Mike Lyle wrote:

[fats in pudding recipes]

I don't know; but I imagine keeping oxygen out is the main thing.
In the Br Is you can get "vegetable suet" which answers as well as
the animal kind: perhaps that has coconut oil in it. Solid palm
oil?

More leads; thanks again. Santa's coming this year for sure.

They'll probably now tell us these are worse news than animal
fats: I've never got my head round all the trans-fat hydrogenated
etc doctrine, but I believe I've heard bad news about palm oil in
this very newsgroup.

There is an endless and largely unproductive debate on this question
raging in the nutrition newsgroups. I take from it that the
"extra-virgin" variety available in health food stores is at least no
worse for you than animal fat, and is certainly acceptable for an . .
.. infrequent. . . treat.

Since I stopped producing meat animals at
home, I haven't eaten very much flesh. (I had a theory, quite
untested, that grass-fed beef and lamb was like wild game animals
in having better fats than the steamed-up commercial kind.)

Your theory is widely accounted sound. Grass-fed animals, besides
enjoying something a lot more like a life and thus conferring better
karma on those who consume them by preference, have also got a much
higher ratio of omega-3 to omega-6 fatty acids in them. Nothing wrong
with the 6s, in fact they're necessary; but proper balance of the two
is important, and most people get far too much 6 and not enough 3,
from consuming polyunsaturated vegetable oils, which are lousy with 6.

"Al in Dallas" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 16:37:06 GMT, "Lefty" wrote:

" Worse, we have adopted the traditional
practice of slicing leftover pudding and frying it in butter, and we
regret
to inform you that it is very good indeed."



Good old Scrapple. Dense, lots of seasoning. Fried with eggs for breakfast
(some people pour on syrup.) I think it is mostly regional to NJ, PA, esp.
Philadelphia.

As good as scrapple may (or may not) be, it is only found in the
Philadelphia metropolitan area (of New Jersey) and remains unknown in
the NYC metropolitan area. The line seems to fall some place between
Princeton and Chester.

Actually it is (or was, 45 years ago) common in rural Missouri. After all,
you need to use up all the odd scraps of the pig at butchering time. It is,
IMHO, excellent if done well, but awful if not. I've had it in recent years
when travelling in the Pennsylvania Dutch country, but found the
commercial/restaurant product there to be pretty poor.

My great-grandmother's recipie has gone missing...we moved recently...but I
think I'm getting inspired to search again and give it a try.

Bill (once in St. Lou, now in California)
Al in St. Lou

On Sun, 9 Apr 2006 13:29:46 -0400, "CDB" wrote:

It's Christmas pudding I have in mind, and I had
thought I ought to get an early start on it.

You don't have to start quite yet. Traditionally, it's made on
"Stir-up Sunday", which is the last Sunday before Advent, so called
because the Collect for the day, in the old Anglican Book of Common
Prayer, starts "Stir up, we beseech thee, O Lord, the wills of thy
faithful people ..."

Looking at the calendar, I deduce that Stir-up Sunday this year will
be on 26 November.

Don't forget to ensure that each member of the household stirs the
pudding and makes a wish.

--

Katy Jennison

spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @

["Followup-To:" header set to alt.usage.english.]
Father Ignatius wrote:

when travelling in the Pennsylvania Dutch country

ObAue: Dutch -- Deitsch -- Deutsch -- German, I understand from James
Michener.

I'm not sure that's strictly correct (in the sense of it deriving from
"Deutsch" rather than a common ancestor, as you seem to be implying) or
necessary: much as J. J. Lodder might like to deny it, "Dutch" meant
"German as well as Hollandish" in English for yonks. I think it was
common even in the early 20th century for Germans to be called "Dutchmen"
and for German immigrants to be nicknamed "Dutch". In the US, that is.

Heck, maybe all that didn't change till WWI.

--
Salvatore Volatile

In ,
Mike Lyle typed:
CDB wrote:
Mike Lyle wrote:
[...]
Note, of course, that any cake mixture can be steamed as a pudding
instead of baked as a cake. I've never got round to working out a
table of equivalents, but one made with butter or marge takes about
half the time needed for a suet pud. (Christmas pudding's a special
case, of course, as it's cooked twice -- for connoisseurs, the
interval is a year. I imagine this can only be done with suet.)

