On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 14:10:25 GMT, Margaret Suran wrote:

When you prepare your apartment for this holiday and get rid of every
trace of bread and other forbidden foods, you are supposed to take a
long feather and with it clean all otherwise inaccessible nooks,
crannies and corners, lest there is a crumb that was overlooked. I
doubt that most of my Orthodox friends (actually David H is the only
one I have) still do it. Where would they get long feathers?

I guess "long" depends on where you live and the native birds.... but
I would guess that a peacock feather would do the trick here. Don't
most zoos sell peacock feathers?
--

Practice safe eating. Always use condiments.

sf wrote:
On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 14:10:25 GMT, Margaret Suran wrote:

When you prepare your apartment for this holiday and get rid of every
trace of bread and other forbidden foods, you are supposed to take a
long feather and with it clean all otherwise inaccessible nooks,
crannies and corners, lest there is a crumb that was overlooked. I
doubt that most of my Orthodox friends (actually David H is the only
one I have) still do it. Where would they get long feathers?

I guess "long" depends on where you live and the native birds.... but
I would guess that a peacock feather would do the trick here. Don't
most zoos sell peacock feathers?

Yeah, but... peahen is better... for peacock feathers there'd need to
be a little bris. hehe

Sheldon Plumeberg

Margaret Suran wrote:


Melba's Jammin' wrote:

In article , bulka wrote:


sarah bennett wrote:



Thanks, but, man-o-man! How does anyone keep track of this stuff? I
knew it was complicated, but my head is starting to hurt! Between
kashrut and midrash and probably other things I've never heard of,
how is anyone an observant orthodox, let alone a rabbi, without being
driven completely crazy?



These are topics discussed for centuries and for some, there is no
clear answer. Several years ago I wanted to know whether caraway
seeds are Kosher For Passover. I called the Jewish Theological
Seminary. Nobody there (Orthodox rabbis and rabbinical students) had
a clear cut answer. I received several telephone calls, but the best
they could come up with was not to eat any during the holiday, just to
be sure. I never told them that I am not adhering to any of the
Jewish dietary laws, of course.

What makes you think they're not completely crazy? "-) I think you
'learn' this stuff by growing up with it -- not,perhaps, really
understanding the rationale behind the rules, but observing the rules
nonetheless. "I can have this, this, not this, this or this,
but not that or that. OK. Fein. Or fine,. "-) For a novice,
maybe you ask smart people whose opinions or references you respect.

Unless you are a fanatic Orthodox Jew, you make your own laws for this
and most other holidays. Even the Orthodox Jews I know, compromise to
a certain degree.

When you prepare your apartment for this holiday and get rid of every
trace of bread and other forbidden foods, you are supposed to take a
long feather and with it clean all otherwise inaccessible nooks,
crannies and corners, lest there is a crumb that was overlooked. I
doubt that most of my Orthodox friends (actually David H is the only one
I have) still do it. Where would they get long feathers?


every orthodox family I know does this. they clean" for real" in the
weeks leading up to pesach, and then on the eve of the eve of pesach, do
the candle and feather thing (my mom would wrap pieces of bread in
plastic wrap so that there owuld be leavened stuff to "find"). when we
were kids we liked to help with that. In the morning we would burn it in
a big metal trashcan in our back yard.

Yes, of course. I'm the only one making anything out of this. I'll
be entertained, challenged for a few days, learn some strange and
interesting things, meet some new people, have a nice
meal. bulka



How did it go?


Good for you! Broaden your horizons. Is this your first seder? My
son has attended a Passover seder several times. I'll have to ask
him if he's brought a dish and if so, what it was.


It is my guess that he was not asked to bring a dish for the Seder.
First of all, the hosts traditionally do all the cooking or preparing or
buying of the meal. Second, the host would not take a chance that the
dish is not cooked exactly as expected. Perhaps a bowl of cut up fresh
fruit or something on that order would be acceptable, but that is about
all.


We'll be interested to know what you brought.


I am waiting to hear.


I wanna know, too!


--

saerah

http://anisaerah.cmayes.net/blog/

email:
anisaerah at s b c global.net

Adam Bowman wrote:
I always wonder when someone brings up a point about Bush, and you
then bring up something that Clinton did, are you saying they are both
wrong? Because that's all it points out to me, places where they both
messed up. It doesn't negate the fact that Bush did wrong; was that
your intention?

That type of argument is like

"Bob shot someone"

"Yeah, but don't you remember when Don hit that guy with a bat?"

