Serene wrote:
Ray West wrote:
I've tried the ph metres, non of them work well enough to be of any
use, can't even relie on subsequent readings on the same test subject.

Got my money back on them.

It is well known that most tomatoes run at below ph 4.6 and do not
need further acidification,

Everything I've read lately has said that tomatoes are being bred to be
less acidic, so this isn't true any more. I'm a little confused now.

Serene
Don't be, more and more tomatoes and tomato seeds sold in the USA are
only mildly acidic and need the citric acid added or some other acidifier.

George

George Shirley wrote:
Serene wrote:
Ray West wrote:
I've tried the ph metres, non of them work well enough to be of any
use, can't even relie on subsequent readings on the same test subject.

Got my money back on them.

It is well known that most tomatoes run at below ph 4.6 and do not
need further acidification,
Everything I've read lately has said that tomatoes are being bred to be
less acidic, so this isn't true any more. I'm a little confused now.

Serene
Don't be, more and more tomatoes and tomato seeds sold in the USA are
only mildly acidic and need the citric acid added or some other acidifier.

Okay, cool. Thanks! I'm hoping to have enough tomatoes this summer
to put it to the test. I'll almost certainly have more zucchini than
I can use, but mostly I don't think that cans or freezes all that well.

Serene

Serene wrote:
George Shirley wrote:
Serene wrote:
Ray West wrote:
I've tried the ph metres, non of them work well enough to be of any
use, can't even relie on subsequent readings on the same test subject.

Got my money back on them.

It is well known that most tomatoes run at below ph 4.6 and do not
need further acidification,
Everything I've read lately has said that tomatoes are being bred to
be less acidic, so this isn't true any more. I'm a little confused now.

Serene
Don't be, more and more tomatoes and tomato seeds sold in the USA are
only mildly acidic and need the citric acid added or some other
acidifier.

Okay, cool. Thanks! I'm hoping to have enough tomatoes this summer to
put it to the test. I'll almost certainly have more zucchini than I can
use, but mostly I don't think that cans or freezes all that well.

Serene
I've not found a summer squash that freezes well at all. What we can't
eat as it ripens we give to friends and neighbors. Some winter squashes
can be canned but, to me, the texture is lacking.

George

On May 15, 3:56�pm, George Shirley wrote:
Serene wrote:
Ray West wrote:
I've tried the ph metres, non of them work well enough to be of any
use, can't even relie on subsequent readings on the same test subject.

Got my money back on them.

It is well known that most tomatoes run at below ph 4.6 and do not
need further acidification,

Everything I've read lately has said that tomatoes are being bred to be
less acidic, so this isn't true any more. I'm a little confused now.

Serene

Don't be, more and more tomatoes and tomato seeds sold in the USA are
only mildly acidic and need the citric acid added or some other acidifier.

George

I think you MAY BE WRONG. From what I have read, tomatoes are not
becoming less acidic across the board but what is happening is that
tomatoes are being bread the have INCREASED sugar levels. When you
increase the SUGAR, it covers the acidic "bite" to one's tongue. Thank
goodness someone covered how much citric acid to use in tomatoes. I
use one teaspoon as I often add some bell pepper and onion (very small
amount) and this is dangerous because these are NoN- ACID items and
add danger to any canned product unless they are pressure canned. If
you think that a tablespoon in a pint of tomatoes is appropriate, then
I say you have NEVER canned any tomatoes. Citric Acid, or Sour Salt,
is horribley TART and it has to be covered with added SUGAR to the
tomatoes to keep them from tasting like little children's sour candy.
Just take a pinch of Citric Acid and place it on your tongue. You will
then see what I mean. Regards - Jim in So. California

In article ,
Serene wrote:

Ray West wrote:
I've tried the ph metres, non of them work well enough to be of any
use, can't even relie on subsequent readings on the same test subject.

Got my money back on them.

It is well known that most tomatoes run at below ph 4.6 and do not
need further acidification,

Everything I've read lately has said that tomatoes are being bred to
be less acidic, so this isn't true any more. I'm a little confused now.

Serene

It's a precaution, Serene. The tomatoes may be below 4.6 -- or they may
not. I'd venture to say that most folks couldn't name the varietal they
purchase for canning and the acidification is cheap insurance.

--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
Check my new ride: http://www.jamlady.eboard.com

Melba's Jammin' wrote:
In article ,
Serene wrote:

Ray West wrote:
I've tried the ph metres, non of them work well enough to be of any
use, can't even relie on subsequent readings on the same test subject.

Got my money back on them.

It is well known that most tomatoes run at below ph 4.6 and do not
need further acidification,
Everything I've read lately has said that tomatoes are being bred to
be less acidic, so this isn't true any more. I'm a little confused now.

