Preserving (rec.food.preserving) Devoted to the discussion of recipes, equipment, and techniques of food preservation. Techniques that should be discussed in this forum include canning, freezing, dehydration, pickling, smoking, salting, and distilling.

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Default Canning recipe specifies jar size - dangerous to change?

I've done some canning with pint and half pint jars. Haven't killed or
sickened anyone yet. Recently a friend gave me a dozen quart size jars
and I'd like to can some salsa in them. Is the jar size one of those
aspects of canning recipes that can be unsafe to change? Should I look
for a different salsa recipe that specifies quart jars in the end
step? I really don't want to give anyone botulism for Xmas.

I realize the amount of air space or whatever you call it at top of
jar might need to be different for quart jars than for pints. Is there
a rule for that, or does it depend on exactly what kind of food you're
processing?

Thanks for your help!
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Default Canning recipe specifies jar size - dangerous to change?


"Deidzoeb" > wrote in message
...
> I've done some canning with pint and half pint jars. Haven't killed or
> sickened anyone yet. Recently a friend gave me a dozen quart size jars
> and I'd like to can some salsa in them. Is the jar size one of those
> aspects of canning recipes that can be unsafe to change?


Without adjusting the process time, yes.

> Should I look
> for a different salsa recipe that specifies quart jars in the end
> step? I really don't want to give anyone botulism for Xmas.
>


Your going to have to correct me if your favorite salsa recipie is
different, but most of them I've seen spec tomato chunks. In short,
the finished product has significantly sized chunks of tomato in
it. ANY of these recipies should be pressure canned regardless
of any acidification that the recipie may specify or regardless of
any boiling water canning that is specified. Tomatos are
now known to be borderline low-acid, and the problem is that
in a recipie where they survive intact, you can have regions within
the tomato chunk that the acidification hasn't penetrated.

There's a botulism story floating around on the Internet where
2 family members ended up in an Iron Lung for a week
while their systems recovered, and the health department
decanted and tested every one of their 50 quarts of spaghetti
sauce they had boiling water canned, and found botulism
toxin in only 3 of them. Their sauces had ground hamburger
in them. The thought was that the toxin was created in
meat chunks and migrated to the surrounding areas.

With pressure canning, the process times are generally very,
very long. Read the manual that came with your pressure canner.
It will spec times for classifications of foods, these should
always trump whatever the recipie specs.

The more important issue, though, is convenience of the
recipient. You may like eating salsa a lot and could maybe
eat up a quart jar in a week, around here we use salsa only
for dipping potato chips into, and a pint is a 6 month supply
for us.

This is why I do most of my jam canning in 1/2
pint jars. I have several jam varieties I can. If I put them in
pints, I would get tired of that variety before finishing off the
jar, so I would end up with multiple open jam jars in the
refrigerator.

> I realize the amount of air space or whatever you call it at top of
> jar might need to be different for quart jars than for pints. Is there
> a rule for that, or does it depend on exactly what kind of food you're
> processing?
>


I have found it really doesen't make much difference. I can applesauce
in quarts because when we open a quart of applesauce we eat it
within a couple days, and I just leave the same headspace as in 1/2
pint jars. However I do leave a lot more headspace in jars when I
can turkey soup in the pressure canner.

Ted


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Default Canning recipe specifies jar size - dangerous to change?

Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:

(excellent post about saftey....)

> The more important issue, though, is convenience of the
> recipient. You may like eating salsa a lot and could maybe
> eat up a quart jar in a week, around here we use salsa only
> for dipping potato chips into, and a pint is a 6 month supply
> for us.


Even for we who are realtively heavy salsa eaters, a jar of commerical salsa
(probably a pint) is about a week's supply. But we "cycle", some weeks
the chips get eaten with salsa, sometimes my kids just snack them plain.

Occasionaly the jars mirgrate to the back of the refigerator and are not found
for weeks. They loose flavor and eventually become "biology experiments".

> This is why I do most of my jam canning in 1/2
> pint jars. I have several jam varieties I can. If I put them in
> pints, I would get tired of that variety before finishing off the
> jar, so I would end up with multiple open jam jars in the
> refrigerator.


That is signifcantly different. Unless it's low sugar jam, it will not
mold or develop any other problems if left closed in the refrigerator.
I would not say the same for salsa.

I think Ted's right. Unless the people you are going to give the salsa
are really into it, or have a very large family, I would stick to the
small jars.

There's also a matter of taste, while people who for example like strawberry
jam will eat almost any strawberry jam you give them, individual taste in
salsa varries. In my own family one likes mild, one likes medium and two
like hot. You can always "tollerate" mild, or add tabasco to it if you
are a hot eater, but you can't "unheat" it if you are not.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
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Default Canning recipe specifies jar size - dangerous to change?

"Ted Mittelstaedt" > wrote in message
...
>
> Your going to have to correct me if your favorite salsa recipie is
> different, but most of them I've seen spec tomato chunks. In short,
> the finished product has significantly sized chunks of tomato in
> it. ANY of these recipies should be pressure canned regardless
> of any acidification that the recipie may specify or regardless of
> any boiling water canning that is specified. Tomatos are
> now known to be borderline low-acid, and the problem is that
> in a recipie where they survive intact, you can have regions within
> the tomato chunk that the acidification hasn't penetrated.
>


I'm going to disagree with you here, Ted. There are salsa recipes that are
safe for BWB canning at the NCHFP website, some (most) of which call for
chopped tomatoes. I can't imagine those folks would leave any recipes up at
their site if they weren't sure they were safe.

Think of the tomatoes in salsa as being similar to the cucumber chunks or
slices in pickles. One-day recipes for pickles call for a significant
amount of vinegar. So do safe for BWB salsas.

Anny


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Default Canning recipe specifies jar size - dangerous to change?

On Jul 16, 3:40*am, "Ted Mittelstaedt" > wrote:
> "Deidzoeb" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > I've done some canning with pint and half pint jars. Haven't killed or
> > sickened anyone yet. Recently a friend gave me a dozen quart size jars
> > and I'd like to can some salsa in them. Is the jar size one of those
> > aspects of canning recipes that can be unsafe to change?

>
> Without adjusting the process time, yes.
>
> > Should I look
> > for a different salsa recipe that specifies quart jars in the end
> > step? I really don't want to give anyone botulism for Xmas.

>
> Your going to have to correct me if your favorite salsa recipie is
> different, but most of them I've seen spec tomato chunks. *In short,
> the finished product has significantly sized chunks of tomato in
> it. *ANY of these recipies should be pressure canned regardless
> of any acidification that the recipie may specify or regardless of
> any boiling water canning that is specified. *Tomatos are
> now known to be borderline low-acid, and the problem is that
> in a recipie where they survive intact, you can have regions within
> the tomato chunk that the acidification hasn't penetrated.


I've been using a boiling water canning recipe for tomato salsa tested
and published by the USDA:
http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can_sal..._tomatoes.html

I guess I'll have to look in to buying a pressure cooker finally.
That'll be the next question I post on here.

> The more important issue, though, is convenience of the
> recipient. *You may like eating salsa a lot and could maybe
> eat up a quart jar in a week, around here we use salsa only
> for dipping potato chips into, and a pint is a 6 month supply
> for us.
>
> This is why I do most of my jam canning in 1/2
> pint jars. *I have several jam varieties I can. *If I put them in
> pints, I would get tired of that variety before finishing off the
> jar, so I would end up with multiple open jam jars in the
> refrigerator.


Good point. Maybe I'll continuing canning them as pints and keep the
quart jars for some other project.



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Default Canning recipe specifies jar size - dangerous to change?

Deidzoeb wrote:
> On Jul 16, 3:40 am, "Ted Mittelstaedt" > wrote:
>> "Deidzoeb" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>>
>>> I've done some canning with pint and half pint jars. Haven't killed or
>>> sickened anyone yet. Recently a friend gave me a dozen quart size jars
>>> and I'd like to can some salsa in them. Is the jar size one of those
>>> aspects of canning recipes that can be unsafe to change?

>> Without adjusting the process time, yes.
>>
>>> Should I look
>>> for a different salsa recipe that specifies quart jars in the end
>>> step? I really don't want to give anyone botulism for Xmas.

>> Your going to have to correct me if your favorite salsa recipie is
>> different, but most of them I've seen spec tomato chunks. In short,
>> the finished product has significantly sized chunks of tomato in
>> it. ANY of these recipies should be pressure canned regardless
>> of any acidification that the recipie may specify or regardless of
>> any boiling water canning that is specified. Tomatos are
>> now known to be borderline low-acid, and the problem is that
>> in a recipie where they survive intact, you can have regions within
>> the tomato chunk that the acidification hasn't penetrated.

>
> I've been using a boiling water canning recipe for tomato salsa tested
> and published by the USDA:
> http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can_sal..._tomatoes.html
>
> I guess I'll have to look in to buying a pressure cooker finally.
> That'll be the next question I post on here.
>
>> The more important issue, though, is convenience of the
>> recipient. You may like eating salsa a lot and could maybe
>> eat up a quart jar in a week, around here we use salsa only
>> for dipping potato chips into, and a pint is a 6 month supply
>> for us.
>>
>> This is why I do most of my jam canning in 1/2
>> pint jars. I have several jam varieties I can. If I put them in
>> pints, I would get tired of that variety before finishing off the
>> jar, so I would end up with multiple open jam jars in the
>> refrigerator.

>
> Good point. Maybe I'll continuing canning them as pints and keep the
> quart jars for some other project.
>

I use a number of quart jars for storing dry products, oats, bulgar, etc.
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Default Canning recipe specifies jar size - dangerous to change?


"Anny Middon" > wrote in message
...
> "Ted Mittelstaedt" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Your going to have to correct me if your favorite salsa recipie is
> > different, but most of them I've seen spec tomato chunks. In short,
> > the finished product has significantly sized chunks of tomato in
> > it. ANY of these recipies should be pressure canned regardless
> > of any acidification that the recipie may specify or regardless of
> > any boiling water canning that is specified. Tomatos are
> > now known to be borderline low-acid, and the problem is that
> > in a recipie where they survive intact, you can have regions within
> > the tomato chunk that the acidification hasn't penetrated.
> >

>
> I'm going to disagree with you here, Ted. There are salsa recipes that

are
> safe for BWB canning at the NCHFP website, some (most) of which call for
> chopped tomatoes. I can't imagine those folks would leave any recipes up

at
> their site if they weren't sure they were safe.
>


I did not want to get into this but I see that I will have to. The
following
tomato varieties are known to be low acid: Ace, Ace 55VF, Beefmaster Hybrid,
Big Early Hybrid, Big Girl, Big Set, Burpee VF Hybrid, Cal Ace, Delicious,
Fireball, Garden State, Royal Chico, and San Marzano. There are others
as well. The majority of the more traditional home-garden raised tomatos
are not low acid, however.

The USDA recommends pressure canning for tomato products. Their
published recipies ALSO recommend acidification of tomato products
EVEN IF pressure canned. See the following:

http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/publication...n_guide_03.pdf

"...Recommendation: Use of a pressure canner will result in a higher
quality and more nutritious canned tomato products..."

Note that the USDA guide does not recommend -against- BWB
canning of tomato products (like Salsa). They merely recommend
pressure canning instead of BWB canning of tomato products.

In other words, they are going to wait until the jury is in, you might
say.

The entire guide is up he

http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/publication...ions_usda.html

> Think of the tomatoes in salsa as being similar to the cucumber chunks or
> slices in pickles. One-day recipes for pickles call for a significant
> amount of vinegar. So do safe for BWB salsas.


USDA recommends citric acid or lemon juice specifically, instead of
vinegar, because of taste.

The NCHFP site does have a specific blurb about Salsa, they explicitly
exclude low-acid pressure-canned Salsa recipies from their list, and
they also mention that there are other ingredients that must be tested.
Basically they are saying that if your going to go the acidification route,
then while you can reduce Ph with adding acid, not all ingredients are
permeable to the acid that you add, that is why they recommend against
any Salsa recipies they haven't tested the ingredients list on.

Personally I don't understand what the fuss is all about. Pressure canners
are cheap and easy to operate, I have 2 of them both of which cost
less than $10 from Goodwill. (granted, I kept an eye out for them and
it took a while before they showed up) If you pressure can your Salsa
you can use whatever recipie you like, acid or no acid, just as long as
you pressure can it for the time called for, for the longest time ingredient
in it.

Ted


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Default Canning recipe specifies jar size - dangerous to change?

Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:

> Personally I don't understand what the fuss is all about. Pressure canners
> are cheap and easy to operate, I have 2 of them both of which cost
> less than $10 from Goodwill. (granted, I kept an eye out for them and
> it took a while before they showed up) If you pressure can your Salsa
> you can use whatever recipie you like, acid or no acid, just as long as
> you pressure can it for the time called for, for the longest time ingredient
> in it.


Not everywhere. Outside of the U.S. they are hard to find and expensive
to import. Replacment parts are impossible to get except if ordered
from the U.S. which often costs 2 to 3 times the price.

If you happen to be in the U.S. and have the time, money and space, I suggest
that you follow Ted's advice and keep an eye out for pressure canners and
jars at thrift shops. While you are at it, stock on replacement parts if
needed (rings, weights, etc) and single use items such as lids and bands.

While almost all single use jars such as mayo or peanut butter sold here
have gone to plastic bottles, the lids still fit the narrow mouth Mason
type jars. If you remove the paper liners they make great covers. They fit
nicely over the sealed jars protecting the lids from prying fingers
and accidents. If you ask around, you probably can get them for free. :-)

While you are at it, look for Sunbeam mixmasters. They are IMHO still good
mixers and are so cheap that if they break you can throw them out if you
can't get them fixed. The trick is to find bowls, which are often seperated
from the mixers at thrift stores and yard sales.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
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Default Canning recipe specifies jar size - dangerous to change?

