"Frogleg" wrote in message
...

When ever I see lobster here, it makes me wonder about the first guy
who picked on of these up on the coast of Maine or somewhere, and
decided to eat it.

Never mind lobsters, what about raw oysters? I love 'em, but I can
easily imagine gnawing tree bark in preference to being the first
person to try one.

I used to wonder the same thing about blue cheese...

--
Bob
Kanyak's Doghouse
http://kanyak.com

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 22:25:29 GMT, Frogleg wrote:

On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:55:30 -0800, Dr Pepper
wrote:

When ever I see lobster here, it makes me wonder about the first guy
who picked on of these up on the coast of Maine or somewhere, and
decided to eat it.

Never mind lobsters, what about raw oysters? I love 'em, but I can
easily imagine gnawing tree bark in preference to being the first
person to try one.

Whether the Brits ate them or not, I feel sure the French were pulling
lobsters out of the Channel long before Columbus.

Whoever ate mollusks and crustaceans first was probably a
hunter-gatherer who routinely ate grubs and bugs anyway. Think of the
trouble he saved if he could grab one huge arthropod instead of
hundreds of little ones.

Michener's novel Chesapeake begins with a young outcast from an Indian
tribe observing a Great Blue Heron stabbing and eating a crab. He
then decides to try one himself.



Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a


The sound of a Great Blue Heron's wingbeats going by your head

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 21:39:56 +0100, Alf Christophersen
wrote:

at least with salmon and lobsters you get very tired of it after three
days repeating it.

It comes to my mind my mother telling about a terrible marriage
present. In the saummer after their wedding, they found outside the
hut a big basket with 200 lobsters. They had almost no idea about what
to do about, but had to drive home and give all neighbours some of
them, but of course did eat lobsters for several days themselves too.
This was back in 1939, so no fridge, nor freezer available at that
time except a ice block fridge which could be partly used at home.
They didn't eat lobsters for many years afterwards (many years after
war she told me)

On 06 Feb 2004 16:11:03 GMT, (ASmith1946) wrote:

Oysters, on the other hand, were so common in New York during colonial times
that they were considered both a delicacy and food for the poor.

Back in 1974/75 I worked as a teacher on an fisherman island about 70
km from shore in Northern norway. There were two fishing industries
where the fishermen could deliver their catches, but they didn't
accept salmon and trout because it was almost no market for it since
it would take far too long time to transport the fish before it could
be eaten, so it would be rather oxidiced before eaten. They got of
course salmon daily in their net, so the freezers was full of them in
almost every home and it was the only fish I would get for free if I
cared about eating them. I stopped eating free salmon after just a few
days :-) So I understand quite well farm workers in elder days
refusing to eat it because the farm could catch as much salmon daily
for free as needed for feeding the workers. But very few farms had
such rights. My grandmothers farm had, and has such a privilege still
as I know. (But now they sell the shares to sport fishermen)

On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 23:45:31 -0500, Rodney Myrvaagnes
wrote:

Maybe Florida rock lobsters. Certainly not true of New England
lobsters (_homarus_).

While it is customary to serve them with melted butter on the side, I
and others often forget to dip them.

remember to get a sample when visiting old home country (but, it is
extremely expensive today :-( During the period of fishery (Oct. 1
till April 1.) you have to pay btw. 600 and 1000 NOK pr kg ($90-$140
pr kg)

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 19:42:35 +0100, Alf Christophersen
wrote:

On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 23:45:31 -0500, Rodney Myrvaagnes
wrote:

Maybe Florida rock lobsters. Certainly not true of New England
lobsters (_homarus_).

While it is customary to serve them with melted butter on the side, I
and others often forget to dip them.

remember to get a sample when visiting old home country (but, it is
extremely expensive today :-( During the period of fishery (Oct. 1
till April 1.) you have to pay btw. 600 and 1000 NOK pr kg ($90-$140
pr kg)

Wow! I didn't know they grew there. I last visited in 1958, in
Aalesund. My uncle had a herring seiner and there was a codfish-drying
plant nearby. Whale meat was available in the market, but I don't
think I ever saw a lobster.

BTW, Alf, I am not a native Norwegian, in spite of my name. My father
came to the US in 1929. I was born in New York state.



Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a

"Hawg Polo?" . . . "Hawg Polo"

On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 08:47:07 +0200, "Opinicus"
wrote:

"Frogleg" wrote

Never mind lobsters, what about raw oysters? I love 'em, but I can
easily imagine gnawing tree bark in preference to being the first
person to try one.

I used to wonder the same thing about blue cheese...

