came with my Mirro pressure canner. I don't go, "ah, gee,
I really don't want to have to have my canner running for as long as
it says in the directions, I really wish I could do it for less
time." No, I just do it.


Please dont take this as me pressing the issue until I get the
answer I want. The only times I have reitterated the initial
question was to clarify my question being misread or
misinterpretted as has specifically been the case with Brian. He
has restated things that I have never implied and things that can
not even be found in this thread. Yes, these are pet peeves of mine
but thats not why I am going on and on but I dont like to be
misquoted. Its all part of Usenet.


Go back and read the entire thread, Mark. I don't see Brian
misquoting you anywhere. And you have kept on repeating the original
question. You never once said, "okay, the approved sources say do
process for such-and-such time, then I'd better follow suit."

People do go off on tangents. That's also part of Usenet. Always
has been. Unmoderated Usenet is anarchy in its finest form.


Good day, Mark


And the same to you.



I took the original question to mean, "I really don't want to process it
that long, am I even looking at the right recipe?" That's why I first
asked why the processing time makes any difference; then I looked for
some alternate recipes. The recipe referenced at nchfp is designed to
be used with any combination of meat and vegetables. It will work just
fine for vegetable soups, because the vegetables will be so overcooked
after the first 30 or 40 minutes, the rest of the processing won't
really affect their texture much. Besides, I like for the vegetables to
be cooked to death in soups.

Best regards,
Bob

Folks, can we give this thread a rest now?

It has wandered far afield from the OPs original questions and is
beginning to sound like a rec.food.cooking thread from all the
snapping at each other that's going on.

......Alan.


Post no bills

Marilyn© wrote:

Sorry, but it still reads as if you want to can the soup for less time and that you just
don't want to can it for the time specified,

_Not true_ and was never stated by me, you may have taken it that way,
but you took it wrong, look at bobs last reply to the thread and you can
see how you should have taken it. That said, I dont hold it against you
in any way. Its a defect of the medium in which we are communicating
that points are missed.

I follow the processing times as given by the USDA or the NCHFP or in the Ball Blue Book
or in the book that came with my Mirro pressure canner. I don't go, "ah, gee, I really
don't want to have to have my canner running for as long as it says in the directions, I
really wish I could do it for less time." No, I just do it.

What if your ingredients dont match that of any printed recipe? What if
You only have three of the 10 ingredients to can? Do you throw them in
the trash because you cant find a recipe to put ONLY these few
ingredients to use?

Here is an exercise for you using the recipe in question. (The recipe
at: http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can_04/soups.html )

Lets use the seafood example, It is called out at 100 minutes canning
time. Now, remove the seafood and trade it for meat or poultry and you
only have to can it for 75 minutes. What if you remove the meat? Then
you are left with vegetables. Here is an interesting observation, corn,
which is a vegetable, could be in that soup (it doesnt exclude any
vegetables) which is canned at 75 minutes and yet its stated on the site
that corn requires 85 minutes individually. But lets leave that aside.
Now we have a soup with meat and ANY vegetable in it which is canned for
75 minutes. What if we take the meat out? What if we take beans out,
what if we take pumpkin, winter squash, greens, spinach (a whopping 90
minutes but it can be in this recipe at 75 minutes), pepper, potatoes,
beets, take them all out. Then what is the time?

I realize this is not a question you choose to, or can answer, the point
you cant seem to grasp is that that is FINE, dont answer it. You can
read the last few replies from zxcvbob to see what the answer could be.
There is no one here asking you to sign your name to an answer to which
you can later be held accountable. I understand fully you were trying to
help and I appreciate that completely.

I admit fully after reading zxcvbob's last reply that I should have
worded the question:
" I am only canning these 5 vegetables in a soup and can only find xyz
recipe which calls out vegetables with much longer canning times, does
anyone know of a recipe that more closely matches my ingredients? "

Hind sight is always 20/20


You never once said, "okay, the
approved sources say do process for such-and-such time, then I'd better follow suit."

I never once said this because "approved sources" dont call out a
processing time for the ingredients I mentioned alone, which, uh, is why
I asked the question in the first place? While I dont expect to find a
recipe for my specific ingredients every time, I am logical enough to
see, as bob stated in his reply, that the reason you can include ANY
vegetable in the recipe quoted above is because it covers ALL, even the
longest, vegetables. This would inhearantly mean, through the process of
deduction, that if you took out the longest vegetables the time would
shorten, take out the second shortest and the time would shorten more,
this process would continue until you reach the single ingredient with
the shortest processing time. While you may be fine with just saying
"ahh, what the hell, I will just can it for an hour and a half to be
safe because thats what the recipe with corn calls for" I choose to say,
"Hmmm, corn takes a long time to can, if the corn isnt in there it
SURELY must take less time?". And low an behold zxcvbob quotes a recipe
with no corn, no meat or poultry, no seafood, and WOW, what a shocker,
its got a 40 minute processing time!!!!! Jeeze, what a surprise. Can you
believe it? I am beside myself!!! Who woulda thunk it?!!?
Now the recipe doesnt have cabbage or okra in it, which are in my soup,
the recipe fullfills the answer to the question. Okra is only a 40
minute processing time (if left whole), and cabbage is canned in soups
in many recipes for 50 minutes and under.