Ah, thank you. It's Christmas pudding I have in mind, and I had
thought I ought to get an early start on it. "Only with suet"
because that keeps its shape after the first cooking, or because it
is less likely to go rancid in the interval? I'm considering
high-grade coconut oil too; it might stay fresh as well as suet, but
would probably melt and be incorporated during the first boiling.


For an annual event, surely it is worth phoning the butcher for suet, as I
have just done, and doing it properly? It seems you are prepared to go to a
great deal of trouble -- perhaps to more trouble than using suet would
take? -- to avoid doing so.

I have nothing to offer in the area of substituting butter and so forth
other than to report a sharp hiss of horror at your blasphemous intent. I
conjecture, however, that butter might go rancid, and the consistency of the
pud would be not up to standard.

I don't know; but I imagine keeping oxygen out is the main thing. In

La Maman used to achieve this by topping the Christmas cakes and puds up
with brandy, to the point where they floated in the dish. There used, at
any time, to be a row of Christmas puds and cakes on a high shelf in the
pantry. La Maman would periodically climb the step-ladder with brandy
bottle in hand to top them up. She used to make enough to give spares away
as gifts (What to Give The Fambly That Has Everything), and never received a
word's complaint.

I have adopted this practice myself latterly, sans [Hi, Daniel!]
step-ladder, and discover that it makes me a more popular guest than my
conversation.

the Br Is you can get "vegetable suet" which answers as well as the
animal kind: perhaps that has coconut oil in it. Solid palm oil?
They'll probably now tell us these are worse news than animal fats:
I've never got my head round all the trans-fat hydrogenated etc
doctrine, but I believe I've heard bad news about palm oil in this
very newsgroup. Since I stopped producing meat animals at home, I

The problem with animal fats, I believe, is less the fats themselves than
The Sedentary Modern Lifestyle. Weight-lifters eat an astonishing number of
eggs -- I am told that a dozen and a half per day is unexceptional -- and
yet do not develop high cholesterol, because the foodstuff is absorbed and
metabolised and used in some way, rather than being stored on the walls of
the arteries.

Suet puddings and roast mutton are a perfectly healthy diet for a sailor who
spends his life scampering up and down rigging and clewing up this and that
in the face of a gale in the Roaring Forties at two in the morning
(whichever number of bells that is). Or a ploughman who spends the day in
hard, physical labour, and requires a high-energy diet that he digests and
burns.

The prollim arises, in My View, only when the intake of saturated animal
fats over the long term is incommensurate with the activity level of the
continued lifestyle: a Christmas pudding's worth of suet every now and
again, I contend, is not in itself a Bad Thing. And, broadly, you can eat
whatever you damned like, provided -- and here is the catch -- you take
enough exercise.

haven't eaten very much flesh. (I had a theory, quite untested, that
grass-fed beef and lamb was like wild game animals in having better
fats than the steamed-up commercial kind.)

In what sense "better"?

--
Nat

"...a light scattering of snarky pedants, and a great many helpful
people who occasionally descend into jackassery, a couple of saints,
and a few wingnuts." --Matthew Shepherd, on and of alt.usage.english

In ,
CDB typed:
Mike Lyle wrote:

[fats in pudding recipes]

I don't know; but I imagine keeping oxygen out is the main thing.
In the Br Is you can get "vegetable suet" which answers as well as
the animal kind: perhaps that has coconut oil in it. Solid palm
oil?

More leads; thanks again. Santa's coming this year for sure.

[reading it again] Ah -- nothing to do with lead-arsenic poisoning [relaxes
visibly].


--
Nat

"...a light scattering of snarky pedants, and a great many helpful
people who occasionally descend into jackassery, a couple of saints,
and a few wingnuts." --Matthew Shepherd, on and of alt.usage.english

In ,
Bill Beeman typed:
"Al in Dallas" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 16:37:06 GMT, "Lefty"
wrote:

As good as scrapple may (or may not) be, it is only found in the
Philadelphia metropolitan area (of New Jersey) and remains unknown in
the NYC metropolitan area. The line seems to fall some place between
Princeton and Chester.

Actually it is (or was, 45 years ago) common in rural Missouri. After all,
you need to use up all the odd scraps of the pig at
butchering time.