"Margaret Suran" wrote

When you prepare your apartment for this holiday and get rid of every
trace of bread and other forbidden foods, you are supposed to take a long
feather and with it clean all otherwise inaccessible nooks, crannies and
corners, lest there is a crumb that was overlooked. I doubt that most of
my Orthodox friends (actually David H is the only one I have) still do it.
Where would they get long feathers?

I was in a sewing store today and of course I thought of you
when I saw the long feathers for sale. (smile)

On another note, in the past day or so I saw in the paper an
article about Passover preparations. One picture was of a woman
in a kosher store covering the products that people were not to
buy for the holiday. I would have thought anything kosher would
do. Perhaps there is a special distinction that is escaping me.

nancy

Nancy Young wrote:
"Margaret Suran" wrote


When you prepare your apartment for this holiday and get rid of every
trace of bread and other forbidden foods, you are supposed to take a long
feather and with it clean all otherwise inaccessible nooks, crannies and
corners, lest there is a crumb that was overlooked. I doubt that most of
my Orthodox friends (actually David H is the only one I have) still do it.
Where would they get long feathers?


I was in a sewing store today and of course I thought of you
when I saw the long feathers for sale. (smile)

On another note, in the past day or so I saw in the paper an
article about Passover preparations. One picture was of a woman
in a kosher store covering the products that people were not to
buy for the holiday. I would have thought anything kosher would
do. Perhaps there is a special distinction that is escaping me.

nancy



basically, all processed products processed on equipment that has been
used to produce items with prohibited (for passovr) ingredients are not
kosher for passover. They make special runs on separate or cleaned
equipment, and that stuff is labeled as kosher ofor passover.

I have to get Ellie ready in a bit. She only knows one of the four
questions, and in English, but she's only 4.

--

saerah

http://anisaerah.cmayes.net/blog/

email:
anisaerah at s b c global.net

Adam Bowman wrote:
I always wonder when someone brings up a point about Bush, and you
then bring up something that Clinton did, are you saying they are both
wrong? Because that's all it points out to me, places where they both
messed up. It doesn't negate the fact that Bush did wrong; was that
your intention?

That type of argument is like

"Bob shot someone"

"Yeah, but don't you remember when Don hit that guy with a bat?"

the last minute update


some research results -

I found rec.food.cuisine.jewish too late to post there, but if it is any
consolation, some folks there seem to be as confused as I am, albeit
with finer distinctions and more technical terms. Now I understand
Sheldon's saying not to bring anything cooked. Not so much from
proscription, as that, otherwise, it's a minefield.

There is also kashrut.com and kashrut.org. From my brief visits, .org
is the most useful.

Of course, Google found lots of recipies. I can't remember where I
went. I did write down caryn.com . If it is the one I'm thinking of,
the relevant area there has non-traditional but, in her view, legit
recipies that sound good, but the place is littered with ads. It may be
her carrots I'm making, though.

the plan -

For tonight, I threw up my hands. I'll bring (sorry Sheldon, but they
did ask) something that has been well recieved at other pot-lucks,
something that I like that will should be OK with slight modification,
and a new thing that sounds good, and an experiment:

pickled eggs and beets, on a bed of greens

asparagus (green and white)

caryn.com's (?) honey glazed baby carrots

a babaganous-ish dip with a box of Manischewitz Passover Matzo Crackers

The worst thing is that I bought MARGARINE, for the first time since I
can remember. In the siprit of the day, Fleischmann's. I just doesn't
ruin the carrots. Maybe I'll go with balsamic and olive oil on the
asparqagus instead.

I don't even know if "Christmas Catholic" is a term, but I hope there is
a Jewish equivalent, and I hope that's where I'm going.

I'll let you know

bulka

On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 17:20:26 -0500, bulka wrote:

the last minute update


some research results -

I found rec.food.cuisine.jewish too late to post there, but if it is any
consolation, some folks there seem to be as confused as I am, albeit
with finer distinctions and more technical terms. Now I understand
Sheldon's saying not to bring anything cooked. Not so much from
proscription, as that, otherwise, it's a minefield.

There is also kashrut.com and kashrut.org. From my brief visits, .org
is the most useful.

Of course, Google found lots of recipies. I can't remember where I
went. I did write down caryn.com . If it is the one I'm thinking of,
the relevant area there has non-traditional but, in her view, legit
recipies that sound good, but the place is littered with ads. It may be
her carrots I'm making, though.

the plan -

For tonight, I threw up my hands. I'll bring (sorry Sheldon, but they
did ask) something that has been well recieved at other pot-lucks,
something that I like that will should be OK with slight modification,
and a new thing that sounds good, and an experiment:

pickled eggs and beets, on a bed of greens

asparagus (green and white)

caryn.com's (?) honey glazed baby carrots

a babaganous-ish dip with a box of Manischewitz Passover Matzo Crackers

The worst thing is that I bought MARGARINE, for the first time since I
can remember. In the siprit of the day, Fleischmann's. I just doesn't
ruin the carrots. Maybe I'll go with balsamic and olive oil on the
asparqagus instead.

