In article >,
"Dee Randall" > wrote:

> > I just buy my sour cream in those little 8 oz. containers. I never have
> > to deal with spoilage that way and heavy cream freezes just fine as does
> > milk and buttermilk. If you use only small amounts of them like I do,
> > that might be a best bet.
> >
> > I only get small containers of cottage cheese as well for the same
> > reason. Ricotta cheese also freezes just fine.
> > --
> > Peace, Om.
>
> Thanks, Om -- I never have thought to freeze sour cream or buttermilk. DH
> buys large milk, but it is always spoiled before he drinks it all, so we
> hardly buy it anymore, but we do buy cream, sour cream, buttermilk and
> ricotta cheese. But I do buy them at Costco in larger quantities mainly
> because they are handy and I usually use 2/3 of the containers, which I
> justify by the fact that 2/3 of it costs at Costco the same as total price
> somewhere else -- did I make my point -- I'm not sure. But freezer space is
> not always available -- but I think I could start thinking along these lines
> and I wouldn't be so jacked about trying to get these products used.

If you are going to shop at costco and buy in bulk, get a bigger
freezer. <G>

>
> I was reading today in Baker's Illustrated, I believe it was, that when it
> calls for ricotta cheese and it suggests to put it through a
> strainer/cheesecloth -- Yikes, I think Wayne or another poster suggested I
> do this and it took me forever -- it said putting it in the fp does the same
> thing as straining it; if one is using a fp for the rest of the recipe seems
> like a real timesaver to me. I'm going to try it the next time I use
> ricotta and it tells me to strain it. I'd rather wash the fp, pushing it
> thru the strainer is very hard on my arm.

Whatever works.
There are different grades of ricotta.
Get the dryer and you won't have to strain it.

>
> On another group I learned a tip that I like when freezing liquids in glass
> jars -- I had been advised not to do that by someone here on rfc because of
> glass slivers -- but the person said they had never had a jar breaking --
> but at any rate, to use an old sock over your jar. I guess that helps to sop
> up any leakage caused by breakage.

Whatever works! <G>

>
> Thanks for the tips, Om.
> Dee Dee

Cheers! :-)

And I have no idea if storing SC upside down slows spoilage.
I was just tossing around theories as to why, if it does, it may work.
The only way to prove for sure is a controlled experiment. If I can find
the proper containers, I might give it a whirl just for kicks and grins.
I have the 'frige space!


>
>
>
>
--
Peace, Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

> If you are going to shop at costco and buy in bulk, get a bigger
> freezer. <G>

Nope, I'm at my limit!
We had to take the frozen foods to ice chests and put them in the truck
overnight (2 nights actually) while the electrician was here. When I put it
all back in orderly fashion, guess what? I had at least another 1/3 extra
space.
Dee Dee

Nancy1 wrote:
> Bob (this one) wrote:
>
>>Nancy1 wrote:
>>
>>Nonsense. Cottage cheese will last weeks in a normal container. In my
>>restaurants we dated every container when received and when opened.
>>Cottage cheese stored under refrigeration typically lasted at least two
>>weeks without molding or developing off-smells.
>
> It may be nonsense at your restaurant, but at my house, no matter what
> brand, no matter how fresh, if cottage cheese is stored upright after
> opening, it will not last more than a week. It doesn't get moldy, it
> just spoils and smells/tastes bad.

I just spotted this looking for grades of ricotta from another post...

"Care in the Home

"The following storage times are guidelines for maintaining the quality
of cheese in the refrigerator after purchase:

"Soft unripened cheeses: cottage -- 10-30 days; creamed and neufchatel
-- opened 2 weeks; ricotta -- 5 days."
<http://www.ams.usda.gov/howtobuy/cheese.htm>

You might take a look at the temperature your fridge is actually working
at.

