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Historic (rec.food.historic) Discussing and discovering how food was made and prepared way back when--From ancient times down until (& possibly including or even going slightly beyond) the times when industrial revolution began to change our lives.

Baking in the 18th Century



 
 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 22-09-2006, 01:20 AM posted to rec.food.historic
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Posts: 11
Default Baking in the 18th Century



In Europe (specifically Scotland) and the American colonies, where was
baking done. Most houses would not have had ovens (would they?). Not
every one would have bought from a baker or had one available to them.
How was bread baking and cake baking accomplished?

Thanks,

Cookie
Ads
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 22-09-2006, 06:56 AM posted to rec.food.historic
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Posts: 4,620
Default Baking in the 18th Century

Oh pshaw, on Thu 21 Sep 2006 05:20:02p, Cookie Cutter meant to say...



In Europe (specifically Scotland) and the American colonies, where was
baking done. Most houses would not have had ovens (would they?). Not
every one would have bought from a baker or had one available to them.
How was bread baking and cake baking accomplished?

Thanks,

Cookie


There were often communal ovens or the oven of the village baker where goods
could be taken for baking. Home baking was often done in an covered iron pot
in the coals of the fire.

--
Wayne Boatwright
__________________________________________________

The right to revolt has sources deep in our
history. --William O. Douglas

  #3 (permalink)  
Old 22-09-2006, 11:38 AM posted to rec.food.historic
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Posts: 35
Default Baking in the 18th Century

In Europe (specifically Scotland) and the American colonies, where was
baking done. Most houses would not have had ovens (would they?). Not
every one would have bought from a baker or had one available to them.
How was bread baking and cake baking accomplished?

There were often communal ovens or the oven of the village baker where goods
could be taken for baking. Home baking was often done in an covered iron pot
in the coals of the fire.


In most of Scotland people lived too far from any centre for oven baking
to be possible. They made porridge or used griddles.

============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ==============
Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/ for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 22-09-2006, 06:18 PM posted to rec.food.historic
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Posts: 11
Default Baking in the 18th Century

Thanks to both of you for your replies.

I was not sure if the baking guilds were still around in the 18th
century or not.

I am specifically trying to figure out the origin of the Southern (as in
American South) cookies called "tea cakes." They are likely the "little
cakes" that early bakers created by dropping small amounts of cake
batter in the pan to test the temperature of their ovens.

I found a recipe for tea cakes in The Practice of Cookery by Mrs
Dalgairns, first published in 1829 in Scotland. The recipe is
essentially the same as my grandmother's recipe. So, I am working on
the assumption that they are probably goodies out of 18th century
Scotland, a time when their was a great deal of immigration of Scots to
the South.

Cookie
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 22-09-2006, 06:55 PM posted to rec.food.historic
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Posts: 35
Default Baking in the 18th Century

I am specifically trying to figure out the origin of the Southern (as in
American South) cookies called "tea cakes." They are likely the "little
cakes" that early bakers created by dropping small amounts of cake
batter in the pan to test the temperature of their ovens.

I found a recipe for tea cakes in The Practice of Cookery by Mrs
Dalgairns, first published in 1829 in Scotland. The recipe is
essentially the same as my grandmother's recipe. So, I am working on
the assumption that they are probably goodies out of 18th century
Scotland, a time when their was a great deal of immigration of Scots to
the South.


Recipe books were written for relatively wealthy people who would
have had ovens in their houses. Most of the population of Scotland
didn't, as late as 1829, and I doubt if any higher a proportion of
Southern American colonists did.

If your "tea cakes" (the word can mean several different things here)
could be made on a griddle, then they could well have come from the
poorer or more rural parts of Scotland. If they needed an oven then
they would presumably have been confined to slaveholders (who could
well have bought cookbooks like Mrs Dalgairns's) and spread more
widely as ovens became more widely available.

============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ==============
Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/ for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 22-09-2006, 09:37 PM posted to rec.food.historic
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Posts: 19
Default Baking in the 18th Century


"Jack Campin - bogus address" wrote in message
...
I am specifically trying to figure out the origin of the Southern (as in
American South) cookies called "tea cakes." They are likely the "little
cakes" that early bakers created by dropping small amounts of cake
batter in the pan to test the temperature of their ovens.

I found a recipe for tea cakes in The Practice of Cookery by Mrs
Dalgairns, first published in 1829 in Scotland. The recipe is
essentially the same as my grandmother's recipe. So, I am working on
the assumption that they are probably goodies out of 18th century
Scotland, a time when their was a great deal of immigration of Scots to
the South.