"Ted Mittelstaedt" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> I did not want to get into this but I see that I will have to. The
> following
> tomato varieties are known to be low acid: Ace, Ace 55VF, Beefmaster
> Hybrid,
> Big Early Hybrid, Big Girl, Big Set, Burpee VF Hybrid, Cal Ace, Delicious,
> Fireball, Garden State, Royal Chico, and San Marzano. There are others
> as well. The majority of the more traditional home-garden raised tomatos
> are not low acid, however.
>
> The USDA recommends pressure canning for tomato products. Their
> published recipies ALSO recommend acidification of tomato products
> EVEN IF pressure canned. See the following:
>
> http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/publication...n_guide_03.pdf
>
> "...Recommendation: Use of a pressure canner will result in a higher
> quality and more nutritious canned tomato products..."
>


I have seen the publication -- which is available from the NCHFP which I
mentioned in my post.

Note that the reason the publication suggest pressure canning is not a food
safety issue, but based on the quality of the finished product.

> Note that the USDA guide does not recommend -against- BWB
> canning of tomato products (like Salsa). They merely recommend
> pressure canning instead of BWB canning of tomato products.
>
> In other words, they are going to wait until the jury is in, you might
> say.


I don't thing that's what is going on. I think they have found that
pressure canned tomato items are of a higher quality and vitamin content
than BWB processed ones -- not that they are waiting to see if there are
safety problems with the BWB salsa.

>
> The entire guide is up he
>
> http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/publication...ions_usda.html
>
>
> USDA recommends citric acid or lemon juice specifically, instead of
> vinegar, because of taste.


Look at the salsa recipe on page 3-16 of the publication. You will see that
it specifically calls for vinegar.

>
> The NCHFP site does have a specific blurb about Salsa, they explicitly
> exclude low-acid pressure-canned Salsa recipies from their list, and
> they also mention that there are other ingredients that must be tested.
> Basically they are saying that if your going to go the acidification
> route,
> then while you can reduce Ph with adding acid, not all ingredients are
> permeable to the acid that you add, that is why they recommend against
> any Salsa recipies they haven't tested the ingredients list on.


Yes -- but that doesn't mean that the salsa recipes they include are in any
way unsafe.

> Personally I don't understand what the fuss is all about. Pressure
> canners
> are cheap and easy to operate, I have 2 of them both of which cost
> less than $10 from Goodwill. (granted, I kept an eye out for them and
> it took a while before they showed up) If you pressure can your Salsa
> you can use whatever recipie you like, acid or no acid, just as long as
> you pressure can it for the time called for, for the longest time
> ingredient
> in it.


I have a pressure canner, and I use it for low-acid items I can, not
including salsa -- for which I use tested recipes and BWB processing. I
find it so much more of a hassle to use, and the BWB processing so much
easier, that I do BWB whenever it's safe to do so.

In case you are wondering why I find pressure canning to be more of a
hassle, it's primarily related to the amount of time it takes. I fill the
jars, put them in the pressure canner and put on the lid. It takes at least
five minutes (and I'm betting it's more like 10) for the water in the canner
to come to a boil. Then steam has to be expelled -- for my canner, for 7
minutes. The the pressure thingie goes on. Then I have to wait for the
pressure to reach the right level -- another 5 or 10 minutes. Then it's 10
minutes of processing (for tomatoes). Then at least an hour for the canner
to cool down so I can remove the jars.

Total time -- at least an hour and 22 minutes.

I tend to do canning marathon session where I can 3 or 4 products at a time.
When I BWB can I prepare the next item while jars are being processed.
Frequently it's less than half an hour between removing the first set of
jars from the BWB and putting the next set in.

Anny


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Default Canning recipe specifies jar size - dangerous to change?

Deidzoeb wrote:

> I guess I'll have to look in to buying a pressure cooker finally.
> That'll be the next question I post on here.


A pressure *cooker* is different than a pressure *canner.*

I don't think you need to do this with your salsa. That's a tested
recipe you're using.

B/


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Default Canning recipe specifies jar size - dangerous to change?

In article >,
Brian Mailman > wrote:

> Deidzoeb wrote:
>
> > I guess I'll have to look in to buying a pressure cooker finally.
> > That'll be the next question I post on here.

>
> A pressure *cooker* is different than a pressure *canner.*
>
> I don't think you need to do this with your salsa. That's a tested
> recipe you're using.


And speaking of that, I just bought myself one of those Fagor pressure
cooker/canners. It's 10 quart stainless so I can use it as a regular
pot or for small batch steam pressure or BWB canning. You can do 4
pints which is just perfect for some things. I just hate dragging out
the big canner for small batches.

No doubt you all have discussed pressure cooker/canners before.

Isabella
--
"I will show you fear in a handful of dust"
-T.S. Eliot
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Default Canning recipe specifies jar size - dangerous to change?

In article >,
"Anny Middon" > wrote:

> "Ted Mittelstaedt" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > I did not want to get into this but I see that I will have to. The
> > following tomato varieties are known to be low acid: Ace, Ace 55VF,
> > Beefmaster Hybrid, Big Early Hybrid, Big Girl, Big Set, Burpee VF
> > Hybrid, Cal Ace, Delicious, Fireball, Garden State, Royal Chico,
> > and San Marzano. There are others as well. The majority of the
> > more traditional home-garden raised tomatos are not low acid,
> > however.
> >
> > The USDA recommends pressure canning for tomato products. Their
> > published recipies ALSO recommend acidification of tomato products
> > EVEN IF pressure canned. See the following:
> >
> > http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/publication...n_guide_03.pdf
> >
> > "...Recommendation: Use of a pressure canner will result in a higher
> > quality and more nutritious canned tomato products..."

>
> I have seen the publication -- which is available from the NCHFP which I
> mentioned in my post.
>
> Note that the reason the publication suggest pressure canning is not a food
> safety issue, but based on the quality of the finished product.


And here's an abstract from a journal article that suggests there is no
significant difference in any of the quality measures of home-canned
tomatoes:

<http://fcs.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/7/2/108>

Of course, not having seen the entire article, I have no idea how they
define "significant". Frankly, I'm a bit dubious. I have always heard
that pressure canning often results in overcooked, mushy product. So
that is an old wives tale? When you prepare beans, for freezing for
instance, you blanch and then cool them rapidly in ice water. That is
done to improve the quality of the end product. If you let them keep
cooking, they will get mushy. So it's kind of hard to believe that the
quality is going to be the same before and after a 30-60 minute
cool-down time in a hot canner.

> > Note that the USDA guide does not recommend -against- BWB
> > canning of tomato products (like Salsa). They merely recommend
> > pressure canning instead of BWB canning of tomato products.
> >
> > In other words, they are going to wait until the jury is in, you might
> > say.

>
> I don't thing that's what is going on. I think they have found that
> pressure canned tomato items are of a higher quality and vitamin content
> than BWB processed ones -- not that they are waiting to see if there are
> safety problems with the BWB salsa.
>
> > The entire guide is up he
> >
> > http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/publication...ions_usda.html
> >
> > USDA recommends citric acid or lemon juice specifically, instead of
> > vinegar, because of taste.

>
> Look at the salsa recipe on page 3-16 of the publication. You will see that
> it specifically calls for vinegar.
> >
> > The NCHFP site does have a specific blurb about Salsa, they
> > explicitly exclude low-acid pressure-canned Salsa recipies from
> > their list, and they also mention that there are other ingredients
> > that must be tested. Basically they are saying that if your going
> > to go the acidification route, then while you can reduce Ph with
> > adding acid, not all ingredients are permeable to the acid that you
> > add, that is why they recommend against any Salsa recipies they
> > haven't tested the ingredients list on.

>
> Yes -- but that doesn't mean that the salsa recipes they include are in any
> way unsafe.
>
> > Personally I don't understand what the fuss is all about. Pressure
> > canners are cheap and easy to operate, I have 2 of them both of
> > which cost less than $10 from Goodwill. (granted, I kept an eye
> > out for them and it took a while before they showed up) If you
> > pressure can your Salsa you can use whatever recipie you like, acid
> > or no acid, just as long as you pressure can it for the time called
> > for, for the longest time ingredient in it.

>
> I have a pressure canner, and I use it for low-acid items I can, not
> including salsa -- for which I use tested recipes and BWB processing. I
> find it so much more of a hassle to use, and the BWB processing so much
> easier, that I do BWB whenever it's safe to do so.
>
> In case you are wondering why I find pressure canning to be more of a
> hassle, it's primarily related to the amount of time it takes. I fill the
> jars, put them in the pressure canner and put on the lid. It takes at least
> five minutes (and I'm betting it's more like 10) for the water in the canner
> to come to a boil. Then steam has to be expelled -- for my canner, for 7
> minutes. The the pressure thingie goes on. Then I have to wait for the
> pressure to reach the right level -- another 5 or 10 minutes. Then it's 10
> minutes of processing (for tomatoes). Then at least an hour for the canner
> to cool down so I can remove the jars.
>
> Total time -- at least an hour and 22 minutes.
>
> I tend to do canning marathon session where I can 3 or 4 products at a time.
> When I BWB can I prepare the next item while jars are being processed.
> Frequently it's less than half an hour between removing the first set of
> jars from the BWB and putting the next set in.


Though I have done very little pressure canning, my experience, for the
few times I've done it, is similar to yours. When pressure canning, you
can't use a quick release mechanism or hold the pot under cold water
like you do for pressure cooking. It just has to sit there until the
pressure comes down on its own. That is a lot of time all right---
unless you have 2 or 3 pressure canners, a huge kitchen, and don't mind
fooling with multiple gauges or weights, not to speak of all the storage
room required. I don't think the people who wrote the article I cited
included this cool-down time in their calculations.

OTOH, it does take more energy to boil the huge amount of water
necessary for a BWB canner. But, if you are going to be processing
sequential batches, that would save some of that energy.

Isabella
--
"I will show you fear in a handful of dust"
-T.S. Eliot
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Default Canning recipe specifies jar size - dangerous to change?

Isabella Woodhouse wrote:
> In article >,
> "Anny Middon" > wrote:
>
>> "Ted Mittelstaedt" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> I did not want to get into this but I see that I will have to. The
>>> following tomato varieties are known to be low acid: Ace, Ace 55VF,
>>> Beefmaster Hybrid, Big Early Hybrid, Big Girl, Big Set, Burpee VF
>>> Hybrid, Cal Ace, Delicious, Fireball, Garden State, Royal Chico,
>>> and San Marzano. There are others as well. The majority of the
>>> more traditional home-garden raised tomatos are not low acid,
>>> however.
>>>
>>> The USDA recommends pressure canning for tomato products. Their
>>> published recipies ALSO recommend acidification of tomato products
>>> EVEN IF pressure canned. See the following:
>>>
>>> http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/publication...n_guide_03.pdf
>>>
>>> "...Recommendation: Use of a pressure canner will result in a higher
>>> quality and more nutritious canned tomato products..."

>> I have seen the publication -- which is available from the NCHFP which I
>> mentioned in my post.
>>
>> Note that the reason the publication suggest pressure canning is not a food
>> safety issue, but based on the quality of the finished product.

>
> And here's an abstract from a journal article that suggests there is no
> significant difference in any of the quality measures of home-canned
> tomatoes:
>
> <http://fcs.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/7/2/108>
>
> Of course, not having seen the entire article, I have no idea how they
> define "significant". Frankly, I'm a bit dubious. I have always heard
> that pressure canning often results in overcooked, mushy product. So
> that is an old wives tale? When you prepare beans, for freezing for
> instance, you blanch and then cool them rapidly in ice water. That is
> done to improve the quality of the end product. If you let them keep
> cooking, they will get mushy. So it's kind of hard to believe that the
> quality is going to be the same before and after a 30-60 minute
> cool-down time in a hot canner.
>
>>> Note that the USDA guide does not recommend -against- BWB
>>> canning of tomato products (like Salsa). They merely recommend
>>> pressure canning instead of BWB canning of tomato products.
>>>
>>> In other words, they are going to wait until the jury is in, you might
>>> say.

>> I don't thing that's what is going on. I think they have found that
>> pressure canned tomato items are of a higher quality and vitamin content
>> than BWB processed ones -- not that they are waiting to see if there are
>> safety problems with the BWB salsa.
>>
>>> The entire guide is up he
>>>
>>> http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/publication...ions_usda.html
>>>
>>> USDA recommends citric acid or lemon juice specifically, instead of
>>> vinegar, because of taste.

>> Look at the salsa recipe on page 3-16 of the publication. You will see that
>> it specifically calls for vinegar.
>>> The NCHFP site does have a specific blurb about Salsa, they
>>> explicitly exclude low-acid pressure-canned Salsa recipies from
>>> their list, and they also mention that there are other ingredients
>>> that must be tested. Basically they are saying that if your going
>>> to go the acidification route, then while you can reduce Ph with
>>> adding acid, not all ingredients are permeable to the acid that you
>>> add, that is why they recommend against any Salsa recipies they
>>> haven't tested the ingredients list on.

>> Yes -- but that doesn't mean that the salsa recipes they include are in any
>> way unsafe.
>>
>>> Personally I don't understand what the fuss is all about. Pressure
>>> canners are cheap and easy to operate, I have 2 of them both of
>>> which cost less than $10 from Goodwill. (granted, I kept an eye
>>> out for them and it took a while before they showed up) If you
>>> pressure can your Salsa you can use whatever recipie you like, acid
>>> or no acid, just as long as you pressure can it for the time called
>>> for, for the longest time ingredient in it.

