Just on a whim, I input the url http://www.hornandhardard.com/ and it
turns out somebody owns the trademark and is trying to make a go of it as
a line of coffeehouses.

"Bryan J. Maloney" wrote in message

Just on a whim, I input the url http://www.hornandhardard.com/ and it
turns out somebody owns the trademark and is trying to make a go of it as
a line of coffeehouses.

(Replace the last "d" with a "t" everybody...) ;-)

Here's the link to their "History" page:
http://www.hornandhardart.com/history.htm

Very interesting and very nostalgic. I remember H&H fondly from my childhood
days in Manhattan.

--
Bob
Kanyak's Doghouse
http://kanyak.com

"Bryan J. Maloney" wrote in message
93.32...


Just on a whim, I input the url http://www.hornandhardard.com/ and it
turns out somebody owns the trademark and is trying to make a go of it as
a line of coffeehouses.

Here is a favorite recipe from Horn and Hardart:
Charlie

HORN AND HARDART'S BAKED MACARONI AND CHEESE



Recipe by: Horn and Hardart's Automats
Posted by: ThymeNTide, rfr, 13SEP98



1 tbs. butter
1 tbs. all-purpose flour
3 cups milk
1 tsp. salt
dash freshly ground white pepper
dash of cayenne pepper
2 cups shredded Cheddar cheese
1/2 lb. elbow macaroni, fully cooked and drained
1/2 cup canned tomatoes, drained and chopped
2 tsp. sugar


Preheat oven to 350F. Grease a 1.5 qt. baking dish. Melt the butter in a
saucepan over medium-low heat. Whisk in the flour, then add the milk, salt,
and both peppers. Stir almost constantly until the mixture thickens and is
smooth, 8 to 10 minutes. Add the cheese and cook, stirring, until it melts.
Remove from the heat. In a mixing bowl, combine the macaroni and the sauce.
Stir in the tomatoes and sugar. Transfer the macaroni mixture to the greased
baking dish. Bake until the surface browns, 30 to 40 minutes. Serves 2 to 6.

(Subject changed from "Horn & Hardart")

"Charles Gifford" wrote in message news:bTJSb.3891

HORN AND HARDART'S BAKED MACARONI AND CHEESE
8snip!
2 tsp. sugar

Another US-origin recipe for a savory dish that includes sugar...

Why? Why does sugar get put into so many unlikely things in North America?

--
Bob, an expat Yank

Kanyak's Doghouse
http://kanyak.com

In article ,
Opinicus wrote:

Why? Why does sugar get put into so many unlikely things in North America?

I hear that it's much more common in Sweden than the US. The US has
picked up everyone else's weirdnesses, but hasn't necessarily invented
that many.

-- greg

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 21:11:40 +0200, "Opinicus"
wrote:

(Subject changed from "Horn & Hardart")

"Charles Gifford" wrote in message news:bTJSb.3891

HORN AND HARDART'S BAKED MACARONI AND CHEESE
8snip!
2 tsp. sugar

Another US-origin recipe for a savory dish that includes sugar...

Why? Why does sugar get put into so many unlikely things in North America?

AFAIK, it's regional in the US. I was surprised when I moved from CA
to VA to find 'sweet' in salad dressings and vegetables and all manner
of foods that I considered non-sweet. OTOH, sometimes sugar in small
(very small) quantities is more of a 'seasoning.' in some dishes. I
have a jar of palm sugar specifically for an Indonesian beef stew
recipe that calls for (as I recall) 1Tblsp for 1lb meat and a whole
raft of onions.

Frogleg wrote:

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 21:11:40 +0200, "Opinicus"
wrote:

(Subject changed from "Horn & Hardart")

"Charles Gifford" wrote in message news:bTJSb.3891

HORN AND HARDART'S BAKED MACARONI AND CHEESE
8snip!
2 tsp. sugar

Another US-origin recipe for a savory dish that includes sugar...

Why? Why does sugar get put into so many unlikely things in North America?

AFAIK, it's regional in the US. I was surprised when I moved from CA
to VA to find 'sweet' in salad dressings and vegetables and all manner
of foods that I considered non-sweet. OTOH, sometimes sugar in small
(very small) quantities is more of a 'seasoning.' in some dishes. I
have a jar of palm sugar specifically for an Indonesian beef stew
recipe that calls for (as I recall) 1Tblsp for 1lb meat and a whole
raft of onions.

In Europe you find sugar, honey, or other sweet items in savoury dishes
to counter the acidity of other ingredients. Red wine and tomatoes come
to mind.
--
Kate XXXXXX
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

In article , Kate Dicey
wrote:

In Europe you find sugar, honey, or other sweet items in savoury dishes
to counter the acidity of other ingredients. Red wine and tomatoes come
to mind.

Also of course all the sweet sauces that go with meat - mint sauce with
lamb, currant sauce with game etc. - what the French call
(disparagingly) "biftek a la confiture" (steak with jam) - even though,
of course, the French for gooseberry is "groseille a maquereau" because
even they have a gooseberry sauce with mackeral. And then there are all
their sweet/savoury imports from the Maghreb.

Lazarus

--
Remover the rock from the email address

Alan wrote in message
...

For whatever reason, we in North American have gotten used to a lot of
foods having sugar in them -- especially prepared foods from food
factories.
I don't like it, but it seems to have spread over the last 40, or so,
years.

I'm wondering if it's because of:

1. Baby foods with sugar added to them to make them more palatable to mother
and baby

and/or

2. Sugar-frosted breakfast cereals targeted at kids

--
Bob
Kanyak's Doghouse
http://kanyak.com

Opinicus wrote:

Alan wrote in message
...

For whatever reason, we in North American have gotten used to a lot of
foods having sugar in them -- especially prepared foods from food
factories.
I don't like it, but it seems to have spread over the last 40, or so,
years.