I don't even know if "Christmas Catholic" is a term, but I hope there is
a Jewish equivalent, and I hope that's where I'm going.

I'll let you know

bulka

Kinda late, but this is a pretty good site for goyim seeking to
edumicate themselves:

http://www.chabad.ca/

Pesach pages: http://www.chabad.ca/holidays/passover/default.asp

In article , bulka wrote:


I don't even know if "Christmas Catholic" is a term,

I believe that's a "C, P, & E Christian."
--
-Barb
http://jamlady.eboard.com Updated 4-11-06, Church review #12

"If it's not worth doing to excess, it's not worth doing at all."

On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 17:20:26 -0500, bulka wrote:

the last minute update



the plan -

For tonight, I threw up my hands. I'll bring (sorry Sheldon, but they
did ask) something that has been well recieved at other pot-lucks,
something that I like that will should be OK with slight modification,
and a new thing that sounds good, and an experiment:

pickled eggs and beets, on a bed of greens

asparagus (green and white)

caryn.com's (?) honey glazed baby carrots

a babaganous-ish dip with a box of Manischewitz Passover Matzo Crackers


I'll let you know

bulka

I'm reading this with interest. Lucky you to get a chance to
experience another culture like this.

When you post after the event, tell us not only about the food, but
the whole occasion.

Thanks in advance
Kathy in NZ

Nancy Young wrote:

On another note, in the past day or so I saw in the paper an
article about Passover preparations. One picture was of a woman
in a kosher store covering the products that people were not to
buy for the holiday. I would have thought anything kosher would
do. Perhaps there is a special distinction that is escaping me.


There is. There is one set of laws pertaining to kosher for year round.
There is another set of laws pertaining to kosher-for-Passover. If
you look at products, you can see special symbols that make the
distinction. I never try to get too technical explaining religious
rationale because it is one of those things that make perfect sense if
you're within a religious group and can never make sense if you're
outside it, but it comes down to this:


Because the rule for Passover is
to eliminate certain grain products completely, homes and places that
produce food must be scrubbed down to make sure that not a crumb of
grain that might have come in contact with water (and thus be "leavened"
according to a religious definition, not a scientific one) is lurking
anywhere on the premises. This is such an important legal point that
religious inspectors have to be brought in to make sure that all the
cleaning is done correctly before a food product can have the special
"kosher-for-Passover" seal.


Further, while there are normally 2 sets of dishes and cooking
equipment, one for dairy and one for meat, for Passover there are 2
more, dairy-for-Passover and meat-for-Passover. (This isn't so bizarre
when you consider that many people have "everyday" dishes and "special
holiday" dishes.)


Religious families spend the week before Passover starts scrubbing down
their houses. Think of it as extreme spring cleaning. They might wash
clothes that were hung up clean to begin with to insure that no crumbs
made their way into pockets. They might use this opportunity to clean
carpets and drapes. Some families might change stove-tops or burners so
they can have special for Passover ones. (A lot depends on the wealth
of the family. If you can't afford all new everything, you make do.)


As for food prepared outside of the home, most factories scrub down
their equipment sufficiently nightly to make it kosher for Passover, but
you need to be inspected to get the special seal. That's worth it if
the product will be sold in areas with a large enough population to care
about such things. People who live outside the areas where food with
the special seal are sold sometimes go to great lengths to get food with
the seal. (They ask friends in New York to send it to them.)
(Alternately, they could eat plain meats and vegetables for the week and
skip the special Coca Cola altogether.) (There's a special Coca Cola
that's made with cane sugar instead of corn syrup that has the
kosher-for-Passover seal.)


As far as covering items that the store-owner doesn't wish customers to
buy, this is going to sound ridiculous, but here goes. Sometimes you're
in a position where you simply can't get rid of the grain you own.
Farmers can't very well dispose of their wheat fields for a week. They
need seed, etc. The store-owner can't get rid of her entire stock of
non-kosher-for-Passover food items and replenish after the holiday. The
best these folks can do is come up with a sort of legal fiction (a
fiction they take very seriously) to cover
them. They "sell" their fields and food for a nominal fee (perhaps a
dollar) with the stipulation that they can buy back at the end of the
holiday for same price. The woman with the non-kosher-for-Passover
items was covering them because she doesn't "own" them and therefore
can't sell them. (Like I said, this makes sense within the religious
community and doesn't work outside it.)