>> I have a pressure canner, and I use it for low-acid items I can, not
>> including salsa -- for which I use tested recipes and BWB processing. I
>> find it so much more of a hassle to use, and the BWB processing so much
>> easier, that I do BWB whenever it's safe to do so.
>>
>> In case you are wondering why I find pressure canning to be more of a
>> hassle, it's primarily related to the amount of time it takes. I fill the
>> jars, put them in the pressure canner and put on the lid. It takes at least
>> five minutes (and I'm betting it's more like 10) for the water in the canner
>> to come to a boil. Then steam has to be expelled -- for my canner, for 7
>> minutes. The the pressure thingie goes on. Then I have to wait for the
>> pressure to reach the right level -- another 5 or 10 minutes. Then it's 10
>> minutes of processing (for tomatoes). Then at least an hour for the canner
>> to cool down so I can remove the jars.
>>
>> Total time -- at least an hour and 22 minutes.
>>
>> I tend to do canning marathon session where I can 3 or 4 products at a time.
>> When I BWB can I prepare the next item while jars are being processed.
>> Frequently it's less than half an hour between removing the first set of
>> jars from the BWB and putting the next set in.

>
> Though I have done very little pressure canning, my experience, for the
> few times I've done it, is similar to yours. When pressure canning, you
> can't use a quick release mechanism or hold the pot under cold water
> like you do for pressure cooking. It just has to sit there until the
> pressure comes down on its own. That is a lot of time all right---
> unless you have 2 or 3 pressure canners, a huge kitchen, and don't mind
> fooling with multiple gauges or weights, not to speak of all the storage
> room required. I don't think the people who wrote the article I cited
> included this cool-down time in their calculations.
>
> OTOH, it does take more energy to boil the huge amount of water
> necessary for a BWB canner. But, if you are going to be processing
> sequential batches, that would save some of that energy.
>
> Isabella

Hokay, I'll chime in here. I've been pressure canning for more than 40
years, most of it with the same eighteen-quart canner. Mine is the one
with the gauge that reads the pressure but it also has a jiggler.

Once I turn the heat off the pressure starts to drop and, within twenty
minutes or less, the gauge reads zero. At that stage you can remove the
top. At that point I do something our old home ec agent in Texas taught
us, toss a tea towel over the top and let it sit five more minutes. Once
that's done I lift the rack out, set the rack and jars on a folded towel
and let them cook to room temperature. It is generally recommended that
you let them sit for 24 hours before moving them around to ensure the
entire mass is cool. I've never had a jar fail to seal in the pressure
canner, never had the jar contents go bad (we eat it all up pretty quick
anyway), and, for certain items I prefer canned to frozen. Ie, green
beans, or shelled beans of any kind. Soups, soup stocks, broths, etc.
all get canned to save freezer room for important stuff like vacuum
sealed steaks, roasts, fish, etc.

Sure, pressure canning is a PITA but you get a safer, more convenient
food that will last up to a year or more in a cool place out of direct
sunlight - my pantry.

It's certainly no more difficult or lengthy than messing around with jam
pots, boiling jars for 5, 10, 20 minutes, etc. I quite BWBing tomatoes
twenty years ago when I became uncertain as to the acidity of the fruit.
If I get enough to can I pressure can them.

Oh yeah, none of the food I can has ever become mushy from the canning. YMMV

George

Father Inquisitor, HOSSPOJ
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Default Canning recipe specifies jar size - dangerous to change?

On Jul 17, 4:44*am, "Ted Mittelstaedt" > wrote:
> "Anny Middon" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Ted Mittelstaedt" > wrote in message
> ...

>
> > > Your going to have to correct me if your favorite salsa recipie is
> > > different, but most of them I've seen spec tomato chunks. *In short,
> > > the finished product has significantly sized chunks of tomato in
> > > it. *ANY of these recipies should be pressure canned regardless
> > > of any acidification that the recipie may specify or regardless of
> > > any boiling water canning that is specified. *Tomatos are
> > > now known to be borderline low-acid, and the problem is that
> > > in a recipie where they survive intact, you can have regions within
> > > the tomato chunk that the acidification hasn't penetrated.

>
> > I'm going to disagree with you here, Ted. *There are salsa recipes that

> are
> > safe for BWB canning at the NCHFP website, some (most) of which call for
> > chopped tomatoes. *I can't imagine those folks would leave any recipes up

> at
> > their site if they weren't sure they were safe.

>
> I did not want to get into this but I see that I will have to. *The
> following
> tomato varieties are known to be low acid: Ace, Ace 55VF, Beefmaster Hybrid,
> Big Early Hybrid, Big Girl, Big Set, Burpee VF Hybrid, Cal Ace, Delicious,
> Fireball, Garden State, Royal Chico, and San Marzano. There are others
> as well. *The majority of the more traditional home-garden raised tomatos
> are not low acid, however.
>
> The USDA recommends pressure canning for tomato products. *Their
> published recipies ALSO recommend acidification of tomato products
> EVEN IF pressure canned. *See the following:
>
> http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/publication...n_guide_03.pdf
>
> "...Recommendation: *Use of a pressure canner will result in a higher
> quality and more nutritious canned tomato products..."
>
> Note that the USDA guide does not recommend -against- BWB
> canning of tomato products (like Salsa). *They merely recommend
> pressure canning instead of BWB canning of tomato products.
>
> In other words, they are going to wait until the jury is in, you might
> say.
>
> The entire guide is up he
>
> http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/publication...ions_usda.html
>
> > Think of the tomatoes in salsa as being similar to the cucumber chunks or
> > slices in pickles. *One-day recipes for pickles call for a significant
> > amount of vinegar. *So do safe for BWB salsas.

>
> USDA recommends citric acid or lemon juice specifically, instead of
> vinegar, because of taste.
>
> The NCHFP site does have a specific blurb about Salsa, they explicitly
> exclude low-acid pressure-canned Salsa recipies from their list, and
> they also mention that there are other ingredients that must be tested.
> Basically they are saying that if your going to go the acidification route,
> then while you can reduce Ph with adding acid, not all ingredients are
> permeable to the acid that you add, that is why they recommend against
> any Salsa recipies they haven't tested the ingredients list on.
>
> Personally I don't understand what the fuss is all about. *Pressure canners
> are cheap and easy to operate, I have 2 of them both of which cost
> less than $10 from Goodwill. *(granted, I kept an eye out for them and
> it took a while before they showed up) *If you pressure can your Salsa
> you can use whatever recipie you like, acid or no acid, just as long as
> you pressure can it for the time called for, for the longest time ingredient
> in it.


I decided not to buy a new pressure cooker because they're too
expensive and not very large. I'll keep an eye out for old ones at
Goodwill.
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Default Canning recipe specifies jar size - dangerous to change?

In article >,
George Shirley > wrote:

> Hokay, I'll chime in here. I've been pressure canning for more than 40
> years, most of it with the same eighteen-quart canner. Mine is the one
> with the gauge that reads the pressure but it also has a jiggler.


I'm so glad you posted--- thank you. While I've done a lot of
canning and preserving, I have only little experience (a few years ago)
with pressure canning and, basically, what I recall is that BWB seemed
so much easier and less time-consuming than pressure canning. OTOH, I
was horribly sick at the time (celiac) but now, after recovering for a
couple years, I am very much better and getting back into my groove
again. So I need to relearn the process I guess.

We're all electric, no gas service at all. I have a glass-top range and
I do recall that adjusting the pressure was difficult. I may well have
heated on too high a range setting and then overcorrected to bring down
the pressure. I recall doing peaches (halves) and that the jars lost
half their liquid so I had to just open them all. Never had anything
like that happen with BWB. The canner is a Presto with a dial gauge.

We have an outdoor grill with a 15,000 BTU side burner so I was thinking
maybe I could try using that for pressure canning. But, since it gets
pretty hot here and it's very sunny out there, it would likely take a
lot longer for the canner to cool down out there unless I got it into
the house. But I fear that would be way too much moving around. Right?

> Once I turn the heat off the pressure starts to drop and, within twenty
> minutes or less, the gauge reads zero. At that stage you can remove the
> top. At that point I do something our old home ec agent in Texas taught
> us, toss a tea towel over the top and let it sit five more minutes.


If I may ask, what is the purpose of the towel?

> ...Once that's done I lift the rack out, set the rack and jars on a
> folded towel and let them cook to room temperature. It is generally
> recommended that you let them sit for 24 hours before moving them
> around to ensure the entire mass is cool.


My canner only has a plate with holes on the bottom--- no lift-out rack.
In the past, all our BWB canners had a rack that held all the jars and
you would lift the entire thing out. I was worried about the jars
falling into each other and rattling around. I wondered if maybe that
was why my peaches did not turn out. It was disconcerting.

> ...I've never had a jar fail to seal in the pressure canner, never
> had the jar contents go bad (we eat it all up pretty quick anyway),
> and, for certain items I prefer canned to frozen. Ie, green beans, or
> shelled beans of any kind. Soups, soup stocks, broths, etc. all get
> canned to save freezer room for important stuff like vacuum sealed
> steaks, roasts, fish, etc.


I've been very fortunate with BWB canning. But it would be nice to feel
even more secure and be able to can a greater variety of things. My
chicken broth takes up entirely too much freezer space, for instance.

> Sure, pressure canning is a PITA but you get a safer, more convenient
> food that will last up to a year or more in a cool place out of direct
> sunlight - my pantry.
>
> It's certainly no more difficult or lengthy than messing around with jam
> pots, boiling jars for 5, 10, 20 minutes, etc. I quite BWBing tomatoes
> twenty years ago when I became uncertain as to the acidity of the fruit.
> If I get enough to can I pressure can them.
>
> Oh yeah, none of the food I can has ever become mushy from the canning. YMMV


Well that is certainly good to know. BTW, since I started freezing my
green beans on cookie sheets and then vacuum sealing them, they are just
ever so much better than the old way of packing them into boxes. The
only shell beans we get from the garden are black-eyed peas. And we
gobble all those up fresh so there's never any left to preserve.

Isabella
--
"I will show you fear in a handful of dust"
-T.S. Eliot


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Default Canning recipe specifies jar size - dangerous to change?

Isabella Woodhouse wrote:
> In article >,
> George Shirley > wrote:
>
>> Hokay, I'll chime in here. I've been pressure canning for more than 40
>> years, most of it with the same eighteen-quart canner. Mine is the one
>> with the gauge that reads the pressure but it also has a jiggler.

>
> I'm so glad you posted--- thank you. While I've done a lot of
> canning and preserving, I have only little experience (a few years ago)
> with pressure canning and, basically, what I recall is that BWB seemed
> so much easier and less time-consuming than pressure canning. OTOH, I
> was horribly sick at the time (celiac) but now, after recovering for a
> couple years, I am very much better and getting back into my groove
> again. So I need to relearn the process I guess.
>
> We're all electric, no gas service at all. I have a glass-top range and
> I do recall that adjusting the pressure was difficult. I may well have
> heated on too high a range setting and then overcorrected to bring down
> the pressure. I recall doing peaches (halves) and that the jars lost
> half their liquid so I had to just open them all. Never had anything
> like that happen with BWB. The canner is a Presto with a dial gauge.

Many glass-top ranges have a prohibition for canning pots, just too
heavy for them. The process of over correcting that you described can
cause liquid loss. The idea is to have a smooth, steady climb to desired
pressure and to start cutting back the heat a little ahead of time.
>
> We have an outdoor grill with a 15,000 BTU side burner so I was thinking
> maybe I could try using that for pressure canning. But, since it gets
> pretty hot here and it's very sunny out there, it would likely take a
> lot longer for the canner to cool down out there unless I got it into
> the house. But I fear that would be way too much moving around. Right?

If you can move the grill into a shady spot (that's what I do with mine)
then I wouldn't worry too much about moving the canner into the house.
It's best to NOT do too much moving of the pot until it has cooled down.
I think some of the canners on this newsgroup do use propane stoves
outdoors to do the work, maybe some will chime in.
>
>> Once I turn the heat off the pressure starts to drop and, within twenty
>> minutes or less, the gauge reads zero. At that stage you can remove the
>> top. At that point I do something our old home ec agent in Texas taught
>> us, toss a tea towel over the top and let it sit five more minutes.

>
> If I may ask, what is the purpose of the towel?

The home extension agent says it helps to control last minute liquid
loss by keeping the canner from venting too much heat at the last
minute. I just started doing it years ago and it seems to work.
>
>> ...Once that's done I lift the rack out, set the rack and jars on a
>> folded towel and let them cook to room temperature. It is generally
>> recommended that you let them sit for 24 hours before moving them
>> around to ensure the entire mass is cool.

>
> My canner only has a plate with holes on the bottom--- no lift-out rack.
> In the past, all our BWB canners had a rack that held all the jars and
> you would lift the entire thing out. I was worried about the jars
> falling into each other and rattling around. I wondered if maybe that
> was why my peaches did not turn out. It was disconcerting.

I wouldn't think that's why the peaches didn't turn out, sounds like
what we were discussing earlier. Some canners, pressure or BWB, have
flat racks, some have lift out racks. Most usually I just lift my jars
out with a jar lifter, very carefully, and set them on the folded towel
to cool naturally. I wouldn't worry too much about the plate instead of
a rack.
>
>> ...I've never had a jar fail to seal in the pressure canner, never
>> had the jar contents go bad (we eat it all up pretty quick anyway),
>> and, for certain items I prefer canned to frozen. Ie, green beans, or
>> shelled beans of any kind. Soups, soup stocks, broths, etc. all get
>> canned to save freezer room for important stuff like vacuum sealed
>> steaks, roasts, fish, etc.