Recipe books were written for relatively wealthy people who would
have had ovens in their houses. Most of the population of Scotland
didn't, as late as 1829, and I doubt if any higher a proportion of
Southern American colonists did.

If your "tea cakes" (the word can mean several different things here)
could be made on a griddle, then they could well have come from the
poorer or more rural parts of Scotland. If they needed an oven then
they would presumably have been confined to slaveholders (who could
well have bought cookbooks like Mrs Dalgairns's) and spread more
widely as ovens became more widely available.

Not many of our ancestors here in the South, especially the ScotsIrish sort
from whom I'm descended on most of one side, Campbells and Clarks, would
have had much in the way of ovens (other than the warming holes built into
the sides of large fireplaces), nor would they have had much in the way of
breastplates or bucklers (but maybe an occasional gorget ripped from the
neck of a fallen pink-cheeked British cornet as we looted/retrieved personal
property from the dead and soon to be so on random sites of minor
engagements), so our "tea cakes" would have likely been of the "griddle"
sort of among the middle class (while the wee and puir subsisted on hoe
cakes, cooked on the blade of the hoe).....

A couple of sidenotes....My Clark ancestors (as in General Elijah,
Revoltionary hero - one of the figures from whom Mel Gibson's composite was
formed in that ghastly cinepic, "The Patriot", founder of Clark County (and
Athens and UJawja, I guess or so claims the memorial plinth outside the
gates of the place), dreadful despoiler and dispossessor of Native 'Merkins,
etc., acquired some wealth post-Revolution and would have likely hada
kitchen with a bricj fireplace with oven(s) built into the sides. Some of
the Campbells (of the non-Tory sort) would have been likely to have acquired
assets to afford such cultured frippery, likely taking over the lands and
chattels, human and livestock, of their relatives/fellow clansmen, the Tory
Campbells fled for their lives to Novia Scotia, etc., a pragmatic eye to the
future being a constant Campbell virtue.

You've got to grind that corn fine for tea ckes, but cane syrup both
sweetens and eases down the hard and gritty edges.

Actually, I suspect that cast iron "Dutch Ovens", suitable for marvelous
biscuits, the ambrosia of the South, or even "Spoonbread" by which all men
are not rendered equal, out numbered built in ovens well into the 20th
century in much of the South.

TMO


  #7 (permalink)  
Old 23-09-2006, 03:05 AM posted to rec.food.historic
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Posts: 11
Default Baking in the 18th Century

TOliver wrote:


Not many of our ancestors here in the South, especially the ScotsIrish sort
from whom I'm descended on most of one side, Campbells and Clarks,


Campbells are Highland Scots and not likely to have been Scot-Irish.
Highland Scots came directly to the Carolinas -- Cape Fear area of North
Carolina and Pee Dee River area of South Carolina in the 18th century.

would
have had much in the way of ovens (other than the warming holes built into
the sides of large fireplaces), nor would they have had much in the way of
breastplates or bucklers (but maybe an occasional gorget ripped from the
neck of a fallen pink-cheeked British cornet as we looted/retrieved personal
property from the dead and soon to be so on random sites of minor
engagements), so our "tea cakes" would have likely been of the "griddle"
sort of among the middle class (while the wee and puir subsisted on hoe
cakes, cooked on the blade of the hoe).....

A couple of sidenotes....My Clark ancestors (as in General Elijah,
Revoltionary hero - one of the figures from whom Mel Gibson's composite was
formed in that ghastly cinepic, "The Patriot", founder of Clark County (and
Athens and UJawja, I guess or so claims the memorial plinth outside the
gates of the place), dreadful despoiler and dispossessor of Native 'Merkins,
etc., acquired some wealth post-Revolution and would have likely hada
kitchen with a bricj fireplace with oven(s) built into the sides. Some of
the Campbells (of the non-Tory sort) would have been likely to have acquired
assets to afford such cultured frippery, likely taking over the lands and
chattels, human and livestock, of their relatives/fellow clansmen, the Tory
Campbells fled for their lives to Novia Scotia, etc., a pragmatic eye to the
future being a constant Campbell virtue.

You've got to grind that corn fine for tea ckes, but cane syrup both
sweetens and eases down the hard and gritty edges.


Tea cakes are cookies, not pancakes. They are made with wheat flour,
not cornmeal. Since you have never eaten one, why don't you ask some of
your relatives who cook -- and they don't have to have any Scots
heritage. Tea cakes were made by pretty much everyone, regardless of
heritage, when I was a child. I have my paternal grandmother's recipe
and she is overwhelmingly English back to Jamestown with a French
huguenot thrown in here and there for punctuation. I simply have a
thesis that their origin was in Scotland because "tea" as a light meal
originated in Scotland in the 18th century and there was a large
immigration of Scots to the South in the 18th century.


