"Doug Kanter" wrote:
You're right - JOC has a few line drawings, but nothing very detailed.
You'd hate "In Nonna's Kitchen" if you need pictures to cook. But, you'd
love the tastes. Buy it.

Be aware that JOC has been around for a long, long time... since the 1930s.
When different people talk about JOC, they can be talking about different
editions of the book. I originally got a 1970s paperback edition that was
given to me by my sister. I really did want to get a hardcover version
because I used it so much. In the 1990s there was a major rewrite to make it
more "current". I purposely went out and bought the 1970s hardcover version
so as not to lose the "obsolete" content I treasured in my 1970s paperback.
The 1990s rewrite was a fairly major change.

Going in the other direction, I did look at a reprint of the original
edition from the 1930s, but didn't buy it. It was interesting more from a
historical standpoint, but compared to later editions was very thin and had
very little in it.

The line drawings in JOC are (were?) great. You can learn all kinds of
things, like how to skin a squirrel! I'm pretty sure this squirrel drawing
was removed from the newer addition.

But if you want to know how to skin a rabbit, the greatest resource I know
for that is the movie "Roger & Me". If you've seen the movie, you'd
immediately know what I'm talking about.

--
( #wff_ng_7# at #verizon# period #net# )

Dee Randall wrote:

I learned my lesson with tree rats the first year I lived here. They're
cute but Gawd. I saw one snatch a sandwich off the neighbors patio table
and run up a light post. Steven is a softie. He still puts out (I think
it's called) seed corn cobs for them. I no longer feed them from the
house. They are thieves

Michael


Yes, they ate thru my plastic garbage cans, destroying them, and eating my
collected walnuts. From then on, they could have them off the ground. This
way, they aerate the earth, but try as they may, they cannot get at the bird
food anymore. We finally outsmarted them. They are like rats to me -- not
cute.

Dee, I have a couple of squirrel proof bird feeders. One has a larger
mesh around an inner core that holds the seeds. The other is a hopper
style with an adjustable rest that causes the hopper to close if a
squirrel or larger bird gets on it. Both are quite effective. DH
doesn't want them put out because of the rodent problem here.

The other day we were driving down the driveway, when all of a sudden one
who had been running away from our car, all of a sudden did a flip-flop
upside down and ran to the driveway and underneath our car, but escaped
death -- ran immediately up a tree and furtively looked at us. Wonder where
the word, squirrely, comes from.

Now if that squirrel could talk you were likely being cussed out LOL.
Dee Dee

Doug Kanter wrote:
"Julia Altshuler" wrote in message

You bring up an interesting point. If I see someone reading on a bus or
at a restaurant, I get curious about the book and will try to manouever to
a place where I can see the cover without making it obvious. I get
curious about artwork in public places, store displays, ad copy, changes
in manners, turns of phrase, all sorts of things but not strangers' weight
and groceries. I guess there is a bit of the busybody in me.


--Lia



Not busybody. Smart and observant. If you ran for president, I'd vote for
you.


Gee, um, uh, thanks, I think. Considering what I've thought of all
recent presidential candidates (nominees and winners), I'm not sure I'm
complimented:-)


--Lia

"wff_ng_7" wrote in message
news:5bTTf.7799$vy.4307@trnddc01...
"Doug Kanter" wrote:
You're right - JOC has a few line drawings, but nothing very detailed.
You'd hate "In Nonna's Kitchen" if you need pictures to cook. But, you'd
love the tastes. Buy it.

Be aware that JOC has been around for a long, long time... since the
1930s. When different people talk about JOC, they can be talking about
different editions of the book. I originally got a 1970s paperback edition
that was given to me by my sister. I really did want to get a hardcover
version because I used it so much. In the 1990s there was a major rewrite
to make it more "current". I purposely went out and bought the 1970s
hardcover version so as not to lose the "obsolete" content I treasured in
my 1970s paperback. The 1990s rewrite was a fairly major change.

Yes, but sections which describe things like different cuts of beef are
equally useful. If only I'd read it before I ruined my first so-called "pot
roast"...

"~patches~" wrote

Dee, I have a couple of squirrel proof bird feeders. One has a larger
mesh around an inner core that holds the seeds. The other is a hopper
style with an adjustable rest that causes the hopper to close if a
squirrel or larger bird gets on it.

I had a squirrel manage to grab the hanger with its hind feet
and hang down and get the seed without putting any weight
on the rest. Little brat.

