For decadence, it's hard to beat chocolate. A tv show reminded me that
one afternoon long ago I had still-warm Spanish churros dunked bite by
bite in a cup of hot chocolate, and it made for a wonderful afternoon.
This page has recipes for the churros and the chocolate.
http://www.xmission.com/~dderhak/recipe/churros.htm

The chocolate sauce is this, heated, stirred, thickened:

4 oz. dark chocolate, chopped
2 cups milk
1 tbsp cornstarch (also known as cornflour and is the powder that
causes the thickening)
4 tbsp sugar

Now I'm not a chocolate aficionado, so when I go to my Trader Joe's (or
other likely place), just what kind of chocolate should I be looking
for? Assuming there will be an array of dark chocolates, how do I
choose? -aem

at Wed, 24 May 2006 19:42:36 GMT in 1148499756.487472.283390
@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com, (aem) wrote :

For decadence, it's hard to beat chocolate. A tv show reminded me that
one afternoon long ago I had still-warm Spanish churros dunked bite by
bite in a cup of hot chocolate, and it made for a wonderful afternoon.
This page has recipes for the churros and the chocolate.
http://www.xmission.com/~dderhak/recipe/churros.htm

The chocolate sauce is this, heated, stirred, thickened:

4 oz. dark chocolate, chopped
2 cups milk
1 tbsp cornstarch (also known as cornflour and is the powder that
causes the thickening)
4 tbsp sugar

Now I'm not a chocolate aficionado, so when I go to my Trader Joe's (or
other likely place), just what kind of chocolate should I be looking
for? Assuming there will be an array of dark chocolates, how do I
choose? -aem

4 oz - 2 cups milk? Not a very strong dip. That's more like a mild
chocolate pudding recipe. If you want a strong flavour, therefore, you need
a powerful chocolate, especially since it has added sugar. Really, you
should consider a quality unsweetened chocolate. If your churros have
cinnamon, then Domori's 100% (style line) is probably the best. Otherwise
the most intense and IMHO best unsweetened is Michel Cluizel Noir Infini.
DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES use Baker's brand which is absolutely
horrible. A good clue: if an unsweetened chocolate is truly inedible
straight, then it's simply a bad chocolate, period.

If the 100% proves too strong for you, again, with the addition of cinnamon
to the churros, Dagoba's Eclipse 87% is good or for even sweeter you might
try Domori Carenero Superior. If you're not adding cinnamon, I'd go with
Galler 85% in the high-percentage category and with Cote D'Or Noir de Noir
Intense 70% in the standard-percentage range. BTW, although all the
chocolates here are excellent for straight eating and I'd recommend any of
them, I've specifically optimised the exact choice for your particular
application. For straight eating there are IMHO still better chocolates at
these percentages - Lindt Excellence 85% and Cluizel Noir 72% respectively.
There's also a 70% varietal better even than the Cluizel again IMHO -
Amedei Chuao - but this is strongly characteristic and not a general-
purpose chocolate.

All chocolates I mention can be gotten from http://www.chocosphere.com. I
might also mention that Trader Joe's isn't really a good source for
chocolate - both because their stocks are inconsistent and because they
don't have a broad range of truly first-rate chocolates.

As specified your mixture might be a bit grainy if you use regular
granulated sugar. I'd probably use powdered sugar (such that I used any
sugar at all) instead for a smoother consistency.


--
Alex Rast

(remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)

Alex Rast wrote:

4 oz - 2 cups milk? Not a very strong dip. That's more like a mild
chocolate pudding recipe. If you want a strong flavour, therefore, you need
a powerful chocolate, especially since it has added sugar. Really, you
should consider a quality unsweetened chocolate.

Unsweetened? Does dark chocolate come both sweetened and unsweetened?
I gather you're saying unsweetened is stronger flavored....

If your churros have
cinnamon, then Domori's 100% (style line) is probably the best.

You can mix cinammon with sugar to sprinkle over the churros. It
doesn't go in the dough itself.

I'm writing these brand names down, thanks.

All chocolates I mention can be gotten from http://www.chocosphere.com. I
might also mention that Trader Joe's isn't really a good source for
chocolate - both because their stocks are inconsistent and because they
don't have a broad range of truly first-rate chocolates.

Now that I have specific things to look for I can look other places,
too. -aem

aem wrote:
Alex Rast wrote:

4 oz - 2 cups milk? Not a very strong dip. That's more like a mild
chocolate pudding recipe. If you want a strong flavour, therefore, you need
a powerful chocolate, especially since it has added sugar. Really, you
should consider a quality unsweetened chocolate.

