Excerpts from
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/f...and-doesnt.htm


Know when it pays to buy organic products to reduce your exposure to
pesticides and other additives, and when it’s a waste of your money.

Buy these items organic as often as possible:

....apples, bell peppers, celery, cherries, imported grapes,
nectarines, peaches, pears, potatoes, red raspberries, spinach, and
strawberries

Why: The US Dept of Agriculture's lab testing reveals that even after
washing, some fruits and vegetables consistently carry much higher
levels of pesticide residue than others. Their conventionally grown
counterparts tend to be laden with pesticides. Among fruits,
nectarines had the highest percentage testing positive for pesticide
residue. Peaches and red raspberries had the most pesticides (nine) on
a single sample. Among vegetables, celery and spinach most often
carried pesticides, with spinach having the highest number (10) on a
single sample.

....meat, poultry, eggs, and dairy

Why: You greatly reduce the risk of exposure to mad cow disease and
minimize exposure to other potential toxins in non-organic feed. You
also avoid the results of production methods that use daily
supplemental hormones and antibiotics, which have been linked to
increased antibacterial resistance in humans.

....baby food

Why: Children’s developing bodies are especially vulnerable to toxins,
and they may be at risk of higher exposure. Baby food is often made up
of condensed fruits or vegetables, potentially concentrating pesticide
residues.

Buy these items organic if price is no object:

....asparagus, avocados, bananas, broccoli, cauliflower, sweet corn,
kiwi, mangos, onions, papaya, pineapples, and sweet peas

Why: Multiple pesticide residues are rarely found on conventionally
grown versions of these fruits and vegetables.

....breads, oils, potato chips, pasta, cereals, and other packaged
foods, such as canned or dried fruit and vegetables

Why: Although these processed products may have lower levels of
contaminants in them, they offer limited health value because
processing tends to wash away important nutrients. The process of
milling organic whole grains into flour, for example, eliminates fiber
and vitamins, though they are sometimes added back in. The more a food
is processed, the less health value its organic version offers,
especially in products such as cereals and pastas with labels that say
"made with organic ingredients." Read the list of ingredients and you
might find that while the flour is organic, the eggs aren't. The
processed foods with the most added value are labeled "100% Organic"
and "USDA organic."

Don’t bother buying these items organic:

....seafood

Why: Whether caught in the wild or farmed, fish can be labeled
organic, despite the presence of contaminants such as mercury and
PCBs. Some wild fish such as bluefish are very high in PCBs, and tuna
and swordfish are laced with mercury. The USDA has not yet developed
organic certification standards for seafood. In the meantime,
producers are allowed to make their own organic claims as long as they
don’t use "USDA" or "certified organic" logos.

....cosmetics

Why: Unless a personal-care product consists primarily of organic
agricultural ingredients, such as aloe vera gel, it's pointless to buy
organic. Most cosmetics contain a mix of ingredients, and USDA
regulations allow shampoos and body lotions to carry an organic label
if their main ingredient is organic hydrosol, which is simply water in
which something organic, such as a lavender leaf, has been soaked.
While the USDA claims that organic-labeled cosmetics follow the same
standards as food, we have found indiscriminate use of synthetic
ingredients and violations of food-labeling standards. Just because a
product has the word organic or natural in its name doesn’t
necessarily mean it’s safer. Only 11% of ingredients found in
personal-care products, organic or not, have ever been screened for
safety.



--

My friends tell me I have an intimacy problem.
But they don't really know me.

....Garry Shandling

I remember a conversation with a friend of mine who swears she'll never
again buy organic broccoli. Says she tried it once, and because there
was no pesticide, the bunch was infested with so many little beasties,
she couldn't get it clean enough to cook.

Steve wrote

Excerpts from
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/f...and-doesnt.htm

Know when it pays to buy organic products to reduce your exposure
to pesticides and other additives, and when it's a waste of your money.

Its always a waste of your money, just sometimes more of a waste
of your money than otherwise in modern first world countrys.

