aem wrote:

Donald Martinich wrote:

Cooking 101: Add 1 Cup of Simplicity
As Kitchen Skills Dwindle, Recipes Become Easy as Pie

[snip the article]

This article tries too hard to make something out of nothing. It's
hardly worth responding to except to correct the record. A few main
points:

* More complete directions in cookbooks doesn't mean today's readers
are dumber, it means today's writers are smarter. James Beard and
Julia Child demonstrated 40 and 50 years ago that careful directions
are more valuable than "add 2 eggs" or "bake until done."

Honest to goodness, I came across a website with some pretty good
recipes. All the baked recipes started with *Check the oven for any pot
or pans, once cleared, turn oven to...* I know I bookmarked it in one
of the browsers so I'll post the link when I find it. Really though,
careful directions are better than vague ones.


* That more wives work outside the home doesn't mean jack as to
whether kids will learn about food and cooking at home. It may mean
there are more opportunities for the kids to learn from Dad as well as
Mom.

* That food companies get more ignorant and weird questions from
customers than ever before means they now have e-mail. If Fanny Farmer
had e-mail she'd have got just as many dumb questions.

Email is just so easy and most times you get fast responses. If in
doubt, why not ask?


* We're not talking rocket science here. Absolutely nothing is in
danger of being lost. Food and cooking are still interesting and those
who want to become proficient and to enjoy improving their skills and
knowledge have more resources available to do so than ever before.
-aem

"Doug Kanter" wrote:
Like any societal change, this one requires 2-3 generations (or more) to
change. My teenage son has other things on his mind, like talking on the
phone all day while functioning as a heavy weight to keep the sofa from
flying out the window. During his occasional moments of partial awareness,
I rag on him about how he might want to spend some time with me in the
kitchen so he learns, and doesn't starve to death when he's living on his
own. What would sons have been told in the 1950s? Maybe nothing? Would
there have been the unspoken expection that as soon as they were done with
college, a woman would magically appear to cook for them? I don't recall
what I absorbed when I was 8 years old. What I *do* know is that in
college, there were plenty of guys whose entire relationship with women
involved having someone to do their laundry.

Maybe the sons were taught nothing by the fathers in the 1950s. But my
father taught us (1960s) how to work on the car, how to do plumbing and
electrical work around the house, and a lot of similar stuff. In fact, my
father bought an old 1948 Chevy that we restored specifically to teach us,
and we built a house so we could learn the trades a bit better than just
with the normal projects around the house. My mother taught us how to cook,
do laundry, iron, sew, and the financial stuff like budgeting and balancing
a check book. None of us were exempt, though some resisted more than others.
We were well prepared when we went out into the world.

One of my father's requirements for driving a car was knowing how to change
a tire. It was interesting with my sister and my father's 1971 Mercury
Monterey. My sister did learn the whole procedure, but she couldn't
physically lift the huge tire and balance it on the wheel studs. She could
just manage to get the tire up there, but couldn't get the studs to line up
with the holes in the wheel. So her girlfriend, a much huskier type, picked
the tire up for her and got it on the studs first try. It was kind of funny.

--
( #wff_ng_7# at #verizon# period #net# )

"Goro" wrote in message
ups.com...

jmcquown wrote:
Donald Martinich wrote:
Cooking 101: Add 1 Cup of Simplicity
As Kitchen Skills Dwindle, Recipes Become Easy as Pie

Unfortunately, PIE isn't easy.

By Candy Sagon
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, March 18, 2006; A01

At Kraft Foods, recipes never include words like "dredge" and "saut."

Would that be "saute"?

I believe that "saut" (or is it "saute"?) is the 2nd personal informal
tense of the verb "sauter". I'm not sure that it's ever used that way
in cooking, though it is used that way in ballet (more commonly 2nd
personal formal "sautez").

Using "saut" probably made the writer feel all cool & stuff, though. :-)

"~patches~" wrote in message
...

Honest to goodness, I came across a website with some pretty good recipes.
All the baked recipes started with *Check the oven for any pot or pans,
once cleared, turn oven to...* I know I bookmarked it in one of the
browsers so I'll post the link when I find it. Really though, careful
directions are better than vague ones.