Unsweetened? Does dark chocolate come both sweetened and unsweetened?
I gather you're saying unsweetened is stronger flavored....

When a chocolate has a percentage and 100- that percentage (say, C %) is
the amount of sugar. So when 100 - C % approaches zero, it is
approaching the unsweetened state. Usually C is max 99%.



If your churros have
cinnamon, then Domori's 100% (style line) is probably the best.

You can mix cinammon with sugar to sprinkle over the churros. It
doesn't go in the dough itself.

I'm writing these brand names down, thanks.

I would like to add, the Cruizel Mitchel tends to have a smokey hint,
which I do not like.

I adore Valrhona (France), but think it is a pitty to cook with it, even
though my chocolate book calls for specific Valrhona chocolates for each
recipe. Like, filled chocolates calls for a specific chocolate which has
a higher fat content than the others, so it shines better. The mousse is
made with one which is purely the criollo cocoa bean. The hot chocolate
is made with one which is purely the trinitario bean, etc...
I would not use cornstarch or any other starch to thicken a chocolate
sauce, I would just find the ratio between chocolate and liquid (nothing
less fatty than whole-milk) that still has the desired viscosity.

Lindt (Switzerland) is ok for cooking and they have a 99%, but 85%
should be fine for a chocolate sauce.

Dolfin (Belgium) is also really good and have interesting packaging.

Neuhaus (Belgium) is boring to eat pure, but fine for cooking.

Novi (Italy) has some dull standard chocs, but some excellent single
region chocolates. The one from Ghana is amazing.

Valrhona's single estate chocolates are number 1, and it is a sin to
ruin them by mixing with other things.

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Music, Recipes, Photos, and mo

http://www.sequoiagrove.dk

"You don´t frighten us, English pig-dogs! Go and boil your bottoms, sons
of a silly person. I blow my nose at you, so-called Arthur-king, you and
all your silly English kaniggets. Thppppt!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Michael Archon Sequoia Nielsen" wrote in
message ...

Lindt (Switzerland) is ok for cooking and they
have a 99%, but 85% should be fine for a
chocolate sauce.

The chocolate "buttons" are really good for cooking -- I've been quite
pleased.

Dolfin (Belgium) is also really good and have
interesting packaging.

Neuhaus (Belgium) is boring to eat pure, but
fine for cooking.

Cote d'Or is quite good, too -- the Noir de Noir is most excellent for
cooking and eating. I don't remember the percentage on it at the moment,
and I think we're out ...

Novi (Italy) has some dull standard chocs, but
some excellent single region chocolates. The one
from Ghana is amazing.

Valrhona's single estate chocolates are number 1,
and it is a sin to ruin them by mixing with other things.

I haven't found Valrhona in large, cooking-sized bars here; I see the
occasional "eating" bar, but consider those to be too expensive to cook
with. I wish I could find the couverture.

Michael, are you finding these chocolates in DK? I can get Lindt, but I'm
not finding much else by way of "high-end" chocolates here. I've been
reduced to buying on the infrequent occasions when I'm in the US and
chivvying the husband to purchase when he's in Belgium.

-j

jacqui{JB} wrote:
"Michael Archon Sequoia Nielsen" wrote in
message ...

Lindt (Switzerland) is ok for cooking and they
have a 99%, but 85% should be fine for a
chocolate sauce.

The chocolate "buttons" are really good for cooking -- I've been quite
pleased.

From Lindt?

The only ones I know are Vekao, not chocolate (from Odense?)

Cote d'Or is quite good, too -- the Noir de Noir is most excellent for
cooking and eating. I don't remember the percentage on it at the moment,
and I think we're out ...

I have tried some Cote D'or and didn't like it. Fake vanilla I believe.
Noir de Noir is 56%.

Michael, are you finding these chocolates in DK? I can get Lindt, but I'm
not finding much else by way of "high-end" chocolates here. I've been
reduced to buying on the infrequent occasions when I'm in the US and
chivvying the husband to purchase when he's in Belgium.

I buy Valrhona in Salling and Kronen. I can get the 1 kg bars, but I
usually buy the estate versions and the 71% Amer Noir. When I cook I get
something like Lindt.

Novi Ghana can be found at the butcher or Italian Gourmet import shops
(but it is cheaper to buy lots when in Italy at e.g. Milano Airport -
about 2 euro per 100 gram). Thre's also an Ecuador and something else,
but they are not as good as Ghana.

Dolfin is something I found in Belgium to be much better than Neuhaus.

Neuhaus can be bought at H.J Hansen wine store.



