Why are we cooking country ham? We eat Prosciutto. (Italy cured ham)
without cooking why cook U.S. Cured ham?

I am thinking that on my next visit to Billy's Pork Store in eastern NC
that I am going to ask him to:

1. cut me a two inch slab of the center cut

2. clean up the outside

3. debone the slab

4. adjust his slicer to shave

5. slice down the center cut two inch slab

6. eat it COLD

Will it kill me?

Thanks

Doug Clark

In article . com,
wrote:

Why are we cooking country ham? We eat Prosciutto. (Italy cured ham)
without cooking why cook U.S. Cured ham?

I am thinking that on my next visit to Billy's Pork Store in eastern NC
that I am going to ask him to:

1. cut me a two inch slab of the center cut

2. clean up the outside

3. debone the slab

4. adjust his slicer to shave

5. slice down the center cut two inch slab

6. eat it COLD

Will it kill me?

Well it hasn't killed me... But if you're on a low sodium diet, watch
out! grin My favorite taste of raw country ham was from a leg that
wasn't smoked. It was , in fact, very prosciutto like. But since
country hams are highly variable, depending on maker and style, you
might run into one that's too salty or strong. Age makes a noticeable
difference. Some hams just plain need to be soaked. But, do give it a
try-

D.M.

Donald Martinich wrote:
In article . com,
wrote:

Why are we cooking country ham? We eat Prosciutto. (Italy cured ham)
without cooking why cook U.S. Cured ham?


Will it kill me?

I doubt it will kill you but I also doubt there is enough water in
your city's reservoir to quench that raging thirst. Let us know how it
went and what your b/p reading was after this foray into
uncooked/unsoaked country ham.

:-)

It has always been the dictum in the USA that you have to cook pork to a
temp. of at least 150F because of the risk of trichinosis. In actual fact,
there hasn't been a single reported case of trichinosis in this country for
at least 50 years. Regardless of what you may think of USA pork, it is free
of almost everything. When you dry cure pork, as in the case of Smithfield,
or Proscuito, the salt concentration is hgh to the point where the risk of
any infection is probably removed. That's just an opinion.
I have cooked a # of Smithfield hams, always with limited success. They
taste too salty; if they are cooked to the doneness level the meat falls
apart.
The rare times I have cleaned off the exterior, removed it from the bone,
sliced it thin and swallowed it down, I have wondered why we all don't do
this routinely. If anyone has a more informed answer about this, I am sure
we would all like to hear it.
Kent

wrote in message
ups.com...
Why are we cooking country ham? We eat Prosciutto. (Italy cured ham)
without cooking why cook U.S. Cured ham?

I am thinking that on my next visit to Billy's Pork Store in eastern NC
that I am going to ask him to:

1. cut me a two inch slab of the center cut

2. clean up the outside

3. debone the slab

4. adjust his slicer to shave

5. slice down the center cut two inch slab

6. eat it COLD

Will it kill me?

Thanks

Doug Clark

Kent wrote:
It has always been the dictum in the USA that you have to cook pork to a
temp. of at least 150F because of the risk of trichinosis. In actual fact,
there hasn't been a single reported case of trichinosis in this country for
at least 50 years. Regardless of what you may think of USA pork, it is free
of almost everything. When you dry cure pork, as in the case of Smithfield,
or Proscuito, the salt concentration is hgh to the point where the risk of
any infection is probably removed. That's just an opinion.
I have cooked a # of Smithfield hams, always with limited success. They
taste too salty; if they are cooked to the doneness level the meat falls
apart.
The rare times I have cleaned off the exterior, removed it from the bone,
sliced it thin and swallowed it down, I have wondered why we all don't do
this routinely. If anyone has a more informed answer about this, I am sure
we would all like to hear it.
Kent


From the CDC:

Is trichinellosis common in the United States?

Infection was once very common and usually caused by ingestion of
undercooked pork. However, infection is now relatively rare. During
1997-2001, an average of 12 cases per year were reported. The number of
cases has decreased because of legislation prohibiting the feeding of
raw-meat garbage to hogs, commercial and home freezing of pork, and the
public awareness of the danger of eating raw or undercooked pork
products. Cases are less commonly associated with pork products and more
often associated with eating raw or undercooked wild game meats.