My best luck has been with the diversionary feeder, plus
just tossing out peanuts for them, not too many though, just
enough they disappear in a little while.

Dee Dee said:

The other day we were driving down the driveway, when all of a sudden one
who had been running away from our car, all of a sudden did a flip-flop
upside down and ran to the driveway and underneath our car, but escaped
death -- ran immediately up a tree and furtively looked at us. Wonder
where the word, squirrely, comes from.

Ever see that Geico commercial? The squirrels cause an accident
and they're all giggling and high fiving each other, good one!

nancy

On 2006-03-21, Michael "Dog3" Lonergan wrote:

Our tree rats are also carnivorous. They eat almost anything. They are
evolving. I think they will take over the world.

Only if you allow it:

http://www.straightshooters.com/aira...410clasic.html
http://f4bscale.worldonline.co.uk/hunting.htm

nb

wff_ng_7 wrote:

This past Sunday morning I heard this most interesting hammering noise. I'm
sure most people wouldn't give it a second thought. But I recognized it for
what it was: the distinctive sound of a woodpecker. I stopped to try and
find it, but was unsuccessful. On one prior occassion I did spot one. Quite
interesting to find in downtown Washington, DC. If you're not looking, you
miss an awful lot of stuff.


Good memories. Many years ago and in another city, I was awakened by
the most awful jackhammering sound. It would stop for a moment, and I'd
go back to sleep only to be awakened a short while later. Given the
early hour and the neighborhood, I could only conclude, through my
sleepy fog, that someone had started construction early and should be
shot. I finally awakened enough to look out the window. I could see
nothing in the neighboring parking lot that would indicate workmen with
hardhats and protective ear gear tearing up the concrete. (My tiny
apartment was surrounded by about 5' of greenery, including a
sorry-looking tree, followed by a chain link fence and the dumpster and
parking lot of the larger apartment complex next door.)


It took me a moment to look up, and there was the culprit: A woodpecker
excavating a perfect circular hole in the tree. That was funny enough,
but when I looked down, I could see wood shavings below. It didn't take
long before watching the tree was the best entertainment I could ask
for. (Ah, for those halcyon days before I allowed television back into
my life.) (There was no camera in my life then either, or I'd have
pictures.) In time, a family of jays (some sort, don't remember, maybe
even sparrows) evicted woodpecker and took up residence in the prime
real estate spot.


--Lia

"Julia Altshuler" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"Julia Altshuler" wrote in message

You bring up an interesting point. If I see someone reading on a bus or
at a restaurant, I get curious about the book and will try to manouever
to a place where I can see the cover without making it obvious. I get
curious about artwork in public places, store displays, ad copy, changes
in manners, turns of phrase, all sorts of things but not strangers'
weight and groceries. I guess there is a bit of the busybody in me.


--Lia



Not busybody. Smart and observant. If you ran for president, I'd vote for
you.


Gee, um, uh, thanks, I think. Considering what I've thought of all recent
presidential candidates (nominees and winners), I'm not sure I'm
complimented:-)


--Lia


Well, that's the point. We've had a few who didn't seem to notice much. The
current one once admitted to "not reading much". Oh boy....

In article ,
The Bubbo wrote:

Bob Terwilliger wrote:
Heather wrote:

if I was going to make stuff up it wouldn't be about a guy and his
milk purchase, it would be about moon people and meatloaf and hovering
javelinas.

Let's hear that meatloaf fiction.

Bob



With amazing self control she put the fork down on the plate, "what do you
mean 'surprise'? what are you talking about?"
"That's not steak you're eating my most precious darling."
"don't you 'most precious darling' me you weiner patrol! What the hell have
you put on my plate. Don't play me, little man, I've had about all I can take
of your games."
The dog trotted in and they both shot him 'the look', he made fast tracks.
"Okay...okay..chill little princess, it's not a steak so much as a loaf...of
meat...made from ...."
She stood up, trembling, wondering if she's pull his heart out through his
throat or just feed him to the javelinas. "Spit it out! What is it made of??"
"Those...moon people...the ones that showed up the other night. They didn't
leave as unexpectedly as I led you to believe...they grind up so nice"


and later, she learned, so did he.

Sorry, it's lame but the best I could come up with on the fly.