--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Music, Recipes, Photos, and mo

http://www.sequoiagrove.dk

"You don´t frighten us, English pig-dogs! Go and boil your bottoms, sons
of a silly person. I blow my nose at you, so-called Arthur-king, you and
all your silly English kaniggets. Thppppt!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

at Thu, 25 May 2006 10:41:48 GMT in
,
(Michael Archon Sequoia Nielsen) wrote :

aem wrote:
Alex Rast wrote:

4 oz - 2 cups milk? Not a very strong dip. That's more like a mild
chocolate pudding recipe. If you want a strong flavour, therefore,
you need a powerful chocolate, especially since it has added sugar.
Really, you should consider a quality unsweetened chocolate.

Unsweetened? Does dark chocolate come both sweetened and unsweetened?
I gather you're saying unsweetened is stronger flavored....

Yup - dark chocolate comes in both. Unsweetened is stronger flavoured - and
not just by the percentage difference. Here's why. Chocolate itself has 2
parts - cocoa butter (the fat) and defatted cocoa solids. It's the latter
that contribute the vast bulk of the flavour. Now, when a manufacturer
lists cocoa solids percentage on the label, it means the percentage of both
of these ingredients.

However, for good texture, a chocolate has to have a certain minimum of
cocoa butter - often considered to be around 35%, and some have up to 55%.
Meanwhile, pure chocolate has about 50-55% cocoa butter. So it has
something in the neighbourhood of 45-50% defatted cocoa solids. Meanwhile,
a sweetened chocolate must perforce maintain the approximately 35-40% cocoa
butter minimum. If, then, you add sugar, say, to create a 70% bar, then
that leaves 30-35% of the total bar left for defatted cocoa solids. Hence
the ratio of cocoa butter to defatted cocoa powder is somewhere from 1:1 to
4:3. 1:1 is a close approximation to unsweetened chocolate, but 4:3 favours
cocoa butter - and so the chocolate tastes even weaker, relative to its
percentage, than an unsweetened chocolate would at the same concentration.
Below 70% cocoa solids, then, as I think you can see, things will quickly
get worse in a hurry - so that at a seemingly robust 50% cocoa solids the
chocolate can have at most a feeble 15% defatted cocoa solids (flavour
component) and will certainly end up tasting pretty weak in comparison.
Diluting it still further by mixing it in with other ingredients
(especially milk) only would make a bad situation worse. That's why
unsweetened chocolate gives you far more chocolate punch.

When a chocolate has a percentage and 100- that percentage (say, C %) is
the amount of sugar. So when 100 - C % approaches zero, it is
approaching the unsweetened state. Usually C is max 99%.

Domori, Bonnat, and Slitti all make full-fledged 100% bars. Cluizel's is
99% as is Lindt's.

I'm writing these brand names down, thanks.

I would like to add, the Cruizel Mitchel tends to have a smokey hint,
which I do not like.

Michel Cluizel has comparatively little smokiness compared to the really
dark roasters like Pralus. But he does roast a little darker than the light
roasters - Valrhona and Scharffen Berger.

I adore Valrhona (France), but think it is a pitty to cook with it, even
though my chocolate book calls for specific Valrhona chocolates for each
recipe.

Yeah - so you like a light-roast, fruity chocolate. If you want to get
really specific, you might try to head for the fruitiest beans - Sur Del
Lago Clasificado, Porcelana, and Colombia Nacional. Guittard produces
superb versions of the Sur Del Lago and Colombia varietals, and although
you might be tempted to splurge for the Valrhona Porcelana instead get
Domori's Porcelana which is not only cheaper but far better (and fruitier)

Valrhona is very good to cook with, and while in some ways nothing beats
straight chocolate, it pays off to use a high-quality chocolate in baking
and cooking as opposed to a cheap brand. You will notice the difference
easily as long as you're not clumsy and scorch the chocolate. Valrhona is
particularly well-suited, btw, because with its light roast it will take
more baking time before the flavour starts to diminish.

Like, filled chocolates calls for a specific chocolate which has
a higher fat content than the others, so it shines better. The mousse is
made with one which is purely the criollo cocoa bean.

Manjari? Manjari is sourced from Madagascar beans which I agree are
particularly well-suited for mousse. I actually have to say, though, that
there are better Madagascar chocolates. Best is Amedei's - and it will be
wondrous indeed in a mousse. Next best is (surprise!) Lindt's.

The hot chocolate
is made with one which is purely the trinitario bean, etc...

Caraibe. Again, good choice. Trinitarios tend to have a spicy
characteristic which in a hot chocolate comes out very well. However, for a
hot chocolate I'd dial up the intensity over the comparatively mild Caraibe
and use something like Dagoba's Eclipse 87%. And with hot chocolate a dark
roast is also desirable: dark roast complements dairy very well. In this
regard Pralus is the clear winner, especially Pralus Indonesie.