Pastorio

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:

> "Dee Randall" > wrote:
>
>>I was reading today in Baker's Illustrated, I believe it was, that when it
>>calls for ricotta cheese and it suggests to put it through a
>>strainer/cheesecloth -- Yikes, I think Wayne or another poster suggested I
>>do this and it took me forever -- it said putting it in the fp does the same
>>thing as straining it; if one is using a fp for the rest of the recipe seems
>>like a real timesaver to me. I'm going to try it the next time I use
>>ricotta and it tells me to strain it. I'd rather wash the fp, pushing it
>>thru the strainer is very hard on my arm.
>
>
> Whatever works.
> There are different grades of ricotta.
> Get the dryer and you won't have to strain it.

I've never seen that thing about grades of ricotta. Where does it say
that? How can you tell which is drier?

Here's a very cool page about cheeses.
<http://www.ams.usda.gov/howtobuy/cheese.htm>

Pastorio

In article >,
"Dee Randall" > wrote:

> > If you are going to shop at costco and buy in bulk, get a bigger
> > freezer. <G>
>
> Nope, I'm at my limit!
> We had to take the frozen foods to ice chests and put them in the truck
> overnight (2 nights actually) while the electrician was here. When I put it
> all back in orderly fashion, guess what? I had at least another 1/3 extra
> space.
> Dee Dee
>
>

<lol> Been there, done that........ ;-D
--
Peace, Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

I buy Mozzarella for pizza, Asiago and Parmigiano for grating and eating,
and Fontina for eating, in 5 pound bricks.
After I cut a piece of cheese I leave in the original wrapping cover the end
in Saran and put the whole piece in
a plastic bag. I also put a paper napkin soaked in an ounce of wine vinegar
into the bag.
the vinegar will not let the cheese get moldy and it will not affect the
taste of the cheese.
and keep the cheese in the refrigerator. I am still cutting on a piece of
Asiago that I started about 18 months ago.
I learned this from my mom many years ago in Italy where we had no
refrigeration.
We never have any moldy cheese ( like they show on the Food Saver
informercial )

"OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Dee Randall" > wrote:
>
>> > I just buy my sour cream in those little 8 oz. containers. I never have
>> > to deal with spoilage that way and heavy cream freezes just fine as
>> > does
>> > milk and buttermilk. If you use only small amounts of them like I do,
>> > that might be a best bet.
>> >
>> > I only get small containers of cottage cheese as well for the same
>> > reason. Ricotta cheese also freezes just fine.
>> > --
>> > Peace, Om.
>>
>> Thanks, Om -- I never have thought to freeze sour cream or buttermilk.
>> DH
>> buys large milk, but it is always spoiled before he drinks it all, so we
>> hardly buy it anymore, but we do buy cream, sour cream, buttermilk and
>> ricotta cheese. But I do buy them at Costco in larger quantities mainly
>> because they are handy and I usually use 2/3 of the containers, which I
>> justify by the fact that 2/3 of it costs at Costco the same as total
>> price
>> somewhere else -- did I make my point -- I'm not sure. But freezer space
>> is
>> not always available -- but I think I could start thinking along these
>> lines
>> and I wouldn't be so jacked about trying to get these products used.
>
> If you are going to shop at costco and buy in bulk, get a bigger
> freezer. <G>
>
>>
>> I was reading today in Baker's Illustrated, I believe it was, that when
>> it
>> calls for ricotta cheese and it suggests to put it through a
>> strainer/cheesecloth -- Yikes, I think Wayne or another poster suggested
>> I
>> do this and it took me forever -- it said putting it in the fp does the
>> same
>> thing as straining it; if one is using a fp for the rest of the recipe
>> seems
>> like a real timesaver to me. I'm going to try it the next time I use
>> ricotta and it tells me to strain it. I'd rather wash the fp, pushing it
>> thru the strainer is very hard on my arm.
>
> Whatever works.
> There are different grades of ricotta.
> Get the dryer and you won't have to strain it.
>
>>
>> On another group I learned a tip that I like when freezing liquids in
>> glass
>> jars -- I had been advised not to do that by someone here on rfc because
>> of
>> glass slivers -- but the person said they had never had a jar breaking --
>> but at any rate, to use an old sock over your jar. I guess that helps to
>> sop
>> up any leakage caused by breakage.
>
> Whatever works! <G>
>
>>
>> Thanks for the tips, Om.
>> Dee Dee
>
> Cheers! :-)
>
> And I have no idea if storing SC upside down slows spoilage.
> I was just tossing around theories as to why, if it does, it may work.
> The only way to prove for sure is a controlled experiment. If I can find
> the proper containers, I might give it a whirl just for kicks and grins.
> I have the 'frige space!
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> --
> Peace, Om.
>
> "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack
> Nicholson