--
You wanna measure or you wanna cook?

On Fri, 20 Jan 2006, Steve Wertz wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 22:38:38 -0800, "Kent"
wrote:

It has always been the dictum in the USA that you have to cook pork to a
temp. of at least 150F because of the risk of trichinosis. In actual fact,
there hasn't been a single reported case of trichinosis in this country for
at least 50 years.

Actually, trichinoses is still reported a few times a year, but it
continues to decline. They attribute it to eating wild game, and
if from pork, usually from a secluded source.

The Trichinea is a second host worm. It is ingested by the orginal host,
works its way through the intestinal lining and bores into a muscle. It
lives in the muscle of the original host in a permanant larva state -
doing no damage and creating no problems for the host. When
the muscle is ingested by the second host, the larva
moves through the intestinal wall and into the muscle of the second host,
where it then begins the metamorphosis into the worm.

In its larva state, it is nearly undetectable by the naked eye and will
appear as a point-of-a-needle sized spot that, at its maximum, is only a
shade or two different than the host color, and only then if you have a
piece of meat where the sectioning occurs where the larva is exposed to
the surface. If you have a microscope, the larva can be seen and will be a
light purple, irregularly shaped spot. It takes 138 degrees to kill the
larva.

Geez, after that biology class, I couldn't look a pork chop in the eye for
months! I got over it g. It was even worse than finding out "Jello" was
[back in the day] made from the hooves of horses and cattle. boo, hiss.

Commercial hogs today are probably not as susceptable because they spend
most of their lives in a "feed lot". Hogs on private farms for private use
are, sometimes, allowed to "graze" in wooded areas. They eat lots of
fruits, berries, and nuts. Like wild hogs, they can sustain themselves off
the land - given the right territory.

Since salt is an osmotic dehydration agent, the salt cure may kill the
trichinea. Although I don't know for sure, I
would think that the closer to the surface the larva, the more likely it
would be that the salt (and or smoke) would pull the moisture out of the
larva and kill it. Generally, the salt cure is/was not as much about
killing what is/was on the inside as it was about killing what is/was
on the outside. They are/were using the salt to pull the moisture to
the surface and then trying to keep things out with a barrier of
salt, because, through osmosis, the salt killed any invading bacteria by
"sucking the life [moisture] out of it".

Fully cured pork (not the partially cured items found in the grocery
store) shouldn't hurt you - unless you stumble upon the rare trichinea
larva. There's probably a simple enough cure for it today.

Elaine, too

Thanks Elaine for an illuminating educational post.
What's your feeling on brine curing meat[turkey, pork, etc.] and then
smoking at a low 135-150F temp.? This is routinely followed by cooking to
the usual "healthy temperature" except with cold smoked salmon, which of
course never gets warm.
I have done this with turkeys, as described in the Luhrs Jensen "Little
Chef" manual without problems. N=1, however, doesn't man much overall.
Do you think a high salt concentration in brine 10% provides more or better
infectional resistance? I have always assumed so, though I don't know.
Thanks for any thoughts you have.
Kent

"Elaine Parrish" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 20 Jan 2006, Steve Wertz wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 22:38:38 -0800, "Kent"
wrote:

It has always been the dictum in the USA that you have to cook pork to a
temp. of at least 150F because of the risk of trichinosis. In actual
fact,
there hasn't been a single reported case of trichinosis in this country
for
at least 50 years.

Actually, trichinoses is still reported a few times a year, but it
continues to decline. They attribute it to eating wild game, and
if from pork, usually from a secluded source.

The Trichinea is a second host worm. It is ingested by the orginal host,
works its way through the intestinal lining and bores into a muscle. It
lives in the muscle of the original host in a permanant larva state -
doing no damage and creating no problems for the host. When
the muscle is ingested by the second host, the larva
moves through the intestinal wall and into the muscle of the second host,
where it then begins the metamorphosis into the worm.