I would not use cornstarch or any other starch to thicken a chocolate
sauce, I would just find the ratio between chocolate and liquid (nothing
less fatty than whole-milk) that still has the desired viscosity.

Yeah, as I said before it's like chocolate pudding. However, Spanish
tradition commonly puts cornstarch in chocolate so I'm not disputing the
authenticity of the approach.

Lindt (Switzerland) is ok for cooking and they have a 99%, but 85%
should be fine for a chocolate sauce.

The 85% is an awe-inspiring chocolate, the best 85% in the business.
Lindt' 99% isn't quite as good as Cluizel's or Domori's 100% but it's not a
bad effort by any means. However, it does taste suspiciously Dutch. This is
something you'll either like or not. Dutch chocolate always has a much
darker, almost black, colour and a distinctive metallic twang to the
flavour. The flavour is inevitably milder, belying the dark colour, and
generally less bitter.

Dolfin (Belgium) is also really good and have interesting packaging.

Dolfin's 70% is excellent, although IMHO a poor match for this particular
application.

Neuhaus (Belgium) is boring to eat pure, but fine for cooking.

The new Neuhaus origin chocolates are in a completely different stratum
from their regular chocolates which are pretty ho-hum. Both Occumare 71%
and West Africa 73% are great. Sao Tome is also very good. I was blown away
- I was never expecting this level of quality from them.

Novi (Italy) has some dull standard chocs, but some excellent single
region chocolates. The one from Ghana is amazing.

Valrhona's single estate chocolates are number 1, and it is a sin to
ruin them by mixing with other things.

Actually, single-estate chocolates work very well mixed with other things -
you just have to be very particular and careful about what you mix with
them. Single-estate chocolates have very characteristic flavours, which
means they harmonise well with some ingredients, badly with others. So, in
Valrhona's case:

Gran Couva : particularly superb with mint, berries. Disastrous with coffee
and nuts.

Ampamakia : a good complement to cinnamon and raisins. Don't mix with
peanuts, butter, bread, or blackberries.

Palmira : Perhaps even better than Ampamakia with raisins and currants.
Also good with sweet, caramelly flavours. Mixing with dairy tends to make
it washed out. Spices like cinnamon or clove will also clash.

Porcelana : Literally a match made in heaven for chestnuts. Very suitable,
in fact, with all varieties of nuts. Cream however will really obliterate
the flavour. Never use with citrus either.

Chuao : Now gone - because all the supply goes to Amedei, and I think
rightfully so. Amedei's Chuao always ran rings around Varhona's, and is
surely among the best chocolates ever made. However, Valrhona's Chuao would
have been a good complement for coffee and brown sugar. But why waste time?
Amedei's Chuao will also work for that, is still available, and is a better
chocolate.

--
Alex Rast

(remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)

jacqui{JB} wrote:

Yes, from Lindt. They come stacked in a tube, each about the size of two
stacked 20kr pieces. I picked some up from Føtex, Christmas before last.

Summerbird makes some organic chocolates which they sell in pre-chopped
packages. They sell these for those pretty porcelain fondue things
powered by a teacandle. They also have the chocolate bars in 80 gram
packages. It is very good, too.

Neither the Noir (at 45%, it's acceptable for general [not to be confused
with special] baking stuff) nor the Noir de Noir (which you're right, is
56%) list vanilla or vanillin on the label.

That's because there's no vanilla in those particular series. But the
chocs that does have "vanilla flavour" have vanillin instead. When they
cheat with that stuff, I have to wonder what kind of cocoa beans they
use as well.

And I was just there in January, damnit. Of course, I was more busy dealing
with the after-effects of my best girlfriend's abusive spouse than worrying
about chocolate. Meh, priorities.

You could have gotten her something for comfort.



--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Music, Recipes, Photos, and mo

http://www.sequoiagrove.dk

"You don´t frighten us, English pig-dogs! Go and boil your bottoms, sons
of a silly person. I blow my nose at you, so-called Arthur-king, you and
all your silly English kaniggets. Thppppt!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alex Rast wrote:
at Thu, 25 May 2006 10:41:48 GMT in
,
(Michael Archon Sequoia Nielsen) wrote :

aem wrote:
Alex Rast wrote:

4 oz - 2 cups milk? Not a very strong dip. That's more like a mild
chocolate pudding recipe. If you want a strong flavour, therefore,
you need a powerful chocolate, especially since it has added sugar.
Really, you should consider a quality unsweetened chocolate.

Unsweetened? Does dark chocolate come both sweetened and unsweetened?
I gather you're saying unsweetened is stronger flavored....