>
> I've been very fortunate with BWB canning. But it would be nice to feel
> even more secure and be able to can a greater variety of things. My
> chicken broth takes up entirely too much freezer space, for instance.

Yeah, I've got a couple of gallons of chicken broth in the freezer right
now and it's not even soup weather. You can always use the pressure
canner but take your time, do each step properly, watch the pressure
gauge and keep the heat and pressure about right. When we had an
electric stove I learned just when to cut the heat control back to
control the pressure, you can too. Once you learn you can do it right it
builds your self-confidence and it becomes easier. I had to learn how to
control the heat all over again when we got the gas stove. NOTE: do have
your pressure gauge tested annually for accuracy, some state extension
services can have this done for you at a nominal fee. I'm lucky in that
this is a heavy industry area and there's a gauge shop just down the
road a bit. They do mine for free.
>
>> Sure, pressure canning is a PITA but you get a safer, more convenient
>> food that will last up to a year or more in a cool place out of direct
>> sunlight - my pantry.
>>
>> It's certainly no more difficult or lengthy than messing around with jam
>> pots, boiling jars for 5, 10, 20 minutes, etc. I quite BWBing tomatoes
>> twenty years ago when I became uncertain as to the acidity of the fruit.
>> If I get enough to can I pressure can them.
>>
>> Oh yeah, none of the food I can has ever become mushy from the canning. YMMV

>
> Well that is certainly good to know. BTW, since I started freezing my
> green beans on cookie sheets and then vacuum sealing them, they are just
> ever so much better than the old way of packing them into boxes. The
> only shell beans we get from the garden are black-eyed peas. And we
> gobble all those up fresh so there's never any left to preserve.
>
> Isabella


I haven't tried the green beans that way since we have a small freezer.
Last year I pressure canned more than forty pint jars of green beans.
One pint is just right for a meal for the two of us. Good luck with your
canning and you can always come back to this crew and ask questions.

George
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Default Canning recipe specifies jar size - dangerous to change?

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 07:26:27 -0500, George Shirley
> wrote:

>Isabella Woodhouse wrote:
>> In article >,
>> George Shirley > wrote:
>>
>>> Hokay, I'll chime in here. I've been pressure canning for more than 40
>>> years, most of it with the same eighteen-quart canner. Mine is the one
>>> with the gauge that reads the pressure but it also has a jiggler.

>>
>> I'm so glad you posted--- thank you. While I've done a lot of
>> canning and preserving, I have only little experience (a few years ago)
>> with pressure canning and, basically, what I recall is that BWB seemed
>> so much easier and less time-consuming than pressure canning. OTOH, I
>> was horribly sick at the time (celiac) but now, after recovering for a
>> couple years, I am very much better and getting back into my groove
>> again. So I need to relearn the process I guess.
>>
>> We're all electric, no gas service at all. I have a glass-top range and
>> I do recall that adjusting the pressure was difficult. I may well have
>> heated on too high a range setting and then overcorrected to bring down
>> the pressure. I recall doing peaches (halves) and that the jars lost
>> half their liquid so I had to just open them all. Never had anything
>> like that happen with BWB. The canner is a Presto with a dial gauge.

>Many glass-top ranges have a prohibition for canning pots, just too
>heavy for them. The process of over correcting that you described can
>cause liquid loss. The idea is to have a smooth, steady climb to desired
>pressure and to start cutting back the heat a little ahead of time.
>>
>> We have an outdoor grill with a 15,000 BTU side burner so I was thinking
>> maybe I could try using that for pressure canning. But, since it gets
>> pretty hot here and it's very sunny out there, it would likely take a
>> lot longer for the canner to cool down out there unless I got it into
>> the house. But I fear that would be way too much moving around. Right?

>If you can move the grill into a shady spot (that's what I do with mine)
>then I wouldn't worry too much about moving the canner into the house.
>It's best to NOT do too much moving of the pot until it has cooled down.
>I think some of the canners on this newsgroup do use propane stoves
>outdoors to do the work, maybe some will chime in.
>>
>>> Once I turn the heat off the pressure starts to drop and, within twenty
>>> minutes or less, the gauge reads zero. At that stage you can remove the
>>> top. At that point I do something our old home ec agent in Texas taught
>>> us, toss a tea towel over the top and let it sit five more minutes.

>>
>> If I may ask, what is the purpose of the towel?

>The home extension agent says it helps to control last minute liquid
>loss by keeping the canner from venting too much heat at the last
>minute. I just started doing it years ago and it seems to work.
>>
>>> ...Once that's done I lift the rack out, set the rack and jars on a
>>> folded towel and let them cook to room temperature. It is generally
>>> recommended that you let them sit for 24 hours before moving them
>>> around to ensure the entire mass is cool.

>>
>> My canner only has a plate with holes on the bottom--- no lift-out rack.
>> In the past, all our BWB canners had a rack that held all the jars and
>> you would lift the entire thing out. I was worried about the jars
>> falling into each other and rattling around. I wondered if maybe that
>> was why my peaches did not turn out. It was disconcerting.

>I wouldn't think that's why the peaches didn't turn out, sounds like
>what we were discussing earlier. Some canners, pressure or BWB, have
>flat racks, some have lift out racks. Most usually I just lift my jars
>out with a jar lifter, very carefully, and set them on the folded towel
>to cool naturally. I wouldn't worry too much about the plate instead of
>a rack.
>>
>>> ...I've never had a jar fail to seal in the pressure canner, never
>>> had the jar contents go bad (we eat it all up pretty quick anyway),
>>> and, for certain items I prefer canned to frozen. Ie, green beans, or
>>> shelled beans of any kind. Soups, soup stocks, broths, etc. all get
>>> canned to save freezer room for important stuff like vacuum sealed
>>> steaks, roasts, fish, etc.

>>
>> I've been very fortunate with BWB canning. But it would be nice to feel
>> even more secure and be able to can a greater variety of things. My
>> chicken broth takes up entirely too much freezer space, for instance.

>Yeah, I've got a couple of gallons of chicken broth in the freezer right
>now and it's not even soup weather. You can always use the pressure
>canner but take your time, do each step properly, watch the pressure
>gauge and keep the heat and pressure about right. When we had an
>electric stove I learned just when to cut the heat control back to
>control the pressure, you can too. Once you learn you can do it right it
>builds your self-confidence and it becomes easier. I had to learn how to
>control the heat all over again when we got the gas stove. NOTE: do have
>your pressure gauge tested annually for accuracy, some state extension
>services can have this done for you at a nominal fee. I'm lucky in that
>this is a heavy industry area and there's a gauge shop just down the
>road a bit. They do mine for free.
>>
>>> Sure, pressure canning is a PITA but you get a safer, more convenient
>>> food that will last up to a year or more in a cool place out of direct
>>> sunlight - my pantry.
>>>
>>> It's certainly no more difficult or lengthy than messing around with jam
>>> pots, boiling jars for 5, 10, 20 minutes, etc. I quite BWBing tomatoes
>>> twenty years ago when I became uncertain as to the acidity of the fruit.
>>> If I get enough to can I pressure can them.
>>>
>>> Oh yeah, none of the food I can has ever become mushy from the canning. YMMV

>>
>> Well that is certainly good to know. BTW, since I started freezing my
>> green beans on cookie sheets and then vacuum sealing them, they are just
>> ever so much better than the old way of packing them into boxes. The
>> only shell beans we get from the garden are black-eyed peas. And we
>> gobble all those up fresh so there's never any left to preserve.
>>
>> Isabella

>
>I haven't tried the green beans that way since we have a small freezer.
>Last year I pressure canned more than forty pint jars of green beans.
>One pint is just right for a meal for the two of us. Good luck with your
>canning and you can always come back to this crew and ask questions.
>
>George



George is correct. I will add :

If you want to use your glass top stove, check your manual or
call the manufacturer to see if it is OK. I have a fairly new GE
glass top and it works great. I have very good luck with pressure or
BWB canning with it.
Once you have your produce ready to start processing, get
everyone out of the kitchen. Do not answer the phone.
Make sure you have the correct recipe.
Read it all the way through several times, trying to see
yourself performing the task. I do this even if I canned the same
thing last week. It is easy (for me) to confuse one recipe with
another.
While you are reading for the 3rd or 4th time, start getting
your equipment together. Make sure you have everything at hand. There
is nothing worse that needing a piece of equipment "right now" and not
being able to find it.
Do not leave the kitchen until the stove has been turned off!
I have been known to turn the electric stove off at night and go to
bed. Everything is just fine. If I am still in the kitchen after I
turn the stove off, I wait until the pressure comes down, open the
safety control valve and unlock the top. I leave the top on for a
while as the food cools down some.
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Default Canning recipe specifies jar size - dangerous to change?

"George Shirley" > wrote in message
...
Clipped for brevity...
>>
>> Isabella

> Hokay, I'll chime in here. I've been pressure canning for more than 40
> years, most of it with the same eighteen-quart canner. Mine is the one
> with the gauge that reads the pressure but it also has a jiggler.
>
> Once I turn the heat off the pressure starts to drop and, within twenty
> minutes or less, the gauge reads zero. At that stage you can remove the
> top. At that point I do something our old home ec agent in Texas taught
> us, toss a tea towel over the top and let it sit five more minutes. Once
> that's done I lift the rack out, set the rack and jars on a folded towel
> and let them cook to room temperature. It is generally recommended that
> you let them sit for 24 hours before moving them around to ensure the
> entire mass is cool. I've never had a jar fail to seal in the pressure
> canner, never had the jar contents go bad (we eat it all up pretty quick
> anyway), and, for certain items I prefer canned to frozen. Ie, green
> beans, or shelled beans of any kind. Soups, soup stocks, broths, etc. all
> get canned to save freezer room for important stuff like vacuum sealed
> steaks, roasts, fish, etc.
>
> Sure, pressure canning is a PITA but you get a safer, more convenient food
> that will last up to a year or more in a cool place out of direct
> sunlight - my pantry.
>
> It's certainly no more difficult or lengthy than messing around with jam
> pots, boiling jars for 5, 10, 20 minutes, etc. I quite BWBing tomatoes
> twenty years ago when I became uncertain as to the acidity of the fruit.
> If I get enough to can I pressure can them.
>
> Oh yeah, none of the food I can has ever become mushy from the canning.
> YMMV
>
> George
> Father Inquisitor, HOSSPOJ


I'm glad to read of your experience George. I had the same questions. I've
canned a lot of salsa and not be perfectly content with the texture, but I'm
thinking it may have more to do with the varietal and the prep than anything
else. Salsa is a good place to use lime (which is a bit sourer than lemon
juice and more flavorsome than vinegar). (Generally speaking of course. My
auntie in California raised lemons so sweet one could nearly eatm' raw. And
my gawd, the fragrance.) I did find out that I like the peppers (and
tomatoes for that matter) roasted a bit, but a little of that smoke goes a
long way.
As for jars, I use tested recipes, except once. I put jam in pint jars and
added 10' bwb time. At 4,000 ft altitude.
Edrena
Edrena



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Default Canning recipe specifies jar size - dangerous to change?

"Isabella Woodhouse" > wrote in message
...

> No doubt you all have discussed pressure cooker/canners before.
>
> Isabella


(Blushin' and winkin') rilly, dahling, it's our favorite subject!
Edrena, faithful disciple of St. Vinaigrette, Holy Order of the Sacred
Sisters & Brothers of St. Pectina of Jella (HOSS&BSPJ)


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Default Canning recipe specifies jar size - dangerous to change?

"George Shirley" > wrote in message
...
> Hokay, I'll chime in here. I've been pressure canning for more than 40
> years, most of it with the same eighteen-quart canner. Mine is the one
> with the gauge that reads the pressure but it also has a jiggler.


That's the kind I have, too.

> Once I turn the heat off the pressure starts to drop and, within twenty
> minutes or less, the gauge reads zero. At that stage you can remove the
> top. At that point I do something our old home ec agent in Texas taught
> us, toss a tea towel over the top and let it sit five more minutes. Once
> that's done I lift the rack out, set the rack and jars on a folded towel
> and let them cook to room temperature. It is generally recommended that
> you let them sit for 24 hours before moving them around to ensure the
> entire mass is cool. I've never had a jar fail to seal in the pressure
> canner, never had the jar contents go bad (we eat it all up pretty quick
> anyway), and, for certain items I prefer canned to frozen. Ie, green
> beans, or shelled beans of any kind. Soups, soup stocks, broths, etc. all
> get canned to save freezer room for important stuff like vacuum sealed
> steaks, roasts, fish, etc.


My canner takes way more than 20 minutes to cool down. The manual that came
with it suggests waiting at least an hour. I haven't timed it, but I
suspect it takes at least 40 minutes (and sometimes more) to come down to
zero.

I too like to can broths and soups, and of course I pressure can them. I've
made stews and taco filling and sloppy joes and beef-in-red-wine. All were
delicious and of course pressure-canned.

But if I have the option of BWB canning, I take it. It takes a lot less
time, particularly if I'm canning more than one thing. For example,
yesterday I started canning at about 5:00 PM. I made Grandma's Dill Pickles
(a two-day recipe that I had started the day before). As I was waiting for
the water in the canner to come to a boil to sterilize the jars, I started
processing the tomatoes for salsa. While boiling and simmering the brine
solution for the pickles, I finished the tomatoes. When the pickles were in
the canner, I cut up the peppers, and finished the salsa mix shortly after
the pickles came out of the canner. While the salsa (recipe from the USDA
guide) was coming to a boil, I washed the jars for it and put them in the
canner to heat. While the salsa was in the canner, I mixed up the cherries
(which I'd pitted earlier in the day) with the blueberries, lemon juice and
sugar for Summer Solstice Preserves. If I hadn't taken an hour off in the
midst of this to call my DH who is out of town, I would have finished all
this by 10:00.