Serene

It's a precaution, Serene. The tomatoes may be below 4.6 -- or they may
not. I'd venture to say that most folks couldn't name the varietal they
purchase for canning and the acidification is cheap insurance.



Rutgers. ;-)

zxcvbob wrote:
It's a precaution, Serene. The tomatoes may be below 4.6 -- or
they may not. I'd venture to say that most folks couldn't name the
varietal they purchase for canning and the acidification is cheap
insurance.

Better safe than being unable to say you're sorry.

B/

Melba's Jammin' wrote:

It's a precaution, Serene. The tomatoes may be below 4.6 -- or they may
not. I'd venture to say that most folks couldn't name the varietal they
purchase for canning and the acidification is cheap insurance.


Thanks, Barb! So I have a question, then -- if I do know the
varietal (because I grew them myself), then is there someplace I
could look to see what their acidity typically is?

This stuff really fascinates the science geek in me.

Serene

jimnginger wrote:
On May 15, 3:56�pm, George Shirley wrote:
Serene wrote:
Ray West wrote:
I've tried the ph metres, non of them work well enough to be of any
use, can't even relie on subsequent readings on the same test subject.
Got my money back on them.
It is well known that most tomatoes run at below ph 4.6 and do not
need further acidification,
Everything I've read lately has said that tomatoes are being bred to be
less acidic, so this isn't true any more. I'm a little confused now.
Serene
Don't be, more and more tomatoes and tomato seeds sold in the USA are
only mildly acidic and need the citric acid added or some other acidifier.

George

I think you MAY BE WRONG. From what I have read, tomatoes are not
becoming less acidic across the board but what is happening is that
tomatoes are being bread the have INCREASED sugar levels. When you
increase the SUGAR, it covers the acidic "bite" to one's tongue. Thank
goodness someone covered how much citric acid to use in tomatoes. I
use one teaspoon as I often add some bell pepper and onion (very small
amount) and this is dangerous because these are NoN- ACID items and
add danger to any canned product unless they are pressure canned. If
you think that a tablespoon in a pint of tomatoes is appropriate, then
I say you have NEVER canned any tomatoes. Citric Acid, or Sour Salt,
is horribley TART and it has to be covered with added SUGAR to the
tomatoes to keep them from tasting like little children's sour candy.
Just take a pinch of Citric Acid and place it on your tongue. You will
then see what I mean. Regards - Jim in So. California
And where, exactly, in my post did I say you had to add a tablespoon of
citric acid? Jim, I've been canning tomatoes and other veggies for more
than sixty years but I'm actually quoting what the USDA has to say about
modern tomatoes.

If you don't have an accurate pH meter or are not using pH strips that
are somewhat accurate then you need to add citric acid or lemon juice in
the USDA recommended amounts.

On Thu, 15 May 2008 23:12:32 -0700, Serene
wrote:

Melba's Jammin' wrote:

It's a precaution, Serene. The tomatoes may be below 4.6 -- or they may
not. I'd venture to say that most folks couldn't name the varietal they
purchase for canning and the acidification is cheap insurance.


Thanks, Barb! So I have a question, then -- if I do know the
varietal (because I grew them myself), then is there someplace I
could look to see what their acidity typically is?

This stuff really fascinates the science geek in me.

Serene


In the book "All About Tomatoes" that was published by Ortho in 1976
says this: "There is probably as much variation in the pH and acidity
of tomatoes due to climate, soil, cultural practices and ripeness as
to variety differences." --U. S. D. A.

Pink, yellow, white, etc tomatoes are not necessarily lower in acid.
Newer varieties may be higher or lower in pH than the old varieties.

Another quote from the book. "You can't always taste acidity. Note
on the chart at right that honey is high in acidity" The chart lists
honey as having a pH of 4.0.
--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)

In article ,
Serene wrote:

Melba's Jammin' wrote:

It's a precaution, Serene. The tomatoes may be below 4.6 -- or they may
not. I'd venture to say that most folks couldn't name the varietal they
purchase for canning and the acidification is cheap insurance.


Thanks, Barb! So I have a question, then -- if I do know the
varietal (because I grew them myself), then is there someplace I
could look to see what their acidity typically is?

This stuff really fascinates the science geek in me.

Serene

I don't know. Ask at rec.gardens.edible (I think that's what they're
called). I'm pretty sure that if you asked the NCHFP folks they'd tell
you to acidify regardless ‹ they *have* to err on the side of caution.
The U of MN has a list (I don't know how current it is) of tomatoes with
a higher pH than 4.6.

Maybe you could trace back to wherever your plants or seeds came from to
find out more info about it. Or Google the varietal. Or check with
your local state University's ag department (assuming there is one).
Some thoughts.