Buy these items organic as often as possible:

...apples, bell peppers, celery, cherries, imported
grapes, nectarines, peaches, pears, potatoes,
red raspberries, spinach, and strawberries

No thanks.

Why: The US Dept of Agriculture's lab testing reveals that
even after washing, some fruits and vegetables consistently
carry much higher levels of pesticide residue than others.

I dont care.

Their conventionally grown counterparts tend to be laden with pesticides.

Lie. The USDA never said anything like that.

Among fruits, nectarines had the highest percentage testing
positive for pesticide residue. Peaches and red raspberries
had the most pesticides (nine) on a single sample. Among
vegetables, celery and spinach most often carried pesticides,
with spinach having the highest number (10) on a single sample.

I dont care.

...meat, poultry, eggs, and dairy

Why: You greatly reduce the risk of exposure to mad cow disease
and minimize exposure to other potential toxins in non-organic feed.

Drivel.

You also avoid the results of production methods that use
daily supplemental hormones and antibiotics, which have
been linked to increased antibacterial resistance in humans.

No they havent.

...baby food

Why: Children's developing bodies are especially vulnerable to toxins,

Pity there arent any 'toxins' in what is sold in first world countrys.

and they may be at risk of higher exposure. Baby food
is often made up of condensed fruits or vegetables,
potentially concentrating pesticide residues.

Pig ignorant drivel. There's never enough of those to matter.

Buy these items organic if price is no object:

No thanks.

...asparagus, avocados, bananas, broccoli, cauliflower, sweet
corn, kiwi, mangos, onions, papaya, pineapples, and sweet peas

Why: Multiple pesticide residues are rarely found on
conventionally grown versions of these fruits and vegetables.

So why bother with the organics at all, stupid ?

...breads, oils, potato chips, pasta, cereals, and other
packaged foods, such as canned or dried fruit and vegetables

Why: Although these processed products may have lower levels
of contaminants in them, they offer limited health value because
processing tends to wash away important nutrients.

More pig ignorant drivel. What makes MUCH more
sense is to buy the less processed forms of breads
etc instead if you care about 'nutrients'

The reality in the first world is that everyone gets plenty
of 'nutrients' as part of their normal diet, grossly more
than they need with most of them in fact.

The process of milling organic whole grains into
flour, for example, eliminates fiber and vitamins,
though they are sometimes added back in.

And everyone gets enough vitamins in their diet in the first world anyway.

The more a food is processed, the less health value its organic
version offers, especially in products such as cereals and
pastas with labels that say "made with organic ingredients."

More mindless pig ignorant drivel.

Read the list of ingredients and you might find
that while the flour is organic, the eggs aren't.

I dont care.

The processed foods with the most added value
are labeled "100% Organic" and "USDA organic."

Wrong again.

Don't bother buying these items organic:

...seafood

Why: Whether caught in the wild or farmed, fish can be labeled
organic, despite the presence of contaminants such as mercury
and PCBs. Some wild fish such as bluefish are very high in PCBs,
and tuna and swordfish are laced with mercury. The USDA has
not yet developed organic certification standards for seafood. In
the meantime, producers are allowed to make their own organic
claims as long as they don't use "USDA" or "certified organic" logos.

...cosmetics

Not stupid enough to bother with any of those thanks.

Why: Unless a personal-care product consists primarily of organic
agricultural ingredients, such as aloe vera gel, it's pointless to buy
organic. Most cosmetics contain a mix of ingredients, and USDA
regulations allow shampoos and body lotions to carry an organic label
if their main ingredient is organic hydrosol, which is simply water in
which something organic, such as a lavender leaf, has been soaked.
While the USDA claims that organic-labeled cosmetics follow the same
standards as food, we have found indiscriminate use of synthetic
ingredients and violations of food-labeling standards. Just because a
product has the word organic or natural in its name doesn't necessarily
mean it's safer. Only 11% of ingredients found in personal-care
products, organic or not, have ever been screened for safety.

