Is there a way to tell whether or not a store-bought bottle of honey
was made from bees who were feed granulated sugar, as opposed to honey
made by bees who feed upon a nearby field of some known plant? I
usually buy the kind that is labeled "clover", becuase I assume it
means they are required to feed the bees from a clover field, and NOT
suppliment with cheap white sugar. But now I am not so sure. The
newer label still says "clover", but it also includes several countries
as the source, and I wonder how are they controlling to insure against
their honey being "salted" (supplimenting the bees feeding with sugar).

I wish there were some way to test it for that - is there? It turns
out I have a lifelong allergy to anything dealing with granulated sugar
- but not with flower-feed bees honey. I realize this goes against
logic, since honey is almost chemically identical to granulated sugar,
but, years and years of reacting to hidden sugar in my diet, combined
with years and years of very heavy usage of "clover" honey, have been
enough to convince me. I recently switched brands of honey I am buying
and the allergic reactions have recurred. By the process of
elimination, I am now wondering about the honey - if it came from
"salted" sources, that would explain it. Rather than go off searching
out the source, I would like to take one of these bottles and have it
tested if there were such a way to conclusively know if the bees who
produced this honey were fed granulated sugar (10 % or more) during the
period of bee-making. Thanks, littlberry

wrote:

I wish there were some way to test it for that - is there? It turns
out I have a lifelong allergy to anything dealing with granulated sugar
- but not with flower-feed bees honey. I realize this goes against
logic, since honey is almost chemically identical to granulated sugar,

No, it's not. Commericial sugar is almost pure sucrose.
Honey is mostly simple sugars (glucose and fructose),
also known as "invert sugar".

You can measure the invert sugar content of honey,
which could be used as an indication of adulteration
with sucrose. Here's a method:

http://ohioline.osu.edu/b856/b856_109.html

Note that honey normally contains a small amount
of sucrose. The following link goes to the Codex
standard for honey, which mentions acceptable
levels of sucrose for particular honeys:

http://www.fao.org/docrep/w0076e/w0076e30.htm

However, I very much doubt you have a true allergy
to commercial sugar. There isn't much besides
sucrose in there to act as an allergen.
It's among the purest materials used in food
(comparable to kosher salt, MSG, and distilled
water).

Mark Thorson wrote:

You can measure the invert sugar content of honey,
which could be used as an indication of adulteration
with sucrose. Here's a method:

http://ohioline.osu.edu/b856/b856_109.html

On reviewing that method more carefully, I don't
think it could be adapted for your purpose.
The simplest method which would work for you
would probably be to read the invert vs. sucrose
content directly using a polarimetric method.
Polarimeters show up on eBay frequently, but
that's probably way more of an investment
in time and money then you wish to make.

On 2 Mar 2006 12:03:49 -0800, wrote:

Is there a way to tell whether or not a store-bought bottle of honey
was made from bees who were feed granulated sugar, as opposed to
honey
made by bees who feed upon a nearby field of some known plant? I
usually buy the kind that is labeled "clover", becuase I assume it
means they are required to feed the bees from a clover field, and NOT

snipped...

First of all I hope you are not allergic to sugar as my husband, dad
and grandfathers all grew sugar cane.

I do sell Honey myself and wonder why you limit your Honey to just
Clover. There are a ton of different real and yummy Honeys. I
believe that when there isn't enough rain or food usually at the
beginning of spring, beekeepers have to keep the bee colony alive and
they would have to use sugar water, but I don't think it is what they
most want to do.

Try buying from a beekeeper too, who could tell you everything about
their Honey.

