Father Ignatius wrote:

For an annual event, surely it is worth phoning the butcher for suet,
as I have just done, and doing it properly? It seems you are
prepared to go to a great deal of trouble -- perhaps to more trouble
than using suet would take? -- to avoid doing so.

I have nothing to offer in the area of substituting butter and so
forth other than to report a sharp hiss of horror at your blasphemous
intent. I conjecture, however, that butter might go rancid, and the
consistency of the pud would be not up to standard.

Suet can go rancid too. Trust me, I know this.

Obaue: I've never seen conjecture used as a verb before. How common is it?
The OED suggests it's obsolete.

On Tue 11 Apr 2006 01:16:50a, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Linz?

Father Ignatius wrote:

For an annual event, surely it is worth phoning the butcher for suet,
as I have just done, and doing it properly? It seems you are prepared
to go to a great deal of trouble -- perhaps to more trouble than using
suet would take? -- to avoid doing so.

I have nothing to offer in the area of substituting butter and so
forth other than to report a sharp hiss of horror at your blasphemous
intent. I conjecture, however, that butter might go rancid, and the
consistency of the pud would be not up to standard.

Suet can go rancid too. Trust me, I know this.

Indeed it can. I had some in the freezer from last year, intending on using
it for mincemeat. It had a very rancid smell when I opened it, but I didn't
taste it.

--
Wayne Boatwright @¿@¬
_____________________

Linz wrote:

Obaue: I've never seen conjecture used as a verb before. How common
is it? The OED suggests it's obsolete.

It's alive and well as far as I'm concerned. I conjecture that the OED
entry is overdue for revision.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org

Please note the changed e-mail and web addresses. The domain
eepjm.newcastle.edu.au no longer exists, and I can no longer
reliably receive mail at my newcastle.edu.au addresses.
The optusnet address still has about 4 months of life left.

On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 22:28:06 -0400, Roberta
wrote:

Al in Dallas wrote:
On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 22:23:07 +0100, "Mike Lyle"
wrote:

Al in Dallas wrote:
On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 19:36:07 +0100, "Mike Lyle"
wrote:
[...]
Grass-feeding, as well as producing better-flavoured and healthier
meat,
Given that I've seen retailers brag that their meat came from corn-fed
cattle and that wild animals taste gamey, I'm not sure that
grass-feeding would produce better-flavoured meat.
Well, a matter of taste, of course, but in my experience it does.
Corn-fed beef is baby food. Ever tasted venison? That's game, and people
love it. There's good gamey, and unfit for consumption gamey!

Most hunters I know process venison into spicey sausage to *hide* its
flavor.


It completely depends on where the venison is from. I grew up in
Michigan - big big deer hunting there. The venison is FANTASTIC! Almost
a sweet flavor. Has to be my favorite thing to eat. Venison steak -
yum yum. I have had venison that was hunted in Georgia - it is tougher
with a more peppery flavor. Not even close to the dame flavor, not
nearly as good.


I guess it's a bit off topic from free range beef *G* It's something I
was unaware of until I took my first bite of Georgia venison ick(guess I
just never gave it much thought)

At least you didn't say it tastes like chicken *G*!

--
Al in St. Lou

Linz wrote:
Father Ignatius wrote:

For an annual event, surely it is worth phoning the butcher for suet,
as I have just done, and doing it properly? It seems you are
prepared to go to a great deal of trouble -- perhaps to more trouble
than using suet would take? -- to avoid doing so.

I have nothing to offer in the area of substituting butter and so
forth other than to report a sharp hiss of horror at your blasphemous
intent. I conjecture, however, that butter might go rancid, and the
consistency of the pud would be not up to standard.

Suet can go rancid too. Trust me, I know this.

Obaue: I've never seen conjecture used as a verb before. How common
is it? The OED suggests it's obsolete.

The NSOED entry marks as obsolete only two usages of the verb, those with
"of" and "at".

Alan Jones

Al in Dallas wrote:
On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 22:23:07 +0100, "Mike Lyle"
wrote:
[...]
is presumably going to become inescapable. We can't go on much longer
feeding grain (and fish, but that's a separate problem) to cattle
when it will be needed to feed people. But upland pastures and other
marginal areas that will never be able to produce grain will
continue to produce the much smaller amounts of meat people are
going to have to get used to eating.

[snip]

Then I'll just point out that Malthus was wrong and that free markets
will keep desired goods available so long as they aren't heavily
distorted by those who use the government to distort them.