Beeblebrox wrote:

I remember a conversation with a friend of mine who swears she'll never
again buy organic broccoli. Says she tried it once, and because there
was no pesticide, the bunch was infested with so many little beasties,
she couldn't get it clean enough to cook.

You haven't lived 'til you've chomped down on a cabbage worm. BTDT.
It wasn't quite as bitter as the bee in some canned spinach I once
had.

In article b1%wf.70078$4l5.46313@dukeread05,
Beeblebrox wrote:

I remember a conversation with a friend of mine who swears she'll never
again buy organic broccoli. Says she tried it once, and because there
was no pesticide, the bunch was infested with so many little beasties,
she couldn't get it clean enough to cook.

Whatever did people _do_ before pesticides came into common usage?

Those of us who buy organic vegetables like broccoli and cabbage
know to soak it in a salt-water solution for a few minutes to loosen
the unwanted visitors.

BTW, there _are_ "pesticides" which can be used to protect
vegetables against insect infestation, including pepper spray,
marigold teas, etc.

sd

_.-In rec.food.cooking, Rod Speed wrote the following -._
And everyone gets enough vitamins in their diet in the first world anyway.

That is a very big brush you have there. Care to paint me a picture
that supports that claim?

--
.-')) fauxascii.com ('-. | It's a damn poor mind that
' ..- .:" ) ( ":. -.. ' | can only think of one way to
((,,_;'.;' UIN=66618055 ';. ';_,,)) | spell a word.
((_.YIM=Faux_Pseudo :._)) | - Andrew Jackson

me wrote:
Beeblebrox wrote

I remember a conversation with a friend of mine who swears
she'll never again buy organic broccoli. Says she tried it once,
and because there was no pesticide, the bunch was infested
with so many little beasties, she couldn't get it clean enough to cook.

Whatever did people _do_ before pesticides came into common usage?

Put up with bug and weavil infested food.

Those of us who buy organic vegetables like broccoli
and cabbage know to soak it in a salt-water solution
for a few minutes to loosen the unwanted visitors.

BTW, there _are_ "pesticides" which can be used
to protect vegetables against insect infestation,
including pepper spray, marigold teas, etc.

Pity they're so useless.

me wrote:
In article b1%wf.70078$4l5.46313@dukeread05,
Beeblebrox wrote:

I remember a conversation with a friend of mine who swears she'll never
again buy organic broccoli. Says she tried it once, and because there
was no pesticide, the bunch was infested with so many little beasties,
she couldn't get it clean enough to cook.

Whatever did people _do_ before pesticides came into common usage?

Those of us who buy organic vegetables like broccoli and cabbage
know to soak it in a salt-water solution for a few minutes to loosen
the unwanted visitors.

BTW, there _are_ "pesticides" which can be used to protect
vegetables against insect infestation, including pepper spray,
marigold teas, etc.

sd

when I had vegetable gardens I rarely did anything for pesticides, organic or
otherwise. My neighbors were always crazy with them and I think it drove all
the spiders to my yard or something. I had a crazy spider population, all
shapes and sizes and I never really had to worry about other bugs. Of course
it made harvesting a bit of an adventure....

--
..:Heather:.
www.velvet-c.com
Step off, beyotches, I'm the roflpimp!

at Wed, 11 Jan 2006 03:35:00 GMT in b1%wf.70078$4l5.46313@dukeread05,
(Beeblebrox) wrote :

I remember a conversation with a friend of mine who swears she'll never
again buy organic broccoli. Says she tried it once, and because there
was no pesticide, the bunch was infested with so many little beasties,
she couldn't get it clean enough to cook.

Sounds like she had a one-time bad experience, but I've not encountered
much organic broccoli these days that has had those types of issues. There
was a time in the past when for organic people had to put up with low-
grade, bug-infested, semi-eaten items, but this is generally not the case
anymore. The popularity of organic farming has driven rapid progress in
understanding and careful cultivation.