"SERGIO" > wrote in message
...
>
> I buy Mozzarella for pizza, Asiago and Parmigiano for grating and eating,
> and Fontina for eating, in 5 pound bricks.
> After I cut a piece of cheese I leave in the original wrapping cover the
> end in Saran and put the whole piece in
> a plastic bag. I also put a paper napkin soaked in an ounce of wine
> vinegar into the bag.
> the vinegar will not let the cheese get moldy and it will not affect the
> taste of the cheese.
> and keep the cheese in the refrigerator. I am still cutting on a piece of
> Asiago that I started about 18 months ago.
> I learned this from my mom many years ago in Italy where we had no
> refrigeration.
> We never have any moldy cheese ( like they show on the Food Saver
> informercial )

Sergio, I recently bought a Foodsaver. It really does save cheese, but I
did find that twice I saved some pretty expensive cheese and the cheese had
ripened to an unacceptable level! I don't know what I was saving this
cheese for -- certainly not the garbage or field mice.

Sergio, years ago, I bought a wonderful, heavy cheese jar, maybe a
half-gallon size, and the bottom inside had built into it sort of a glass
trivet to hold the cheese up above the vinegar one was supposed to fill the
bottom underneath the cheese. It was a wonderful invention I thought. But,
alas it didn't work for me. Where I lived in California the weather was
never too hot nor too cold, so I don't think it was the weather. This was
in the 70's and 80's and I remember I was into buying some pretty fancy
cheeses that I wanted to keep. This cheese shop was at Larkspur Landing,
the ferry landing that went daily to San Francisco; it came very close by to
San Quentin, close enough to wave!

Back to point! I wonder if they still sell these cheese jars. Also today I
was reading one of my Italian cookbooks by Bugialli. He showed a picture of
a sieve (setaccio) that I wonder if are even sold anymore.
Dee Dee

Oh I forgot to mention that once awhile I wipe the face of the cut cheese
with the paper with the vinegar, and seal the face with the saran wrap. No
Air = No Mold

I also dothis with the Sopressata and Capocollo
Sergio


"Dee Randall" > wrote in message
...
>
> "SERGIO" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> I buy Mozzarella for pizza, Asiago and Parmigiano for grating and eating,
>> and Fontina for eating, in 5 pound bricks.
>> After I cut a piece of cheese I leave in the original wrapping cover the
>> end in Saran and put the whole piece in
>> a plastic bag. I also put a paper napkin soaked in an ounce of wine
>> vinegar into the bag.
>> the vinegar will not let the cheese get moldy and it will not affect the
>> taste of the cheese.
>> and keep the cheese in the refrigerator. I am still cutting on a piece of
>> Asiago that I started about 18 months ago.
>> I learned this from my mom many years ago in Italy where we had no
>> refrigeration.
>> We never have any moldy cheese ( like they show on the Food Saver
>> informercial )
>
> Sergio, I recently bought a Foodsaver. It really does save cheese, but I
> did find that twice I saved some pretty expensive cheese and the cheese
> had ripened to an unacceptable level! I don't know what I was saving this
> cheese for -- certainly not the garbage or field mice.
>
> Sergio, years ago, I bought a wonderful, heavy cheese jar, maybe a
> half-gallon size, and the bottom inside had built into it sort of a glass
> trivet to hold the cheese up above the vinegar one was supposed to fill
> the bottom underneath the cheese. It was a wonderful invention I thought.
> But, alas it didn't work for me. Where I lived in California the weather
> was never too hot nor too cold, so I don't think it was the weather. This
> was in the 70's and 80's and I remember I was into buying some pretty
> fancy cheeses that I wanted to keep. This cheese shop was at Larkspur
> Landing, the ferry landing that went daily to San Francisco; it came very
> close by to San Quentin, close enough to wave!
>
> Back to point! I wonder if they still sell these cheese jars. Also today
> I was reading one of my Italian cookbooks by Bugialli. He showed a
> picture of a sieve (setaccio) that I wonder if are even sold anymore.
> Dee Dee
>
>