I have a recipe for cardamom cake. I use twice as much cardamom as the
original recipe called for, so when I share the recipe, I make it clear that
1 measure is what the original recipe said, and 2 measures is what I use -
"start with one and double it if you like the taste and make the cake
again". Gave it to a friend who made like this decision was a major life
crisis. We were on the phone for 20 minutes about THIS ONE THING.
"Well....what should I do???? Do you think I'll like it with 2 measures???"

sigh.....

"Doug Kanter" wrote:
"Goro" wrote in message
ups.com...

jmcquown wrote:
Donald Martinich wrote:
Cooking 101: Add 1 Cup of Simplicity
As Kitchen Skills Dwindle, Recipes Become Easy as Pie

Unfortunately, PIE isn't easy.

By Candy Sagon
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, March 18, 2006; A01

At Kraft Foods, recipes never include words like "dredge" and "saut."

Would that be "saute"?

I believe that "saut" (or is it "saute"?) is the 2nd personal informal
tense of the verb "sauter". I'm not sure that it's ever used that way
in cooking, though it is used that way in ballet (more commonly 2nd
personal formal "sautez").

Using "saut" probably made the writer feel all cool & stuff, though. :-)

I wondered about that word "saut" since I didn't remember seeing it in the
physical newspaper when I read the article. The writer used the word
"saute", but with the acute or accent mark on the final "e". When the
original poster copied the article over, the "é" didn't transfer correctly.
It is in both the physical newspaper and the online version (as "sauté").

--
( #wff_ng_7# at #verizon# period #net# )

~patches~ wrote:


You'd be surprised at how many women have educations, have careers, and
have kids yet still find the time to cook. If anything the cooking
skills have increased in this segment of the population. Educated
people in general tend to be more health conscious. Educated people
with careers tend to have more money so can buy more exotic ingredients
if they choose without the worry of breaking the bank. There are stats
on educated vs uneducated that indicate both of theses comments. I'll
try to find the link.

Thank you. That's me.

I'm on a medical leave right now, but I teach full time, take
professional development courses or graduate classes part time, and
raise my daughter the old fashioned way - as in, after school snack,
gets help if necessary to finish homework, then has time to play
outside (lately it's to run the new puppy around, good expercise for
both of them!), and maybe a few school-night chores. Notice that TV and
comuter do not make that list. Spare time she likes to read or play
with her stuffed animals and Barbies.

But by 6:30, Mom's headed for the kitchen. Some nights, the kiddo wants
to come help. Many nights, she stops by to see what's cooking and find
out if there's gonna be a fresh dessert. =) And grab a few nibbles off
the cutting board.

In an hour, I can make a fantastic meal, easily. If we're short on
time, I can pull of stir-fry or pasta or broiled fish in half an hour
no problem. Nights where we have committments I set up the crockpot
before leaving for work. Maybe one night a week we end up with carry
out, if I'm just too tired to cook and need to come home to put the
feet up and collapse.

Menus depend on the budget. When our pockets are full, I play around
with fun recipes and cool ingredients, exptoc sauces, and so on. When
money's tight, we eat bean burritoes that I actually make - gasp - I
roll the beans and cheese and onions into those tortillas all by
myself!! Or beans and rice, or simple pasta. I can pull off a cheap
meal for under $10. So time and poverty don'[t work as excuses for me.

I do agree that not everyone WANTS to come home and head straight for
the kitchen, though.Its kind of nice that one of people's daily
'chores' happens to be one of the hobbies that brings me pleasure.

The Bubbo wrote:

I'm an observer, I watch people. I watch people's shopping habits, I watch
people at restaurants, I watch how people drie and how they negotiate the
skyways and how they bag my produce at the farmer's market. I pay attention
and I notice things. The guy behind me bought 2 half gallons of 2 percent milk
and 1 half gallon of chocolate milk. He paid with cash.

You mean to say you moved through the check-out and then waited around
to watch the person *behind* you check out and even waited long enough
to see how they paid... sheesh, you don't have a life... or you simply
just made this up... for a self-proclaimed observer you're not nearly
so observant as those reading your post. Anyone reading your post can
clearly observe that you are lying. WTF do you need to constantly make
stuff up just so you have something to post... every one of your posts
I've read is a fabrication... you're very ill.