Heh! It's better than a very bizarre dream I had one night a few years
ago... It was so bad, I've not forgotten it.
--
Peace, Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

Doug Kanter wrote:

"Goomba38" wrote in message
. ..
Doug Kanter wrote:

Like any societal change, this one requires 2-3 generations (or more) to
change. My teenage son has other things on his mind, like talking on the
phone all day while functioning as a heavy weight to keep the sofa from
flying out the window. During his occasional moments of partial
awareness, I rag on him about how he might want to spend some time with
me in the kitchen so he learns, and doesn't starve to death when he's
living on his own. What would sons have been told in the 1950s? Maybe
nothing? Would there have been the unspoken expection that as soon as
they were done with college, a woman would magically appear to cook for
them? I don't recall what I absorbed when I was 8 years old. What I *do*
know is that in college, there were plenty of guys whose entire
relationship with women involved having someone to do their laundry.

My son has discovered cooking... for girls! Besides that cooking is
another activity that he and a bunch of his frat brothers have been
doing..probably because it saves money for more drinking and debauchery?
sigh
LOL

Hey...whatever works. What little my son does, he does because he's found
that for maybe 95% of the food we eat, you can make it better at home.

Oddly enough, I learned the very basics of cooking from my mother (who
wasn't a very good cook, better baker) when I was perhaps 8-10. I found
I enjoyed it and started reading cookbooks and watching the (then fairly
new) cooking programs on PBS. I rapidly surpassed my mothers cooking
ability and soon was doing a good 75% of the cooking.

My mother has since improved her cooking skills, oddly enough around the
time I moved out, and has been known to call me for advice on a culinary
project from time to time. I never had an opportunity to take any home
ec. type classes in school either.

Things were similar with my father (he was a semi-machinist / setup guy
at a local firearm manufacturer) where I got some exposure to the basics
of machining and auto work, but then proceeded on my own to read and
investigate all I could and learn more. Once again the school system
failed me as I never had the opportunity to take shop class either.

In both cases it wasn't so much a case of my parents teaching me how to
do something, but more exposing me to it and providing some level of
support when I showed interest in it.

Today I have a reasonably well equipped kitchen (including Hobart mixer)
and do a fair amount of cooking. I also have a fairly well equipped shop
(including Bridgeport mill) and do a fair amount of machining projects.
My career path oddly enough involves little of either.

Pete C.

In article ,
The Bubbo wrote:

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
In article ,
The Bubbo wrote:

The last neighborhood grocery store was in the burbs and the most annoying
thing was the very slow moving old people (I know, I'm sorry, but I
sometimes
get impatient when I know what I want but they can't figure out the
difference
between ketchup and cocktail onions). Now I shop at the semi-ghetto grocery
store and the people are WAY more fascinating, a better mix of people and
not
just bland suburbia. I love people, I think they're fascinating, hell
sheldon
is more fascinating than irritating because he's so weird.

lol

One of the more fun places to people watch (besides bars) is the zoo...

nice!
also the dog park! All manner of people at the dog park and you all have your
dogs in common, you meet some interesting people. I always likened it to
parents at their kids' school since you mostly end up talking about your dogs
anyway.

grins As long as the dogs behave...
Sometimes you can meet interesting people walking dogs early in the
mornings. I'm fixin' to start an early morning walking program again
(when I get home from work), maybe I'll have some more stories to tell
like one morning when I went, and there was this older dude in his
boxers.......


I live just a couple blocks from 2 lakes (nokomis and hiawatha for those in
minneapolis) and you see all kinds of people doing their thing there.

People watching can be a lot of fun!
--
Peace, Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

In article laKTf.8781$gD4.2711@trnddc05,
"wff_ng_7" wrote:

"~patches~" wrote:
Squirrels are funny! I toss out peanuts to the blue jays so one Christmas
I got the idea to put out the leftover Christmas nuts. DH was not amused
cleaning them out of the downspout We live on the water now so have a
problem feeding wildlife although I still toss our peanuts to the blue
jays each morning. I have one fat blue jay that follows me around when
I'm outside, bold as anything! DH said no bird feeders as we've had a
rodent problem and we do have a lot of other wildlife.

We learned our lesson about feeding squirrels many years ago. You can
actually get them to take the peanut out of your hand. They get very
friendly. In fact, way too friendly. Eventually they would sit on the
railing on our front steps waiting for a handout. The last straw with my
mother was when she wanted to go out shopping one day, and there was a
squirrel spread eagled on the screen door. She couldn't get out. No more
feeding the squirrels after that episode!

lol Hummingbirds can be nearly as bad...

