I'm looking for a history of the French "quatre-epices" (four spice
blend, usually pepper, cinnamon, clove, and allspice or ginger). I know
what it is. I know what it's used for. I know the variations (some
say it's half pepper and half the others, some say it's equal parts,
some say white pepper, some say black, some say a mixture).

What I'm looking for specifically if it's "indigenous" to farmhouse
Provence. It would seem from the composition it's a coastal thingum,
brought by Arab traders, but I'm looking for more inland.

Thanks!

B/

Brian Mailman wrote:

I'm looking for a history of the French "quatre-epices" (four spice
blend, usually pepper, cinnamon, clove, and allspice or ginger). I know
what it is. I know what it's used for. I know the variations (some
say it's half pepper and half the others, some say it's equal parts,
some say white pepper, some say black, some say a mixture).

What I'm looking for specifically if it's "indigenous" to farmhouse
Provence. It would seem from the composition it's a coastal thingum,
brought by Arab traders, but I'm looking for more inland.

Thanks!

B/

You could try he
http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/quatre-%25C3%25A9pices and he
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%25C3%2589pice and maybe he
http://www.lesepicesrient.fr/12/2008...n-utilisation/


Obviously anything from Wikipedia must be taken with a grain of salt :P

Arri London wrote:

Brian Mailman wrote:

I'm looking for a history of the French "quatre-epices" (four spice
blend, usually pepper, cinnamon, clove, and allspice or ginger). I know
what it is. I know what it's used for. I know the variations (some
say it's half pepper and half the others, some say it's equal parts,
some say white pepper, some say black, some say a mixture).

What I'm looking for specifically if it's "indigenous" to farmhouse
Provence. It would seem from the composition it's a coastal thingum,
brought by Arab traders, but I'm looking for more inland.

Thanks!

B/

You could try he
http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/quatre-%25C3%25A9pices and he
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%25C3%2589pice and maybe he

both "Le titre de la page demandée est invalide" -- not found that is.
If those are the equivalent of the Anglaise pages, they'll not be useful
for me.

http://www.lesepicesrient.fr/12/2008...n-utilisation/

Thanks, but that one seems more concerned with the usage of 5-spice (the
Chinese blend) and composition. As I said, I know what quatre-epices is
(the 4-spice blend used in French cuisine), I know the composition (and
variations). And I know how it's used--what I'm looking for
specifically are the historic usage and in particular in Provence
country/farm cookery.

Obviously anything from Wikipedia must be taken with a grain of salt :P

Heh, as they say. Yah, I use Wikipedia for info sources, but I don't
take it as authoritive.

B/

Brian Mailman wrote:

Arri London wrote:

Brian Mailman wrote:

I'm looking for a history of the French "quatre-epices" (four spice
blend, usually pepper, cinnamon, clove, and allspice or ginger). I know
what it is. I know what it's used for. I know the variations (some
say it's half pepper and half the others, some say it's equal parts,
some say white pepper, some say black, some say a mixture).

What I'm looking for specifically if it's "indigenous" to farmhouse
Provence. It would seem from the composition it's a coastal thingum,
brought by Arab traders, but I'm looking for more inland.

Thanks!

B/

You could try he
http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/quatre-%25C3%25A9pices and he
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%25C3%2589pice and maybe he

both "Le titre de la page demandée est invalide" -- not found that is.
If those are the equivalent of the Anglaise pages, they'll not be useful
for me.


Didn't read the English pages so can't help you there. Thinking the 'e'
of epice(s) got knocked off somehow. Sorry if it was my doing.

http://www.lesepicesrient.fr/12/2008...n-utilisation/

Thanks, but that one seems more concerned with the usage of 5-spice (the
Chinese blend) and composition. As I said, I know what quatre-epices is
(the 4-spice blend used in French cuisine), I know the composition (and
variations). And I know how it's used--what I'm looking for
specifically are the historic usage and in particular in Provence
country/farm cookery.

There were other references to quatre-epices buried in the site,
otherwise wouldn't have given the link. What about 'Larousse
Gastronomique'? My copy is in a box somewhere, so not helpful right now.


Obviously anything from Wikipedia must be taken with a grain of salt :P

Heh, as they say. Yah, I use Wikipedia for info sources, but I don't
take it as authoritive.

B/

Arri London wrote:

Brian Mailman wrote:

You could try he
http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/quatre-%25C3%25A9pices and he
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%25C3%2589pice and maybe he

both "Le titre de la page demandée est invalide" -- not found that
is. If those are the equivalent of the Anglaise pages, they'll not
be useful for me.