In article >,
"Bob (this one)" > wrote:

> OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>
> > "Dee Randall" > wrote:
> >
> >>I was reading today in Baker's Illustrated, I believe it was, that when it
> >>calls for ricotta cheese and it suggests to put it through a
> >>strainer/cheesecloth -- Yikes, I think Wayne or another poster suggested I
> >>do this and it took me forever -- it said putting it in the fp does the
> >>same
> >>thing as straining it; if one is using a fp for the rest of the recipe
> >>seems
> >>like a real timesaver to me. I'm going to try it the next time I use
> >>ricotta and it tells me to strain it. I'd rather wash the fp, pushing it
> >>thru the strainer is very hard on my arm.
> >
> >
> > Whatever works.
> > There are different grades of ricotta.
> > Get the dryer and you won't have to strain it.
>
> I've never seen that thing about grades of ricotta. Where does it say
> that? How can you tell which is drier?

Brain cramp, sorry.
Was thinking about dry vs. wet curd cottage cheese...
I'd been awake far too long. ;-)

Mom would sometimes substitute dry curd cottage cheese in recipes that
called for ricotta.

>
> Here's a very cool page about cheeses.
> <http://www.ams.usda.gov/howtobuy/cheese.htm>

Cool link, thanks!

>
> Pastorio
--
Peace, Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

Bob (this one) wrote:

Nothing beats first-hand experience, Bob. My refrigerator is new and
was tested when it was installed. I can't help what the guidelines say
or what you say; all I can say is when I did a comparison (for my dad's
benefit), upside-down storage made the cottage cheese last a LOT longer
than if I stored it right-side up (3 weeks compared with 1 week or so.)

If it doesn't work for you, fine, don't do it.

It does work for me. I don't understand why you continue to argue when
I've already proven it to myself. You can say what you want about
official guidelines and your own experience, but IT IS NOT MY
EXPERIENCE. That's all.

N.

On Thu 23 Mar 2006 09:22:36a, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it
OmManiPadmeOmelet?

> In article >,
> "Bob (this one)" > wrote:
>
>> OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>>
>> > "Dee Randall" > wrote:
>> >
>> >>I was reading today in Baker's Illustrated, I believe it was, that
>> >>when it calls for ricotta cheese and it suggests to put it through a
>> >>strainer/cheesecloth -- Yikes, I think Wayne or another poster
>> >>suggested I do this and it took me forever -- it said putting it in
>> >>the fp does the same thing as straining it; if one is using a fp for
>> >>the rest of the recipe seems like a real timesaver to me. I'm going
>> >>to try it the next time I use ricotta and it tells me to strain it.
>> >>I'd rather wash the fp, pushing it thru the strainer is very hard on
>> >>my arm.
>> >
>> >
>> > Whatever works.
>> > There are different grades of ricotta.
>> > Get the dryer and you won't have to strain it.
>>
>> I've never seen that thing about grades of ricotta. Where does it say
>> that? How can you tell which is drier?
>
> Brain cramp, sorry.
> Was thinking about dry vs. wet curd cottage cheese...
> I'd been awake far too long. ;-)

I haven't seen dry curd cottage cheese in the stores for years. Wish I
could find some because it makes a great cheesecake.

> Mom would sometimes substitute dry curd cottage cheese in recipes that
> called for ricotta.

I've used it that way, too. I always strain ricotta.