I have found that I can't realistically can more than one item in an evening
if I'm pressure canning. Even if the processing time itself is pretty
short, it takes considerable time to vent the steam and then bring the
canner up to pressure. And then of course there's the cool-down time.

>
> Sure, pressure canning is a PITA but you get a safer, more convenient food
> that will last up to a year or more in a cool place out of direct
> sunlight - my pantry.


Safer and more convenient than BWB processed foods?

> It's certainly no more difficult or lengthy than messing around with jam
> pots, boiling jars for 5, 10, 20 minutes, etc. I quite BWBing tomatoes
> twenty years ago when I became uncertain as to the acidity of the fruit.
> If I get enough to can I pressure can them.


I add the recommended amount of lemon juice to my tomatoes to be sure they
are acid enough. And (repeating myself) IME pressure canning is a more
lengthy process than BWB canning, especially if you multi-task. It does
take a lot longer for the big pot of water to come to a boil, but I start it
going first thing, before I start prepping the food to be canned.

Take tomatoes, for instance. USDA says pints need 15 minutes at 10lb
pressure, or 35 minutes in BWB. Since the water is already boiling when I
put the jars in the BWB, it takes only a few minutes (usually less than 5)
for the canner with the hot-packed tomatoes to come back to a boil. Then
boil for 35 minutes. Lately I've been following the recommendation in the
Ball big guide to turn the heat off and let the jars sit in the canner with
the lid off for 5 minutes. So total time from when the jars go in till when
I take them out is 45 minutes.

With the pressure canner, there is at least a 5-minute period waiting for
the water in the canner to come to a boil enough to start sending out steam.
Then the steam needs to be vented for about 10 minutes. Then it's another
few minutes -- 5 or so -- for the canner to come up to pressure. Then I
start timing the 15 minutes of processing time. After that, the canner must
cool down. Even with the 20 minute cool-down you experience, the total time
between putting the jars in and removing them is 55 minutes.

> Oh yeah, none of the food I can has ever become mushy from the canning.
> YMMV


Me, either. Well, except for the things that by their nature are going to
be mushy -- you'll never get canned green beans to be crisp-tender as you
can with frozen ones.

Anny




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Default Canning recipe specifies jar size - dangerous to change?


My responses are below but I just wanted to take a moment and thank you
George and all you other very kind and knowledgeable people for taking
the time to help me. So few people anymore seem to appreciate the
merits of preserving your own food. I've had people look at me like I
was stark raving mad when I told them I was canning. Yet I have such
fond memories of helping my grandmother can, make jam, etc. To me,
there are few things more satisfying than hearing those little pings as
my jars seal.

In article >,
George Shirley > wrote:

> Isabella Woodhouse wrote:

[...]
> > We're all electric, no gas service at all. I have a glass-top range and
> > I do recall that adjusting the pressure was difficult. I may well have
> > heated on too high a range setting and then overcorrected to bring down
> > the pressure. I recall doing peaches (halves) and that the jars lost
> > half their liquid so I had to just open them all. Never had anything
> > like that happen with BWB. The canner is a Presto with a dial gauge.


> Many glass-top ranges have a prohibition for canning pots, just too
> heavy for them. The process of over correcting that you described can
> cause liquid loss. The idea is to have a smooth, steady climb to desired
> pressure and to start cutting back the heat a little ahead of time.


Yes, I did read all the range instructions and it does explicitly say
that canning is all right as long as the canner is a perfect flat
bottom. So my suspicions were on target regarding overcorrecting the
heat. Do you have any suggestions as to what might be better to
practice on? Are some things easier to pressure can than other things?

> > We have an outdoor grill with a 15,000 BTU side burner so I was thinking
> > maybe I could try using that for pressure canning. But, since it gets
> > pretty hot here and it's very sunny out there, it would likely take a
> > lot longer for the canner to cool down out there unless I got it into
> > the house. But I fear that would be way too much moving around. Right?


> If you can move the grill into a shady spot (that's what I do with mine)
> then I wouldn't worry too much about moving the canner into the house.
> It's best to NOT do too much moving of the pot until it has cooled down.
> I think some of the canners on this newsgroup do use propane stoves
> outdoors to do the work, maybe some will chime in.


There is no shade on my deck until early evening when I'm too tired to
start such a project. I'll have to talk to my husband and see if we can
find a solution for this problem. I'm so glad you told me to not be
moving the pot around too much. On the stove inside, I can just glide
it to the other side to cool down.

> >> Once I turn the heat off the pressure starts to drop and, within twenty
> >> minutes or less, the gauge reads zero. At that stage you can remove the
> >> top. At that point I do something our old home ec agent in Texas taught
> >> us, toss a tea towel over the top and let it sit five more minutes.

> >
> > If I may ask, what is the purpose of the towel?


> The home extension agent says it helps to control last minute liquid
> loss by keeping the canner from venting too much heat at the last
> minute. I just started doing it years ago and it seems to work.


Ah ha! Thanks for the great tip.
[...]
> > I've been very fortunate with BWB canning. But it would be nice to feel
> > even more secure and be able to can a greater variety of things. My
> > chicken broth takes up entirely too much freezer space, for instance.


> Yeah, I've got a couple of gallons of chicken broth in the freezer right
> now and it's not even soup weather. You can always use the pressure
> canner but take your time, do each step properly, watch the pressure
> gauge and keep the heat and pressure about right. When we had an
> electric stove I learned just when to cut the heat control back to
> control the pressure, you can too. Once you learn you can do it right it
> builds your self-confidence and it becomes easier. I had to learn how to
> control the heat all over again when we got the gas stove.


I appreciate the encouragement because I feared maybe it just could not
be done on a glass-top or that I was not up to the task. That peach
failure really put a dent in my self-confidence. This is the first
electric stove I've ever had and it sure has taken me awhile to get used
to it.

> ...NOTE: do have your pressure gauge tested annually for accuracy,
> some state extension services can have this done for you at a nominal
> fee. I'm lucky in that this is a heavy industry area and there's a
> gauge shop just down the road a bit. They do mine for free.


We have a pretty good extension service here though not as good as the
one back in Ohio. They do test dial gauges so that is not a concern.
[...]
> >> Oh yeah, none of the food I can has ever become mushy from the canning.
> >> YMMV

> >
> > Well that is certainly good to know. BTW, since I started freezing my
> > green beans on cookie sheets and then vacuum sealing them, they are just
> > ever so much better than the old way of packing them into boxes. The
> > only shell beans we get from the garden are black-eyed peas. And we
> > gobble all those up fresh so there's never any left to preserve.

>
> I haven't tried the green beans that way since we have a small freezer.
> Last year I pressure canned more than forty pint jars of green beans.
> One pint is just right for a meal for the two of us. Good luck with your
> canning and you can always come back to this crew and ask questions.


Oh I will... you can bet on that. And by the way, I found one of the
book references on pressure canning that made me think it reduced the
quality. The book is Blue-Ribbon Preserves by Linda Amendt (2001). And
on page 36 she says:

"Because of the extremely high temperatures reached under pressure, the
natural color, texture and flavor of high-acid preserved foods is often
destroyed if they are processed in a pressure canner. To preserve their
quality, high-acid preserved foods, such as fruit and tomatoes, should
only be processed in a water bath canner."

There are only a few pressure canner recipes in her book so maybe she
just doesn't have that much experience with pressure canning. Thanks
again,

Isabella
--
"I will show you fear in a handful of dust"
-T.S. Eliot
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Default Canning recipe specifies jar size - dangerous to change?

In article >,
The Cook > wrote:

> If you want to use your glass top stove, check your manual or
> call the manufacturer to see if it is OK. I have a fairly new GE
> glass top and it works great. I have very good luck with pressure or
> BWB canning with it.


That is so good to know! Mine is also a GE. It was here when we moved
in and is six years old. The "burners" come on instantaneously and I
think I remember reading that they are both standard electric and
halogen. The manual specifically stated that canning was fine.

> Once you have your produce ready to start processing, get
> everyone out of the kitchen. Do not answer the phone.
> Make sure you have the correct recipe.
> Read it all the way through several times, trying to see
> yourself performing the task. I do this even if I canned the same
> thing last week. It is easy (for me) to confuse one recipe with
> another.
> While you are reading for the 3rd or 4th time, start getting
> your equipment together. Make sure you have everything at hand. There
> is nothing worse that needing a piece of equipment "right now" and not
> being able to find it.
> Do not leave the kitchen until the stove has been turned off!
> I have been known to turn the electric stove off at night and go to
> bed. Everything is just fine. If I am still in the kitchen after I
> turn the stove off, I wait until the pressure comes down, open the
> safety control valve and unlock the top. I leave the top on for a
> while as the food cools down some.


I just love these suggestions and I'm saving them for future reference.
Thank you so much.

Isabella
--
"I will show you fear in a handful of dust"
-T.S. Eliot
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Default Canning recipe specifies jar size - dangerous to change?

Isabella Woodhouse wrote:
> My responses are below but I just wanted to take a moment and thank you
> George and all you other very kind and knowledgeable people for taking
> the time to help me. So few people anymore seem to appreciate the
> merits of preserving your own food. I've had people look at me like I
> was stark raving mad when I told them I was canning. Yet I have such
> fond memories of helping my grandmother can, make jam, etc. To me,
> there are few things more satisfying than hearing those little pings as
> my jars seal.
>
> In article >,
> George Shirley > wrote:
>
>> Isabella Woodhouse wrote:

> [...]
>>> We're all electric, no gas service at all. I have a glass-top range and
>>> I do recall that adjusting the pressure was difficult. I may well have
>>> heated on too high a range setting and then overcorrected to bring down
>>> the pressure. I recall doing peaches (halves) and that the jars lost
>>> half their liquid so I had to just open them all. Never had anything
>>> like that happen with BWB. The canner is a Presto with a dial gauge.

>
>> Many glass-top ranges have a prohibition for canning pots, just too
>> heavy for them. The process of over correcting that you described can
>> cause liquid loss. The idea is to have a smooth, steady climb to desired
>> pressure and to start cutting back the heat a little ahead of time.

>
> Yes, I did read all the range instructions and it does explicitly say
> that canning is all right as long as the canner is a perfect flat
> bottom. So my suspicions were on target regarding overcorrecting the
> heat. Do you have any suggestions as to what might be better to
> practice on? Are some things easier to pressure can than other things?

I've always found beans as in pinto, lima, and peas, blackeyes, etc.
easier to can than anything else. I don't can any meat products anymore
but used to do it regularly in the sixties, that, to me requires more
attention to detail than I care for. I think if you bought a few lbs of
dried blackeyed peas, soaked them overnight and then pressure canned
them according to instructions for rehydrated or fresh peas you would
get a good can out of them. I like blackeyes but don't can much of them
anymore because they're 49 cents a can at the store and it would cost me
more than that in time, labor, and energy costs to do them in the
pressure canner.
>
>>> We have an outdoor grill with a 15,000 BTU side burner so I was thinking
>>> maybe I could try using that for pressure canning. But, since it gets
>>> pretty hot here and it's very sunny out there, it would likely take a
>>> lot longer for the canner to cool down out there unless I got it into
>>> the house. But I fear that would be way too much moving around. Right?

>
>> If you can move the grill into a shady spot (that's what I do with mine)
>> then I wouldn't worry too much about moving the canner into the house.
>> It's best to NOT do too much moving of the pot until it has cooled down.
>> I think some of the canners on this newsgroup do use propane stoves
>> outdoors to do the work, maybe some will chime in.

>
> There is no shade on my deck until early evening when I'm too tired to
> start such a project. I'll have to talk to my husband and see if we can
> find a solution for this problem. I'm so glad you told me to not be
> moving the pot around too much. On the stove inside, I can just glide
> it to the other side to cool down.
>
>>>> Once I turn the heat off the pressure starts to drop and, within twenty
>>>> minutes or less, the gauge reads zero. At that stage you can remove the
>>>> top. At that point I do something our old home ec agent in Texas taught
>>>> us, toss a tea towel over the top and let it sit five more minutes.
>>> If I may ask, what is the purpose of the towel?

>
>> The home extension agent says it helps to control last minute liquid
>> loss by keeping the canner from venting too much heat at the last
>> minute. I just started doing it years ago and it seems to work.

>
> Ah ha! Thanks for the great tip.
> [...]
>>> I've been very fortunate with BWB canning. But it would be nice to feel
>>> even more secure and be able to can a greater variety of things. My
>>> chicken broth takes up entirely too much freezer space, for instance.

>
>> Yeah, I've got a couple of gallons of chicken broth in the freezer right
>> now and it's not even soup weather. You can always use the pressure
>> canner but take your time, do each step properly, watch the pressure
>> gauge and keep the heat and pressure about right. When we had an
>> electric stove I learned just when to cut the heat control back to
>> control the pressure, you can too. Once you learn you can do it right it
>> builds your self-confidence and it becomes easier. I had to learn how to
>> control the heat all over again when we got the gas stove.

>
> I appreciate the encouragement because I feared maybe it just could not
> be done on a glass-top or that I was not up to the task. That peach
> failure really put a dent in my self-confidence. This is the first
> electric stove I've ever had and it sure has taken me awhile to get used
> to it.
>
>> ...NOTE: do have your pressure gauge tested annually for accuracy,
>> some state extension services can have this done for you at a nominal
>> fee. I'm lucky in that this is a heavy industry area and there's a
>> gauge shop just down the road a bit. They do mine for free.