Didn't read the English pages so can't help you there. Thinking the
'e' of epice(s) got knocked off somehow. Sorry if it was my doing.

Doing some searching around after a e-without-accent didn't work... the
first is pretty much the English page; the second one is helpful to
someone looking for more about spices in general.

http://www.lesepicesrient.fr/12/2008...n-utilisation/

Thanks, but that one seems more concerned with the usage of 5-spice
(the Chinese blend) and composition. As I said, I know what
quatre-epices is (the 4-spice blend used in French cuisine), I know
the composition (and variations). And I know how it's used--what
I'm looking for specifically are the historic usage and in
particular in Provence country/farm cookery.

There were other references to quatre-epices buried in the site,
otherwise wouldn't have given the link.

What references, where? If you could cut and paste the text you're
referring to, I'd appreciate it. I only see descriptions, compositions,
utilizations, as the caption says--the origine is limited to a mention
of China and Vietnam. There seems to be some commentary about the
replacement of Sichuan pepper with black pepper, but there's nothing
like what I'm looking for. I admit that while I read French, I might
not be as influenza as some! So if you could point to the part that's
revelant to my quest? Thanks.

What about 'Larousse Gastronomique'? My copy is in a box somewhere,
so not helpful right now.

No, just the note it's in usage, and that every vendor makes a different
one.

B/

Brian Mailman wrote:

Arri London wrote:

Brian Mailman wrote:

You could try he
http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/quatre-%25C3%25A9pices and he
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%25C3%2589pice and maybe he

both "Le titre de la page demandée est invalide" -- not found that
is. If those are the equivalent of the Anglaise pages, they'll not
be useful for me.


Didn't read the English pages so can't help you there. Thinking the
'e' of epice(s) got knocked off somehow. Sorry if it was my doing.

Doing some searching around after a e-without-accent didn't work... the
first is pretty much the English page; the second one is helpful to
someone looking for more about spices in general.

http://www.lesepicesrient.fr/12/2008...n-utilisation/

Thanks, but that one seems more concerned with the usage of 5-spice
(the Chinese blend) and composition. As I said, I know what
quatre-epices is (the 4-spice blend used in French cuisine), I know
the composition (and variations). And I know how it's used--what
I'm looking for specifically are the historic usage and in
particular in Provence country/farm cookery.

There were other references to quatre-epices buried in the site,
otherwise wouldn't have given the link.

What references, where? If you could cut and paste the text you're
referring to, I'd appreciate it. I only see descriptions, compositions,
utilizations, as the caption says--the origine is limited to a mention
of China and Vietnam. There seems to be some commentary about the
replacement of Sichuan pepper with black pepper, but there's nothing
like what I'm looking for. I admit that while I read French, I might
not be as influenza as some! So if you could point to the part that's
revelant to my quest? Thanks.


Nah, you're on your own now I did my bit.


What about 'Larousse Gastronomique'? My copy is in a box somewhere,
so not helpful right now.

No, just the note it's in usage, and that every vendor makes a different
one.

B/


You'd really need to look at some French books on historic cuisine.
Don't think you'd find what you want in English.

On Jan 27, 9:36*pm, Brian Mailman wrote:
I'm looking for a history of the French "quatre-epices" (four spice
blend, usually pepper, cinnamon, clove, and allspice or ginger). *I know
* what it is. *I know what it's used for. *I know the variations (some
say it's half pepper and half the others, some say it's equal parts,
some say white pepper, some say black, some say a mixture).

What I'm looking for specifically if it's "indigenous" to farmhouse
Provence. *It would seem from the composition it's a coastal thingum,
brought by Arab traders, but I'm looking for more inland.

I found something like it in Le Menagier de Paris: "ginger, cinnamon,
clove and long pepper..." This Medieval MSS is from 1393 and an
English translation can be found he
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Mediev...Contents..html

Scroll down to the recipe of Meat Tiles to see this combination.

Arri London wrote:

Brian Mailman wrote:

Arri London wrote:

Brian Mailman wrote:

You could try he
http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/quatre-%25C3%25A9pices and he
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%25C3%2589pice and maybe he

both "Le titre de la page demandée est invalide" -- not found that
is. If those are the equivalent of the Anglaise pages, they'll not
be useful for me.


Didn't read the English pages so can't help you there. Thinking the
'e' of epice(s) got knocked off somehow. Sorry if it was my doing.

