In the following recipe, I am learning that the meaning of the word clove is
not clear. Does it refer to cloves, or to cloves of garlic?

The recipe is that for Spanish-rice Skillet, on p 174 of the current
loose-leaf edition of the 1953 Better Homes and GArdens New Cook Book.

Recipe calls for 4 whole cloves, then says to remove them after cookign
along with the bay leaf.

4 slices bacon
1 cup chopped onion
1/4 coup chopped green pepper
2 10 1/2 or 11 ounce cans condensed tomato soup
1/2 cup rice
1/2 cup water
4 whole cloves
1 bay leaf
1/2 tsp salt

Cut bacon in small pieces; fry until crisp in heavy skillet; remove bacon.

Cook onion and green pepper in bacon fat until golden. Add remaining
ingredients; cover tightly and cook slowly 50 minutes. Stir occasionally.

Remove cloves and bay leaf; sprinkle crisp bacon over top. Makes 5 to 6
servings.

Apparently some older recipes actually tell you to put in a clove of garlic,
whole, and remove after cooking, and noone has ever heard of cloves in
spanish rice.



--
Yours,
Dora Smith
Austin, TX

"Dora Smith" wrote in message

In the following recipe, I am learning that the meaning of the word clove
is not clear. Does it refer to cloves, or to cloves of garlic?
The recipe is that for Spanish-rice Skillet, on p 174 of the current
loose-leaf edition of the 1953 Better Homes and GArdens New Cook Book.
Recipe calls for 4 whole cloves, then says to remove them after cookign
along with the bay leaf.

4 slices bacon
1 cup chopped onion
1/4 coup chopped green pepper
2 10 1/2 or 11 ounce cans condensed tomato soup
1/2 cup rice
1/2 cup water
4 whole cloves
1 bay leaf
1/2 tsp salt

Unless it's a misprint I would say that "clove" here means the spice
Syzygium aromaticum http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clove. Particularly since
the recipe says to remove them along with the bay leaves.

ingredients; cover tightly and cook slowly 50 minutes. Stir occasionally.
Remove cloves and bay leaf;

After 50 minutes of slow cooking any clove of garlic would have been reduced
to mush.

--
Bob
http://www.kanyak.com

Dora Smith wrote:
In the following recipe, I am learning that the meaning of the word clove is
not clear. Does it refer to cloves, or to cloves of garlic?

The recipe is that for Spanish-rice Skillet, on p 174 of the current
loose-leaf edition of the 1953 Better Homes and GArdens New Cook Book.

Recipe calls for 4 whole cloves, then says to remove them after cookign
along with the bay leaf.

4 slices bacon
1 cup chopped onion
1/4 coup chopped green pepper
2 10 1/2 or 11 ounce cans condensed tomato soup
1/2 cup rice
1/2 cup water
4 whole cloves
1 bay leaf
1/2 tsp salt

Cut bacon in small pieces; fry until crisp in heavy skillet; remove bacon.

Cook onion and green pepper in bacon fat until golden. Add remaining
ingredients; cover tightly and cook slowly 50 minutes. Stir occasionally.

Remove cloves and bay leaf; sprinkle crisp bacon over top. Makes 5 to 6
servings.

Apparently some older recipes actually tell you to put in a clove of garlic,
whole, and remove after cooking, and noone has ever heard of cloves in
spanish rice.


No answer--at least yet. But the 1951 ed. contains no such
recipe. The one for Spanish rice clearly is not this recipe's
ancestor.

--
Jean B.

"Dora Smith" wrote ...

In the following recipe, I am learning that the meaning of the word clove
is not clear. Does it refer to cloves, or to cloves of garlic?

The recipe is that for Spanish-rice Skillet, on p 174 of the current
loose-leaf edition of the 1953 Better Homes and GArdens New Cook Book.

Recipe calls for 4 whole cloves, then says to remove them after cookign
along with the bay leaf.

4 slices bacon
1 cup chopped onion
1/4 coup chopped green pepper
2 10 1/2 or 11 ounce cans condensed tomato soup
1/2 cup rice
1/2 cup water
4 whole cloves
1 bay leaf
1/2 tsp salt

Cut bacon in small pieces; fry until crisp in heavy skillet; remove bacon.

Cook onion and green pepper in bacon fat until golden. Add remaining
ingredients; cover tightly and cook slowly 50 minutes. Stir occasionally.