Sheldon

wff_ng_7 wrote:

"~patches~" wrote:

You'd be surprised at how many women have educations, have careers, and
have kids yet still find the time to cook.


I think a lot of it has to do with time management and priorities. Here are
a few factors that I think lead to the "lack of time" perception:

- The siren call of technology. People think things like microwaving frozen
dinners is saving a lot of time, but often it is not. For a family of four,
in the time it takes to sequentially microwave four dinners, one "real"
dinner serving four could have been prepared.

Our microwave is a glorified breadbox most days but I do know what you
are saying.


- Programming every minute of the children's time. In driving children
around to all these activities, it doesn't leave much for cooking and
eating. Plus the different schedules of multiple children's activities can
make it impossible to have everyone home at the same time. There's something
to be said for giving a child some of their own unprogrammed time to do
things and interact with others in an unstructured way.

Exactly. Our kids were into a lot of activities. One year was
particularly bad that way so we sat them down and told each to choose 2
activities they really wanted to be involved in. I think they get just
as tired of overscheduling of their time as their parents do.


- Long commutes. Some people insist on having the "perfect" house and then
drive hours a day getting to and from work. That time could be spent on
other activities, cooking being but one of them. At some point one has to
say what good is the perfect house if you are never there.

I was guilty of this when I was getting my education. My daily commute
totaled 3 hours in good weather. The reason behind this is we decided
commuting was a better choice than moving our kids to a city. So for 10
years, I did that daily. Yet my kids ate home cooked meals every day
and they were healthy meals. DH and I made sure of that. DH is a good
cook in his own right and our kids all learned to cook. During that
time, I also did all my own home preserving - canning, freezing, drying
- and I still do.

Of course, if you don't know what you are doing cooking, and don't have the
interest, even an infinite amount of time isn't going to help.

That's so true.


I think a lot of those older cookbooks, such as "Joy of Cooking" and
"Mastering the Art of French Cooking" put a lot of emphasis on methods and
less on recipes than a lot of current cookbooks. The thought was if you knew
the methods, you could come up with your own recipes fairly easily. But it
seems as people these days clamor for recipes even if they have no idea how
to cook. They are not interested in methods, they want instant
gratification. You see that here on rfc quite often. I know sometimes I'll
post an idea (general methods and ingredients without amounts), and almost
instantly there's the "recipe please" requests. I can't respond, because for
the most part I don't use recipes.

There was a very short article in the Washington Post last week interviewing
Lidia Matticchio Bastianich, that gave some advice that I think is very
good, kind of like the Nike "Just Do It" ads:

Washington Post: You had the benefit of cooking with family in the kitchen.
What advice do you have for people who are learning on their own?

Lidia: Don't become a slave to the recipe. Follow it the first time, yes.
But after that, don't worry so much about the measuring. Really.

Washington Post: Easy for you to say.

Lidia: Young people. They're busy working, they're bombarded with ethnic
cuisines and they try to do it all. They should focus on a single one --
like Italian. They should just get in there and do it.

(Full article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...r=emailarticle)

The Bubbo wrote:

~patches~ wrote:


What I find odd is how anyone could stand in line, anaylze someone
else's purchases, then feel self righteous because their food choices
were somehow better. I figure it is none of my business what others
buy. I hate standing in line anyway so I have a lot of ebooks on my
PDA. Once in line, I pull out my PDA and amuse myself. The good thing
is because of my shopping habbits this doesn't happen often.


I finally got bored with my PDA a couple years ago so i don't really carry it
with me anymore.

I'm an observer, I watch people. I watch people's shopping habits, I watch
people at restaurants, I watch how people drie and how they negotiate the
skyways and how they bag my produce at the farmer's market. I pay attention
and I notice things. The guy behind me bought 2 half gallons of 2 percent milk
and 1 half gallon of chocolate milk. He paid with cash.

I'm not a people person outside my family and circle of friends. Quite
frankly I don't like people all that much when I'm shopping. They
either get too close to me or do obnoxious things so I tend to totally
tune them out. The person in line in front of me could be holding up
the cashier and I likely wouldn't see a thing!