While it may not "sit well" with you, this all means that you can safely
and in good practice _think outside the box_ at times, and think. We can
not expect the blue book, NCHFP, etc. to come up with recipe's for every
possible combination. If you choose not to think outside the box, as I
have stated over and over, that is COMPLETELY fine. Simply know that "I"
expected nothing from you, if you had something to contribute that
pertained to the topic that I am completely appreciative, if you have
other information I will accept it as valuable information, but I am
still looking for the answer to a question that had not been answered
but now has. It was just a long road.

Mark

In ,
Mark & Shauna took a deep breath, sighed and spoke thusly:
Marilyn© wrote:

Sorry, but it still reads as if you want to can the soup for less
time and that you just don't want to can it for the time specified,

_Not true_ and was never stated by me, you may have taken it that
way,
but you took it wrong, look at bobs last reply to the thread and you
can
see how you should have taken it. That said, I dont hold it against
you
in any way. Its a defect of the medium in which we are communicating
that points are missed.

This is is the way it sounded to me. I can't read anymore than what's printed here.


I follow the processing times as given by the USDA or the NCHFP or
in the Ball Blue Book or in the book that came with my Mirro
pressure canner. I don't go, "ah, gee, I really don't want to have
to have my canner running for as long as it says in the directions,
I really wish I could do it for less time." No, I just do it.

What if your ingredients dont match that of any printed recipe? What
if
You only have three of the 10 ingredients to can? Do you throw them in
the trash because you cant find a recipe to put ONLY these few
ingredients to use?

If they don't match exactly what I want, then I still go ahead and use that recipe, as
long as I'm not putting things into it that are unusual, such as vegetables that may not
have processing times listed anywhere. Sometimes you do have to improvise. I would not
throw them in the trash. But I would still go with the longest processing time.

Here is an exercise for you using the recipe in question. (The recipe
at: http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can_04/soups.html )

Lets use the seafood example, It is called out at 100 minutes canning
time. Now, remove the seafood and trade it for meat or poultry and you
only have to can it for 75 minutes. What if you remove the meat? Then
you are left with vegetables. Here is an interesting observation,
corn,
which is a vegetable, could be in that soup (it doesnt exclude any
vegetables) which is canned at 75 minutes and yet its stated on the
site
that corn requires 85 minutes individually. But lets leave that aside.
Now we have a soup with meat and ANY vegetable in it which is canned
for 75 minutes. What if we take the meat out? What if we take beans
out,
what if we take pumpkin, winter squash, greens, spinach (a whopping 90
minutes but it can be in this recipe at 75 minutes), pepper, potatoes,
beets, take them all out. Then what is the time?

I would still go with the longest processing time.

I realize this is not a question you choose to, or can answer, the
point
you cant seem to grasp is that that is FINE, dont answer it. You can
read the last few replies from zxcvbob to see what the answer could
be.
There is no one here asking you to sign your name to an answer to
which
you can later be held accountable. I understand fully you were trying
to
help and I appreciate that completely.

I admit fully after reading zxcvbob's last reply that I should have
worded the question:
" I am only canning these 5 vegetables in a soup and can only find xyz
recipe which calls out vegetables with much longer canning times, does
anyone know of a recipe that more closely matches my ingredients? "

Hind sight is always 20/20

That's right. If you had worded it that way, you would have gotten different responses.

You never once said, "okay, the
approved sources say do process for such-and-such time, then I'd
better follow suit."

I never once said this because "approved sources" dont call out a
processing time for the ingredients I mentioned alone, which, uh, is
why
I asked the question in the first place? While I dont expect to find a
recipe for my specific ingredients every time, I am logical enough to
see, as bob stated in his reply, that the reason you can include ANY
vegetable in the recipe quoted above is because it covers ALL, even
the
longest, vegetables. This would inhearantly mean, through the process
of
deduction, that if you took out the longest vegetables the time would
shorten, take out the second shortest and the time would shorten more,
this process would continue until you reach the single ingredient with
the shortest processing time. While you may be fine with just saying
"ahh, what the hell, I will just can it for an hour and a half to be
safe because thats what the recipe with corn calls for" I choose to
say, "Hmmm, corn takes a long time to can, if the corn isnt in there
it
SURELY must take less time?". And low an behold zxcvbob quotes a
recipe
with no corn, no meat or poultry, no seafood, and WOW, what a shocker,
its got a 40 minute processing time!!!!! Jeeze, what a surprise. Can
you
believe it? I am beside myself!!! Who woulda thunk it?!!?
Now the recipe doesnt have cabbage or okra in it, which are in my
soup,
the recipe fullfills the answer to the question. Okra is only a 40
minute processing time (if left whole), and cabbage is canned in soups
in many recipes for 50 minutes and under.


While it may not "sit well" with you, this all means that you can
safely
and in good practice _think outside the box_ at times, and think. We
can
not expect the blue book, NCHFP, etc. to come up with recipe's for
every
possible combination. If you choose not to think outside the box, as I
have stated over and over, that is COMPLETELY fine. Simply know that
"I"
expected nothing from you, if you had something to contribute that
pertained to the topic that I am completely appreciative, if you have
other information I will accept it as valuable information, but I am
still looking for the answer to a question that had not been answered
but now has. It was just a long road.

Mark



--
Marilyn
-----------
"They got a name for the winners in the world
I want a name when I lose"