Good luck.

aloha,
Thunder
smithfarms.com
Farmers of 100% Kona Coffee
& other Great Stuff

wrote:

Is there a way to tell whether or not a store-bought bottle of honey
was made from bees who were feed granulated sugar, as opposed to honey
made by bees who feed upon a nearby field of some known plant? I
usually buy the kind that is labeled "clover", becuase I assume it
means they are required to feed the bees from a clover field, and NOT
suppliment with cheap white sugar. But now I am not so sure. The
newer label still says "clover", but it also includes several countries
as the source, and I wonder how are they controlling to insure against
their honey being "salted" (supplimenting the bees feeding with sugar).


snip

Maybe you could find a few (local or non-local) honey farms, and find
out if they supplement their bee hives or not, and just purchase the
honey from them. It would be more expensive, but if you keep close
relations with the owner or manager and they know of your situation,
then maybe you might be safe, rather than going with a big corporation
that purchases from many sources.

By the way, I recommend Fireweed or Orange Blossom Honey. Yum!

Denise~* wrote:
Maybe you could find a few (local or non-local) honey farms, and find
out if they supplement their bee hives or not, and just purchase the
honey from them. It would be more expensive, but if you keep close
relations with the owner or manager and they know of your situation,
then maybe you might be safe, rather than going with a big corporation
that purchases from many sources.

By the way, I recommend Fireweed or Orange Blossom Honey. Yum!

When my grandfather kept beehives on the farm, he would supplement them
with a solution akin to what they put in humming bird feeders if worse
came to worst.

Incidentally, you are NOT allergic to sugar. Allergic reactions require
protein allergens as triggers, and sugars alone have neither proteins
nor components to build proteins.

Back to my grandpa's bees: One spring he planted a field in rye. The
honey was FABULOUS that year!

Pennyaline wrote:
Denise~* wrote:

Maybe you could find a few (local or non-local) honey farms, and find
out if they supplement their bee hives or not, and just purchase the
honey from them. It would be more expensive, but if you keep close
relations with the owner or manager and they know of your situation,
then maybe you might be safe, rather than going with a big corporation
that purchases from many sources.

By the way, I recommend Fireweed or Orange Blossom Honey. Yum!


When my grandfather kept beehives on the farm, he would supplement them
with a solution akin to what they put in humming bird feeders if worse
came to worst.

Incidentally, you are NOT allergic to sugar. Allergic reactions require
protein allergens as triggers, and sugars alone have neither proteins
nor components to build proteins.

Back to my grandpa's bees: One spring he planted a field in rye. The
honey was FABULOUS that year!

I'm imagining the flavor right now. Can you describe it?

--

saerah

http://anisaerah.blogspot.com/

email:
anisaerah at s b c global.net

"Peace is not an absence of war, it is a virtue, a state of mind, a
disposition for benevolence, confidence, justice."
-Baruch Spinoza

"There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly
what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear
and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There
is another theory which states that this has already happened."
-Douglas Adams

Pennyaline wrote:


Back to my grandpa's bees: One spring he planted a field in rye. The
honey was FABULOUS that year!

We used to get a Fall Flower Honey from the local farmers market. It was
great. It was more flavourful than closer honey. Unfortunately, I haven't
been able to get it for years.

My father used to love buckwheat honey. I don't mind it once in a while, but
it is a very powerful flavour component.

Pennyaline wrote:

Incidentally, you are NOT allergic to sugar. Allergic reactions
require protein allergens as triggers, and sugars alone have
neither proteins nor components to build proteins.

Allergens do not have to be proteins. An allergen
can be anything that binds to a protein, such as
certain metal ions. These are authentic allergies,
even though the allergen is not a protein or even
anything organic.

For example, in the case of chromium:
http://www.chromium-asoc.com/publica...file2oct96.htm

wrote in message
oups.com...
Is there a way to tell whether or not a store-bought bottle of honey
was made from bees who were feed granulated sugar, as opposed to
honey
made by bees who feed upon a nearby field of some known plant? I
usually buy the kind that is labeled "clover", becuase I assume it
means they are required to feed the bees from a clover field, and
NOT
suppliment with cheap white sugar. But now I am not so sure. The
newer label still says "clover", but it also includes several
countries
as the source, and I wonder how are they controlling to insure
against
their honey being "salted" (supplimenting the bees feeding with
sugar).