Yup - dark chocolate comes in both. Unsweetened is stronger flavoured - and
not just by the percentage difference. Here's why. [snip extensive explanation]

Thanks. Way more info than I can assimilate all at once, but I'll keep
it for reference. And I have bookmarked the chocosphere site, which is
also really good.

What are your favorites to accompany red wine? A nice Bordeaux or
pinot noir, say. -aem

at Fri, 26 May 2006 10:27:09 GMT in
,
(Michael Archon Sequoia Nielsen) wrote :

Alex Rast wrote:
However, for good texture, a chocolate has to have a certain minimum
of cocoa butter - often considered to be around 35%, and some have up
to 55%.

Now the quiz is what is the name of the high-fat Valrhona? (I'll have to
look it up the book, but you seem to know everything by heart)

It's rather the reverse - i.e. which Valrhonas have *low* fat. Most
Valrhona chocolate is couverture-grade and thus is high-fat. Caraque - a
semisweet, is somewhat lower in fat that most of the others. On the high
side, Guanaja and Araguani are both very high-fat, which is also why they
have such a smooth finish.

Domori, Bonnat, and Slitti all make full-fledged 100% bars.

I've never seen those brands.

Depends on the distribution. I'm not really up to speed on distribution in
Denmark but there are sources in Germany:

http://www.berliner-kaffeeroesterei.de

seems to have the best selection.

Michel Cluizel has comparatively little smokiness compared to the
really dark roasters like Pralus. But he does roast a little darker
than the light roasters - Valrhona and Scharffen Berger.

Valrhona also dries the beans in the sun, instead of over a fire, which
many manufacturers do.

That's not really in the control of the manufacturer. Manufacturers source
from various plantations and the drying process happens there, so it's more
or less up to the plantation what to do. Generally local tradition tends to
dictate what the plantation does. A few manufacturers - Domori in
particular and Amedei in the case of Chuao - have more explicit control
over what the plantation does but these are exceptions.

Yeah - so you like a light-roast, fruity chocolate.
If you want to get
really specific, you might try to head for the fruitiest beans - Sur
Del Lago Clasificado, Porcelana, and Colombia Nacional. Valrhona
Porcelana

I've never heard of Porcelana?

Really? You've got to be among the few chocophiles I've talked to who
doesn't. Porcelana is one of those ridiculously fashionable, crazily-
sought-after beans that caught the public hype a few years back. Domori is
the company responsible for popularising it - and it's easy to see why.
Domori's Porcelana is one of the greatest chocolates on the market - a
paragon of delicacy and sophistication. When it was first released it was a
revelation to people used to the brute strength of other beans. Porcelana
is also, as far as anyone can tell, the one whose genetic origins are
closest to pure wild Criollo cocoa - this doesn't mean much perhaps in and
of itself and the question of what is "pure" is itself pretty vague. But
Domori did a good job marketing that crucial fact so people latched on to
it. I still give credit to the chocolate itself, because all that hype
would have been so much hot air and died away quickly had the chocolate not
lived up to expectations, but it did and the rest, as they say is history.
Meanwhile, other chocolatiers, eager to get on the bandwagon, quickly
followed suit with their own versions, which have generally been worse. I
think, in any case, that you will really love Domori's version and you
should try it ASAP.

Manjari?

Excellent

Manjari is sourced from Madagascar beans which I agree are
particularly well-suited for mousse. I actually have to say, though,
that there are better Madagascar chocolates. Best is Amedei's - and it
will be wondrous indeed in a mousse. Next best is (surprise!) Lindt's.

I'vre seen amadei at the airport, I'll have to try it.

Well, this is a bit difficult because the only format in which Amedei
currently distributes their Madagascar is in annoying 5g tasting squares,
which furthermore are part of an assortment containing various origins. Not
that the other origins aren't worth trying - many of them are very good
indeed and if you like fruity flavours you'll be delighted with their
Trinidad - but if you want to have a *specific* chocolate it's frustrating.
Pralus figured out the right way to package a tasting assortment - his
"Pyramide des Tropiques" contains 10 bars, each a different varietal, each
50g apiece. The tissue paper should be replaced with foil, but that's a
detail. However since you're not fond of dark, smoky chocolates this is a
moot point because Pralus is the epitome of that style - so for you I
wouldn't recommend it.

...I'd dial up the intensity over the comparatively
mild Caraibe and use something like Dagoba's Eclipse 87%. And with hot
chocolate a dark roast is also desirable: dark roast complements dairy
very well. In this regard Pralus is the clear winner, especially
Pralus Indonesie.

Haven't seen those brands around.