The guy behind him was buying chips, soda and his girfriend talked on the
phone and grabbed impulse gum. I did nt see how they paid, I was gone by then.

I always check out other carts, what could be more interesting than watching
the eating habits of other people? it's like a lesson in anthropology. I think
that honestly that may have been one of the reasons I stopped using the PDA,
it ended up being an expensive gameboy for me, I mean how often do i need to
whip out my grandmother's address when I'm at the hairdresser? It just became
a green beeping distraction.

My PDA is always in my purse and I do use it daily from anything from
daily planning, contacts, shopping lists, gift details, appointments,
and entertainment. Just as my home computers games have almost no role
on my PDA. It's so much easier carrying around a lot of ebooks than an
actual book and no one can see what you're reading so you don't get
those nosey comments that interfer with your train of thought.

Though I do sometimes miss playing Drug Wars during my layovers.

wff_ng_7 wrote:

"Julia Altshuler" wrote:

~patches~ wrote:


What I find odd is how anyone could stand in line, anaylze someone else's
purchases, then feel self righteous because their food choices were
somehow better. I figure it is none of my business what others buy. I
hate standing in line anyway so I have a lot of ebooks on my PDA. Once
in line, I pull out my PDA and amuse myself. The good thing is because
of my shopping habits this doesn't happen often.


I was wondering if anyone else would comment on this. I don't even see
what's in other people's shopping carts. Why on earth would I care if I
did notice? And if I did notice, how could I know what the people were
doing with the groceries? A fat woman might be buying the junk food as
part of getting supplies for an office party. It could be part of her
job. (I don't speculate on people's sex lives either.)


As for what to do in line, the PDA is the wrong way to go. If you do
that, you'll miss the chance to read (but not buy) Archie comics and The
Weekly World News.


I guess I don't look at whats's IN other people's shopping carts, but I most
certainly do look at what's on the conveyor belt in front of and behind my
order. I'm not sure if it is self righteousness as much as it is just
curiosity. I do wonder about the single male with a big stack of frozen
dinners. And I'm pretty sure it's not for an office party, etc. I do wonder
about those who don't use the store's club card (week after week, so they're
not making a one time visit to the store). Even with no conscious planning,
they could be saving a fair amount of money. I might see something a person
has on the counter I'm not aware of and it might give me some ideas. Since I
buy slightly odd produce at times, often the cashier asks what it is, and
sometimes how to use it. I don't mind explaining what one might do with it.
And I don't mind if other customers behind me in line overhear the
conversation.

None of this is my business and as long as they check out in a speedy
manner I could care less. I figure they should know what they are doing.


I'm an observer of life, and I want to see what's going on around me. I
don't have to be entertained with electronic gadgets. You can learn a lot by

It not like the PDA is entertaining me more that it puts up a wall that
says I don't want to have anything to do with you, leave me alone, do
your business and let me do mine. I'm not a people person outside my
family and circle of friends. I hate it when people get into my
personal space or ask nosey questions that are none of their business.
The PDA allows me to avoid interaction with such clowns until I can
check out and get out of there. OTOH, I really enjoy shopping farmer's
markets and U-pick. I have no problem interacting with other people there.

being aware of your surroundings and what's going on. Maybe I'm a busybody,
I don't know. A couple of years ago I had a neighbor who might have appeared
to be a nice single mom with two small kids. But if one was more observant,
one would see a drug addict/alcoholic with two small kids who rarely went to
school and who got into various types of mischievousness due to lack of
supervision. I'm not sure if she was technically a prostitute, but she got
various "favors" in exchange for sexual services. I remember one "regular"
who came around in his fancy car saying to his friend "the bitch stood me
up", when he didn't get what he came for that day. She drove her kids around
in her unregistered, uninsured, uninspected car, without a drivers license.
One day when she went out on a drug buy at 4 AM, the police spotted her,
arrested and booked her, and impounded the car. She was eventually evicted
for nonpayment of rent. That last part, the eviction, is probably all a lot
of the neighbors knew about the situation. If someone had intervened, in
some way, I think she and her kids could have been helped. I know I pondered
for a long time calling the truancy people at the school system about the
kids, but never got to it before she was evicted. I'm pretty sure it's just
going to be another cycle of inner city kids that repeats.