--
Wayne Boatwright o¿o
____________________

BIOYA

Nancy1 wrote:
>
> Nothing beats first-hand experience, Bob. My refrigerator is new and
> was tested when it was installed. I can't help what the guidelines say
> or what you say; all I can say is when I did a comparison (for my dad's
> benefit), upside-down storage made the cottage cheese last a LOT longer
> than if I stored it right-side up (3 weeks compared with 1 week or so.)
>
> If it doesn't work for you, fine, don't do it.
>
> It does work for me. I don't understand why you continue to argue when
> I've already proven it to myself. You can say what you want about
> official guidelines and your own experience, but IT IS NOT MY
> EXPERIENCE. That's all.
>
> N.
>


I wonder if what's going on is that mold spores are trapped at the top
of the carton because they stick to the surface of the sour cream. When
you turn the carton upside down, the air moves up to the bottom of the
carton. The mold spores are deprived of oxygen. Aerobic bacteria that
could cause spoilage at the bottom of the carton (now that they have an
air pocket) are inhibited by the acid and any active lactobacillus
cultures in the sour cream.

So it has nothing to do with the quality of the lid's seal, it is a
function of separating most of the oxygen supply from most of the fungus
spores.

Best regards,
Bob

In article 9>,
Wayne Boatwright <wayneboatwright_at_gmail.com> wrote:

> >> I've never seen that thing about grades of ricotta. Where does it say
> >> that? How can you tell which is drier?
> >
> > Brain cramp, sorry.
> > Was thinking about dry vs. wet curd cottage cheese...
> > I'd been awake far too long. ;-)
>
> I haven't seen dry curd cottage cheese in the stores for years. Wish I
> could find some because it makes a great cheesecake.

Central Market, Austin...

>
> > Mom would sometimes substitute dry curd cottage cheese in recipes that
> > called for ricotta.
>
> I've used it that way, too. I always strain ricotta.

Yeah. It's not that much trouble if you plan ahead.

>
> --
> Wayne Boatwright o¿o
--
Peace, Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

aem wrote:
> Nancy1 wrote:
>
>>Nothing beats first-hand experience, Bob. [snip]
>>
>>If it doesn't work for you, fine, don't do it.
>>
>>It does work for me. I don't understand why you continue to argue ...[snip]
>
> Of course you understand why. You're just too polite to say it. :-)

I'm sorry if I hurt your widdle feelings to the point where you have to
take these little shots.

Oh, wait. No I'm not.

Pastorio

Bob (this one) wrote:
> aem wrote:
> > Nancy1 wrote:
> >
> >>Nothing beats first-hand experience, Bob. [snip]
> >>
> >>If it doesn't work for you, fine, don't do it.
> >>
> >>It does work for me. I don't understand why you continue to argue ...[snip]
> >
> > Of course you understand why. You're just too polite to say it. :-)
>
> I'm sorry if I hurt your widdle feelings to the point where you have to
> take these little shots.
>
> Oh, wait. No I'm not.
>
> Pastorio

You didn't hurt my feelings - WTF are you on, anyway? or maybe off?
And in previous posts, I didn't take any little shots - I said, fine,
you don't need to store things upside down; I find it useful, so what's
the point in carrying on with this?

N.

zxcvbob wrote:

> Nancy1 wrote:
>
>> Nothing beats first-hand experience, Bob. My refrigerator is new and
>> was tested when it was installed. I can't help what the guidelines say
>> or what you say; all I can say is when I did a comparison (for my dad's
>> benefit), upside-down storage made the cottage cheese last a LOT longer
>> than if I stored it right-side up (3 weeks compared with 1 week or so.)

Right. Industry guidelines say it will last up to a month, but it spoils
in a week in your fridge. Ok...

How could you tell if the bottom of that container of cottage cheese had
mold growing in it? Turning it back right side up means that any moldy
or green-pink stuff would be at the bottom, buried under the top stuff.
Stirring it to see would just mix it into the rest of the cottage cheese
and make it invisible.

>> If it doesn't work for you, fine, don't do it.
>>
>> It does work for me. I don't understand why you continue to argue when
>> I've already proven it to myself. You can say what you want about
>> official guidelines and your own experience,

Above you say, "Nothing beats first-hand experience, Bob."

> but IT IS NOT MY EXPERIENCE. That's all.

Well, I'm afraid I don't believe that this inversion matters. So far,
it's been a very small bit of anecdotal comment and a lot of
speculation, but nothing substantive to document it. Lots of food
science and industry experience to contradict it. My "first-hand
experience" as well.