>
> We have a pretty good extension service here though not as good as the
> one back in Ohio. They do test dial gauges so that is not a concern.
> [...]
>>>> Oh yeah, none of the food I can has ever become mushy from the canning.
>>>> YMMV
>>> Well that is certainly good to know. BTW, since I started freezing my
>>> green beans on cookie sheets and then vacuum sealing them, they are just
>>> ever so much better than the old way of packing them into boxes. The
>>> only shell beans we get from the garden are black-eyed peas. And we
>>> gobble all those up fresh so there's never any left to preserve.

>> I haven't tried the green beans that way since we have a small freezer.
>> Last year I pressure canned more than forty pint jars of green beans.
>> One pint is just right for a meal for the two of us. Good luck with your
>> canning and you can always come back to this crew and ask questions.

>
> Oh I will... you can bet on that. And by the way, I found one of the
> book references on pressure canning that made me think it reduced the
> quality. The book is Blue-Ribbon Preserves by Linda Amendt (2001). And
> on page 36 she says:
>
> "Because of the extremely high temperatures reached under pressure, the
> natural color, texture and flavor of high-acid preserved foods is often
> destroyed if they are processed in a pressure canner. To preserve their
> quality, high-acid preserved foods, such as fruit and tomatoes, should
> only be processed in a water bath canner."

I have never pressure canned fruit, since I usually put it up in a light
syrup and it is high acid I just BWB the jars. They hold up well for
about a year. Tomatoes just don't get canned here, for some reason we no
longer can grow a decent crop of tomatoes so don't get hardly enough to
eat fresh much less can some.
>
> There are only a few pressure canner recipes in her book so maybe she
> just doesn't have that much experience with pressure canning. Thanks
> again,
>
> Isabella

Maybe so, some folks are just flat scared of pressure canning. I'm not
one of them as I ran high pressure boilers (600 psig to 3200 psig) in
heavy industry for several years. You have to stay cautious, observe the
safety rules but pressure canning, to me, is no more hazardous than
handling several gallons of boiling water. You're welcome Isabella. Hang
around and let us know how your canning projects come out. This is a
normally friendly bunch with a few old grouches but we can live with us.
<VBG>
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Default Canning recipe specifies jar size - dangerous to change?

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:30:38 -0500, Isabella Woodhouse
> wrote:

snippies

> To me,
>there are few things more satisfying than hearing those little pings as
>my jars seal.
>

Isn't that the truth!!

snow
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Default Canning recipe specifies jar size - dangerous to change?


"Ted Mittelstaedt" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Deidzoeb" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I've done some canning with pint and half pint jars. Haven't killed or
>> sickened anyone yet. Recently a friend gave me a dozen quart size jars
>> and I'd like to can some salsa in them. Is the jar size one of those
>> aspects of canning recipes that can be unsafe to change?

>
> Without adjusting the process time, yes.
>
>> Should I look
>> for a different salsa recipe that specifies quart jars in the end
>> step? I really don't want to give anyone botulism for Xmas.
>>

>
> Your going to have to correct me if your favorite salsa recipie is
> different, but most of them I've seen spec tomato chunks. In short,
> the finished product has significantly sized chunks of tomato in
> it. ANY of these recipies should be pressure canned regardless
> of any acidification that the recipie may specify or regardless of
> any boiling water canning that is specified. Tomatos are
> now known to be borderline low-acid, and the problem is that
> in a recipie where they survive intact, you can have regions within
> the tomato chunk that the acidification hasn't penetrated.
>
> There's a botulism story floating around on the Internet where
> 2 family members ended up in an Iron Lung for a week
> while their systems recovered, and the health department
> decanted and tested every one of their 50 quarts of spaghetti
> sauce they had boiling water canned, and found botulism
> toxin in only 3 of them. Their sauces had ground hamburger
> in them. The thought was that the toxin was created in
> meat chunks and migrated to the surrounding areas.
>
> With pressure canning, the process times are generally very,
> very long. Read the manual that came with your pressure canner.
> It will spec times for classifications of foods, these should
> always trump whatever the recipie specs.


Only where meat or garden greens are involved. All sauces with meat must be
pressure canned.
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/harvest/

>
> The more important issue, though, is convenience of the
> recipient. You may like eating salsa a lot and could maybe
> eat up a quart jar in a week, around here we use salsa only
> for dipping potato chips into, and a pint is a 6 month supply
> for us.


And some of us don't eat it at all. :^)

>
> This is why I do most of my jam canning in 1/2
> pint jars. I have several jam varieties I can. If I put them in
> pints, I would get tired of that variety before finishing off the
> jar, so I would end up with multiple open jam jars in the
> refrigerator.
>
>> I realize the amount of air space or whatever you call it at top of
>> jar might need to be different for quart jars than for pints. Is there
>> a rule for that, or does it depend on exactly what kind of food you're
>> processing?
>>

>
> I have found it really doesen't make much difference. I can applesauce
> in quarts because when we open a quart of applesauce we eat it
> within a couple days, and I just leave the same headspace as in 1/2
> pint jars. However I do leave a lot more headspace in jars when I
> can turkey soup in the pressure canner.


I hope you have the canners bible known as the Ball Blue Book.

>
> Ted
>
>




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Default Canning recipe specifies jar size - dangerous to change?


"Isabella Woodhouse" > wrote in message
...

[brevity snips]
>

So it's kind of hard to believe that the
> quality is going to be the same before and after a 30-60 minute
> cool-down time in a hot canner.


I have a Presto 23qt pressure canner and it cools in 15 minutes in my 76F
kitchen. 10 minutes after the pressure reaches zero I remove the canned
food.

.. When pressure canning, you
> can't use a quick release mechanism or hold the pot under cold water
> like you do for pressure cooking. It just has to sit there until the
> pressure comes down on its own. That is a lot of time all right---
> unless you have 2 or 3 pressure canners, a huge kitchen, and don't mind
> fooling with multiple gauges or weights, not to speak of all the storage
> room required. I don't think the people who wrote the article I cited
> included this cool-down time in their calculations.


A kitchen would have to be 95F for a canner to take 30 to 60 mins to cool.

> OTOH, it does take more energy to boil the huge amount of water
> necessary for a BWB canner. But, if you are going to be processing
> sequential batches, that would save some of that energy.


As it does with a pressure canner. By the time I remove the 1st batch to the
counter I have the second batch ready. A hot PC will reach 10 psi in
minutes.

>
> Isabella
> --
> "I will show you fear in a handful of dust"
> -T.S. Eliot


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Default Canning recipe specifies jar size - dangerous to change?


"George Shirley" > wrote in message
...
>
> Once I turn the heat off the pressure starts to drop and, within twenty
> minutes or less, the gauge reads zero.


If it takes someone's PC 30 to 60 mins for the temp to drop their kitchen is
way too hot.

> Sure, pressure canning is a PITA but you get a safer, more convenient food
> that will last up to a year or more in a cool place out of direct
> sunlight - my pantry.


I've kept home canned goods as long as 2 years and you couldn't tell the
difference. :^)

> It's certainly no more difficult or lengthy than messing around with jam
> pots, boiling jars for 5, 10, 20 minutes, etc. I quite BWBing tomatoes
> twenty years ago when I became uncertain as to the acidity of the fruit.
> If I get enough to can I pressure can them.


They still recommend you add the citric acid or Lemon juice to PC canned
tomatoes because of the density. It's even in the Canners bible, the Ball
Blue Book or BBB.

> Oh yeah, none of the food I can has ever become mushy from the canning.
> YMMV
>
> George
>


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Default Canning recipe specifies jar size - dangerous to change?


"Isabella Woodhouse" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> George Shirley > wrote:
>
>> Hokay, I'll chime in here. I've been pressure canning for more than 40
>> years, most of it with the same eighteen-quart canner. Mine is the one
>> with the gauge that reads the pressure but it also has a jiggler.

>
> I'm so glad you posted--- thank you. While I've done a lot of
> canning and preserving, I have only little experience (a few years ago)
> with pressure canning and, basically, what I recall is that BWB seemed
> so much easier and less time-consuming than pressure canning. OTOH, I
> was horribly sick at the time (celiac) but now, after recovering for a
> couple years, I am very much better and getting back into my groove
> again. So I need to relearn the process I guess.


Just make sure you don't follow old rules of canning. A lot has changed over
the past 10 years where safety is concerned.

> We're all electric, no gas service at all. I have a glass-top range and
> I do recall that adjusting the pressure was difficult. I may well have
> heated on too high a range setting and then overcorrected to bring down
> the pressure. I recall doing peaches (halves) and that the jars lost
> half their liquid so I had to just open them all. Never had anything
> like that happen with BWB. The canner is a Presto with a dial gauge.


Peaches are better done in a BWB. If the jars "drained" you let the
pressure drop too quickly or the pressure went up and down.

> We have an outdoor grill with a 15,000 BTU side burner so I was thinking
> maybe I could try using that for pressure canning. But, since it gets
> pretty hot here and it's very sunny out there, it would likely take a
> lot longer for the canner to cool down out there unless I got it into
> the house. But I fear that would be way too much moving around. Right?


As soon as the pressure drops to zero remove the weight, wait another 5 mins
and open the top - away from you so you don't get a blast of steam in the
face. If the cans are still bubbling let the sit in the canner another 5 to
10 mins, then remove.

>
> My canner only has a plate with holes on the bottom--- no lift-out rack.


Use a jar lifter. They work real well.

> In the past, all our BWB canners had a rack that held all the jars and
> you would lift the entire thing out. I was worried about the jars
> falling into each other and rattling around. I wondered if maybe that
> was why my peaches did not turn out. It was disconcerting.


See above. BWB peaches, pears, apples, jams and jellies.

> I've been very fortunate with BWB canning. But it would be nice to feel
> even more secure and be able to can a greater variety of things. My
> chicken broth takes up entirely too much freezer space, for instance.


Don't you have the latest Ball Blue Book? BWB is very limiting. Chicken
and beef broth can very well.

> Isabella
> --
> "I will show you fear in a handful of dust"
> -T.S. Eliot


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Default Canning recipe specifies jar size - dangerous to change?


"Deidzoeb" > wrote in message
...
I decided not to buy a new pressure cooker because they're too
expensive and not very large. I'll keep an eye out for old ones at
Goodwill.

Keep in mind that pressure cookers and pressure canners aren't the same
thing.

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Default Canning recipe specifies jar size - dangerous to change?

In article >,
"Marie Dodge" > wrote:

> "Isabella Woodhouse" > wrote in message
> ...


> > I'm so glad you posted--- thank you. While I've done a lot of
> > canning and preserving, I have only little experience (a few years ago)
> > with pressure canning and, basically, what I recall is that BWB seemed
> > so much easier and less time-consuming than pressure canning. OTOH, I
> > was horribly sick at the time (celiac) but now, after recovering for a
> > couple years, I am very much better and getting back into my groove
> > again. So I need to relearn the process I guess.

>
> Just make sure you don't follow old rules of canning. A lot has changed over
> the past 10 years where safety is concerned.


I do have the most recent BBB but I'm pretty sure it's at least a couple
years old. Recently I looked on their web site to see if there was a
newer one but it did not have one more recent than mine (the one with
the cheesecake on the front).

> > We're all electric, no gas service at all. I have a glass-top range and
> > I do recall that adjusting the pressure was difficult. I may well have
> > heated on too high a range setting and then overcorrected to bring down
> > the pressure. I recall doing peaches (halves) and that the jars lost
> > half their liquid so I had to just open them all. Never had anything
> > like that happen with BWB. The canner is a Presto with a dial gauge.

>
> Peaches are better done in a BWB. If the jars "drained" you let the
> pressure drop too quickly or the pressure went up and down.


The manual that came with my 23 quart Presto lists pressure canning as
the first method for peaches, so I assumed it was the preferred method.
Silly me. Yes, it was very difficult on my electric range. Like I told
George, it's been awhile but I seem to recall the pressure going up too
high very fast and that maybe I over-corrected for fear of a disaster.
I was just starting to get up the courage to try it again but maybe it's
just too difficult on a glass-top. My range (here when we moved in)
takes forever to cool down. For normal cooking, I am always removing
pans from the burners to get the temperature down more quickly. Can't
do that with a pressure canner.

My plan has been to replace the range with induction in the future...
when the prices are a bit better and when they finally have a decent
zoneless unit (zoneless meaning that you can put your pans anywhere on
the cooktop, not just on designated circles. I just got a 10 qt Fagor
pressure cooker/canner that will do 4 pints on induction. But I'm not
aware of any other induction pressure canner. Maybe I should just try
pressure canning in that instead. Maybe smaller would be easier.
However, it has only two settings: 8 PSI and 15 PSI. No weight and no
dial gauge. Agh... I'm so discouraged.

> > We have an outdoor grill with a 15,000 BTU side burner so I was thinking
> > maybe I could try using that for pressure canning. But, since it gets
> > pretty hot here and it's very sunny out there, it would likely take a
> > lot longer for the canner to cool down out there unless I got it into
> > the house. But I fear that would be way too much moving around. Right?

>
> As soon as the pressure drops to zero remove the weight, wait another 5 mins
> and open the top - away from you so you don't get a blast of steam in the
> face. If the cans are still bubbling let the sit in the canner another 5 to
> 10 mins, then remove.


Thanks. I really appreciate the advice and, as you can tell, I need it
badly.

> > My canner only has a plate with holes on the bottom--- no lift-out rack.

>
> Use a jar lifter. They work real well.


I have a jar lifter. My concern was that the jars seem to rattle around
inside the canner with nothing to keep them from bumping into each other
and breaking.

> > In the past, all our BWB canners had a rack that held all the jars and
> > you would lift the entire thing out. I was worried about the jars
> > falling into each other and rattling around. I wondered if maybe that
> > was why my peaches did not turn out. It was disconcerting.

>
> See above. BWB peaches, pears, apples, jams and jellies.