Actually, I suspect that cast iron "Dutch Ovens", suitable for marvelous
biscuits, the ambrosia of the South, or even "Spoonbread" by which all men
are not rendered equal, out numbered built in ovens well into the 20th
century in much of the South.

TMO


  #8 (permalink)  
Old 23-09-2006, 05:11 AM posted to rec.food.historic
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Posts: 11
Default Baking in the 18th Century

Jack Campin - bogus address wrote:


Recipe books were written for relatively wealthy people who would
have had ovens in their houses. Most of the population of Scotland
didn't, as late as 1829, and I doubt if any higher a proportion of
Southern American colonists did.

If your "tea cakes" (the word can mean several different things here)
could be made on a griddle, then they could well have come from the
poorer or more rural parts of Scotland. If they needed an oven then
they would presumably have been confined to slaveholders (who could
well have bought cookbooks like Mrs Dalgairns's) and spread more
widely as ovens became more widely available.


Tea Cakes are soft sugar cookies (biscuits in England). They are rolled
and cut large, usually about 3 inches. I don't know if they could have
been cooked on griddles or not. Everyone made these when I was a child.
No distinction by social, economic, country of origin of ancestors,
color, or religion. But when I found a recipe for them in a Scottish
cookbook, I began to wonder if they originated in Scotland. Maybe their
popularity came much later and it is only a coincidence that there is a
similar recipe in a Scottish cookbook. I don't find any recipes in The
Virginia House-Wife, 1824, The Kentucky Housewife, 1839. The Carolina
Housewife, 1847, has an entire chapter labeled, "Tea Cakes, etc." but
none of the recipes really looks familiar. Even the "Scotch Cake" is
probably shortbread.

Sources on the web say that Mrs. Dalgairns book was initially published
in 1829. The 1840 edition is on the web at:

http://www.scotfood.org/cookery/index.htm

Online edition at this website:
THE PRACTICE OF COOKERY
Adapted to the
BUSINESS OF EVERY-DAY LIFE.
By MRS. DALGAIRNS.
1840

In Chap. 15,

THE QUEEN’S TEA CAKES.

Mix together half a pound of dried and sifted flour, the same quantity
of pounded and sifted loaf sugar, the weight of two eggs in fresh
butter, the grated peel of a lemon, and a little salt; beat the two eggs
with a little rose water, and with them make the ingredients into a
paste; roll it out, cut it into round cakes, and bake them upon floured
tins.


In the historical cookbooks at:
http://digital.lib.msu.edu/projects/cookbooks/

Housekeeping in Old Virginia
By Marion Fontaine Cabell Tyree
Richmond, VA: J.W. Randolph & English, 1878.


TEA CAKES.

2 quarts of flour.

1 small teacup of lard.

1 small teacup of butter.

3 cupfuls of sugar.

3 eggs.

1 cupful of cream (sour is best).

2 small teaspoonfuls of soda.

1 grated nutmeg.

Roll out half an inch thick, and bake in a moderate oven.--Mrs. F. C. W.



TEA CAKES.

2 quarts of flour.

3 cupfuls of sugar.

1 cup of butter.

5 eggs.

1 teaspoonful of soda dissolved in 2 tablespoonfuls of sweet milk.

2 teaspoonfuls cream of tartar.

Season with lemon or nutmeg.

--Mrs. H.





DELICATE TEA CAKES.

Whites of 3 eggs beaten to a froth.

1 cupful of pulverized sugar.

1/2 cupful of sweet milk.

1 teaspoonful cream of tartar.

1/2 teaspoonful of soda.

2 1/2 cupfuls of flour.

1 teaspoonful of almonds.

1/2 cupful of melted butter.

--Mrs. R.



Even
La Cuisine Creole: A Collection of Culinary Recipes, From Leading Chefs
and Noted Creole Housewives, Who Have Made New Orleans Famous for its
Cuisine.
By Lafcadio Hearn
New Orleans: F.F. Hansell & Bro., Ltd., c1885

has a recipe for tea cakes

TEA CAKES. CHEAP AND NICE. NO EGGS
One cup of butter or a large spoonful of lard, two cups of sugar, one
cup of sour milk, one teaspoonful of soda, some grated orange peel or
nutmeg; flour enough to roll out. Roll very thin; cut with fancy
cutters, and bake in a quick oven. If you use lard, add a pinch of salt.