It must be said, however, that for best results you should buy organic
items in season. Out-of season organics are likely to be much worse than
their out-of-season conventional brethren, generally shrivelled, tasteless,
etc. Furthermore the price premium for out-of-season organic becomes truly
disproportionate, as compared to in-season differences when organic items
are often close to competitive with conventional on price. So if you are to
go with organic, this implies also a commitment to eating seasonally, and
probably locally as well.

Nonetheless, the argument generally comes down to a question of whether or
not the value of organic is worth the extra price. Some people believe that
no amount of benefits from organics could justify the cost. Others say that
no reduction in cost could justify the negatives of conventional farming.
Certainly one can't expect organic to come for free. If there is any extra
value in it, then that value will come at a commensurate price. Much of the
organic movement argues that conventional foods are actually coming at an
artificially low price - that in using unsustainable methods they are
selling products in the short term cheaply, but that sooner or later the
chickens will come home to roost, so to speak, and then prices will rise
anyway. In this argument the price of organic merely reflects real costs of
sustainable production. As it actually happens, there is some inflation
going on as well, because the organic core consumers are prepared to pay
above market value for what they're getting. In some cases this means
egregious overpricing, but in other cases it doesn't, so organic items
aren't automatically a rip-off - it depends entirely on how much value you
see in them. The arguments of the organic camp, therefore, aren't
unassailable, but neither are they irrational. Same thing for the
conventional camp. It's a pure matter of priorities: price versus benefits?

--
Alex Rast

(remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)

"Alex Rast" wrote in message
...
In some cases this means
egregious overpricing, but in other cases it doesn't, so organic items
aren't automatically a rip-off - it depends entirely on how much value you
see in them.

Alex Rast

And it depends a lot on how 'many' people see value in organic produce,
because many times in a market that I shop that is most convenient, the
small amount of organic produce that is available will just sit and rot. I
find that the price for the organic food at this particular store is not out
of line in comparison to their conventional items, which IMO is very high in
price. However, organic is becoming more prevalent, and to be fair, their
conventional produce sometimes ranks pretty close to 'throw away' also.

The other day there was no Italian parsley available; usually there is a
choice between organic and conventional. The produce person went to the
back of the store and brought out a box that was maybe 1/4 full and said
'this is all we have.' I took out a bunch, and he returned the 1/4 box of
parsley to the produce room from whence he came. He had no clue as to the
price, nor did I press him for a price.

I also saw some loose leaf greens that they had on sale for 2 bunches for a
dollar. Geez, I guess it is supposed to be for pet rabbits, it was pretty
darned old.

I'll buy organic, but I'll not generally pay Whole Foods prices across the
board for it; specials, yes, if the produce looks good.
Dee Dee

Alex Rast wrote
(Beeblebrox) wrote

I remember a conversation with a friend of mine who swears she'll
never again buy organic broccoli. Says she tried it once, and
because there was no pesticide, the bunch was infested with so many
little beasties, she couldn't get it clean enough to cook.

Sounds like she had a one-time bad experience, but I've not
encountered much organic broccoli these days that has had those types
of issues. There was a time in the past when for organic people had
to put up with low- grade, bug-infested, semi-eaten items, but this
is generally not the case anymore. The popularity of organic farming
has driven rapid progress in understanding and careful cultivation.

It must be said, however, that for best results you should buy organic
items in season. Out-of season organics are likely to be much worse
than their out-of-season conventional brethren, generally shrivelled,
tasteless, etc. Furthermore the price premium for out-of-season
organic becomes truly disproportionate, as compared to in-season
differences when organic items are often close to competitive with
conventional on price. So if you are to go with organic, this implies
also a commitment to eating seasonally, and probably locally as well.

Nonetheless, the argument generally comes down to a question of
whether or not the value of organic is worth the extra price. Some
people believe that no amount of benefits from organics could justify
the cost. Others say that no reduction in cost could justify the
negatives of conventional farming. Certainly one can't expect organic
to come for free. If there is any extra value in it, then that value
will come at a commensurate price. Much of the organic movement
argues that conventional foods are actually coming at an artificially
low price - that in using unsustainable methods they are selling
products in the short term cheaply, but that sooner or later the chickens
will come home to roost, so to speak, and then prices will rise anyway.