Remove cloves and bay leaf; sprinkle crisp bacon over top. Makes 5 to 6
servings.

Apparently some older recipes actually tell you to put in a clove of
garlic, whole, and remove after cooking, and noone has ever heard of
cloves in spanish rice.


I'll vote for garlic vs. spice, having trouble imagining what cloves might
add to the dish, while garlic seems needed (but in this large a quantity).

This seems, even for 1953, a really noxious dish, closer to a Jambalaya
missing the sausage or ham and shrimp, proposed as a disposal method for
several shiploads of Campbell's tomato soup.

A near contemporary (actually adapted from a mother's 1950s kitchen), used
by roommates (variable numbers, 3-5) and I when living in "The Alamo", an
enormous stucco house out on Enfield Road, Austin, 1960..... (and some of
the quantities may be off from 50 years of fortunate non-use).

Preheat oven to 350F
Chop two onions, a green pepper, a canned jalapeno and 4-5 cloves of garlic.
Brown 2 lbs ground beef, adding onions, peppers and garlic after meat
browns.
Remove meat mixture, leaving "drippings" in which...
Sauté 2 cups of rice.
Mix in large lidded casserole with
A quart or so of V8 juice
3-4 bay leaves (if they're the old dry kind)
a liberal 1/4 cup of Worcestershire
1 tsp salt
Black pepper
Liberal lashing of Louisiana hot sauce (most brands are milder than Tabasco)
Cover and baked until liquid is absorbed, rice done, 30-40 minutes
Meanwhile chop/tear a pound or more (or even two pounds) of Velveeta into
small pieces and mixed with a chopped jalapeno.
Remove lid, spread cheese over top, and put under broiler until cheese (? -
Well close to cheese) gets brown and bubbly.

Feeds a number of college aged young men, especially when served with other
contemporaries, a 1/4 wedge of iceberg topped with thousand island and
"Garlic bread".

The obvious thing, if this matters to you, is to test the recipe both ways.
I can see either one in a 1951 book. General Foods test kitchen could have
wanted the limited garlic effect (although four cloves seems like a lot if
you are going to remove them anyway) and made an editing error, or could
have wanted clove cloves for a quasi-Greek effect.

The precedents go back hundreds of years, as many early recipes for tomatoes
are called "Spanish." The dish goes back farther, perhaps, as "red rice" in
the Carolinas. So the whole question is kind of like taking a 1948 Fannie
Farmer recipe for baked beans and asking what are the precedents?

Obviously this recipe has personal meaning for you, so the taste test is
crucial.


--
-Mark H. Zanger
author, The American History Cookbook, The American Ethnic Cookbook for
Students
www.ethnicook.com
www.historycook.com


"Dora Smith" wrote in message
...
In the following recipe, I am learning that the meaning of the word clove
is not clear. Does it refer to cloves, or to cloves of garlic?

The recipe is that for Spanish-rice Skillet, on p 174 of the current
loose-leaf edition of the 1953 Better Homes and GArdens New Cook Book.

Recipe calls for 4 whole cloves, then says to remove them after cookign
along with the bay leaf.

4 slices bacon
1 cup chopped onion
1/4 coup chopped green pepper
2 10 1/2 or 11 ounce cans condensed tomato soup
1/2 cup rice
1/2 cup water
4 whole cloves
1 bay leaf
1/2 tsp salt

Cut bacon in small pieces; fry until crisp in heavy skillet; remove bacon.

Cook onion and green pepper in bacon fat until golden. Add remaining
ingredients; cover tightly and cook slowly 50 minutes. Stir occasionally.

Remove cloves and bay leaf; sprinkle crisp bacon over top. Makes 5 to 6
servings.

Apparently some older recipes actually tell you to put in a clove of
garlic, whole, and remove after cooking, and noone has ever heard of
cloves in spanish rice.



--
Yours,
Dora Smith
Austin, TX

On Tue, 6 Mar 2007 13:16:47 -0500, "Mark Zanger"
wrote:

The obvious thing, if this matters to you, is to test the recipe both ways.
I can see either one in a 1951 book. General Foods test kitchen could have
wanted the limited garlic effect (although four cloves seems like a lot if
you are going to remove them anyway) and made an editing error, or could
have wanted clove cloves for a quasi-Greek effect.

I would have thought the use of cloves would have been to reflect a
Moorish influence. As would any 'Spanish' dish that included cloves,
mace, nutmeg, cinnamon, etc.