Was hoping to make some jam since the plum trees are bearing well for
the first time. But the japanese beetles seem to be getting so many of
them already. So much work... for nothing.

Isabella
--
"I will show you fear in a handful of dust"
-T.S. Eliot


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Default Canning recipe specifies jar size - dangerous to change?

"Marie Dodge" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Isabella Woodhouse" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> [brevity snips]
>>

> So it's kind of hard to believe that the
>> quality is going to be the same before and after a 30-60 minute
>> cool-down time in a hot canner.

>
> I have a Presto 23qt pressure canner and it cools in 15 minutes in my 76F
> kitchen. 10 minutes after the pressure reaches zero I remove the canned
> food.
>
> . When pressure canning, you
>> can't use a quick release mechanism or hold the pot under cold water
>> like you do for pressure cooking. It just has to sit there until the
>> pressure comes down on its own. That is a lot of time all right---
>> unless you have 2 or 3 pressure canners, a huge kitchen, and don't mind
>> fooling with multiple gauges or weights, not to speak of all the storage
>> room required. I don't think the people who wrote the article I cited
>> included this cool-down time in their calculations.

>
> A kitchen would have to be 95F for a canner to take 30 to 60 mins to cool.


Not to doubt you or anything, but do you have a cite for this?

Perhaps it's a function of the model canner one is using. I haven't timed
how long it takes mine to cool except, except that I know it's a lot more
than 20 minutes. Once I was trying to finish up some canning before I went
out to dinner. I turned the stove off at about 6:00, and at 6:20 the
pressure reading was still over 5.


>
>> OTOH, it does take more energy to boil the huge amount of water
>> necessary for a BWB canner. But, if you are going to be processing
>> sequential batches, that would save some of that energy.

>
> As it does with a pressure canner. By the time I remove the 1st batch to
> the counter I have the second batch ready. A hot PC will reach 10 psi in
> minutes.
>


Yes, in minutes, but still in a lot more time than it takes the BWB canner
to return to a boil if it's already at a boil when you put the jars in and
you are using the hot-pack method. With pressure canning it's three steps:
1) Come to a boil hard enough to send steam through the opening, 2) vent for
10 minutes, and 3) bring up to pressure. All in all, that's at least 15
minutes, and more likely to be at least 20.

I'm not saying that pressure canning is harder to do than BWB canning -- I'm
just saying that it often takes more time. When I have a choice in how to
can safely (which means canning tomatoes -- I can't think of any other
product that gives safe and satisfactory results with either method), I use
the BWB method. YMMV.

Anny


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Default Canning recipe specifies jar size - dangerous to change?


"Isabella Woodhouse" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Marie Dodge" > wrote:
>
>> "Isabella Woodhouse" > wrote in message
>> ...

>
>> > I'm so glad you posted--- thank you. While I've done a lot of
>> > canning and preserving, I have only little experience (a few years ago)
>> > with pressure canning and, basically, what I recall is that BWB seemed
>> > so much easier and less time-consuming than pressure canning. OTOH, I
>> > was horribly sick at the time (celiac) but now, after recovering for a
>> > couple years, I am very much better and getting back into my groove
>> > again. So I need to relearn the process I guess.

>>
>> Just make sure you don't follow old rules of canning. A lot has changed
>> over
>> the past 10 years where safety is concerned.

>
> I do have the most recent BBB but I'm pretty sure it's at least a couple
> years old. Recently I looked on their web site to see if there was a
> newer one but it did not have one more recent than mine (the one with
> the cheesecake on the front).
>
>> > We're all electric, no gas service at all. I have a glass-top range
>> > and
>> > I do recall that adjusting the pressure was difficult. I may well have
>> > heated on too high a range setting and then overcorrected to bring down
>> > the pressure. I recall doing peaches (halves) and that the jars lost
>> > half their liquid so I had to just open them all. Never had anything
>> > like that happen with BWB. The canner is a Presto with a dial gauge.

>>
>> Peaches are better done in a BWB. If the jars "drained" you let the
>> pressure drop too quickly or the pressure went up and down.

>
> The manual that came with my 23 quart Presto lists pressure canning as
> the first method for peaches, so I assumed it was the preferred method.
> Silly me. Yes, it was very difficult on my electric range. Like I told
> George, it's been awhile but I seem to recall the pressure going up too
> high very fast and that maybe I over-corrected for fear of a disaster.
> I was just starting to get up the courage to try it again but maybe it's
> just too difficult on a glass-top. My range (here when we moved in)
> takes forever to cool down. For normal cooking, I am always removing
> pans from the burners to get the temperature down more quickly. Can't
> do that with a pressure canner.
>
> My plan has been to replace the range with induction in the future...
> when the prices are a bit better and when they finally have a decent
> zoneless unit (zoneless meaning that you can put your pans anywhere on
> the cooktop, not just on designated circles. I just got a 10 qt Fagor
> pressure cooker/canner that will do 4 pints on induction. But I'm not
> aware of any other induction pressure canner. Maybe I should just try
> pressure canning in that instead. Maybe smaller would be easier.
> However, it has only two settings: 8 PSI and 15 PSI. No weight and no
> dial gauge. Agh... I'm so discouraged.
>
>> > We have an outdoor grill with a 15,000 BTU side burner so I was
>> > thinking
>> > maybe I could try using that for pressure canning. But, since it gets
>> > pretty hot here and it's very sunny out there, it would likely take a
>> > lot longer for the canner to cool down out there unless I got it into
>> > the house. But I fear that would be way too much moving around.
>> > Right?

>>
>> As soon as the pressure drops to zero remove the weight, wait another 5
>> mins
>> and open the top - away from you so you don't get a blast of steam in the
>> face. If the cans are still bubbling let the sit in the canner another 5
>> to
>> 10 mins, then remove.

>
> Thanks. I really appreciate the advice and, as you can tell, I need it
> badly.
>
>> > My canner only has a plate with holes on the bottom--- no lift-out
>> > rack.

>>
>> Use a jar lifter. They work real well.

>
> I have a jar lifter. My concern was that the jars seem to rattle around
> inside the canner with nothing to keep them from bumping into each other
> and breaking.
>
>> > In the past, all our BWB canners had a rack that held all the jars and
>> > you would lift the entire thing out. I was worried about the jars
>> > falling into each other and rattling around. I wondered if maybe that
>> > was why my peaches did not turn out. It was disconcerting.

>>
>> See above. BWB peaches, pears, apples, jams and jellies.

>
> Was hoping to make some jam since the plum trees are bearing well for
> the first time. But the japanese beetles seem to be getting so many of
> them already. So much work... for nothing.
>
> Isabella


Don't get discouraged. Read the book that came with your canner. Make sure
you don't miss anything. Canning is easy and fun once you get the hang of
it. Another thing, Presto doesn't supply the 3-piece weight you need to can
many foods if you live less than 1000 ft above sea level. The weight they
give you with the canner is a 15 lb weight. You need the one that cans at 5
or 10 or 15 lbs pressure. You can pressure can fruit but it comes out better
in a water bather. You need to spray your tree for the beetles. Google
"three piece weight Presto" and order one now unless you're over 1000 ft.

> --
> "I will show you fear in a handful of dust"
> -T.S. Eliot


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Default Canning recipe specifies jar size - dangerous to change?


"Anny Middon" > wrote in message
...
> "Marie Dodge" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Isabella Woodhouse" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>> [brevity snips]
>>>

>> So it's kind of hard to believe that the
>>> quality is going to be the same before and after a 30-60 minute
>>> cool-down time in a hot canner.

>>
>> I have a Presto 23qt pressure canner and it cools in 15 minutes in my 76F
>> kitchen. 10 minutes after the pressure reaches zero I remove the canned
>> food.
>>
>> . When pressure canning, you
>>> can't use a quick release mechanism or hold the pot under cold water
>>> like you do for pressure cooking. It just has to sit there until the
>>> pressure comes down on its own. That is a lot of time all right---
>>> unless you have 2 or 3 pressure canners, a huge kitchen, and don't mind
>>> fooling with multiple gauges or weights, not to speak of all the storage
>>> room required. I don't think the people who wrote the article I cited
>>> included this cool-down time in their calculations.

>>
>> A kitchen would have to be 95F for a canner to take 30 to 60 mins to
>> cool.

>
> Not to doubt you or anything, but do you have a cite for this?


A cite for how long it takes *my* canner to cool? LOL!!!!!

>
> Perhaps it's a function of the model canner one is using. I haven't timed
> how long it takes mine to cool except, except that I know it's a lot more
> than 20 minutes. Once I was trying to finish up some canning before I
> went out to dinner. I turned the stove off at about 6:00, and at 6:20 the
> pressure reading was still over 5.


Try moving it off the burner when the time is up. Some people sit their
canner on the floor on a few bricks where it's cooler. I just move mine to a
cool burner.

>>> OTOH, it does take more energy to boil the huge amount of water
>>> necessary for a BWB canner. But, if you are going to be processing
>>> sequential batches, that would save some of that energy.

>>
>> As it does with a pressure canner. By the time I remove the 1st batch to
>> the counter I have the second batch ready. A hot PC will reach 10 psi in
>> minutes.


> Yes, in minutes, but still in a lot more time than it takes the BWB canner
> to return to a boil if it's already at a boil when you put the jars in and
> you are using the hot-pack method. With pressure canning it's three
> steps: 1) Come to a boil hard enough to send steam through the opening, 2)
> vent for 10 minutes, and 3) bring up to pressure. All in all, that's at
> least 15 minutes, and more likely to be at least 20.


Why are you in such a rush? What's the big deal if one takes a few minutes
more than another method? If you dislike canning don't do it, or if you
don't want to use a PC, stick with the BWB method. Why discourage others who
may not have tried a PC? BWB is very limiting.

>
> I'm not saying that pressure canning is harder to do than BWB canning --
> I'm just saying that it often takes more time. When I have a choice in
> how to can safely (which means canning tomatoes -- I can't think of any
> other product that gives safe and satisfactory results with either
> method), I use the BWB method. YMMV.
>
> Anny
>
>


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Default Canning recipe specifies jar size - dangerous to change?

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 01:15:30 -0500, "Marie Dodge"
> wrote:

>
>"Isabella Woodhouse" > wrote in message
...
>> In article >,
>> "Marie Dodge" > wrote:
>>
>>> "Isabella Woodhouse" > wrote in message
>>> ...

>>
>>> > I'm so glad you posted--- thank you. While I've done a lot of
>>> > canning and preserving, I have only little experience (a few years ago)
>>> > with pressure canning and, basically, what I recall is that BWB seemed
>>> > so much easier and less time-consuming than pressure canning. OTOH, I
>>> > was horribly sick at the time (celiac) but now, after recovering for a
>>> > couple years, I am very much better and getting back into my groove
>>> > again. So I need to relearn the process I guess.
>>>
>>> Just make sure you don't follow old rules of canning. A lot has changed
>>> over
>>> the past 10 years where safety is concerned.

>>
>> I do have the most recent BBB but I'm pretty sure it's at least a couple
>> years old. Recently I looked on their web site to see if there was a
>> newer one but it did not have one more recent than mine (the one with
>> the cheesecake on the front).
>>
>>> > We're all electric, no gas service at all. I have a glass-top range
>>> > and
>>> > I do recall that adjusting the pressure was difficult. I may well have
>>> > heated on too high a range setting and then overcorrected to bring down
>>> > the pressure. I recall doing peaches (halves) and that the jars lost
>>> > half their liquid so I had to just open them all. Never had anything
>>> > like that happen with BWB. The canner is a Presto with a dial gauge.
>>>
>>> Peaches are better done in a BWB. If the jars "drained" you let the
>>> pressure drop too quickly or the pressure went up and down.

>>
>> The manual that came with my 23 quart Presto lists pressure canning as
>> the first method for peaches, so I assumed it was the preferred method.
>> Silly me. Yes, it was very difficult on my electric range. Like I told
>> George, it's been awhile but I seem to recall the pressure going up too
>> high very fast and that maybe I over-corrected for fear of a disaster.
>> I was just starting to get up the courage to try it again but maybe it's
>> just too difficult on a glass-top. My range (here when we moved in)
>> takes forever to cool down. For normal cooking, I am always removing
>> pans from the burners to get the temperature down more quickly. Can't
>> do that with a pressure canner.
>>
>> My plan has been to replace the range with induction in the future...
>> when the prices are a bit better and when they finally have a decent
>> zoneless unit (zoneless meaning that you can put your pans anywhere on
>> the cooktop, not just on designated circles. I just got a 10 qt Fagor
>> pressure cooker/canner that will do 4 pints on induction. But I'm not
>> aware of any other induction pressure canner. Maybe I should just try
>> pressure canning in that instead. Maybe smaller would be easier.
>> However, it has only two settings: 8 PSI and 15 PSI. No weight and no
>> dial gauge. Agh... I'm so discouraged.
>>
>>> > We have an outdoor grill with a 15,000 BTU side burner so I was
>>> > thinking
>>> > maybe I could try using that for pressure canning. But, since it gets
>>> > pretty hot here and it's very sunny out there, it would likely take a
>>> > lot longer for the canner to cool down out there unless I got it into
>>> > the house. But I fear that would be way too much moving around.
>>> > Right?
>>>
>>> As soon as the pressure drops to zero remove the weight, wait another 5
>>> mins
>>> and open the top - away from you so you don't get a blast of steam in the
>>> face. If the cans are still bubbling let the sit in the canner another 5
>>> to
>>> 10 mins, then remove.

>>
>> Thanks. I really appreciate the advice and, as you can tell, I need it
>> badly.
>>
>>> > My canner only has a plate with holes on the bottom--- no lift-out
>>> > rack.
>>>
>>> Use a jar lifter. They work real well.