I wish there were some way to test it for that - is there? It turns
out I have a lifelong allergy to anything dealing with granulated
sugar
- but not with flower-feed bees honey. I realize this goes against
logic, since honey is almost chemically identical to granulated
sugar Thanks, littlberry

Little known about run-of-the-mill honey: This product is heavily
'cut' with glucose to prevent it from losing its shelf appeal (read:
translucency), and the producers are not required by law to list the
glucose on the label!

Even honeys labeled as raw can be deceptive. Having purchased 'raw'
honey from Whole Foods (who had it in a heated container) I gave it
the acid test: I refrigerated the honey, and it did not solidify. I
returned the bogus honey to Whole Foods for a refund.

Chemically, honey is quite far from sucrose; it is _naturally_ high in
glucose (as opposed to the synthetic glucose used to cut most
commercial honeys).

Make sure that you purchase raw honey (refrigerate to prove it is
raw), and you will not have an untoward allergic reaction. It is open
to debate as to how a bee would metabolize sucrose; it could be as
serendipitous as a pig eating garbage, or it could be nearly poisonous
to them. A topic for another forum.


--
Mabry
C=;-{ }

wrote in message
oups.com...

[snipped]
It turns out I have a lifelong allergy to anything dealing with
granulated sugar
- but not with flower-feed bees honey.
but, years and years of reacting to hidden sugar in my diet,
combined
with years
Thanks, littlberry

You are reacting to the "commercial" (chemically altered) sugar that
food manufacturers put in their products (as much as possible) that
produces an insulin spike followed by an insulin crash in the
consumer, whereby the blood sugar level drops below_ where it was
prior to ingestion. And you would have to know the effect of this is
an enormous increase in appetite - which sells more of the,
especially, snack products. A vicious circle the manufacturers take
full advantage of. Originally they added sugar to cover inferior
quality but received the manna-from-heaven bonus of increased sales.

Interestingly enough, you could probably tolerate a portion of
homemade (made with sugar from your sugar bowl) rice pudding without
incident, but a commercial rice pudding would have you near collapse.
I also am hypersensitive to what I thought was all sugar but passed
the rice pudding test with flying colors. The synthetic sugar of the
food manufacturers is the dirty little secret that all deny
vehemently.


--
Mabry
C=;-{ }

"Mabry" wrote in message
news:HHRNf.3042$p43.2855@fed1read05...

You are reacting to the "commercial" (chemically altered) sugar that
food manufacturers put in their products (as much as possible)

OK, now you've got me curious - exactly how do you
believe this sugar has been altered (what is the chemical
change involved), and for what reason? Is the sugar
in question something other than the good ol' sucrose,
fructose, lactose, etc., that we all came to know and
love in organic chem?

Bob M.

On Fri, 03 Mar 2006 19:55:20 GMT, "Bob Myers"
wrote:


"Mabry" wrote in message
news:HHRNf.3042$p43.2855@fed1read05...

You are reacting to the "commercial" (chemically altered) sugar that
food manufacturers put in their products (as much as possible)

OK, now you've got me curious - exactly how do you
believe this sugar has been altered (what is the chemical
change involved), and for what reason? Is the sugar
in question something other than the good ol' sucrose,
fructose, lactose, etc., that we all came to know and
love in organic chem?

Me, I'm smelling a one-trick pony of the 'big business conspiracy'
kind.

--
-denny-
"Do your thoughts call ahead or do they just arrive at your mouth unannounced?"

"It's come as you are, baby."

-over the hedge

Mabry wrote:

Little known about run-of-the-mill honey: This product is
heavily 'cut' with glucose to prevent it from losing its
shelf appeal (read: translucency), and the producers are
not required by law to list the glucose on the label!