Well, I'll just point out that meat is even in our lifetime becoming
steadily more expensive, and there is no real-terms mechanism which can
stop the increase. In Britain, for example, beef is already fairly
severely rationed by price: this very day I bought myself some fillet
steak as a very rare treat because it was marked down to £7.96 a pound
-- my piece weighs just under 7 ounces. The same market forces which
will always ensure a supply of meat for those who can afford it must
also make it scarcer as grains, and grass for that matter, also become
more expensive.

--
Mike.

On 11 Apr 2006 09:55:39 -0700, "Mike Lyle"
wrote:


Al in Dallas wrote:
On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 22:23:07 +0100, "Mike Lyle"
wrote:
[...]
is presumably going to become inescapable. We can't go on much longer
feeding grain (and fish, but that's a separate problem) to cattle
when it will be needed to feed people. But upland pastures and other
marginal areas that will never be able to produce grain will
continue to produce the much smaller amounts of meat people are
going to have to get used to eating.

[snip]

Then I'll just point out that Malthus was wrong and that free markets
will keep desired goods available so long as they aren't heavily
distorted by those who use the government to distort them.


Well, I'll just point out that meat is even in our lifetime becoming
steadily more expensive, and there is no real-terms mechanism which can
stop the increase.

The textbook answer is that other suppliers coming on line should
halt, and maybe reverse, the price increases. If new suppliers aren't
starting up when the prices go up, I'd say it's time to look for those
market distortions I referred to.

In Britain, for example, beef is already fairly
severely rationed by price: this very day I bought myself some fillet
steak as a very rare treat because it was marked down to £7.96 a pound
-- my piece weighs just under 7 ounces. The same market forces which
will always ensure a supply of meat for those who can afford it must
also make it scarcer as grains, and grass for that matter, also become
more expensive.

I know that meat prices seem insane compared to what they were when I
was young. However, that changes significantly when inflation is taken
into account. There should be a UK equivalent to our CPI published
somewhere over there.

--
Al in St. Lou

Mike Lyle wrote:

this very day I bought myself some fillet
steak as a very rare treat because it was marked down to £7.96 a pound
-- my piece weighs just under 7 ounces. The same market forces which
will always ensure a supply of meat for those who can afford it must
also make it scarcer as grains, and grass for that matter, also become
more expensive.

--
Mike.

The Eye fillet I buy here in Brisbane (Australia) retails at around
$38/Kg
And it's worth every cent...IMHO.
But I figure life is too short to eat poor quality steaks (or drink
rubbish wine for that matter)!


LadyJane
--
"Never trust a skinny cook!"

LadyJane wrote:



The Eye fillet I buy here in Brisbane (Australia) retails at around
$38/Kg
And it's worth every cent...IMHO.
But I figure life is too short to eat poor quality steaks (or drink
rubbish wine for that matter)!


Wait a sec.... I have to do some conversions here.... that works out to
about $32 Canadian..... still really expensive compared to what I pay for
beef filet.

Al in Dallas wrote:
On 11 Apr 2006 09:55:39 -0700, "Mike Lyle"
wrote:


Al in Dallas wrote:
On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 22:23:07 +0100, "Mike Lyle"
wrote:
[...]
is presumably going to become inescapable. We can't go on much
longer feeding grain (and fish, but that's a separate problem)
to cattle when it will be needed to feed people. But upland
pastures and other marginal areas that will never be able to
produce grain will continue to produce the much smaller amounts
of meat people are going to have to get used to eating.

[snip]

Then I'll just point out that Malthus was wrong and that free
markets will keep desired goods available so long as they aren't
heavily distorted by those who use the government to distort them.


Well, I'll just point out that meat is even in our lifetime becoming
steadily more expensive, and there is no real-terms mechanism which
can stop the increase.

The textbook answer is that other suppliers coming on line should
halt, and maybe reverse, the price increases. If new suppliers aren't
starting up when the prices go up, I'd say it's time to look for those
market distortions I referred to.

Not if the textbook knows that population (governing demand) is
increasing, while land area (governing supply) is finite.

In Britain, for example, beef is already fairly
severely rationed by price: this very day I bought myself some fillet
steak as a very rare treat because it was marked down to £7.96 a
pound -- my piece weighs just under 7 ounces. The same market forces
which will always ensure a supply of meat for those who can afford
it must also make it scarcer as grains, and grass for that matter,
also become more expensive.

