I have an old Italian recipe which calls for "carne salata
vergellata." I am fairly certain that the "carne salata" is "salted
meat," but probably not bacon. Can someone tell me about the "vergellata"?
Thank you very much for your time.

--
Regards, Frank Young
703-527-7684
Post Office Box 2793, Kensington, Maryland 20891
"Videmus nunc per speculum in aenigmate... Nunc cognosco ex parte"

I have an old Italian recipe which calls for "carne salata
vergellata." I am fairly certain that the "carne salata" is
"salted meat," but probably not bacon. Can someone tell me
about the "vergellata"?

Something in the brawn/potted-haugh/potted-heid/head-cheese family?

======== Email to "j-c" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce ========
Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760
http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html food intolerance data & recipes,
Mac logic fonts, Scots traditional music files and CD-ROMs of Scottish music.

On 2 Jun 2004 15:50:22 GMT, (bogus address)
wrote:


I have an old Italian recipe which calls for "carne salata
vergellata." I am fairly certain that the "carne salata" is
"salted meat," but probably not bacon. Can someone tell me
about the "vergellata"?

Something in the brawn/potted-haugh/potted-heid/head-cheese family?

Going by a bit of googling, I get the impression that this is a sort
of pancetta or bacon type of meat (i do not know if it is pork,
sorry), salted, indeed, and striated with the meat and fat.

Not 100% accurate, to be sure, but perhaps a bit of a clue to further
your search.

Boron

A web search on "vergellata" brings up a large number of prints down on
"vergellata paper" (or carte vergellata). Perhaps this is something baked
in parchment?

toodles, gretchen

--On Wednesday, June 02, 2004 3:50 PM +0000 bogus address
wrote:


I have an old Italian recipe which calls for "carne salata
vergellata." I am fairly certain that the "carne salata" is
"salted meat," but probably not bacon. Can someone tell me
about the "vergellata"?

Something in the brawn/potted-haugh/potted-heid/head-cheese family?

======== Email to "j-c" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce
======== Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22
4PU; 0131 6604760 http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html food
intolerance data & recipes, Mac logic fonts, Scots traditional music
files and CD-ROMs of Scottish music.

In article ,
Boron Elgar wrote:
I have an old Italian recipe which calls for "carne salata
vergellata." I am fairly certain that the "carne salata" is
"salted meat," but probably not bacon. Can someone tell me
about the "vergellata"?
Going by a bit of googling, I get the impression that this is a sort
of pancetta or bacon type of meat (i do not know if it is pork,
sorry), salted, indeed, and striated with the meat and fat.
Not 100% accurate, to be sure, but perhaps a bit of a clue to further
your search.

Yes, I found that, too. The word "vergellata" seems to apply only to meat
and to papermaking. I also found "carta vergellata," which seems to be a
sort of heavy stock made in former times to be used for lithographs,
aquarelles, and the like.

Unfortunately, the Grande Dizionario della Lingua Italiana is not yet up
to the letter "V" -- at least the set to which I have access -- so that
avenue is out.

I have tried one or two Italian delicatessens with no result. The meat
people respond "Huh" when I ask for "carne salata vergellata."

Can some kind soul tell me what "vergellata" actually means?

Thanks


--
Regards, Frank Young
703-527-7684
Post Office Box 2793, Kensington, Maryland 20891
"Videmus nunc per speculum in aenigmate... Nunc cognosco ex parte"

(The Bibliographer) wrote in
:

Yes, I found that, too. The word "vergellata" seems to apply only to
meat and to papermaking. I also found "carta vergellata," which seems
to be a sort of heavy stock made in former times to be used for
lithographs, aquarelles, and the like.

Unfortunately, the Grande Dizionario della Lingua Italiana is not
yet up to the letter "V" -- at least the set to which I have access --
so that avenue is out.

I have tried one or two Italian delicatessens with no result. The meat
people respond "Huh" when I ask for "carne salata vergellata."

Can some kind soul tell me what "vergellata" actually means?

Thanks



Could it possibly be sliced paper-thin? Like prosciutto? What is the
recipe like?
d

In ,
The Bibliographer wrote :

I have an old Italian recipe which calls for "carne salata
vergellata." I am fairly certain that the "carne salata" is "salted
meat," but probably not bacon. Can someone tell me about the
"vergellata"? Thank you very much for your time.

From : CRISTOFORO MESSISBUGO secolo XVI
quoted in http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Stud...dizionario.htm
Vergellata : vergata di grasso e di magro

So salted meat streaked of fat and lean, sorry my english isn't quite up to
date.

--
Salutations, greetings,
Guiraud Belissen, Château du Ciel, Drachenwald
Chris CII, Rennes, France

"Christophe Bachmann" wrote

I have an old Italian recipe which calls for "carne
salata
vergellata." I am fairly certain that the "carne salata"
is "salted
meat," but probably not bacon. Can someone tell me about
the
"vergellata"? Thank you very much for your time.

quoted in
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Stud...dizionario.htm
Vergellata : vergata di grasso e di magro
So salted meat streaked of fat and lean

I couldn't find "vergellata" in any online Italian
dictionary. Is the word related to "vergata"?

"Vergata di grasso e di magro/salted meat streaked of fat
and lean" sounds like a version of what we call "streaky
bacon" in English.

Where's Pastorio?

--
Bob
Kanyak's Doghouse
http://www.kanyak.com

In article ,
deiusenet wrote:
(The Bibliographer) wrote in
:
Can some kind soul tell me what "vergellata" actually means?
Could it possibly be sliced paper-thin? Like prosciutto? What is the
recipe like?

No, I don't think so. The meat is not adjectivally limited by the quality
of paper, but rather both the meat and the paper are limited by the
quality of "vergellata" -- at least that is how I construe the examples.