Baloney. This would be completely illegal in the U.S.,
and a strong industry lobby keeps it that way.

Even honeys labeled as raw can be deceptive. Having purchased
'raw' honey from Whole Foods (who had it in a heated container) I
gave it the acid test: I refrigerated the honey, and it did not
solidify. I returned the bogus honey to Whole Foods for a refund.

That's a bogus test. Some honeys crystallize readily
while others (such as tupelo honey) are much more
resistant to crystallization.

Chemically, honey is quite far from sucrose; it is _naturally_
high in glucose (as opposed to the synthetic glucose used to
cut most commercial honeys).

All D-glucose is the same. There is a mirror-image form
of glucose (called L-glucose), which is synthetic, but it's
never used in a commercial product because it's out-of-sight
expensive. Even that form of glucose is made from a
naturally occurring sugar (L-arabinose).

Make sure that you purchase raw honey (refrigerate to prove it
is raw), and you will not have an untoward allergic reaction.
It is open to debate as to how a bee would metabolize sucrose;
it could be as serendipitous as a pig eating garbage, or it
could be nearly poisonous to them. A topic for another forum.

The flower nectar collected by bees contains lots of
sucrose, and the bees make an enzyme (invertase) which
breaks sucrose down into simple sugars. There's no
mystery or debate about it, among educated people.
Sucrose certainly is not poisonous to bees.

"Mark Thorson" wrote in message
...
Mabry wrote:

Little known about run-of-the-mill honey: This product is
heavily 'cut' with glucose to prevent it from losing its
shelf appeal (read: translucency), and the producers are
not required by law to list the glucose on the label!

Baloney. This would be completely illegal in the U.S.,
and a strong industry lobby keeps it that way.

Even honeys labeled as raw can be deceptive. Having purchased
'raw' honey from Whole Foods (who had it in a heated container) I
gave it the acid test: I refrigerated the honey, and it did not
solidify. I returned the bogus honey to Whole Foods for a refund.

That's a bogus test. Some honeys crystallize readily
while others (such as tupelo honey) are much more
resistant to crystallization.

Chemically, honey is quite far from sucrose; it is _naturally_
high in glucose (as opposed to the synthetic glucose used to
cut most commercial honeys).

All D-glucose is the same. There is a mirror-image form
of glucose (called L-glucose), which is synthetic, but it's
never used in a commercial product because it's out-of-sight
expensive. Even that form of glucose is made from a
naturally occurring sugar (L-arabinose).

Make sure that you purchase raw honey (refrigerate to prove it
is raw), and you will not have an untoward allergic reaction.
It is open to debate as to how a bee would metabolize sucrose;
it could be as serendipitous as a pig eating garbage, or it
could be nearly poisonous to them. A topic for another forum.

The flower nectar collected by bees contains lots of
sucrose, and the bees make an enzyme (invertase) which
breaks sucrose down into simple sugars. There's no
mystery or debate about it, among educated people.
Sucrose certainly is not poisonous to bees.

It was never my intention to debate anyone (much less proselytize) who
is limited to unscientifically supported statements under the homemade
rubric of "Baloney". If you can't "take it to court" with bona fide
citations and are relying on personal (albeit strongly held) opinion,
that will remain our point of departure.

Though you freely mix the purportedly scientific with opinion, on only
one point I would suggest that concrete evidence be presented: that
of a raw honey that does _not_ solidify at a temperature of less than
40 degrees Fahrenheit. Given the inaccuracies presented, it is likely
that all the other contentions are equally as suspect - not something
deserving of much time or attention by me at present. Admittedly, I
am sorely tempted to inquire how much research you have availed
yourself of with regard to the effects of feeding a solution of
refined sugar to hummingbirds over a period of time.

How completely startling to discover there still exists someone who
believes that because something is illegal, it cannot exist/be used.
/Mirabile dictu/


--
Mabry
C=;-{ }