In its larva state, it is nearly undetectable by the naked eye and will
appear as a point-of-a-needle sized spot that, at its maximum, is only a
shade or two different than the host color, and only then if you have a
piece of meat where the sectioning occurs where the larva is exposed to
the surface. If you have a microscope, the larva can be seen and will be a
light purple, irregularly shaped spot. It takes 138 degrees to kill the
larva.

Geez, after that biology class, I couldn't look a pork chop in the eye for
months! I got over it g. It was even worse than finding out "Jello" was
[back in the day] made from the hooves of horses and cattle. boo, hiss.

Commercial hogs today are probably not as susceptable because they spend
most of their lives in a "feed lot". Hogs on private farms for private use
are, sometimes, allowed to "graze" in wooded areas. They eat lots of
fruits, berries, and nuts. Like wild hogs, they can sustain themselves off
the land - given the right territory.

Since salt is an osmotic dehydration agent, the salt cure may kill the
trichinea. Although I don't know for sure, I
would think that the closer to the surface the larva, the more likely it
would be that the salt (and or smoke) would pull the moisture out of the
larva and kill it. Generally, the salt cure is/was not as much about
killing what is/was on the inside as it was about killing what is/was
on the outside. They are/were using the salt to pull the moisture to
the surface and then trying to keep things out with a barrier of
salt, because, through osmosis, the salt killed any invading bacteria by
"sucking the life [moisture] out of it".

Fully cured pork (not the partially cured items found in the grocery
store) shouldn't hurt you - unless you stumble upon the rare trichinea
larva. There's probably a simple enough cure for it today.

Elaine, too

On Fri, 20 Jan 2006, Kent wrote:

Thanks Elaine for an illuminating educational post.
What's your feeling on brine curing meat[turkey, pork, etc.] and then
smoking at a low 135-150F temp.? This is routinely followed by cooking to
the usual "healthy temperature" except with cold smoked salmon, which of
course never gets warm.
I have done this with turkeys, as described in the Luhrs Jensen "Little
Chef" manual without problems. N=1, however, doesn't man much overall.
Do you think a high salt concentration in brine 10% provides more or better
infectional resistance? I have always assumed so, though I don't know.
Thanks for any thoughts you have.
Kent

Hey Kent,

Thank you. That was one of those middle of the night, totally wired, can't
sleep posts in the category of "More info than I ever wanted to know!" hehe.

For some reason, that biology class is as clear in my mind today as it was
then. I guess because we eat so much pork and it was such a shock to hear
it and then actually look at it. geez. Now if only I could remember
something that I could actually use - like, where I put my car keys g.

I never had any first hand experience with smoking meat. My grandfather
cured his. (ok, all you wise acres out there, don't even go there!g)

If smoking is the method of preserving, I would think that brining would
be a good way to add salt to the meat. With brining, the "water" in the
meat is released into the brine and the brine then moves into the meat.
So, yes, I would think the higher salt content you described would be
better.

Do you then coat your smoked meat in a layer of salt? How do you store it?

Elaine, too

On 19 Jan 2006 16:52:50 -0800, wrote:

Why are we cooking country ham? We eat Prosciutto. (Italy cured ham)
without cooking why cook U.S. Cured ham?

I am thinking that on my next visit to Billy's Pork Store in eastern NC
that I am going to ask him to:

1. cut me a two inch slab of the center cut

2. clean up the outside

3. debone the slab

4. adjust his slicer to shave

5. slice down the center cut two inch slab

6. eat it COLD

Will it kill me?

Thanks

Doug Clark

Hey Doug!
I have some experience cooking Country Ham! I like to take "center
slices" vacuum packed from the grocery store and just pop them into
the microwave for two to three minutes. They make a perfect
accompanyment to fried eggs, bisquits and grits. Also, you can make
"red eye" gravy by stirring a little coffee into the drippings off the
ham in a frying pan.

If you want to remove the saltiness, just get some water boiling in a
frying pan and through the ham slice in for a "bath". It will soak
that salt right out in 20 seconds then you can heat it as I said
before in the microwave to get it ready to serve.