"Robert Klute" wrote ....
, "Mark Zanger"
wrote:

The obvious thing, if this matters to you, is to test the recipe both
ways.
I can see either one in a 1951 book. General Foods test kitchen could have
wanted the limited garlic effect (although four cloves seems like a lot if
you are going to remove them anyway) and made an editing error, or could
have wanted clove cloves for a quasi-Greek effect.

I would have thought the use of cloves would have been to reflect a
Moorish influence. As would any 'Spanish' dish that included cloves,
mace, nutmeg, cinnamon, etc.

Other than with mincemeat and a few dishes from the Middle East, I'm not
familiar with the use of "cloves" in this ingredient mix, but do see the
sense and sensibility of cloves of garlic...

Besides, until now, I had not realized that Campbell's Condensed Tomato Soup
was a major component in the Moorish Pantry....

The use of tomatoes along moves the dish from Moorish/Spanish origin into
the modern world. One may trace the arrival of Rice on the Iberian
Peninsula to the Moors (tenuously), but rice dishes tended to be prepared
with liquids from other than the tomato, still waiting for the cargo ship to
haul in Transpondia....

TMO

On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 08:56:25 -0600, "TMOliver"
wrote:


"Robert Klute" wrote ....
, "Mark Zanger"
wrote:

The obvious thing, if this matters to you, is to test the recipe both
ways.
I can see either one in a 1951 book. General Foods test kitchen could have
wanted the limited garlic effect (although four cloves seems like a lot if
you are going to remove them anyway) and made an editing error, or could
have wanted clove cloves for a quasi-Greek effect.

I would have thought the use of cloves would have been to reflect a
Moorish influence. As would any 'Spanish' dish that included cloves,
mace, nutmeg, cinnamon, etc.

Other than with mincemeat and a few dishes from the Middle East, I'm not
familiar with the use of "cloves" in this ingredient mix, but do see the
sense and sensibility of cloves of garlic...

Besides, until now, I had not realized that Campbell's Condensed Tomato Soup
was a major component in the Moorish Pantry....

The use of tomatoes along moves the dish from Moorish/Spanish origin into
the modern world. One may trace the arrival of Rice on the Iberian
Peninsula to the Moors (tenuously), but rice dishes tended to be prepared
with liquids from other than the tomato, still waiting for the cargo ship to
haul in Transpondia....


By that reasoning, there would be no tomatoes in Italian dishes. As
for the use of soup mix, this recipe is from a 1951 cookbook. This was
an age when cream of mushroom soup was the universal replacement for
bechamel.

Also, this could be an adaptation of a Mexican dish in the 'Spanish
style'. In that case, again, either garlic or spice could have been
used. The best de terminator would be to examine other recipes in the
same cook book and see where the same ingredient and technique is used
to build a profile, since here it is ambiguous.

"TMOliver" writes:

"Robert Klute" wrote ....
, "Mark Zanger"
wrote:

The obvious thing, if this matters to you, is to test the recipe both
ways.
I can see either one in a 1951 book. General Foods test kitchen could have
wanted the limited garlic effect (although four cloves seems like a lot if
you are going to remove them anyway) and made an editing error, or could
have wanted clove cloves for a quasi-Greek effect.

I would have thought the use of cloves would have been to reflect a
Moorish influence. As would any 'Spanish' dish that included cloves,
mace, nutmeg, cinnamon, etc.

Other than with mincemeat and a few dishes from the Middle East, I'm not
familiar with the use of "cloves" in this ingredient mix, but do see the
sense and sensibility of cloves of garlic...

Besides, until now, I had not realized that Campbell's Condensed Tomato Soup
was a major component in the Moorish Pantry....

The Campbells are cumin.

Lee Rudolph

Pardon me, I lost the nested attribution ...
In article ,
Robert Klute wrote:
The use of tomatoes along moves the dish from Moorish/Spanish origin into
the modern world. One may trace the arrival of Rice on the Iberian
Peninsula to the Moors (tenuously), but rice dishes tended to be prepared
with liquids from other than the tomato, still waiting for the cargo ship to
haul in Transpondia....

By that reasoning, there would be no tomatoes in Italian dishes. As

Not quite. I think what the original intent was, was to say that tomatoes
are New World, and since the Moorish occupation of Spain ended roughly in
1492 (according to wikipedia), there can be no tomatoes in "Moorish-Spanish"
recipes, although certainly in either Moorish or Spanish recipes.