Dagoba could be difficult. It's a US brand.

Neuhaus (Belgium) is boring to eat pure, but fine for cooking.

The new Neuhaus origin chocolates are in a completely different
stratum from their regular chocolates...

I've seen some new Neuhaus stuff at the wine store, I should give them a
try.

Be careful, it's only the origin bars, in distinctive wrappers that look a
lot like a sleeve for an airplane ticket, that are genuninely good.

Gran Couva : particularly superb with mint, berries. Disastrous with
coffee and nuts.

This was a really good pure chocolate experience. For when you really
feel the urge for a real chocolate taste.

Probably the best of Valrhona's origin bars but I'd consider it highly
characterised rather than a pure chocolate experience. From my POV at least
the closest bar to tasting "chocolatey" with no other components is
Cluizel's Noir 72%. With its lack of distinctive components, some may think
it a little uninteresting but I think it's superb - how can one beat the
essence of chocolatiness?

Ampamakia : a good complement to cinnamon and raisins. Don't mix with
Palmira : Perhaps even better than Ampamakia with raisins and
currants.

My favourites! Smooth and fruity for an exotic experience.

Palmira isn't really smooth, at least not IME, but it's *very* exotic.
Fruity, yes, and in a way very different from what Valrhona usually does.

Porcelana : Literally a match made in heaven for chestnuts. Very
suitable, in fact, with all varieties of nuts. Cream however will
really obliterate the flavour. Never use with citrus either.

haven't seen this.

Big $. In England it's 50 pounds for a 324 g box. Overhyped presentation in
a pentagonal box containing chocolate moulded into the form of a cacao
flower (who let the marketroids loose? Quick, Valrhona, catch them before
they escape and multiply). It's good, although as I say not really as good
as the Domori version.

Chuao : Now gone - because all the supply goes to Amedei, and I think

I wasn't that fond of this one.

It would *definitely* have been your least favourite. Valrhona's Chuao
wasn't very fruity - a real departure for them - it was very earthy and I
think they overroasted it. In fact, Valrhona's version would have been very
close to the kind of flavour which would be the definition of what you
would dislike. Amedei's OTOH, you will probably like. I don't think you'll
like it as much as me (you prefer a brighter, redder fruitiness in contrast
to the purple-blue, darker fruitiness of Amedei Chuao) but I still think
you'll be impressed.

You are very knowledgeable in the field - you wouldn't happen to be that
guy who has a chocolate review site that I emailed a year or so ago?

Is that SeventyPercent.com? No, I'm not Martin Christy but I write reviews
for the site and know him very well. Seventypercent.com is one of the very
best online chocolate stores, as well. Highly recommended.

I guess you wouldn't know that the danish brand Anton Berg is trying to
get into the gourmet chocolate market with some single region
chocolates: Ghana (60% with bean nips), Ecuador (72%) and New Guinea
(72%)? For the price they are quite good.

No. I will have to try them when I get the chance. Thanks for the info.


http://www.northerner.com/html/mat-a...erg-kakor.html

I am eating the Ghana right now, with a single estate plantation coffee
(Yellow Catuai, Minas Gerias, Brazil). I generally prefer Ethiopian,
Kenyan, Sumatra and Sulawesi coffees, but this is excellent.

How interesting! In coffee you generally lean towards the reverse of what
you like in chocolate - namely towards rich, full-bodied coffees. However,
I think in both cases I do detect the crucial factor. That you like
Ethiopian coffee is the giveaway, together with the Palmira. What you like
more than anything else is a very complex flavour profile - one with many
distinctive components that show up. This sheds additional light on your
comparative lack of interest in Cluizel. His style aims for carefully
harmonised, perfected chocolates with a good even profile, rather than ones
with many characteristics each vying for attention. I think his philosophy
is that you can overdo it with complexity - so much so that the result is
confusing rather than pleasing: the palate can only process so many
flavours at once. It's really too bad you're not in the USA, because then
you could get Guittard's L'Harmonie, one of the most astonishingly complex
chocolates ever. A chocolate you definitely should try is Domori's Chacao
Absolute.

--
Alex Rast

(remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)

at Fri, 26 May 2006 16:23:41 GMT in
.com,
(aem) wrote :


Alex Rast wrote:
at Thu, 25 May 2006 10:41:48 GMT in
,
(Michael Archon Sequoia Nielsen) wrote :

aem wrote:
Alex Rast wrote:
....

Yup - dark chocolate comes in both. Unsweetened is stronger flavoured
- and not just by the percentage difference. Here's why. [snip
extensive explanation]

Thanks. Way more info than I can assimilate all at once, but I'll keep
it for reference. And I have bookmarked the chocosphere site, which is
also really good.