These types of suspicions should have been reported if only for the sake
of the kids. Re-read what you wrote. There are a number of agencies
you could have anonymously reported to that could have done something.

"~patches~" wrote:
It not like the PDA is entertaining me more that it puts up a wall that
says I don't want to have anything to do with you, leave me alone, do your
business and let me do mine.

I know what you mean to a certain extent. I know at times in my life I've
felt the same way. Generally I don't interfere with other people's business
in those situations, I just observe and keep my mouth shut, and try not to
make any facial expressions that would show my opinion that way.

But I do find a lot of what goes on in crowd and street life situations very
entertaining. My one brother is just discovering this aspect of life where
he recently moved. He found that once he got out of his car, there was a
whole other world out there that he didn't see before. Like riding public
transportation. Not only do they get you to your destination for a cheap
$1.25, they also provide a free show. He thinks it is very entertaining
watching, though his wife was not amused at all. I was with him riding a
couple of weeks ago, and boy did we get a show on our return trip.

A group of white suburban teenagers got on, going to a concert downtown in
one of America's true hell holes (which I will not name so as to not offend
anyone). Though the temperature was in 30s, none of them were wearing a
coat... that wouldn't be cool. What if the train breaks down or doesn't
arrive on time at the station, but whatever. At the same time they got on,
so did a black guy in his 20s that happened to be drunk. He thought he'd
have some fun with these kids. He started off by offering them various
drugs, just in jest I am sure. Then he started to cut up a blonde girl who
was dressed like a harlot (though not significantly more so that some of the
others). He made all kinds of comments about her, how he was going to make
her a star, how sexy she looked, etc. A lot of it was pretty degrading if
taken too seriously. At a subsequent stop, some more of these teenagers got
on, including a redhead made up even worse than the blonde. He then cut her
up for a while. But then, being equal opportunity, he started on one of the
guys. He returned to the drug theme again, and warned the kid about what he
was going to experience once he got caught. He said the black dudes in
prison are just going to love pounding his tight little white boy ass. After
this went on for a little while longer, an elderly black woman yells at him
to shut up. As the train came to our stop to get off, we don't know if the
show continued.

These types of suspicions should have been reported if only for the sake
of the kids. Re-read what you wrote. There are a number of agencies you
could have anonymously reported to that could have done something.

Actually, some of the things I did report both anonymously and not. On the
car, I tried twice with the police and once with the condo site manager. The
first occassion with the police, they wouldn't do anything because the car
was parked on private property. The fact that the car was a 1986 Buick and
the plate was registered to a 1993 Mitsubishi didn't seem to faze them.
Normally when they see this they will confiscate the plate. But on this
Buick, it wasn't held on with screws, but dropped into a slot when you
opened the trunk. So they would have to break into the trunk to confiscate
it. I suggested they deface the plate with a magic marker, so it would be
obvious if seen on the road. No, that would be destroying government
property, can't do that. One day while walking past the police station, I
saw her drive past, and went inside to again request that they track down
this car. I provided them with make, model, body style, color, tag number,
address... and they still couldn't be bothered. She drove for an additional
four months before she was caught. The night she was caught, she left the
kids "home alone", another frequent occurance. I thought of calling many
times on that too, but was never sure how long she would be away compared to
how long it would take for the police to respond. I was worried about the
kids getting into something and burning the house down, among other things.
One day they brought fireworks home from some friend, and lit them off
INSIDE the house. Luckily the mother was home that time, and she went beserk
when they did it. I'm sure it scared the hell out of her, as is scared me
even in the next house.

I don't know if Washington, DC is different than other large cities, but I
suspect not. It is very hard to get various city agencies involved in a
problem unless some kind of disaster strikes. Then when it does strike, they
act as if "who would have known that was going to happen?".

--
( #wff_ng_7# at #verizon# period #net# )

No.

The great mass of people is not the font of art. It is the market for
art.

Whether a random person on the subway can explain "folding" is
irrelevant to the continued knowledge of the process, as there are more
schools every day capable of teaching anyone interested how to perform
it correctly (and probably better than the average biscuit-baking
granny ever could).

As long as it's written down, it's not being "lost".