Indeed. That's an item that occurred to me, too. Wasn't moldy bread
(penicillin) slapped on medieval battle wounds? Yet many bread molds
are toxic. How is it we treasure aged Stilton, and return packages of
molded cheddar to the supermarket?

In article , Frogleg
wrote:

Wasn't moldy bread
(penicillin) slapped on medieval battle wounds?

Was it? Can you give documentation?

L

--
Remover the rock from the email address

In article , Frogleg
wrote:

Yet many bread molds
are toxic.

Which?

L

--
Remover the rock from the email address

Yet many bread molds are toxic.
Which?

from M.D. Northolt & P.S.S. Soentoko, "Fungal growth on foodstuffs
related to mycotoxin contamination", in Samson, Hoekstra & van
Oorschut (eds), _Introduction to Food-Borne Fungi_, 1984:

Penicillium brevicompactum
Penicillium roqueforti
Penicillium verrucosum var. cyclopium
Penicillium verrucosum var. verrucosum

They mention only that these are a significant source of mycotoxin
contamination, not what the effects of the toxins are. Some of the
toxins are well-known, others I've never heard of before.

======== Email to "j-c" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce ========
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In article , bogus address
wrote:

Yet many bread molds are toxic.
Which?

from M.D. Northolt & P.S.S. Soentoko, "Fungal growth on foodstuffs
related to mycotoxin contamination", in Samson, Hoekstra & van
Oorschut (eds), _Introduction to Food-Borne Fungi_, 1984:

Penicillium brevicompactum
Penicillium roqueforti
Isn't that the one in Roquefort cheese? Doesn't seem to have done me
much harm.

L

--
Remover the rock from the email address

In article , Lazarus
Cooke wrote:

Penicillium roqueforti

See http://www.epa.gov/opptintr/biotech/fra/fra008.htm

2. Risks to Humans

P. roqueforti is a benign, nonpathogenic organism. Among
the literature reviewed for this assessment, there has been only
one reported case of pathogenicity.

L

--
Remover the rock from the email address

[toxic moulds in bread]
Penicillium roqueforti
See http://www.epa.gov/opptintr/biotech/fra/fra008.htm
P. roqueforti is a benign, nonpathogenic organism. Among
the literature reviewed for this assessment, there has been only
one reported case of pathogenicity.

The others were probably more important - P. verrucosum produces
citrinin and ochratoxin-A, which are implicated in Balkan epidemic
nephropathy.

Rye and maize are more susceptible to mycotoxin contamination than
wheat or wheat products, its seems. But since the rate of toxin
production varies with storage conditions, and does not always
correlate with fungal growth rate, it doesn't seem that anyone can
predict the real extent of these hazards. There is more on this
in P.G. Mantle, "Current views on the occurrence and significance
of Penicillium toxins", in _Filamentous Fungi in Foods and Feeds_,
supplement of the _Journal of Applied Bacteriology_, volume 67, 1989.

======== Email to "j-c" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce ========
Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760
http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html food intolerance data & recipes,
Mac logic fonts, Scots traditional music files and CD-ROMs of Scottish music.

In article , bogus address
wrote:

Rye and maize are more susceptible to mycotoxin contamination than
wheat or wheat products, its seems. But since the rate of toxin
production varies with storage conditions, and does not always
correlate with fungal growth rate, it doesn't seem that anyone can
predict the real extent of these hazards.

I think this is nitpicking. Bread made from wheat is an incredibly safe
food. I'm glad to say (especially in view of one of the very
interesting articles on Bob Pastorio's hygiene site) that in most parts
of europe it's still handled by hand - you pick up the bread you want,
and hand it to the shopkeeper, who hands it back to you. Essentially
wheat bread moulds are not harmful. Millions upon millions of people
have tested this in an experiment that's gone on for thousands of
years. Rye is a very different business.

L

--
Remover the rock from the email address

Rye and maize are more susceptible to mycotoxin contamination than
wheat or wheat products, its seems. But since the rate of toxin
production varies with storage conditions, and does not always
correlate with fungal growth rate, it doesn't seem that anyone can
predict the real extent of these hazards.
I think this is nitpicking. Bread made from wheat is an incredibly
safe food. [...] Essentially wheat bread moulds are not harmful.

I suspect the real reason they aren't harmful is that people don't
eat them. The sources I quoted were comparing moulds on bread with
those on whole (non-wheat) grains. If you have a load of mouldy
rye or maize to dispose of, you can just mill it and your customers
will be none the wiser until it's too late. A batch of mouldy bread
is obviously inedible and you can only throw it out.

======== Email to "j-c" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce ========
Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760
http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html food intolerance data & recipes,
Mac logic fonts, Scots traditional music files and CD-ROMs of Scottish music.