What are your favorites to accompany red wine? A nice Bordeaux or
pinot noir, say. -aem


Not having chocolate. Seriously, chocolate and red wine are legendary for
clashing in an extreme way. You ruin both the flavour of the chocolate and
the wine. It's considered to be a textbook example of a "never do this". If
you feel you must have something to accompany chocolate, a good coffee is
probably the best choice. Still, if you want to taste the pure sensation of
chocolate, by itself is perhaps best - unless you're tasting multiple
different chocolates. In that case you should make a very soupy warm gruel
out of coarse cornmeal (such as polenta or hominy grits) and take sips
between chocolates. It sounds wierd and off-putting but it's classic and
time-honoured. This is what the indigenous Mesoamericans did long before
the advent of Columbus.

--
Alex Rast

(remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)

"Alex Rast" wrote in message
...
at Fri, 26 May 2006 16:23:41 GMT in
What are your favorites to accompany red wine? A nice Bordeaux or
pinot noir, say. -aem


Not having chocolate. Seriously, chocolate and red wine are legendary for
clashing in an extreme way. You ruin both the flavour of the chocolate and
the wine. It's considered to be a textbook example of a "never do this".
If
you feel you must have something to accompany chocolate, a good coffee is
probably the best choice. Still, if you want to taste the pure sensation
of
chocolate, by itself is perhaps best - unless you're tasting multiple
different chocolates. In that case you should make a very soupy warm gruel
out of coarse cornmeal (such as polenta or hominy grits) and take sips
between chocolates. It sounds wierd and off-putting but it's classic and
time-honoured. This is what the indigenous Mesoamericans did long before
the advent of Columbus.

--
Alex Rast



Interesting.

1. Are you saying that the Mesoamericans were tasting various chocolates and
used the gruel to cleanse their palate between tastes of various chocolates?

2. Are you sayin that the Mesoamericans preferred to use gruel to cleanse
their palate between tastes of any one particular chocolate they were
eating.

3. Are you saying that the Mesoamericans preferrred to have gruel with
chocolate, just as some might prefer it with wine/port today?

4. Are you saying that the Mesoamericans preferrred to have gruel with
chocolate, just as some might prefer it with wine/port today, but that it
was later discovered that it cleansed the palate.


My personal preference is chocolate alone, but sometimes (but not often) I
do like a little port with it.
Dee Dee

aem wrote:
Thanks. Way more info than I can assimilate all at once, but I'll keep
it for reference. And I have bookmarked the chocosphere site, which is
also really good.

What are your favorites to accompany red wine? A nice Bordeaux or
pinot noir, say. -aem

I prefer coffee with it, but have found that a overseas (reference point
in Europe) cab. sauv (say, Napa Valley). For Europe, maybe a big Rhone.
But normally a Banyul is served for chocolate.


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Alex Rast wrote:
It's rather the reverse - i.e. which Valrhonas have *low* fat. Most
Valrhona chocolate is couverture-grade and thus is high-fat. Caraque - a
semisweet, is somewhat lower in fat that most of the others. On the high
side, Guanaja and Araguani are both very high-fat, which is also why they
have such a smooth finish.


Yes, Caraque was the one the chef, who hosted the chocolate course,
mentioned, but I was pretty sure he said it had higher fat content than
the others and therefore more shiny as a cover for filled chocolates
(instead of people adding paraffin). Maybe relative to the cocoa content?

Caraque 37% fat to 56% cocoa = 0.66
Le Noir Gastronomie 38.5% fat to 61% cocoa = 0.63
Manjari 40.5% fat to 64% cocoa = 0.63
Caraibe 40.5% fat to 66.5% cocoa = 0.61


That's not really in the control of the manufacturer. Manufacturers source
from various plantations and the drying process happens there, so it's more
or less up to the plantation what to do. Generally local tradition tends to
dictate what the plantation does. A few manufacturers - Domori in
particular and Amedei in the case of Chuao - have more explicit control
over what the plantation does but these are exceptions.

The chef told that Valrhona have control, because they grow 80% of their
cocoa, cane sugar, and vanilla themselves.

Really? You've got to be among the few chocophiles I've talked to who
doesn't. Porcelana is one of those ridiculously fashionable, crazily-
sought-after beans that caught the public hype a few years back. Domori is
the company responsible for popularising it - and it's easy to see why.

I think the normal Valrhona and Mitchel Cruitzel chocs are the top the
price that can be sold in Denmark. In this country nobody is poor, but
nobody is rich either. It is a rich country with a mediocre population
(one of the mantras of my political party that fights for individual
freedom)


Be careful, it's only the origin bars, in distinctive wrappers that look a
lot like a sleeve for an airplane ticket, that are genuninely good.