The reasoning means, quite correctly, that there are no tomatoes in
Imperial Roman dishes:-)


Jeff Berry ,
Alexandre Lerot d'Avigne Whyt Whey, East ( |
http://www.panix.com/~nexus ) /|
"You're a notch and I'm a legend"-------Alice Cooper
"I don't need TV when I've got T-Rex"------Mott the Hoople

Lee Rudolph wrote:
"TMOliver" writes:


"Robert Klute" wrote ....
, "Mark Zanger"

wrote:


The obvious thing, if this matters to you, is to test the recipe both
ways.
I can see either one in a 1951 book. General Foods test kitchen could have
wanted the limited garlic effect (although four cloves seems like a lot if
you are going to remove them anyway) and made an editing error, or could
have wanted clove cloves for a quasi-Greek effect.

I would have thought the use of cloves would have been to reflect a
Moorish influence. As would any 'Spanish' dish that included cloves,
mace, nutmeg, cinnamon, etc.

Other than with mincemeat and a few dishes from the Middle East, I'm not
familiar with the use of "cloves" in this ingredient mix, but do see the
sense and sensibility of cloves of garlic...

Besides, until now, I had not realized that Campbell's Condensed Tomato Soup
was a major component in the Moorish Pantry....


The Campbells are cumin.

Lee Rudolph

Lee, that is too much. I can't stop laughing long enough so I can post
a note to Dora!!!


Dora,

Your recipe is calling for the the spice. Every cook in 1951 would have
a can or jar of whole cloves and a can or jar of ground cloves on the
shelf. Ground cloves would be used for items such as gingerbread,
fruitcake, etc and whole cloves would have been used in canning,
preserving ( pickled peaches stuck with whole cloves, pickled beets
stuck with whole cloves. Also, it was common to cut a diamond pattern
on whole hams and stick a whole clove in the center of each diamond.
Many bean recipes call for the addition of whole cloves that are to be
fished out later.

I collect cookbooks and I have never seen a recipe that I knew to be
calling for garlic that did not use the word garlic. "a clove of
garlic," "a pod of garlic," "a button of garlic," "a bulb of garlic," etc.

I am with you. I don't recall running across a recipe for Spanish rice
that called for cloves. I really think that Better Homes and Gardens
just thinks that cloves are appropriate for a Spanish dish. However, I
doubt very much that Spanish rice is Spanish. I think that it is far
more likely to be Caribbean. Charleston rice combined with New World
bell peppers and tomatoes, blessed with Old World (Spanish?) onion.

Well, you posted on Feb 19th and have probably make your recipe by now.
What did you use and how did it turn out. Let us know.

Cookie

On Wed, 7 Mar 2007, Cookie Cutter wrote:

I don't recall running across a recipe for Spanish rice that
called for cloves. I really think that Better Homes and Gardens just thinks
that cloves are appropriate for a Spanish dish. However, I doubt very much
that Spanish rice is Spanish. I think that it is far more likely to be
Caribbean. Charleston rice combined with New World bell peppers and
tomatoes, blessed with Old World (Spanish?) onion.

I agree with all of that. Additionally, I'd suggest that the cloves are
an attempt to mimic the Caribbean flavour. I'm guessing that they were
the nearest flavour to allspice ("the dried unripe fruit of the Pimenta
dioica plant") likely to be found in a 1950s kitchen.

John Wexler
Edinburgh

"J Wexler" wrote in message
.ac.uk...
On Wed, 7 Mar 2007, Cookie Cutter wrote:

I don't recall running across a recipe for Spanish rice that called for
cloves. I really think that Better Homes and Gardens just thinks that
cloves are appropriate for a Spanish dish. However, I doubt very much
that Spanish rice is Spanish. I think that it is far more likely to be
Caribbean. Charleston rice combined with New World bell peppers and
tomatoes, blessed with Old World (Spanish?) onion.

I agree with all of that. Additionally, I'd suggest that the cloves are
an attempt to mimic the Caribbean flavour. I'm guessing that they were
the nearest flavour to allspice ("the dried unripe fruit of the Pimenta
dioica plant") likely to be found in a 1950s kitchen.


Without alluding to the lack of sanity or insecure grasp of reality of some
of the respondents....