Bill

"Bill" wrote

I have some experience cooking Country Ham! I like to take "center
slices" vacuum packed from the grocery store and just pop them into
the microwave for two to three minutes. They make a perfect
accompanyment to fried eggs, bisquits and grits. Also, you can make
"red eye" gravy by stirring a little coffee into the drippings off the
ham in a frying pan.

I get those once in a while, I like that for dinner, I know
it's not gore-met but hey, dinner's on the table in a flash.
Anyway, last time this ham slice thing came up, I mentioned
the water content and this surprised someone, so I doublechecked
at the store. Yup, ham slice, a good 25% water by weight.

nancy

On Sat 21 Jan 2006 06:03:02p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Nancy
Young?


"Bill" wrote

I have some experience cooking Country Ham! I like to take "center
slices" vacuum packed from the grocery store and just pop them into
the microwave for two to three minutes. They make a perfect
accompanyment to fried eggs, bisquits and grits. Also, you can make
"red eye" gravy by stirring a little coffee into the drippings off the
ham in a frying pan.

I get those once in a while, I like that for dinner, I know
it's not gore-met but hey, dinner's on the table in a flash.
Anyway, last time this ham slice thing came up, I mentioned
the water content and this surprised someone, so I doublechecked
at the store. Yup, ham slice, a good 25% water by weight.

nancy

Are you sure that was *country* ham, Nancy? It's rarely injected with
anything. In fact, it's usually on the dry side unless it's soaked before
cooking.

--
Wayne Boatwright Õ¿Õ¬
________________________________________

Okay, okay, I take it back! UnScrew you!

On Sat 21 Jan 2006 05:48:45p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Bill?

On 19 Jan 2006 16:52:50 -0800, wrote:

Why are we cooking country ham? We eat Prosciutto. (Italy cured ham)
without cooking why cook U.S. Cured ham?

I am thinking that on my next visit to Billy's Pork Store in eastern NC
that I am going to ask him to:

1. cut me a two inch slab of the center cut

2. clean up the outside

3. debone the slab

4. adjust his slicer to shave

5. slice down the center cut two inch slab

6. eat it COLD

Will it kill me?

Thanks

Doug Clark

Hey Doug!
I have some experience cooking Country Ham! I like to take "center
slices" vacuum packed from the grocery store and just pop them into
the microwave for two to three minutes. They make a perfect
accompanyment to fried eggs, bisquits and grits. Also, you can make
"red eye" gravy by stirring a little coffee into the drippings off the
ham in a frying pan.

If you want to remove the saltiness, just get some water boiling in a
frying pan and through the ham slice in for a "bath". It will soak
that salt right out in 20 seconds then you can heat it as I said
before in the microwave to get it ready to serve.

I can't imagine zapping a slice of country in the MW, whether it's center
cut and vacuum packed or not. My family (Mississippi roots where country
ham abounds) always soaked slices, or even the whole ham, overnight in
milk, then dried thoroughly before frying or baking. It not only reduces
the saltiness but also helps to rehydrate the meat.

--
Wayne Boatwright Õ¿Õ¬
________________________________________

Okay, okay, I take it back! UnScrew you!

"Wayne Boatwright" wayneboatwright_at_gmail.com wrote

On Sat 21 Jan 2006 06:03:02p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Nancy
Young?

"Bill" wrote

I have some experience cooking Country Ham! I like to take "center
slices" vacuum packed from the grocery store and just pop them into
the microwave for two to three minutes. They make a perfect
accompanyment to fried eggs, bisquits and grits. Also, you can make
"red eye" gravy by stirring a little coffee into the drippings off the
ham in a frying pan.

I get those once in a while, I like that for dinner, I know
it's not gore-met but hey, dinner's on the table in a flash.
Anyway, last time this ham slice thing came up, I mentioned
the water content and this surprised someone, so I doublechecked
at the store. Yup, ham slice, a good 25% water by weight.

Are you sure that was *country* ham, Nancy? It's rarely injected with
anything. In fact, it's usually on the dry side unless it's soaked before
cooking.