Mom used to keep 3 one liter feeders hanging from the awning when we
lived in California. We'd count up to 40 birds around those three
feeders at any one time during the summer. They'd have babies in the 3
big oak trees near the awning.

When the feeders got empty, they would hover in front of the windows
begging. :-)

Cute!

The hardest thing was taking the feeders down in the late fall so they
little buggers would migrate when they were supposed to.
--
Peace, Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

In article ,
notbob wrote:

On 2006-03-21, Michael "Dog3" Lonergan wrote:

Our tree rats are also carnivorous. They eat almost anything. They are
evolving. I think they will take over the world.

Only if you allow it:

http://www.straightshooters.com/aira...410clasic.html
http://f4bscale.worldonline.co.uk/hunting.htm

nb

lol

They are good eating...
--
Peace, Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

wff_ng_7 wrote:

"~patches~" wrote:
wff_ng_7 wrote:
- Long commutes. Some people insist on having the "perfect" house and
then drive hours a day getting to and from work. That time could be spent
on other activities, cooking being but one of them. At some point one has
to say what good is the perfect house if you are never there.

I was guilty of this when I was getting my education. My daily commute
totaled 3 hours in good weather. The reason behind this is we decided
commuting was a better choice than moving our kids to a city. So for 10
years, I did that daily. Yet my kids ate home cooked meals every day and
they were healthy meals. DH and I made sure of that. DH is a good cook
in his own right and our kids all learned to cook. During that time, I
also did all my own home preserving - canning, freezing, drying - and I
still do.

I know the problem well because I also used to do it. For about 11 years, I
was driving between 36 and 42 miles each way to and from work. That was in
the 1980s. I thought the traffic was bad then, but little did I know how bad
it would eventually get. It would be pure insanity to try and drive those
same routes today. But plenty of people still regularly do it, so I guess
there is a lot of insanity going around! ;-)

It doesn't matter how short the commute is if you can't stand to live in
an area.


I think a lot of the problem is people looking for bigger houses and yards.
My house at 1,500 square feet is actually slightly above the average for
when it was built (1963). But today, it is well below the average (I believe
it is around 2,200 square feet now). Funny thing is as families have gotten
smaller, the houses have gotten bigger.

The critical part here is the yards. There are far too many 4,000+ sq.
ft. micro mansions squashed into tiny postage stamp lots that provide
absolutely no play area for children. When I was looking for a house the
requirement was an absolute minimum of two acres, you can easily add on
to a small house, it is far more expensive and difficult to add on to a
small lot.


In reality, there is tons of available, underutilized land close in to most
major American cities in the northeast. There is so much in fact that you
really couldn't build on it quickly without depressing the market. Here in
the Washington area, there was a large rail yard just outside downtown,
adjacent to National Airport. When it became available over a decade ago,
the thought was there was no way to make use of it immediately because of
its size of hundreds of acres. The building on it will take decades. As a
temporary measure, part of it was leased for the building of a large strip
shopping center with a life of something like 20-30 years. By that time they
figured they could tear it down and put more appropriate development (for
the center of a major metropolis) there.

There are also large tracts of land within DC itself that were essentially
ignored for decades. Within walking distance of my house (which is 8 blocks
from the Capitol), there are such things as a metal scrap yard, a huge
abandoned office building right on the river, and an abandoned power plant.
This land was only "discovered" when the city decided to build a new
baseball stadium in the midst of this stuff.

You wouldn't be building big detached houses on big lots on these sites, but
there sure is a lot of room for townhouses and apartments, amongst other
things.


The big problem is that nearly all development in recent decades has
centered around micro mansions and apartments, i.e. pseudo high end and
very low end. There has not been nearly enough development of decent
mid-range neighborhoods with 2+ acre lots and 1,500-2,000 sq. ft.
houses.

Pete C.

Orlando Enrique Fiol wrote:

wrote:
Lidia: Young people. They're busy working, they're bombarded with ethnic
cuisines and they try to do it all. They should focus on a single one --
like Italian. They should just get in there and do it.

Does anyone else think Americans are bombarded with ethnic cuisines? I
know I grew up primarily with Dominican, Puerto Rican, Cuban and Italian
foods, although my family liked foods from other cultures and my mother
often learned to cook foods about which I'd inquired or in which I'd
expressed some interest.

Orlando

Perhaps that's part of the problem, the potential average new cook is
overwhelmed with the wide array of cuisine's that are seen today and
they can't seem to find a direction to start learning.

Pete C.