>>
>> I have a jar lifter. My concern was that the jars seem to rattle around
>> inside the canner with nothing to keep them from bumping into each other
>> and breaking.
>>
>>> > In the past, all our BWB canners had a rack that held all the jars and
>>> > you would lift the entire thing out. I was worried about the jars
>>> > falling into each other and rattling around. I wondered if maybe that
>>> > was why my peaches did not turn out. It was disconcerting.
>>>
>>> See above. BWB peaches, pears, apples, jams and jellies.

>>
>> Was hoping to make some jam since the plum trees are bearing well for
>> the first time. But the japanese beetles seem to be getting so many of
>> them already. So much work... for nothing.
>>
>> Isabella

>
>Don't get discouraged. Read the book that came with your canner. Make sure
>you don't miss anything. Canning is easy and fun once you get the hang of
>it. Another thing, Presto doesn't supply the 3-piece weight you need to can
>many foods if you live less than 1000 ft above sea level. The weight they
>give you with the canner is a 15 lb weight. You need the one that cans at 5
>or 10 or 15 lbs pressure. You can pressure can fruit but it comes out better
>in a water bather. You need to spray your tree for the beetles. Google
>"three piece weight Presto" and order one now unless you're over 1000 ft.
>


Yes, read your manual for the operation of the pressure canner, but
don't rely on it for the current information on canning. Remember the
pressure canner pressure cans and the instruction books usually only
cover that process. Read the BBB and The University of Georgia site
http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/ for current information and alternate
processes and recipes.

BTW I prefer to load and unload the canner with the jar lifter rather
than loading the rack and putting that in. Trying to lift a rack with
7 quarts of food into either a canner or BWB doesn't work for me. I
am not tall enough and don't have enough upper body strength to left
the rack and keep it straight. I can't be assured that the rack will
stay anchored on the top until I get it loaded. And again keeping it
straight while immersing the jars can be a problem. Do what works for
you.
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Default Canning recipe specifies jar size - dangerous to change?

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 01:21:25 -0500, "Marie Dodge"
> wrote:

>
>"Anny Middon" > wrote in message
.. .
>> "Marie Dodge" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Isabella Woodhouse" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>
>>> [brevity snips]
>>>>
>>> So it's kind of hard to believe that the
>>>> quality is going to be the same before and after a 30-60 minute
>>>> cool-down time in a hot canner.
>>>
>>> I have a Presto 23qt pressure canner and it cools in 15 minutes in my 76F
>>> kitchen. 10 minutes after the pressure reaches zero I remove the canned
>>> food.
>>>
>>> . When pressure canning, you
>>>> can't use a quick release mechanism or hold the pot under cold water
>>>> like you do for pressure cooking. It just has to sit there until the
>>>> pressure comes down on its own. That is a lot of time all right---
>>>> unless you have 2 or 3 pressure canners, a huge kitchen, and don't mind
>>>> fooling with multiple gauges or weights, not to speak of all the storage
>>>> room required. I don't think the people who wrote the article I cited
>>>> included this cool-down time in their calculations.
>>>
>>> A kitchen would have to be 95F for a canner to take 30 to 60 mins to
>>> cool.

>>
>> Not to doubt you or anything, but do you have a cite for this?

>
>A cite for how long it takes *my* canner to cool? LOL!!!!!
>
>>
>> Perhaps it's a function of the model canner one is using. I haven't timed
>> how long it takes mine to cool except, except that I know it's a lot more
>> than 20 minutes. Once I was trying to finish up some canning before I
>> went out to dinner. I turned the stove off at about 6:00, and at 6:20 the
>> pressure reading was still over 5.

>
>Try moving it off the burner when the time is up. Some people sit their
>canner on the floor on a few bricks where it's cooler. I just move mine to a
>cool burner.
>
>>>> OTOH, it does take more energy to boil the huge amount of water
>>>> necessary for a BWB canner. But, if you are going to be processing
>>>> sequential batches, that would save some of that energy.
>>>
>>> As it does with a pressure canner. By the time I remove the 1st batch to
>>> the counter I have the second batch ready. A hot PC will reach 10 psi in
>>> minutes.

>
>> Yes, in minutes, but still in a lot more time than it takes the BWB canner
>> to return to a boil if it's already at a boil when you put the jars in and
>> you are using the hot-pack method. With pressure canning it's three
>> steps: 1) Come to a boil hard enough to send steam through the opening, 2)
>> vent for 10 minutes, and 3) bring up to pressure. All in all, that's at
>> least 15 minutes, and more likely to be at least 20.

>
>Why are you in such a rush? What's the big deal if one takes a few minutes
>more than another method? If you dislike canning don't do it, or if you
>don't want to use a PC, stick with the BWB method. Why discourage others who
>may not have tried a PC? BWB is very limiting.
>
>>
>> I'm not saying that pressure canning is harder to do than BWB canning --
>> I'm just saying that it often takes more time. When I have a choice in
>> how to can safely (which means canning tomatoes -- I can't think of any
>> other product that gives safe and satisfactory results with either
>> method), I use the BWB method. YMMV.
>>
>> Anny
>>
>>


Neither method is perfect for all foods. If all you do is jams,
jellies, pickles and fruits, BWB if great. I am not sure it is any
quicker, but it does not require quite as much attention as a canner.
If you are canning vegetables and meats, the only safe way is the
pressure canner.

My canner is a 14 quart All American that is very heavy cast aluminum.
It takes it forever for the pressure to come down. The 21 quart All
American takes even longer.

As Anny says it takes at least 20 minutes to bring the PC up to
pressure. And at least as long to cool down. For tomatoes, which can
be done by either method the timing at <1000 feet is:

BWB 40 - 45 minutes depending on pints or quarts. Of course you
must get the water up to a boil, but that can be done while you are
getting other things ready.

PC 15 minutes for either, plus at least 20 minutes to get it up
to pressure. I don't worry so much about the time to cool, since as I
said before I sometimes turn the burner off and go to bed.

It is not so much making a choice as choosing the correct method for
the food.



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Default Canning recipe specifies jar size - dangerous to change?

"Marie Dodge" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Anny Middon" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Marie Dodge" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Isabella Woodhouse" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>
>>> [brevity snips]
>>>>
>>> So it's kind of hard to believe that the
>>>> quality is going to be the same before and after a 30-60 minute
>>>> cool-down time in a hot canner.
>>>
>>> I have a Presto 23qt pressure canner and it cools in 15 minutes in my
>>> 76F kitchen. 10 minutes after the pressure reaches zero I remove the
>>> canned food.
>>>
>>> . When pressure canning, you
>>>> can't use a quick release mechanism or hold the pot under cold water
>>>> like you do for pressure cooking. It just has to sit there until the
>>>> pressure comes down on its own. That is a lot of time all right---
>>>> unless you have 2 or 3 pressure canners, a huge kitchen, and don't mind
>>>> fooling with multiple gauges or weights, not to speak of all the
>>>> storage
>>>> room required. I don't think the people who wrote the article I cited
>>>> included this cool-down time in their calculations.
>>>
>>> A kitchen would have to be 95F for a canner to take 30 to 60 mins to
>>> cool.

>>
>> Not to doubt you or anything, but do you have a cite for this?

>
> A cite for how long it takes *my* canner to cool? LOL!!!!!


No, silly -- a cite for your contention that a kitchen would have to be 95F
for a canner to take 30 to 60 minutes to cool.

>>
>> Perhaps it's a function of the model canner one is using. I haven't
>> timed how long it takes mine to cool except, except that I know it's a
>> lot more than 20 minutes. Once I was trying to finish up some canning
>> before I went out to dinner. I turned the stove off at about 6:00, and
>> at 6:20 the pressure reading was still over 5.

>
> Try moving it off the burner when the time is up. Some people sit their
> canner on the floor on a few bricks where it's cooler. I just move mine to
> a cool burner.
>


The manual for my All-American canner specifically states that it should not
be moved until the pressure indicator reads 0.

>>>> OTOH, it does take more energy to boil the huge amount of water
>>>> necessary for a BWB canner. But, if you are going to be processing
>>>> sequential batches, that would save some of that energy.
>>>
>>> As it does with a pressure canner. By the time I remove the 1st batch to
>>> the counter I have the second batch ready. A hot PC will reach 10 psi in
>>> minutes.

>
>> Yes, in minutes, but still in a lot more time than it takes the BWB
>> canner to return to a boil if it's already at a boil when you put the
>> jars in and you are using the hot-pack method. With pressure canning
>> it's three steps: 1) Come to a boil hard enough to send steam through the
>> opening, 2) vent for 10 minutes, and 3) bring up to pressure. All in
>> all, that's at least 15 minutes, and more likely to be at least 20.

>
> Why are you in such a rush? What's the big deal if one takes a few minutes
> more than another method? If you dislike canning don't do it, or if you
> don't want to use a PC, stick with the BWB method. Why discourage others
> who may not have tried a PC? BWB is very limiting.


Once again -- I can using both methods. I can because I like it. I often
can in marathon sessions where I do maybe three items -- but only when I'm
BWB, because PC takes too much time to do more than one product in an
evening. My stove just isn't big enough to can using both BWB and PC at the
same time -- I can put one on the front burner one side and the other on the
back burner on the other side, but then there's no space for a pot to cook
the next item to be canned.

Why is pointing out that PC takes longer than BWB supposed to discourage
others? I don't like misinformation, even when it is well-meant. The
notion that PC takes the same amount or less time than BWB for the same
product when measuring from the point that cans are put in till when they
are removed is misinformation.

Anny


>
>>
>> I'm not saying that pressure canning is harder to do than BWB canning --
>> I'm just saying that it often takes more time. When I have a choice in
>> how to can safely (which means canning tomatoes -- I can't think of any
>> other product that gives safe and satisfactory results with either
>> method), I use the BWB method. YMMV.
>>
>> Anny
>>
>>

>



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Default Canning recipe specifies jar size - dangerous to change?

In article >,
"Marie Dodge" > wrote:

> Don't get discouraged. Read the book that came with your canner. Make sure
> you don't miss anything. Canning is easy and fun once you get the hang of
> it. Another thing, Presto doesn't supply the 3-piece weight you need to can
> many foods if you live less than 1000 ft above sea level. The weight they
> give you with the canner is a 15 lb weight. You need the one that cans at 5
> or 10 or 15 lbs pressure. You can pressure can fruit but it comes out better
> in a water bather. You need to spray your tree for the beetles. Google
> "three piece weight Presto" and order one now unless you're over 1000 ft.


I got out my book again and it says nothing about a weight. Do you mean
the pressure regulator? My canner has a dial gauge and a pressure
regulator.

I'll definitely BWB any fruit I get. We sprayed the tree with some
organic concoction my husband got from Johnny's and the beetles are
mostly gone! Yay! The plums are ripening now. Oh goody.

Thank you so much for the help.

Isabella
--
"I will show you fear in a handful of dust"
-T.S. Eliot
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Default Canning recipe specifies jar size - dangerous to change?

In article >,
The Cook > wrote:

> Yes, read your manual for the operation of the pressure canner, but
> don't rely on it for the current information on canning. Remember the
> pressure canner pressure cans and the instruction books usually only
> cover that process. Read the BBB and The University of Georgia site
> http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/ for current information and alternate
> processes and recipes.


Thanks. I do have that site in my bookmarks. Very handy.

> BTW I prefer to load and unload the canner with the jar lifter rather
> than loading the rack and putting that in. Trying to lift a rack with
> 7 quarts of food into either a canner or BWB doesn't work for me. I
> am not tall enough and don't have enough upper body strength to left
> the rack and keep it straight. I can't be assured that the rack will
> stay anchored on the top until I get it loaded. And again keeping it
> straight while immersing the jars can be a problem. Do what works for
> you.


Yes, I always use a jar lifter too. I use my pressure canner for BWB.
So, when you only have a disk on the bottom like mine, instead of a
rack, the jars tend to rattle and move into each other when they are
covered by water. That is what I meant by not having a rack for the
jars.

Isabella
--
"I will show you fear in a handful of dust"
-T.S. Eliot
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Default Canning recipe specifies jar size - dangerous to change?

"Isabella Woodhouse" > wrote in message
...
>
> I'll definitely BWB any fruit I get. We sprayed the tree with some
> organic concoction my husband got from Johnny's and the beetles are
> mostly gone! Yay! The plums are ripening now. Oh goody.
>


Do you have the Ball Complete Guide to Home Preserving? (I think that's the
name.)

If so, there's a recipe there for Orange Plum Jam with pectin that is
absolutely delish! It's mostly plums, with a little grated orange rind and
some orange liquer (optional -- I used Grand Marnier) in it.

I'm becoming more convinced that there are few jam recipes that don't
benefit from the addition of a little citrus fruit. The Strawberry Lime jam
I made last year won a blue ribbon and Special Award at my county fair. I
have a friend who keeps bugging me to make more blueberry marmalade (mostly
blueberries, with some orange and lemon added).

Anny


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Default Canning recipe specifies jar size - dangerous to change?

On Jul 19, 7:48*pm, "Marie Dodge" > wrote:
> "Deidzoeb" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> I decided not to buy a new pressure cooker because they're too
> expensive and not very large. I'll keep an eye out for old ones at
> Goodwill.
>
> Keep in mind that pressure cookers and pressure canners aren't the same
> thing.


Yeah, I thought canners were just bigger pressure cookers, but people
on this thread have been reminding me there's a difference. In that
case, I don't think I've even seen a pressure canner in any regular
store, so pressure canners and replacement parts for them are bound to
be even more expensive.

I've heard people say that old pressure cookers or canners picked up
at thrift stores or garage sales need to have old gaskets and maybe
old guages replaced.
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