Oh, No! I know he said that, I assumed he was talking
about the same type of product I was, I haven't been playing
along in the ham discussion ... I have read different explanations
what that is, I wouldn't presume to say for sure.

In english, I don't know for sure what a country ham is because
I've seen different descriptions. I was only talking about the ham
slices you buy vacuum packed.

nancy

Nancy Young wrote:
"Wayne Boatwright" wayneboatwright_at_gmail.com wrote


On Sat 21 Jan 2006 06:03:02p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Nancy
Young?


"Bill" wrote


I have some experience cooking Country Ham! I like to take "center
slices" vacuum packed from the grocery store and just pop them into
the microwave for two to three minutes. They make a perfect
accompanyment to fried eggs, bisquits and grits. Also, you can make
"red eye" gravy by stirring a little coffee into the drippings off the
ham in a frying pan.

I get those once in a while, I like that for dinner, I know
it's not gore-met but hey, dinner's on the table in a flash.
Anyway, last time this ham slice thing came up, I mentioned
the water content and this surprised someone, so I doublechecked
at the store. Yup, ham slice, a good 25% water by weight.


Are you sure that was *country* ham, Nancy? It's rarely injected with
anything. In fact, it's usually on the dry side unless it's soaked before
cooking.


Oh, No! I know he said that, I assumed he was talking
about the same type of product I was, I haven't been playing
along in the ham discussion ... I have read different explanations
what that is, I wouldn't presume to say for sure.

In english, I don't know for sure what a country ham is because
I've seen different descriptions. I was only talking about the ham
slices you buy vacuum packed.

nancy



"Country ham" is usually dry-cured (sometimes a little curing solution
is injected around the bone as insurance against spoilage.) It must
lose at least 11% (I think that's the right percentage) of its green
weight during curing and aging. So it has *less* water in it than it
started out with, unlike Nancy's ham slice that was 25% added water.

Best regards,
Bob

On Sat 21 Jan 2006 06:26:49p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Nancy
Young?


"Wayne Boatwright" wayneboatwright_at_gmail.com wrote

On Sat 21 Jan 2006 06:03:02p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Nancy
Young?

"Bill" wrote

I have some experience cooking Country Ham! I like to take "center
slices" vacuum packed from the grocery store and just pop them into
the microwave for two to three minutes. They make a perfect
accompanyment to fried eggs, bisquits and grits. Also, you can make
"red eye" gravy by stirring a little coffee into the drippings off
the ham in a frying pan.

I get those once in a while, I like that for dinner, I know
it's not gore-met but hey, dinner's on the table in a flash.
Anyway, last time this ham slice thing came up, I mentioned
the water content and this surprised someone, so I doublechecked at
the store. Yup, ham slice, a good 25% water by weight.

Are you sure that was *country* ham, Nancy? It's rarely injected with
anything. In fact, it's usually on the dry side unless it's soaked
before cooking.

Oh, No! I know he said that, I assumed he was talking
about the same type of product I was, I haven't been playing
along in the ham discussion ... I have read different explanations
what that is, I wouldn't presume to say for sure.

In english, I don't know for sure what a country ham is because
I've seen different descriptions. I was only talking about the ham
slices you buy vacuum packed.

Most supermarkets carry the type you bought, usually sugar-cured and
somewhat smoked. There are several different types that fit the category
of country hams, but they are usually cured using salt and are almost
always smoked. IMHO, they are almost inedible unless they are soaked
before cooking, but they are really delicious if prepared properly. I
have actually seen those for sale in a couple of Walmarts, but rarely if
ever in a supermarket. Of course, the availability of country ham in
stores is fairly dependent on where you live. In the Southern US you can
find them in far more places. I like both types, and they each have a
place on the table. I like to grill the sugar-cured ham slices, then
smear with a little mustard, sprinkle with brown sugar, and return to the
grill for a minutes or two.

--
Wayne Boatwright Õ¿Õ¬
________________________________________

Okay, okay, I take it back! UnScrew you!