I'm wondering if it's because of:

1. Baby foods with sugar added to them to make them more palatable to mother
and baby

and/or

2. Sugar-frosted breakfast cereals targeted at kids

Good grief! Is sugar allowed in baby foods in the USA? As far as I
know, it isn't in the UK. It certainly wasn't in any if the (admittedly
very few) baby foods I bought for my son, 9 or so years ago. Nor was
salt. Mostly I made my own, so salt and sugar were never an issue.
Food processors are wonderful things...

The breakfast cereals we have in the house: Wheetabix, Shredded Wheat,
no added sugar muesli made by Canterbury Wholefoods (has whole hazel
nuts and biiiig chunks of Brazils in it - yummy, but hard going!), and
Kellogg's Fruit & Fibre, which does have sugar in, but isn't coated in
it like Frosties. And, naturally, porridge oats and pinhead oatmeal!


DH eats the Man Sized muesli, I eat the Wheetabix, Shredded Wheat and
porridge, son occasionally eats the Fruit & Fibre or Wheetabix, but
would usually rather have a cold meat or cheese sandwich for breakfast,
or a cold sausage...

--
Kate XXXXXX
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

Kate Dicey nattered on
:

Opinicus wrote:

Alan wrote in message
...

For whatever reason, we in North American have gotten used to a lot
of foods having sugar in them -- especially prepared foods from
food factories.
I don't like it, but it seems to have spread over the last 40, or
so, years.

I'm wondering if it's because of:

1. Baby foods with sugar added to them to make them more palatable to
mother and baby

and/or

2. Sugar-frosted breakfast cereals targeted at kids

Good grief! Is sugar allowed in baby foods in the USA?

Allowed, yes. However, some brands make it a point of advertising that
they don't add it.

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 23:33:50 +0000, Kate Dicey
wrote:



Good grief! Is sugar allowed in baby foods in the USA? As far as I
know, it isn't in the UK. It certainly wasn't in any if the (admittedly
very few) baby foods I bought for my son, 9 or so years ago. Nor was
salt.

Seeing that I have some baby food around, I went and got out a jar.
It's the meat, so it's not infant food. No veggies, either, so the
seasoning might differ. Fussy cats happen to sometimes like the taste
of baby food, but only of the meat kind. In any case, the jar of
turkey lists under ingredients: finely ground turkey, water, and
cornstarch. However, off to the side, in the nutrition facts, it
shows 35 mg sodium and 110 mg potassium. Sugars are a 0.

Hmm. How did that 145 mg of various salts turn up in the pure turkey,
water, and cornstarch? I know. Hard water.

I know that salt was in baby foods 30 years ago. Probably sugar, too.
Parents sometimes get babies to eat by pretending their food is yummy.
Therefore, they occasionally get a taste. If it doesn't meet adult
standards (such as they were in that less than health conscious time),
the parents wouldn't give it to their kids. Therefore many baby foods
were seasoned to look and smell good to adults. Animal foods still
are. They have to be palatable looking and smelling enough for owners
to be willing to touch them. Very fussy animals, such as cats, often
have owners who like the food to even look like real human food.
--
rbc: vixen Fairly harmless

Hit reply to email. But strip out the 'invalid.'
Though I'm very slow to respond.
http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Opinicus muttered....

Alan wrote in message
...

For whatever reason, we in North American have gotten used to a lot
of foods having sugar in them -- especially prepared foods from food
factories.
I don't like it, but it seems to have spread over the last 40, or so,
years.

I'm wondering if it's because of:

1. Baby foods with sugar added to them to make them more palatable to
mother and baby

and/or

2. Sugar-frosted breakfast cereals targeted at kids


I think that modern "health" concerns have removed most/all of the added
sugar from baby food (and most of it was added not only for baby tastes but
to be appealing to moms who tasted).

Kids only? When it came to cereal, that which was first aimed at kids
certainly broadened the target to adults (especially with all the sweet
granola).

I subscribe to an older, more historic approach....

We (hosts) serve to ourselves and to guests sweetened
foods/sauces/condiments as part of ancient cultural memory, that we were of
an affluence which allowed us to purchase sweeteners (in a time when sugars
were vastly more expensive/harder to get than today).

Certainly, in the US South, "sweetening" has cultural/societal
implications. Pooor man's cornbread remains sugarless unto this day, while
most of the current mixes - the cornbreads of even modest affluence - are
so heavily sugared as to be unpalatable. "Sweet" tea, massively pre-
sugared, is a typical restaurant and home manifestation of "moving up"
among the lower and lower middle class venues in which it is most often
available. Unsugared hams are hard to find, and most of the pink loaves
currently purveyed are more sweet than they are "hammy".

TMO

lid nattered on
m:

Hmm. How did that 145 mg of various salts turn up in the pure turkey,
water, and cornstarch? I know. Hard water.

They were already in the turkey tissue. Believe it or not, contrary to
the propaganda foisted upon us by the Food Police and other leftists, we
do actually need some salts in our diet.


are. They have to be palatable looking and smelling enough for owners
to be willing to touch them.

Yup, otherwise, dog food would look and smell exactly like cat poop.

Olivers nattered on
:

We (hosts) serve to ourselves and to guests sweetened
foods/sauces/condiments as part of ancient cultural memory, that we
were of an affluence which allowed us to purchase sweeteners (in a
time when sugars were vastly more expensive/harder to get than today).

And in the present day is a symbol of poverty, given that salt, sugar, and
fat are the hallmarks of the lower-class/prole diet.

venues in which it is most often available. Unsugared hams are hard
to find

But thank the Powers that Be that they still can be found. (Indeed, even
unsmoked--just cured and aged.)