PLAIN TEA CAKES
Half a cup of butter, or a large spoonful of lard, one and a half cups
of sugar, one teacupful of milk, one teaspoonful of soda, seven cupfuls
of sifted flour. Roll thin.


My grandmother's recipe for tea cakes

1 egg
1 cup sugar
1/2 cup lard
1/4 cup sour milk
2 cups flour
1/2 teaspoon soda
1 teaspoon baking powder
1 teaspoon flavoring

Roll thin, cut with large cutter, sprinkle with sugar before baking

  #9 (permalink)  
Old 23-09-2006, 08:21 PM posted to rec.food.historic
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Posts: 35
Default Baking in the 18th Century

Not many of our ancestors here in the South, especially the ScotsIrish
sort from whom I'm descended on most of one side, Campbells and Clarks,

Campbells are Highland Scots and not likely to have been Scot-Irish.


That's nuts. The Campbell lands are the closest to Ireland of any part
of Scotland - you can *see* Ireland from there, all the way from Kintyre
to Islay. The Campbells were among the first groups to participate in
the 17th century Plantation.


Highland Scots came directly to the Carolinas -- Cape Fear area of North
Carolina and Pee Dee River area of South Carolina in the 18th century.


Which is true, but it doesn't mean some didn't arrive via Ireland as well.

Whatever the ingredients, TMO's characterization of the cooking methods
makes historical sense.


Tea cakes are cookies, not pancakes. [...]


Here you need to translate, because I've never yet figured out what the
exact denotation of "cookie" in US English is, despite having lived in
the US for a couple of years. It doesn't seem to be exactly the same
as what we call a "biscuit". The nearest I can think to what you seem
to mean would be what we call a fruit scone.


I simply have a thesis that their origin was in Scotland because "tea"
as a light meal originated in Scotland in the 18th century and there
was a large immigration of Scots to the South in the 18th century.


The social class that had time to spare for "light meals" (most people
didn't) must have overlapped with the owners of ovens, so maybe it
would make sense that such a food was oven-baked from the start. What
that says about where it came from I have no idea. The Aberdeen UP
Scots Dictionary says your sense of "tea" is of 20th century origin
in Scotland and doesn't list "teacake" as being specifically Scots at
all. Most people in Scotland would now assume "teacake" always meant
a Tunnocks one (google for it, they're legendary).

Maybe I should post Adam McNaughton's song about the history of the
Tunnock's Caramel Wafer here.

============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ==============
Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/ for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 23-09-2006, 09:44 PM posted to rec.food.historic
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Posts: 11
Default Baking in the 18th Century

Jack Campin - bogus address wrote:
Not many of our ancestors here in the South, especially the ScotsIrish
sort from whom I'm descended on most of one side, Campbells and Clarks,


Campbells are Highland Scots and not likely to have been Scot-Irish.



That's nuts. The Campbell lands are the closest to Ireland of any part
of Scotland - you can *see* Ireland from there, all the way from Kintyre
to Islay. The Campbells were among the first groups to participate in
the 17th century Plantation.



Highland Scots came directly to the Carolinas -- Cape Fear area of North
Carolina and Pee Dee River area of South Carolina in the 18th century.


Which is true, but it doesn't mean some didn't arrive via Ireland as well.



The Highland Scots who came to the Carolinas in the 19th century were
the Highland middle class, which is to say that they were much better
off than people at the bottom and not nearly so well off as people at
the top. I have no idea what this means as to how they would have done
their cooking in Scotland or in the colonies. These Scots were
generally the rent collectors for the clan chiefs. Both the renters and
the rent collectors lost their sources of livelihood after the English
literally threw those renters out of their houses, children and very old
women included, and pulled down their houses to replace them with sheep.
I am sure the renters ended up in the Irish plantation system if they
lived long enough to get there without starving. Certainly, many of
those Scots ended up in America -- and some may have ended up in the
Carolinas and be ancestors of T Oliver for all I know. But it is much
more likely that they were part of the huge diaspora of middle class
Scots who came directly from Scotland to the Carolinas, lived in huge
Gaelic-speaking communities from Cape Fear area of North Carolina to the
Pee Dee River in South Carolina. I have ancestors among them; I have
done considerable genealogical research and examined countless family
charts and am familiar with their history.

My interest here is trying to shed some light on the origin of tea
cakes. I have a deadline and I prefer not to stray into unrelated areas
of debate. I thank you for your first post which has given me
considerable pause for thought and caused me to re-think some of my ideas.