"Spanish" rice (mostly descended from Spain often via Cuba and having lost
saffron along the way, but"reddened" with either annato/achiote in
Mexican - TexMex - restaurants and in the home with canned tomatoes, tomato
paste, tomato sauce, fresh tomatoes), and all quite like - except for less
meat - a "Standard" of both Creole and Cajun kitchens in next door
Louisiana, "Jambalaya" (ham or Tasso, Shrimp, or even crawfish) was as
common a dish in the 50s where I lived as scalloped potatoes.

Almost every version, than as now, contained garlic cloves (chopped or
crushed in homes where garlic was a beatified if not sanctified ingredient),
whole where Anglocentrism was at a higher plane and the little boogers were
removed from the pot less they offend dad, one of them there Southren
Baptists that kept his whisk(e)y in a paper sack under the back porch..

I don't know about Edinburgh, for the Scots until translated across
Appalachia to Texas had the culinary imagination of sheep, but in my home
(Anglo-Scot), Allspice was a standard jar on the spice rack, a constituent
of a number of baking recipes, as a ingredient in "rubs" for meat, etc., and
also on the shelf whole cloves was for many things but in the meatish line,
reserved for studding hams when glazing. Ground cloves. That was my job,
the "little man" who got to hand grind cloves as we did with allspice (or
rubbing the nutmeg down the side of its own little grater.

I can assure you that any who were familiar with cloves was likely to be
aware of allspice, two distinctive spices. I've seen canela (Mexican
cinnamon), mace, and ground cloves blended to imitate allspice, but its only
emulation not resemblance...

It was the Gott Verboten Tomato Soup that drew my ire and fire, 'cuz you can
rest assured the cloves was ajo, breakfast of champions.

TMO

"Cookie Cutter" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
Your recipe is calling for the the spice.

I think so, too.
Especially the fact that the cloves are not crushed and roasted with the
onions (which is standard for garlic) and later removed together with
the bayleaf means spice.

snip

I am with you. I don't recall running across a recipe for Spanish rice
that called for cloves.

Well, posh Austrian rice does.
Peel onion, cut in halves.
Stick four cloves into one onion half and put that into the pot on top of
the rice
you intend to cook.
When rice is done, remove onion half with cloves.
The rice tastes better than rice just cooked in water (IMO).

snip

Cheers,

Michael Kuettner

In article ,
"Jean B." wrote:

Dora Smith wrote:
In the following recipe, I am learning that the meaning of the word clove
is
not clear. Does it refer to cloves, or to cloves of garlic?

The recipe is that for Spanish-rice Skillet, on p 174 of the current
loose-leaf edition of the 1953 Better Homes and GArdens New Cook Book.

Recipe calls for 4 whole cloves, then says to remove them after cookign
along with the bay leaf.

4 slices bacon
1 cup chopped onion
1/4 coup chopped green pepper
2 10 1/2 or 11 ounce cans condensed tomato soup
1/2 cup rice
1/2 cup water
4 whole cloves
1 bay leaf
1/2 tsp salt

Cut bacon in small pieces; fry until crisp in heavy skillet; remove bacon.

Cook onion and green pepper in bacon fat until golden. Add remaining
ingredients; cover tightly and cook slowly 50 minutes. Stir occasionally.

Remove cloves and bay leaf; sprinkle crisp bacon over top. Makes 5 to 6
servings.

Apparently some older recipes actually tell you to put in a clove of
garlic,
whole, and remove after cooking, and noone has ever heard of cloves in
spanish rice.


No answer--at least yet. But the 1951 ed. contains no such
recipe. The one for Spanish rice clearly is not this recipe's
ancestor.

Well, that pretty well pins down the date for the recipe change. I have
a 1938 edition and here's the Spanish Rice ingredient list from page 15
of the Vegetables section ( Chapter XIV).

4 tbsp. oil
1 cup rice
1 onion, sliced
1 small clove garlic
1 green pepper, chopped
1 quart canned tomatoes
1 tsp. salt
1/8 tsp. pepper
1/4 tsp. chili powder
1 cup grated cheese

This edition is old enough to be free of "canned cream of mushroom soup"
as a sauce substitute but worcestershire sauce and chili sauce are quite
noticeable. (e.g. chili sauce in "Mexican Green Beans") I have no
question that "4 cloves" refers to the spice. That is totally consistent
with mid 20th century cookbook usage. BTW, note the tiny amount of
"chili powder" called for. An interesting case of toning down 'furrin'
food for Middle American tastes (as was seen in chili and tamale pie) as
well as conflating Spain and Mexico.

D.M.