I'm wondering what these we I was powerfully affected by reading Anthony
Bourdain on butchering a pig in Portugal: he reported that less than eight
ounces was "waste".

when travelling in the Pennsylvania Dutch country

ObAue: Dutch -- Deitsch -- Deutsch -- German, I understand from James
Michener.


--
Nat

"...a light scattering of snarky pedants, and a great many helpful
people who occasionally descend into jackassery, a couple of saints,
and a few wingnuts." --Matthew Shepherd, on and of alt.usage.english

In ,
Denny Wheeler typed:
On Sat, 8 Apr 2006 18:06:53 +0200, "Father Ignatius"
wrote:

ABOUT PUDDINGS

TMI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

waves Hi, Denny! Just be grateful that it wasn't the sacred subject of
Breakfast that seized my Muse.


--
Nat

"...a light scattering of snarky pedants, and a great many helpful
people who occasionally descend into jackassery, a couple of saints,
and a few wingnuts." --Matthew Shepherd, on and of alt.usage.english

Wood Avens wrote:
On Sun, 9 Apr 2006 13:29:46 -0400, "CDB"
wrote:

It's Christmas pudding I have in mind, and I had
thought I ought to get an early start on it.

You don't have to start quite yet. Traditionally, it's made on
"Stir-up Sunday", which is the last Sunday before Advent, so called
because the Collect for the day, in the old Anglican Book of Common
Prayer, starts "Stir up, we beseech thee, O Lord, the wills of thy
faithful people ..."

Looking at the calendar, I deduce that Stir-up Sunday this year will
be on 26 November.

Oh, good. This is unexplored territory and I am going to need to
think about my approach.

Don't forget to ensure that each member of the household stirs the
pudding and makes a wish.

Those that are within reach before Advent shall be summoned to the
task.

CDB wrote:
Wood Avens wrote:
On Sun, 9 Apr 2006 13:29:46 -0400, "CDB"
wrote:

It's Christmas pudding I have in mind, and I had
thought I ought to get an early start on it.

You don't have to start quite yet. Traditionally, it's made on
"Stir-up Sunday", which is the last Sunday before Advent, so called
because the Collect for the day, in the old Anglican Book of Common
Prayer, starts "Stir up, we beseech thee, O Lord, the wills of thy
faithful people ..."

Looking at the calendar, I deduce that Stir-up Sunday this year will
be on 26 November.

Oh, good. This is unexplored territory and I am going to need to
think about my approach.

Don't forget to ensure that each member of the household stirs the
pudding and makes a wish.

Those that are within reach before Advent shall be summoned to the
task.

But that will be the pudding for 2007, of course.

Alan Jones

Father Ignatius wrote:
Mike Lyle typed

[pudding unsueted for human consumption]

For an annual event, surely it is worth phoning the butcher for
suet, as I have just done, and doing it properly? It seems you are
prepared to go to a great deal of trouble -- perhaps to more
trouble than using suet would take? -- to avoid doing so.

Hobson's choice. About a decade ago, I found out too much about how
they get meat nowadays. Nothing like watermelon.

http://www.art.com/asp/sp.asp?PD=117...word=11747933# /

http://tinyurl.com/qrvau

I have nothing to offer in the area of substituting butter and so
forth other than to report a sharp hiss of horror at your
blasphemous intent. I conjecture, however, that butter might go
rancid, and the consistency of the pud would be not up to standard.

I'm not happy about dairy products either. "In every glass of milk, a
slice of veal", and I stopped eating veal directly about forty years
ago. But I'm still hooked.

I don't know; but I imagine keeping oxygen out is the main thing.
In

La Maman used to achieve this by topping the Christmas cakes and
puds up with brandy, to the point where they floated in the dish.
There used, at any time, to be a row of Christmas puds and cakes on
a high shelf in the pantry. La Maman would periodically climb the
step-ladder with brandy bottle in hand to top them up. She used to
make enough to give spares away as gifts (What to Give The Fambly
That Has Everything), and never received a word's complaint.

A woman of taste and discrimination. That, I can do.

[...]