Cookie
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 23-09-2006, 10:25 PM posted to rec.food.historic
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Posts: 11
Default Baking in the 18th Century

Jack Campin - bogus address wrote:
The Aberdeen UP
Scots Dictionary says your sense of "tea" is of 20th century origin
in Scotland



"Tea appears to have been introduced to Scotland by the .... wife
of ... the Duke of York ... in 1681... It was denounced by both medical
men and clergy, and its acceptance was slow; but by 1750 its conquest of
the womenfolk was complete, and wine was reserved for gentlemen.

"The introduction of afternoon tea gave a great impetus to the
national flair for baking, among both amateurs and professionals.

"'When I was a boy,' writes Henry Mackenzie (The Man of Feeling)
(b. 1745), tea was the meal of ceremony and we had fifty-odd kinds of
teabread....' "


The Scots Kitchen, Its Lore and Recipes
by F. Marian McNeill
Granada Publishing Limited
Published in 1974 by Mayflower Books Ltd
Frogmore, St Albana, Hert
Page 94


First published in Great Britain by
Blackie & Son Ltd. 1929
Bungay, Suffolk
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 23-09-2006, 11:52 PM posted to rec.food.historic
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Posts: 35
Default Baking in the 18th Century

If your "tea cakes" (the word can mean several different things here)
could be made on a griddle, then they could well have come from the
poorer or more rural parts of Scotland. [...]

Tea Cakes are soft sugar cookies (biscuits in England).


Biscuits in England and Scotland are never soft; if they don't go crunch
they're cakes. That's why I was wondering what the heck "cookie" actually
means, it seems to cover a range of things we wouldn't think of having a
common name for.


Sources on the web say that Mrs. Dalgairns book was initially published
in 1829. The 1840 edition is on the web
THE QUEEN¹S TEA CAKES [posh recipe]


That has to have been added for 1840; no cookbook publisher would have
dared to name a recipe after Queen Caroline. And it must be an English
recipe as Queen Victoria didn't visit Scotland until 1842.


In the historical cookbooks at:
http://digital.lib.msu.edu/projects/cookbooks/
Housekeeping in Old Virginia
By Marion Fontaine Cabell Tyree
Richmond, VA: J.W. Randolph & English, 1878
TEA CAKES [...two very plain recipes...]


These sound much more like something that could have been made in early
19th century Scotland. Try F. Marian McNeill's "The Scots Kitchen".


DELICATE TEA CAKES. [...expensive recipe...]


Maybe Meg Dods could have made that for Walter Scott but I doubt it
could have been regular food for anybody in Scotland.

============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ==============
Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/ for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 24-09-2006, 02:43 AM posted to rec.food.historic
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Posts: 11
Default Baking in the 18th Century

Jack Campin - bogus address wrote:


Biscuits in England and Scotland are never soft; if they don't go crunch
they're cakes. That's why I was wondering what the heck "cookie" actually
means, it seems to cover a range of things we wouldn't think of having a
common name for.



http://whatscookingamerica.net/Histo...kieHistory.htm

"In America, a cookie is described as a thin, sweet, usually small cake.
By definition, a cookie can be any of a variety of hand-held,
flour-based sweet cakes, either crisp or soft. Each country has its own
word for "cookie." What we know as cookies are called biscuits in
England and Australia, in Spain they're galletas, Germans call them keks
or kels, and in Italy there are several names to identify various forms
of cookies including amaretti and biscotti, and so on. The name cookie
is derived from the Dutch word koekje, meaning "small or little cake."
Biscuit comes from the Latin word bis coctum, which means, “twice
baked.” According to culinary historians, the first historic record of
cookies was their use as test cakes. A small amount of cake batter was
baked to test the oven temperature. "




In the historical cookbooks at:
http://digital.lib.msu.edu/projects/cookbooks/
Housekeeping in Old Virginia
By Marion Fontaine Cabell Tyree
Richmond, VA: J.W. Randolph & English, 1878
TEA CAKES [...two very plain recipes...]



These sound much more like something that could have been made in early
19th century Scotland. Try F. Marian McNeill's "The Scots Kitchen".



F. Marian McNeill has Mrs. Dalgairns recipe for The Queen's Tea Cakes.
That is what sent me to exploring Mrs. Dalgairns cookbook.
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 02-10-2006, 09:04 AM posted to rec.food.historic
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Posts: 30
Default Baking in the 18th Century

In article , Cookie Cutter
wrote:

Until recently bread was normally baked in rural Ulster on a griddle
over a turf fire - see "soda bread" and "farl" in wikipedia. Certain
types of bread were hardened by laying them directly on a "har'nin'
stand" - an ornamental iron rack propped in front of the fire (see
http://www.uftm.org.uk/collections_a...ctions/domesti
c_life/

Lazarus
 




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