Yeah, that is the type of packaging I saw, but I didn't dare try, when
the normal neuhaus was so boring and the price was higher than Valrhona,
and the fact that they use fake vanilla and hydrogenated oils in the
filled chocolates also ticks me off...

Ampamakia : a good complement to cinnamon and raisins. Don't mix with
Palmira : Perhaps even better than Ampamakia with raisins and
currants.
My favourites! Smooth and fruity for an exotic experience.

Palmira isn't really smooth, at least not IME, but it's *very* exotic.
Fruity, yes, and in a way very different from what Valrhona usually does.

OK, I've only tasted Palmira once, but I've eaten a lot of Ampamakia. I
groups them because the store stopped having Ampamakia lately and
started Palmira as replacement for it.


Big $. In England it's 50 pounds for a 324 g box. Overhyped presentation in
a pentagonal box containing chocolate moulded into the form of a cacao
flower (who let the marketroids loose? Quick, Valrhona, catch them before
they escape and multiply). It's good, although as I say not really as good
as the Domori version.

I think they can't sell it here. Maybe they can in Copenhagen or en
gourmet stores north of copenhagen, where the people with money lives.


I guess you wouldn't know that the danish brand Anton Berg is trying to
get into the gourmet chocolate market with some single region
chocolates: Ghana (60% with bean nips), Ecuador (72%) and New Guinea
(72%)? For the price they are quite good.

No. I will have to try them when I get the chance. Thanks for the info.

It is not as good as the fancy expensive foreign stuff, but given that
the darkest Danish chocolate you could get 5 years ago was barely 50%
and fake vanilla and sometimes added vegetable oils, this is a huge step up.


How interesting! In coffee you generally lean towards the reverse of what
you like in chocolate - namely towards rich, full-bodied coffees.

Exactly (also my wines), but the African coffees also have the fruity
notes, like black currant. However, Sulawesi/Sumatra are more earthy,
but I do not like the same coffee everyday, I need some variation. I
mostly drink the African ones. Peet's Coffee in Davis was very fond of
me and often gave me free samples, because they enjoyed discussing with
me. I got a small bag of their most expensive coffee Aged Sulawesi
Peaberry. Wow, that was like having an earthy Sulawesi coffee AND a
fruity African coffee at the same time - not meddled together - but
first one taste and then the other.


However,
I think in both cases I do detect the crucial factor. That you like
Ethiopian coffee is the giveaway, together with the Palmira. What you like
more than anything else is a very complex flavour profile - one with many
distinctive components that show up.

Hah, like with wine. the guy in my wine store, who knows me best,
describes my taste: "you'll like this Pauillac Cru Bourgeois, it's like
getting a donkey kick in the face". Other favorites are traditional
Rioja Grand Reserva (the best: Lopez de Heredia Tondonia - WOW!
http://www.wineanorak.com/lopez_heredia.htm ), Aged Napa valley cab.
sauv. (e.g. Sequoia Grove Reserve Cabernet - my name brother ) and
Syrah/Shiraz. For White Wine it is buttery oaky chardonnay. For port it
is the L.B.V. and Vintage ports. Annoying 'cos the type of wine I like
is generally 15-30$ in Denmark. Other people just get a 3-6% wine, but I
don't like those. Sometimes I'm lucky to get a good Cotes du Rhone
Villages at a good price.

I checked my email archive and found the review guy I thought were you
is called Mark Canizaro. He actually said that Valrhona does not travel
well, because in the US it is not as good as in Europe.

http://www.xocoatl.org/

--
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Music, Recipes, Photos, and mo

http://www.sequoiagrove.dk

"You don´t frighten us, English pig-dogs! Go and boil your bottoms, sons
of a silly person. I blow my nose at you, so-called Arthur-king, you and
all your silly English kaniggets. Thppppt!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alex Rast wrote:
I guess you wouldn't know that the danish brand Anton Berg is trying to
get into the gourmet chocolate market with some single region
chocolates: Ghana (60% with bean nips), Ecuador (72%) and New Guinea
(72%)? For the price they are quite good.

No. I will have to try them when I get the chance. Thanks for the info.

I am having the New Guinea today - BAD! Do not get that one...
I am also having the Ecuador. You might like it, because it has that
smoky flavor.

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Music, Recipes, Photos, and mo

http://www.sequoiagrove.dk

"You don´t frighten us, English pig-dogs! Go and boil your bottoms, sons
of a silly person. I blow my nose at you, so-called Arthur-king, you and
all your silly English kaniggets. Thppppt!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------