--Lia, bopping in now and then, but not following whole threads

"Julia Altshuler" wrote

Nancy Young wrote:

On another note, in the past day or so I saw in the paper an
article about Passover preparations. One picture was of a woman
in a kosher store covering the products that people were not to
buy for the holiday. I would have thought anything kosher would
do. Perhaps there is a special distinction that is escaping me.


There is. There is one set of laws pertaining to kosher for year round.
There is another set of laws pertaining to kosher-for-Passover. If
you look at products, you can see special symbols that make the
distinction. I never try to get too technical explaining religious
rationale because it is one of those things that make perfect sense if
you're within a religious group and can never make sense if you're
outside it, but it comes down to this:

I understand what you're saying about trying to explain it.
Thanks for the explanation, same to Sarah ... very interesting.
I thought it was strange, what could a kosher store sell normally
that it couldn't now. Gotcha.

nancy (off to see if the coke she bought this week is kosher
for passover)

Boozie Floozie wrote:
On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 15:35:30 -0400, "Nancy Young"
wrote:

On another note, in the past day or so I saw in the paper an
article about Passover preparations. One picture was of a woman
in a kosher store covering the products that people were not to
buy for the holiday. I would have thought anything kosher would
do. Perhaps there is a special distinction that is escaping me.

Passover has extra restrictions, mostly to do with leavening. No
leavened products (yeast, etc.), which extends to other products, too.
Here's a site that may be helpful to you:

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/kosher1.html

serene

Ack!! So no beer? It's basically the same ingredients as bread and
almost the same recipe.

I've heard that the Jews have had a rough time in the past, but nothing
could possible compare to no beer during Passover!

b.

wrote:


Ack!! So no beer? It's basically the same ingredients as bread and
almost the same recipe.

I've heard that the Jews have had a rough time in the past, but nothing
could possible compare to no beer during Passover!

Many of our ancestors have had a rough time through the ages. The suffering
thing seems to bind people for some reason. It is interesting that Jews
have some strict dietary laws, but then on top of those rules are the food
traditions of Passover.

wrote:

Ack!! So no beer? It's basically the same ingredients as bread and
almost the same recipe.

I've heard that the Jews have had a rough time in the past, but nothing
could possible compare to no beer during Passover!


On the other hand, one is *required* to drink 4 glasses of wine at the
seder. The wine used to be horrible, but in recent years there have
been plenty of excellent kosher-for-Passover wines that anyone would be
glad to drink year round. (Children are often given grape juice but
encouraged to try the wine.)


(I've been removing the word "goy" from the subject line because, while
the word can be used affectionately and humorously, in my childhood it
always had a pejorative meaning, and I'm not here to insult anyone.)


--Lia

On Fri, 14 Apr 2006, Julia Altshuler wrote:

Nancy Young wrote:

On another note, in the past day or so I saw in the paper an
article about Passover preparations. One picture was of a woman
in a kosher store covering the products that people were not to
buy for the holiday. I would have thought anything kosher would
do. Perhaps there is a special distinction that is escaping me.


There is. There is one set of laws pertaining to kosher for year round.
There is another set of laws pertaining to kosher-for-Passover. If
you look at products, you can see special symbols that make the
distinction. I never try to get too technical explaining religious
rationale because it is one of those things that make perfect sense if
you're within a religious group and can never make sense if you're
outside it, but it comes down to this:

Actually, it can still sound insane when you're within the religious
group. You can drink wine (which has natural yeast in it), but you can't
eat peanut butter? But you can eat peanuts. And nothing leavend, but
there's no problem with selling kosher for passover pizzas.

I'm reform. I do things my way -- which means keeping to the spirit a
hell of a lot better than Manichevitz does.

Because the rule for Passover is
to eliminate certain grain products completely, homes and places that
produce food must be scrubbed down to make sure that not a crumb of
grain that might have come in contact with water (and thus be "leavened"
according to a religious definition, not a scientific one) is lurking
anywhere on the premises.

more of a "it might leaven". But you're missing the whole "sell off the
stuff that stays in your house" loophole the orthodox invoke...

This is such an important legal point that
religious inspectors have to be brought in to make sure that all the
cleaning is done correctly before a food product can have the special
"kosher-for-Passover" seal.

This is known as "bribing the rabbi" and needs to be done to keep kosher
at all times (granddaughter of a kosher butcher...).

Further, while there are normally 2 sets of dishes and cooking
equipment, one for dairy and one for meat, for Passover there are 2
more, dairy-for-Passover and meat-for-Passover. (This isn't so bizarre
when you consider that many people have "everyday" dishes and "special
holiday" dishes.)

or as we called them, "paper plates for passover"...

lena