> I wonder if what's going on is that mold spores are trapped at the top
> of the carton because they stick to the surface of the sour cream. When
> you turn the carton upside down, the air moves up to the bottom of the
> carton. The mold spores are deprived of oxygen. Aerobic bacteria that
> could cause spoilage at the bottom of the carton (now that they have an
> air pocket) are inhibited by the acid and any active lactobacillus
> cultures in the sour cream.

Turning the container over creates turbulence, mixing; part of top goes
to bottom. Air pocket at top of upright container has to go to the
bottom. Takes critters and fungi with it. For as long as yogurt has been
around - and kefir, koumiss, sour cream, cottage cheese and other
fermented milks - no culture stores any of it in upside down containers.
Nobody else does it, including the folks who essentially invented those
things and can't afford to waste any of it.

Containers unopened, handled and refrigerated - everything done properly
- will spoil. That plastic sheet that sits down flush with the top of
the cottage cheese should keep out air, but it will spoil anyway. The
ingredients for spoilage are already in there. It'll spoil no matter
what. And it'll spoil in your fridge - right side up - in something
between about a week and a half and a month, depending on many factors
not least how close to sell-by date when purchased.

"Fresh cheeses such as cottage cheese may be subject to spoilage by
gram-negative psychrotrophic bacteria (Pseudomonas, Flavobacterium,
Alcaligenes), coliforms, yeast, and molds that enter as
post-pasteurization contaminants."
<http://www.bcnlabs.com/tests/products/dairy_products.htm>

But I have to go back to a central question: If it works, why do the
manufacturers not know it. Why doesn't the FDA know about it? The
European Union that's all atwitter about food storage and sanitation?
Why don't industry groups know about it? Why not anaerobic packaging
like squeeze tubes if aerobic/anaerobic is an issue?

It's not like they aren't constantly searching for ways to improve shelf
life. They already package some of it with a modified atmosphere to slow
spoilage:
"Cultured products present new window of opportunity
"In the past, cultured products such as cottage cheese and yoghurt were
not packaged in modified atmospheres. This is changing, however, to meet
market demands for longer shelf-lives. CO2 extends the shelf-life of
cottage cheese by one week, for example."
<http://tinyurl.com/qlqvs> which leads to...
<http://www.linde-gas.com/International/Web/LG/COM/likelgcom30.nsf/DocByAlias/ind_dairyMapax>

> So it has nothing to do with the quality of the lid's seal, it is a
> function of separating most of the oxygen supply from most of the fungus
> spores.

Yeast, mold and bacteria. Sounds like a law firm.

"Yeast and molds that tolerate lower pH are the more predominant
spoilage organisms. Bacillus subtillis and b. cereus can cause bitter
flavors if large numbers survive pasteurization."
<http://www.bcnlabs.com/tests/products/dairy_products.htm>

Pastorio

Nancy1 wrote:

> Bob (this one) wrote:
>
>>aem wrote:
>>
>>>Nancy1 wrote:
>>>
>>>>Nothing beats first-hand experience, Bob. [snip]
>>>>
>>>>If it doesn't work for you, fine, don't do it.
>>>>
>>>>It does work for me. I don't understand why you continue to argue ...[snip]
>>>
>>>Of course you understand why. You're just too polite to say it. :-)
>>
>>I'm sorry if I hurt your widdle feelings to the point where you have to
>>take these little shots.
>>
>>Oh, wait. No I'm not.
>>
>>Pastorio
>
> You didn't hurt my feelings - WTF are you on, anyway?

Nancy, darlin... Not everything is about you. Go up top and look at the
attributions. See...? aem felt the need to jump in with a snide comment.
That's what I'm on about.

You and I have been pushing an idea around - admittedly with a bit of
heat - but not getting nasty.

It follows as the day follows the night, those attributions. If I had
something to say to you, I would have put it immediately following
something you'd said. If I didn't put it there, it isn't about you.

> or maybe off?
> And in previous posts, I didn't take any little shots - I said, fine,
> you don't need to store things upside down; I find it useful, so what's
> the point in carrying on with this?