Here is the recipe:

Piglia li peselli con le scorze come stanno & falli dare uno boglio, &
togli carne salata vergellata & tagliala in fette sottili et lunghe mezo
dito, & frigile uno pocho & dipoi mettili idetti peselli aquocere con la
dicta carne & ponivi uno pocho di agresto, uno pocho di sabba, o zucharo &
uno pocho di chanella & similemente si frigano li fasoli.

The orthography and usage is fifteenth century.

The critical point is, I think, defining the adjective "vergellata" as it
applies to salted meat (rather than "bacon" or "pancetta").

Thanks for any help.


--
Regards, Frank Young
703-527-7684
Post Office Box 2793, Kensington, Maryland 20891
"Videmus nunc per speculum in aenigmate... Nunc cognosco ex parte"

In article ,
Christophe Bachmann wrote:
From : CRISTOFORO MESSISBUGO secolo XVI
quoted in http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Stud...dizionario.htm
Vergellata : vergata di grasso e di magro
So salted meat streaked of fat and lean, sorry my english isn't quite up to
date.

So "vergellata" stems in common with "vergata" (streaked, lined)!

I can see how modern American bacon can be so described. Perhaps that is
it, indeed -- although I still wonder about the constructional
relationship between the Renaissance and the modern Italian words.

Thanks.

--
Regards, Frank Young
703-527-7684
Post Office Box 2793, Kensington, Maryland 20891
"Videmus nunc per speculum in aenigmate... Nunc cognosco ex parte"

In article ,
Opinicus wrote:
"Christophe Bachmann" wrote
I have an old Italian recipe which calls for "carne salata
vergellata."
quoted in
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Stud...dizionario.htm
Vergellata : vergata di grasso e di magro
So salted meat streaked of fat and lean

I couldn't find "vergellata" in any online Italian
dictionary. Is the word related to "vergata"?

I know -- I tried all of them I could find.

"Vergata di grasso e di magro/salted meat streaked of fat
and lean" sounds like a version of what we call "streaky
bacon" in English.

Off to find more about streaky bacon.

Thanks.
--
Regards, Frank Young
703-527-7684
Post Office Box 2793, Kensington, Maryland 20891
"Videmus nunc per speculum in aenigmate... Nunc cognosco ex parte"

Opinicus wrote:

"Christophe Bachmann" wrote


I have an old Italian recipe which calls for "carne

salata

vergellata." I am fairly certain that the "carne salata"

is "salted

meat," but probably not bacon. Can someone tell me about

the

"vergellata"? Thank you very much for your time.

quoted in

http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Stud...dizionario.htm

Vergellata : vergata di grasso e di magro
So salted meat streaked of fat and lean

I couldn't find "vergellata" in any online Italian
dictionary. Is the word related to "vergata"?

"Vergata di grasso e di magro/salted meat streaked of fat
and lean" sounds like a version of what we call "streaky
bacon" in English.

Where's Pastorio?

"Vergata" comes closest to "layered" as in geology, or "laid" as in
papermaking. So, yes, bacon-looking meats with cross-sections showing
fat and lean strata.

Streaky bacon in Brittania and just plain bacon in the US. Canadian
bacon is a different, equally lovely creature.

Pastorio

On 1 Jun 2004 18:02:50 -0400, (The Bibliographer)
wrote:


I have an old Italian recipe which calls for "carne salata
vergellata." I am fairly certain that the "carne salata" is "salted
meat," but probably not bacon. Can someone tell me about the "vergellata"?
Thank you very much for your time.

So, yes, bacon-looking meats with cross-sections showing
fat and lean strata.

Streaky bacon in Brittania and just plain bacon in the US.

For Italian adjectives, you want to look up the masculine singular
forms, not the feminine forms (or any plural ones). So, vergellato
(masculine) instead of vergelleta (feminine) or vergellati (masculine
plural) or vergellate (feminine plural).

If you google that word, vergellato, you'll find this page:
http://www.emmeti.it/Cucina/Lazio/St...RT.107.it.html

which is quite dense, but it mentions

"ponendovi quattro lardelli di presciutto vergellato (= vergato di
grasso e di magro) per ciascun pezzo"

Place 4 slices of prosciutto vergellato (= streaked with fat and lean)
per each piece.

(a lardello means slice or rasher, always referring to fat, or to what
we would call loosely, bacon)

Though vergellato is probably from a verb such as vergellare, that
doesn't help me as I don't know what vergellare means, either. I think
you're right about it being an older word.

All this is just to say I think everybody is on the right track,
though someone on it.hobby.cucina could probably pin the term right
down.

I think the Italian word that people might use today for streaky might
be something like "lardellato", perhaps.

"Randal Oulton" wrote

For Italian adjectives, you want to look up the masculine
singular
forms, not the feminine forms (or any plural ones). So,
vergellato
(masculine) instead of vergelleta (feminine) or vergellati
(masculine
plural) or vergellate (feminine plural).

Ah, the demon of grammatical gender strikes again. As a
former Latin teacher I should have remembered this.

Here's a very interesting page Google fetched up on
"vergellato"

"Five stuffing recipes from 16th century Italian texts"
http://www.geocities.com/helewyse/stuffing.html

--
Bob
Kanyak's Doghouse
http://www.kanyak.com

My Italian girlfriend doesn't know the word, nor do any of her fairly
substantial dictionaries of the current language.

I'll be in a good library on monday; if it's still a mystery then, I'll
see what I can find.

Lazarus

Ps. We could do with a few Italian members on this newsgroup. And maybe
some French, Lebanese or Egyptian and Chinese folk. Would save a lot
of bother.

--
Remover the rock from the email address