The problem with animal fats, I believe, is less the fats
themselves than The Sedentary Modern Lifestyle. Weight-lifters eat
an astonishing number of eggs -- I am told that a dozen and a half
per day is unexceptional -- and yet do not develop high
cholesterol, because the foodstuff is absorbed and metabolised and
used in some way, rather than being stored on the walls of the
arteries.

Even the Heart Association has now admitted that it's the *oxidized*
cholesterol that does you in. The stuff is actually good for your
health and prospects, especially as you get older, as long as you can
keep it from going rancid, both outside and inside the body.

The prollim arises, in My View, only when the intake of saturated
animal fats over the long term is incommensurate with the activity
level of the continued lifestyle: a Christmas pudding's worth of
suet every now and again, I contend, is not in itself a Bad Thing.
And, broadly, you can eat whatever you damned like, provided -- and
here is the catch -- you take enough exercise.

In my somewhat arthritic condition, this catch approaches vigintidual
proportions. The damned horizontal stationary bike is almost the only
option left, and I often think (while pedalling) that a small
infarction would at least relieve the boredom. Come, friendly
thrombus.

"Al in Dallas" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 16:37:06 GMT, "Lefty" wrote:

" Worse, we have adopted the traditional
practice of slicing leftover pudding and frying it in butter, and we
regret
to inform you that it is very good indeed."



Good old Scrapple. Dense, lots of seasoning. Fried with eggs for
breakfast
(some people pour on syrup.) I think it is mostly regional to NJ, PA,
esp.
Philadelphia.

As good as scrapple may (or may not) be, it is only found in the
Philadelphia metropolitan area (of New Jersey) and remains unknown in
the NYC metropolitan area. The line seems to fall some place between
Princeton and Chester.

--
Al in St. Lou

I am from Princeton originally. Grew up on scrapple.
--
Lefty

Life is for learning
The worst I ever had was wonderful

Good old Scrapple. Dense, lots of seasoning. Fried with eggs for
breakfast
(some people pour on syrup.) I think it is mostly regional to NJ, PA,
esp.
Philadelphia.

As good as scrapple may (or may not) be, it is only found in the
Philadelphia metropolitan area (of New Jersey) and remains unknown in
the NYC metropolitan area. The line seems to fall some place between
Princeton and Chester.

--
Al in St. Lou

Oddly enough I've seen scrapple sold in the Houston area. Never tasted it
though. Believe it was near the Taylor pork roll in the grocery store.

Chris in Pearland, TX

There has to be a transplanted NJ/PA influence in there , esp. with Pork
Roll along with the scrapple. They probably have TastyKakes and Entenman's
too.

I know a lot of NJ people went to Houston in the "80s with the Sun Belt
Boom. Several of my friends are there --wouldn't put it past them to coerce
a shop into supplying that stuff.
--
Lefty

Life is for learning
The worst I ever had was wonderful

On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 12:56:52 +0200, "Father Ignatius"
wrote:
haven't eaten very much flesh. (I had a theory, quite untested, that
grass-fed beef and lamb was like wild game animals in having better
fats than the steamed-up commercial kind.)

In what sense "better"?

I remember reading recently that the fats found in wild game like deer
are quite different from those found in the meat of grain-fed ranch
animals. The author identified the animals' diets as the cause. The
picture he left me with was that animals that run around and eat a
natural diet are healthier for us to eat than animals that are
sedentary and fed cultivated grain.

--
Al in St. Lou

On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 13:12:33 +0200, "Father Ignatius"
wrote:

In ,
Bill Beeman typed:
"Al in Dallas" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 16:37:06 GMT, "Lefty"
wrote:

As good as scrapple may (or may not) be, it is only found in the
Philadelphia metropolitan area (of New Jersey) and remains unknown in
the NYC metropolitan area. The line seems to fall some place between
Princeton and Chester.

Actually it is (or was, 45 years ago) common in rural Missouri. After all,
you need to use up all the odd scraps of the pig at
butchering time.

I'm wondering what these we I was powerfully affected by reading Anthony
Bourdain on butchering a pig in Portugal: he reported that less than eight
ounces was "waste".

And I remember reading or hearing that the slaughterhouse only sold
the pigs' skulls to the pet-food manufacturer. The implication was
that everything else was processed into something for human
consumption, including the making of sausages and other things that
contain meat by-products.

[snip]

--
Al in St. Lou