--Blair

"~patches~" wrote:
wff_ng_7 wrote:
- Long commutes. Some people insist on having the "perfect" house and
then drive hours a day getting to and from work. That time could be spent
on other activities, cooking being but one of them. At some point one has
to say what good is the perfect house if you are never there.

I was guilty of this when I was getting my education. My daily commute
totaled 3 hours in good weather. The reason behind this is we decided
commuting was a better choice than moving our kids to a city. So for 10
years, I did that daily. Yet my kids ate home cooked meals every day and
they were healthy meals. DH and I made sure of that. DH is a good cook
in his own right and our kids all learned to cook. During that time, I
also did all my own home preserving - canning, freezing, drying - and I
still do.

I know the problem well because I also used to do it. For about 11 years, I
was driving between 36 and 42 miles each way to and from work. That was in
the 1980s. I thought the traffic was bad then, but little did I know how bad
it would eventually get. It would be pure insanity to try and drive those
same routes today. But plenty of people still regularly do it, so I guess
there is a lot of insanity going around! ;-)

I think a lot of the problem is people looking for bigger houses and yards.
My house at 1,500 square feet is actually slightly above the average for
when it was built (1963). But today, it is well below the average (I believe
it is around 2,200 square feet now). Funny thing is as families have gotten
smaller, the houses have gotten bigger.

In reality, there is tons of available, underutilized land close in to most
major American cities in the northeast. There is so much in fact that you
really couldn't build on it quickly without depressing the market. Here in
the Washington area, there was a large rail yard just outside downtown,
adjacent to National Airport. When it became available over a decade ago,
the thought was there was no way to make use of it immediately because of
its size of hundreds of acres. The building on it will take decades. As a
temporary measure, part of it was leased for the building of a large strip
shopping center with a life of something like 20-30 years. By that time they
figured they could tear it down and put more appropriate development (for
the center of a major metropolis) there.

There are also large tracts of land within DC itself that were essentially
ignored for decades. Within walking distance of my house (which is 8 blocks
from the Capitol), there are such things as a metal scrap yard, a huge
abandoned office building right on the river, and an abandoned power plant.
This land was only "discovered" when the city decided to build a new
baseball stadium in the midst of this stuff.

You wouldn't be building big detached houses on big lots on these sites, but
there sure is a lot of room for townhouses and apartments, amongst other
things.

--
( #wff_ng_7# at #verizon# period #net# )

Doug Kanter wrote:

There's a fabulous cookbook that's been around forever. It explains
all the terms described in the Washington Post article. Mention it
here, and a handful of insipid little ****s will belittle the book
because it never was, and still is not trendy. But, it takes the place
of an important thing in cooking: the passing down of knowledge from
one generation to another. I'm not sure why this continuum of
knowledge has been interrupted, but I suspect it's related to
two-income households. There was a time when kids came home from
school and found someone cooking. And, not just cooking, but doing it
slowly and deliberately, in a way which might catch the attention of
little kids. (Forget teenagers). This type of thing was gone for a
couple of decades. It still is, in many households.
Doug, what is the name of the book?

Michael

"Joy of Cooking". Now, get ready for the insipid ****s to arrive with
comments. Two of them are regulars here.

I LOVE JoC!! That was one of my wedding presents many years ago. I used
to sit and read it like one would a novel, lol.
Goomba (who wonders if she qualifies as a ****??)

Doug Kanter wrote:

Like any societal change, this one requires 2-3 generations (or more) to
change. My teenage son has other things on his mind, like talking on the
phone all day while functioning as a heavy weight to keep the sofa from
flying out the window. During his occasional moments of partial awareness, I
rag on him about how he might want to spend some time with me in the kitchen
so he learns, and doesn't starve to death when he's living on his own. What
would sons have been told in the 1950s? Maybe nothing? Would there have been
the unspoken expection that as soon as they were done with college, a woman
would magically appear to cook for them? I don't recall what I absorbed when
I was 8 years old. What I *do* know is that in college, there were plenty of
guys whose entire relationship with women involved having someone to do
their laundry.

My son has discovered cooking... for girls! Besides that cooking is
another activity that he and a bunch of his frat brothers have been
doing..probably because it saves money for more drinking and debauchery?
sigh
LOL