Have a nice cup of tea or some damn thing. You're beginning to make a
habit of assuming that my post is about you when the attributions were
clear enough to the contrary.

Pastorio

Charles Quinn wrote:

> How to make just about everything in the refrigerator stay fresh longer.
> After it is opened just store it upside down.

I'm just imagining the pickle/yogurt/jam cocktail that would probably
end up on my shelves... or the disastrous consequences of removing a
big carton of sour cream upside-down (and accidentally squeezing it a
touch too much)...

--

Karen MacInerney
Kitchen experimenter, family chauffeur, and culinary mystery author
www.karenmacinerney.com

Bob (this one) wrote:
>
>
> Well, I'm afraid I don't believe that this inversion matters. So far,
> it's been a very small bit of anecdotal comment and a lot of
> speculation, but nothing substantive to document it. Lots of food
> science and industry experience to contradict it. My "first-hand
> experience" as well.
>
>> I wonder if what's going on is that mold spores are trapped at the top
>> of the carton because they stick to the surface of the sour cream.
>> When you turn the carton upside down, the air moves up to the bottom
>> of the carton. The mold spores are deprived of oxygen. Aerobic
>> bacteria that could cause spoilage at the bottom of the carton (now
>> that they have an air pocket) are inhibited by the acid and any active
>> lactobacillus cultures in the sour cream.
>
>
> Turning the container over creates turbulence, mixing; part of top goes
> to bottom. Air pocket at top of upright container has to go to the
> bottom. Takes critters and fungi with it. For as long as yogurt has been
> around - and kefir, koumiss, sour cream, cottage cheese and other
> fermented milks - no culture stores any of it in upside down containers.
> Nobody else does it, including the folks who essentially invented those
> things and can't afford to waste any of it.

They also don't leave them in the fridge for 3 weeks.

> Containers unopened, handled and refrigerated - everything done properly
> - will spoil. That plastic sheet that sits down flush with the top of
> the cottage cheese should keep out air, but it will spoil anyway. The
> ingredients for spoilage are already in there. It'll spoil no matter
> what. And it'll spoil in your fridge - right side up - in something
> between about a week and a half and a month, depending on many factors
> not least how close to sell-by date when purchased.
>

I understand all that; and I don't believe turning it upside-down will
help anything either. (I proposed earlier that maybe it just spoils at
the bottom and nobody notices.) But enough people claim to have
first-hand experience with it that I'm not willing to dismiss the idea
completely and I certainly won't ridicule them in the absence of
scientific proof. I think my explanation is plausible -- air at the
bottom, contaminated food at the top that needs air to spoil. It
wouldn't take the critters to the bottom that were stuck on the surface
already, just the ones that were still airborne.

Best regards,
Bob

Nancy1 wrote:
>
> You didn't hurt my feelings - WTF are you on, anyway? or maybe off?
> And in previous posts, I didn't take any little shots - I said,
> fine, you don't need to store things upside down; I find it
> useful, so what's the point in carrying on with this?

The only way to handle Bob is to stop responding to him.
You have to say what you want to say, and then let him
have the last word. That's the only way a Bob-war ends.

That's what caused the Great Bob-vs.-Chung War.
Bob finally ran across someone who was as stubborn
as he was, and willing to use poison gas against
innocent newsgroup civilians to boot.

Steve Wertz wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 04:59:32 GMT, Charles Quinn
>
>>How to make just about everything in the refrigerator stay fresh longer.
>>After it is opened just store it upside down. I have tested this with
>>Milk, Sour Cream, Dip, Applesauce, Jelly, Jam, Pickles, Peppers and more.
>
> Wouldn't it be easier just to turn the refrigerator upside down?

<lol> And it would make just as much sense.

I love these rigorous experiments conducted with micro-precision. I
flat-out disbelieve it.

Jams and jellies will literally last years in a fridge; low pH, lotsa
sugar and cold temps will restrict stuff from growing. The worst
likelihood is sugar crystallization, easily fixed by heating. Any but
"fresh" pickles can do fine at room temp - they're preserved, fer
crissake. How does one store peppers upside down? Applesauce will last a
couple months in a fridge. Dip, indeed. That's my opinion of all this.