--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
Check my new ride: http://www.jamlady.eboard.com

The Cook wrote:

In the book "All About Tomatoes" that was published by Ortho in 1976
says this: "There is probably as much variation in the pH and acidity
of tomatoes due to climate, soil, cultural practices and ripeness as
to variety differences." --U. S. D. A.

Pink, yellow, white, etc tomatoes are not necessarily lower in acid.
Newer varieties may be higher or lower in pH than the old varieties.

Another quote from the book. "You can't always taste acidity. Note
on the chart at right that honey is high in acidity" The chart lists
honey as having a pH of 4.0.

Thank you!

Serene

In article ,
George Shirley wrote:

jimnginger wrote:
On May 15, 3:56?pm, George Shirley wrote:
Serene wrote:
Ray West wrote:
I've tried the ph metres, non of them work well enough to be of any
use, can't even relie on subsequent readings on the same test subject.
Got my money back on them.
It is well known that most tomatoes run at below ph 4.6 and do not
need further acidification,
Everything I've read lately has said that tomatoes are being bred to be
less acidic, so this isn't true any more. I'm a little confused now.
Serene
Don't be, more and more tomatoes and tomato seeds sold in the USA are
only mildly acidic and need the citric acid added or some other acidifier.

George

I think you MAY BE WRONG. From what I have read, tomatoes are not
becoming less acidic across the board but what is happening is that
tomatoes are being bread the have INCREASED sugar levels. When you
increase the SUGAR, it covers the acidic "bite" to one's tongue. Thank
goodness someone covered how much citric acid to use in tomatoes. I
use one teaspoon as I often add some bell pepper and onion (very small
amount) and this is dangerous because these are NoN- ACID items and
add danger to any canned product unless they are pressure canned. If
you think that a tablespoon in a pint of tomatoes is appropriate, then
I say you have NEVER canned any tomatoes. Citric Acid, or Sour Salt,
is horribley TART and it has to be covered with added SUGAR to the
tomatoes to keep them from tasting like little children's sour candy.
Just take a pinch of Citric Acid and place it on your tongue. You will
then see what I mean. Regards - Jim in So. California

And where, exactly, in my post did I say you had to add a tablespoon of
citric acid? Jim, I've been canning tomatoes and other veggies for more
than sixty years but I'm actually quoting what the USDA has to say about
modern tomatoes.

If you don't have an accurate pH meter or are not using pH strips that
are somewhat accurate then you need to add citric acid or lemon juice in
the USDA recommended amounts.

I think Jim was responding to combined ideas from separate posts, Jorge
— and one of them was not your writing. Ms. Edrena (being coffee
deficient and suffering from the vapors) had stated a tablespoon of
citric acid to a pint of tomatoes in her 5/9 post. She was corrected
and contrite for her flub on 5/14. No harm, no foul. Pet the dog and
stay calm.

(I have a great sign that says "Pour the coffee and back away slowly."
"-)
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
Check my new ride: http://www.jamlady.eboard.com

In article
,
jimnginger wrote:

increase the SUGAR, it covers the acidic "bite" to one's tongue. Thank
goodness someone covered how much citric acid to use in tomatoes. I
use one teaspoon as I often add some bell pepper and onion (very small
amount)

Do you use an actual recipe when you're making your "stewed-type"
tomatoes, Jim? The U of MN (Gophers, go!!) has a tested recipe for
them. It's pretty good. :-)

http://www.extension.umn.edu/foodsaf.../tomatomixture
..pdf

NOTE that that recipe has times for processing in a BWB and that it
doesn't include any specific acidification information. The two most
recently-published tomes I own have recipes for stewed tomatoes (I
haven't compared the proportions of the ingredients, though) but have
processing times for pressure canning.

I might have to ask the folks at the U about that. :-/
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
Check my new ride: http://www.jamlady.eboard.com

"George Shirley" wrote

than sixty years but I'm actually quoting what the USDA has to say about
modern tomatoes.

If you don't have an accurate pH meter or are not using pH strips that are
somewhat accurate then you need to add citric acid or lemon juice in the
USDA recommended amounts.

George, can we cut to the chase slightly for me? I'd like to try this for
the first time. I have access only to the water boiling methods. If I make
a thick sauce with just tomatoes and a few dried spices such as black pepper
and a little cayenne, how much lemon juice should I add to a quart? What I
have right now is the 'real lemon concentrate' but I can find out how much
water to add to that to make 'equal to one lemon' pretty easy grin.

I don't want 'leomony sauce' but I also don't want to be unsafe. I have 3
versions of tomatoes and no way to know if they are 'reduced acid' so it's
safer to assume they are.