I know that meat prices seem insane compared to what they were when I
was young. However, that changes significantly when inflation is taken
into account. There should be a UK equivalent to our CPI published
somewhere over there.

But it's not all inflation: even if it isn't happening like this already
(and in terms of land values it is), the cost of meat _must_ rise in
real terms in the long run, driven up by increasing production costs.

--
Mike.

Mike Lyle wrote:
Al in Dallas wrote:
On 11 Apr 2006 09:55:39 -0700, "Mike Lyle"
wrote:

Al in Dallas wrote:

Then I'll just point out that Malthus was wrong and that free
markets will keep desired goods available so long as they
aren't heavily distorted by those who use the government to
distort them.

Well, I'll just point out that meat is even in our lifetime
becoming steadily more expensive, and there is no real-terms
mechanism which can stop the increase.

The textbook answer is that other suppliers coming on line should
halt, and maybe reverse, the price increases. If new suppliers
aren't starting up when the prices go up, I'd say it's time to look
for those market distortions I referred to.

Not if the textbook knows that population (governing demand) is
increasing, while land area (governing supply) is finite.

I can understand that land could be a limiting factor in Britain. The
Australian experience is a little different. (And that could be
relevant to you, because Australia is a major meat exporter.) The land
is there, but instead of "other suppliers coming on line" we have
farmers abandoning the land. Their business has become uneconomic,
mostly because of climate change. Another way of looking at it, I
suppose, is that previously useful land is turning into useless land, so
in that sense the supply of available land is shrinking.

Yet another way of looking at it is that the cattle population has grown
faster than the available grass supply. Did someone mention Malthus?

The problem with textbook answers, especially those of the free-market
persuasion, is that they assume an infinite supply of raw materials.

Where Malthus went wrong was that he assumed an equitable distribution
over the population. In particular, he didn't foresee "globalisation",
whereby a privileged class could maintain its comfortable lifestyle at
the expense of the less privileged. The USA, for example, passed its
"Malthusian limit" some time ago. (Not so much in terms of food, as in
other raw materials.) It managed to keep going anyway by using up the
resources of poorer nations. If you want to see Malthusian crises in
action, take a look at those countries that have lost the ability to
pillage their neighbours. There are plenty of examples in north Africa.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org

Please note the changed e-mail and web addresses. The domain
eepjm.newcastle.edu.au no longer exists, and I can no longer
reliably receive mail at my newcastle.edu.au addresses.
The optusnet address still has about 4 months of life left.

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
On Tue 11 Apr 2006 01:16:50a, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Linz?

Suet can go rancid too. Trust me, I know this.

Indeed it can. I had some in the freezer from last year, intending
on using it for mincemeat. It had a very rancid smell when I opened
it, but I didn't taste it.

I didn't notice a smell, made some dumplings to go in some chicken soup, and
we nearly threw up when we tasted them.

On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 09:40:54 +0100, "Linz"
wrote:

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
On Tue 11 Apr 2006 01:16:50a, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Linz?

Suet can go rancid too. Trust me, I know this.

Indeed it can. I had some in the freezer from last year, intending
on using it for mincemeat. It had a very rancid smell when I opened
it, but I didn't taste it.

I didn't notice a smell, made some dumplings to go in some chicken soup, and
we nearly threw up when we tasted them.

It's putting it in the freezer that is the problem, it does something
to fat so that it goes off over a period of months. The same thing
happens to bacon and oily fish. If I put my home made bacon in the
freezer it tastes a bit off after two or three months, but if I hang
it up in the laundry in a muslin it keeps indefinitley.

We've eaten, with great pleasure, two year old Christmas puddings that
have been kept in the cupboard, but they are a bit drier than ones
that have been maturning for only a month.


Mike Page

Kill the monkeys for email

In ,
Mike Page typed:

We've eaten, with great pleasure, two year old Christmas puddings that
have been kept in the cupboard, but they are a bit drier than ones
that have been maturning for only a month.

[sharp hiss of horror] I realise that I don't seem to post any more except
on the theme of "more brandy", but... yagodda top 'em up periodically (two
or tree times a year) with brandy.


--

Nat

Wooster: Jeeves, I'm sure that nothing is further from your mind, but
you know you have a way of saying "Indeed, sir" which gives the
impression that it's only a feudal sense of what is fitting which
prevents you from substituting the words "Says you."

Jeeves: I'm distressed to hear this, sir.