Sheep dip.

Pastorio

Mark Thorson wrote:
> Nancy1 wrote:
>
>>You didn't hurt my feelings - WTF are you on, anyway? or maybe off?
>>And in previous posts, I didn't take any little shots - I said,
>>fine, you don't need to store things upside down; I find it
>>useful, so what's the point in carrying on with this?
>
> The only way to handle Bob is to stop responding to him.

Actually not. I respond well to logic, facts, proof and clarity. But how
would you know?

> You have to say what you want to say, and then let him
> have the last word. That's the only way a Bob-war ends.

Oh, look. It's Mark "Food-grade Propane" Thorson.

<LOL> What wonderful expertise. After I've given you the last word
several times and you treat me this way. <snif>

> That's what caused the Great Bob-vs.-Chung War.
> Bob finally ran across someone who was as stubborn
> as he was, and willing to use poison gas against
> innocent newsgroup civilians to boot.

<LOL> Score one for good imagery.

You'll heal one day, Mark.

No, seriously...

Pastorio

zxcvbob wrote:

> I don't believe turning it upside-down will help anything either. (I
> proposed earlier that maybe it just spoils at the bottom and nobody
> notices.)

<LOL> That, I suspect, is a lot closer to any truth than that it somehow
extends shelf life.

> But enough people claim to have first-hand experience with it that
> I'm not willing to dismiss the idea completely and I certainly won't
> ridicule them in the absence of scientific proof.

It seems to me that proponents have the burden of proof. Claims are
claims. Some people throw pinches of salt over their shoulders.

> I think my explanation is plausible -- air at the bottom,
> contaminated food at the top that needs air to spoil.

Look at the critters that are at work. Fermentation of yogurt,
buttermilk and sour cream is anaerobic. Many competing bacteria will
work that way as well. Yeasts work anaerobically. Bacteria, fungi,
molds, protozoa, actinomycetes, and other saprophytic organisms operate
anaerobically. None need air to function. Turning it upside down so
there's no air at the surface makes it *worse*.

> It wouldn't take the critters to the bottom that were stuck on the
> surface already, just the ones that were still airborne.

Mebbe so. But I'm still waiting for anything that would point to any
mechanism that stands up to scrutiny that would explain the claimed
benefits.

Pastorio

Bob (this one) wrote:
> Nancy1 wrote:
>
> > Bob (this one) wrote:
> >
> >>aem wrote:
> >>
> >>>Nancy1 wrote:

> Have a nice cup of tea or some damn thing. You're beginning to make a
> habit of assuming that my post is about you when the attributions were
> clear enough to the contrary.
>
> Pastorio

I read through the attributions twice, and couldn't figure out who you
were referring to, so of course I assumed it was ME. Isn't everything
about ME? LOL.

We're good.... ;-)

N.

Nancy1 wrote:

> I read through the attributions twice, and couldn't figure out who you
> were referring to, so of course I assumed it was ME. Isn't everything
> about ME? LOL.
>
> We're good.... ;-)

I hope so.

Pastorio

One time on Usenet, Mark Thorson > said:

<snip>

> The only way to handle Bob is to stop responding to him.
> You have to say what you want to say, and then let him
> have the last word. That's the only way a Bob-war ends.

Said the pot to the kettle...

--
jj - rfc (Jani) in WA
~ mom, Trollop, novice cook ~

jj - rfc wrote:
> One time on Usenet, Mark Thorson > said:
>
> <snip>
>
>>The only way to handle Bob is to stop responding to him.
>>You have to say what you want to say, and then let him
>>have the last word. That's the only way a Bob-war ends.
>
> Said the pot to the kettle...

<LOL>

But there is a nucleus of truth to the comment. It usually depends on
the absurdity of the claims, like Mark's hilarious "food-grade" propane
gaffes. The sillier they are, the more intense it can get.

Pastorio

Last night, I took an upside-down container of sour cream out of the
fridge. Whoa, NASTY! We did not pass go, we did not collect $200, we
took it straight to the trash barrel outside.

No further information is available on this incident.

Peace,
Carol, having a near-death experience from a cold