Mindless silly stuff. Wont happen, you watch.

In this argument the price of organic merely
reflects real costs of sustainable production.

More mindless silly stuff.

As it actually happens, there is some inflation going on as
well, because the organic core consumers are prepared to
pay above market value for what they're getting. In some
cases this means egregious overpricing, but in other cases
it doesn't, so organic items aren't automatically a rip-off -
it depends entirely on how much value you see in them. The
arguments of the organic camp, therefore, aren't unassailable,
but neither are they irrational.

Yes they are, most obviously with that
terminally silly claim about prices rising.

Same thing for the conventional camp. It's a
pure matter of priorities: price versus benefits?

No evidence of any 'benefits' with 'organics, they're a complete wank.

Steve wrote:
Excerpts from
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/f...and-doesnt.htm

Buy these items organic as often as possible:

...apples, bell peppers, celery, cherries, imported grapes,
nectarines, peaches, pears, potatoes, red raspberries, spinach, and
strawberries

I once took a bite from an organic apple.....about to take a 2nd
bite...noticed a worm...then noticed it was only *half* a worm....

More & more they're using systemic pesticides (absorbed thru
roots/leaves), there's no "washing" off.

Pesticide triva: Calif. strawberries are No.1. (Yay)
No.1 in pounds per acre of pesticides, iirc over 300, I think it is.
My fav, broccoli was only at 50, or so.

french fry trivia: McDonalds potatoes (for fries), already saturated
with pesticides, are given an xtra dose just b-4 harvest to prevent the
black spotting. (no wonder they're so costly)


Buy these items organic if price is no object:

...asparagus, avocados, bananas, broccoli, cauliflower, sweet corn,
kiwi, mangos, onions, papaya, pineapples, and sweet peas

Why: Multiple pesticide residues are rarely found on conventionally
grown versions of these fruits and vegetables.

Oh really??? How about if they're imported from Mexico/Central America.
We get lots of their veggies/fruits in the Wintertime. They're only
tested for a few pesticides. If they do find a contaminated
batch....well, tough apples...they'll already have been eaten.


...seafood

Some wild fish such as bluefish are very high in PCBs,
and tuna and swordfish are laced with mercury.

Strange, they overlook the fact that farm-raised fish, esp- salmon are
very high in PCB's.

Rod Speed wrote:

Steve wrote


Excerpts from
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/f...and-doesnt.htm


Know when it pays to buy organic products to reduce your exposure
to pesticides and other additives, and when it's a waste of your money.


Its always a waste of your money, just sometimes more of a waste
of your money than otherwise in modern first world countrys.


Buy these items organic as often as possible:


...apples, bell peppers, celery, cherries, imported
grapes, nectarines, peaches, pears, potatoes,
red raspberries, spinach, and strawberries


No thanks.


Why: The US Dept of Agriculture's lab testing reveals that
even after washing, some fruits and vegetables consistently
carry much higher levels of pesticide residue than others.


I dont care.


You say you don't care several times but you obviously care enough to
post a long response that is full of inaccuracies and pure BS. It takes
a real talent to get so many things wrong all at once, but you managed
to do it.

Peter

Beeblebrox wrote:
I remember a conversation with a friend of mine who swears she'll never
again buy organic broccoli. Says she tried it once, and because there
was no pesticide, the bunch was infested with so many little beasties,
she couldn't get it clean enough to cook.

Yaknow, I understand the squick factor, but when you step back and look
at it in the Grand Scheme o' Things, the bugs are probably a lot
healthier to eat than the pesticides.

P.Aitken wrote:

You say you don't care several times but you obviously care enough to
post a long response that is full of inaccuracies and pure BS. It takes
a real talent to get so many things wrong all at once, but you managed
to do it.

It's always fascinating when, through the miracle of cross-posted
threads, the rest of the world is introduced to the Wonder Which Is Rod
Speed.