Doing some searching around after a e-without-accent didn't work... the
first is pretty much the English page; the second one is helpful to
someone looking for more about spices in general.

http://www.lesepicesrient.fr/12/2008...n-utilisation/

Thanks, but that one seems more concerned with the usage of 5-spice
(the Chinese blend) and composition. As I said, I know what
quatre-epices is (the 4-spice blend used in French cuisine), I know
the composition (and variations). And I know how it's used--what
I'm looking for specifically are the historic usage and in
particular in Provence country/farm cookery.

There were other references to quatre-epices buried in the site,
otherwise wouldn't have given the link.

What references, where? If you could cut and paste the text you're
referring to, I'd appreciate it. I only see descriptions, compositions,
utilizations, as the caption says--the origine is limited to a mention
of China and Vietnam. There seems to be some commentary about the
replacement of Sichuan pepper with black pepper, but there's nothing
like what I'm looking for. I admit that while I read French, I might
not be as influenza as some! So if you could point to the part that's
revelant to my quest? Thanks.


Nah, you're on your own now I did my bit.

Yeah, I understood the "I know but you don't and I'm really not
interested in sharing the knowledge" bit. Is why I asked you for a
specific text relevant to my question and not just telling me what I
already know.

But thanks, I'm sure those pages will be helpful to *someone,* so not a
total waste.

B/

Dragonblaze wrote:
On Jan 27, 9:36 pm, Brian Mailman wrote:
I'm looking for a history of the French "quatre-epices" (four spice
blend, usually pepper, cinnamon, clove, and allspice or ginger)...
What I'm looking for specifically if it's "indigenous" to farmhouse
Provence. It would seem from the composition it's a coastal thingum,
brought by Arab traders, but I'm looking for more inland.

I found something like it in Le Menagier de Paris: "ginger, cinnamon,
clove and long pepper..." This Medieval MSS is from 1393 and an
English translation can be found he
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Mediev..._Contents.html

Scroll down to the recipe of Meat Tiles to see this combination.

Great, fascinating schtuff. It seems the Ashkenazi (European-descended)
Jewish kugel is very old indeed... similar in a very high degree to the
"cretonne" descrbied. Unfortunately, nothing like what I'm looking for,
which is whether or not quatre-epices is used in *traditional* Provencal
farmhouse cookery.

Thanks for suggesting it, though.

B/

Brian Mailman wrote:

Arri London wrote:

Brian Mailman wrote:

Arri London wrote:

Brian Mailman wrote:

You could try he
http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/quatre-%25C3%25A9pices and he
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%25C3%2589pice and maybe he

both "Le titre de la page demandée est invalide" -- not found that
is. If those are the equivalent of the Anglaise pages, they'll not
be useful for me.


Didn't read the English pages so can't help you there. Thinking the
'e' of epice(s) got knocked off somehow. Sorry if it was my doing.

Doing some searching around after a e-without-accent didn't work... the
first is pretty much the English page; the second one is helpful to
someone looking for more about spices in general.

http://www.lesepicesrient.fr/12/2008...n-utilisation/

Thanks, but that one seems more concerned with the usage of 5-spice
(the Chinese blend) and composition. As I said, I know what
quatre-epices is (the 4-spice blend used in French cuisine), I know
the composition (and variations). And I know how it's used--what
I'm looking for specifically are the historic usage and in
particular in Provence country/farm cookery.

There were other references to quatre-epices buried in the site,
otherwise wouldn't have given the link.

What references, where? If you could cut and paste the text you're
referring to, I'd appreciate it. I only see descriptions, compositions,
utilizations, as the caption says--the origine is limited to a mention
of China and Vietnam. There seems to be some commentary about the
replacement of Sichuan pepper with black pepper, but there's nothing
like what I'm looking for. I admit that while I read French, I might
not be as influenza as some! So if you could point to the part that's
revelant to my quest? Thanks.


Nah, you're on your own now I did my bit.

Yeah, I understood the "I know but you don't and I'm really not
interested in sharing the knowledge" bit. Is why I asked you for a
specific text relevant to my question and not just telling me what I
already know.

Not here to do your work for you. When I have a research topic, I do my
own work. As should you.

But thanks, I'm sure those pages will be helpful to *someone,* so not a
total waste.

B/

They are useful to you as well, if you take a good look.

Arri London wrote:

(massive snip).

Thanks for all the help you've provided. I'm sure you haven't intended
to come across as a fella with his pants on the ground.

B/

Brian Mailman wrote:

Arri London wrote:

(massive snip).

Thanks for all the help you've provided. I'm sure you haven't intended
to come across as a fella with his pants on the ground.

B/

ROTFL! With an attitude like that, no one is ever going to answer your
questions again.