Calling a Christmas tree a holiday tree is like calling a Menorah a
candelabrum. The Christmas tree has been a symbol of the Christmas
season since the 16th century, although it didn't catch on in the
United States until much later. I find it to be offensive against my
religion when people refer to a Christmas tree as a holiday tree. I
don't know of any other holiday in which you decorate a tree with
lights and ornaments. I have no problem with store owners telling
their employees not to say "Merry Christmas", personally I think a
thank you and come back is good enough for me, but I do have a problem
with stores labeling Christmas decorations as holiday decorations. I'm
refusing to shop at any store that insists on labeling their Christmas
items as holiday items.

On 4 Dec 2005 00:01:58 -0800, "djs0302" wrote:

Calling a Christmas tree a holiday tree is like calling a Menorah a
candelabrum. The Christmas tree has been a symbol of the Christmas
season since the 16th century, although it didn't catch on in the
United States until much later. I find it to be offensive against my
religion when people refer to a Christmas tree as a holiday tree. I
don't know of any other holiday in which you decorate a tree with
lights and ornaments. I have no problem with store owners telling
their employees not to say "Merry Christmas", personally I think a
thank you and come back is good enough for me, but I do have a problem
with stores labeling Christmas decorations as holiday decorations. I'm
refusing to shop at any store that insists on labeling their Christmas
items as holiday items.

Actually, the bringing evergreens inside at the midwinter solstice
predates Christianity by quite a bit. The use of candles and such
symbolizes the hope for the return of the sun. They are hardly
Christian customs, although they have been adopted, or co opted, as
such.

Regards,
ravinwulf

"djs0302" wrote in message
oups.com...
Calling a Christmas tree a holiday tree is like calling a Menorah a
candelabrum. The Christmas tree has been a symbol of the Christmas
season since the 16th century, although it didn't catch on in the
United States until much later. I find it to be offensive against my
religion when people refer to a Christmas tree as a holiday tree. I
don't know of any other holiday in which you decorate a tree with
lights and ornaments. I have no problem with store owners telling
their employees not to say "Merry Christmas", personally I think a
thank you and come back is good enough for me, but I do have a problem
with stores labeling Christmas decorations as holiday decorations. I'm
refusing to shop at any store that insists on labeling their Christmas
items as holiday items.


Oh great. Another self-proclaimed Christian victim whining about the
failure of society to respect his pagan idolatry. Well take heart you poor,
persecuted person. Easter will soon be upon us and you can rejoice in the
resurrection by painting chicken eggs and handing them out while wearing a
bunny costume.

Oh, wait...!

Paul

Paul M. Cook wrote:
"djs0302" wrote in message
oups.com...

Calling a Christmas tree a holiday tree is like calling a Menorah a
candelabrum.

A menorah *is* a candelabrum.

The Christmas tree has been a symbol of the Christmas
season since the 16th century, although it didn't catch on in the
United States until much later. I find it to be offensive against my
religion when people refer to a Christmas tree as a holiday tree.

Grow the hell up. If you need to find things to be offended about,
there's a hell of a lot more that should be occupying your thoughts than
a freakin tree. Like millions of people in fairly desperate straits
because of natural disasters. Or a pointless war in the middle east. Or
the balance of trade and deficits. Or ignorance and illiteracy, not to
put too fine a point on it.

Buy a cheapie little tree and give the rest of the money to the
Salvation Army or somebody else who will do something Christian with it.
Christianity isn't about decorations.

I
don't know of any other holiday in which you decorate a tree with
lights and ornaments.

LOL You must have missed the big August holiday where oak trees are
decorated with old bathing suits and sunglasses to signal the end of the
summer season. Trees are decorated with those yellow buglights because
there are still mosquitoes around, you know...

I have no problem with store owners telling
their employees not to say "Merry Christmas", personally I think a
thank you and come back is good enough for me, but I do have a problem
with stores labeling Christmas decorations as holiday decorations. I'm
refusing to shop at any store that insists on labeling their Christmas
items as holiday items.

LOL Such amazing white-lipped tension for such a trivial reason.
Nothing else to complain about, I guess...

Oh great. Another self-proclaimed Christian victim whining about the
failure of society to respect his pagan idolatry. Well take heart you poor,
persecuted person. Easter will soon be upon us and you can rejoice in the
resurrection by painting chicken eggs and handing them out while wearing a
bunny costume.

Oh, wait...!

Right. Like there isn't enough to whine about, it's suddenly necessary
to worry about what other people call a freakin tree. And to imbue it
with all that religious claptrap when it's just a tree with stuff
hanging on it. A freakin tree...

It's a pagan symbol appropriated by Christianity. It has nothing to do
with anything religious. It's precisely a holiday icon. Nothing more.

Your Christianity is pretty shaky if you think it comes down to a
freakin tree. Get over it.

Pastorio

On 4 Dec 2005 00:01:58 -0800, "djs0302" wrote:

Calling a Christmas tree a holiday tree is like calling a Menorah a
candelabrum. The Christmas tree has been a symbol of the Christmas
season since the 16th century, although it didn't catch on in the
United States until much later. I find it to be offensive against my
religion when people refer to a Christmas tree as a holiday tree. I
don't know of any other holiday in which you decorate a tree with
lights and ornaments. I have no problem with store owners telling
their employees not to say "Merry Christmas", personally I think a
thank you and come back is good enough for me, but I do have a problem
with stores labeling Christmas decorations as holiday decorations. I'm
refusing to shop at any store that insists on labeling their Christmas
items as holiday items.

What I find offensive is the senseless deaths of millions of trees
each year to satisfy people's desire for tradition. We stick a
pine-scented air freshener under our artificial tree. And burn a
bayberry candle. But that's just us.

Carol
--

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/head_trollop/my_photos

Damsel in dis Dress wrote:

What I find offensive is the senseless deaths of millions of trees
each year to satisfy people's desire for tradition.

Don't have to kill them - buy a plantatble one.
We stick a
pine-scented air freshener under our artificial tree.

shudder

And burn a
bayberry candle. But that's just us.

Carol

Trees are a renewable resource and for the most part in the PNW, where
most of the trees are grown, are managed quite well. That being said,
most of the local tree farms here that I see in the PNW are lots owned
by "Gentleman Farmers" who use the tree farm as an excuse for a farm
tax write-off. What I think is *truly* sad is the needless slaughter
of thousands of Mountain Beaver - a species only found here - by
corporate tree farms to "protect" their investments. Slaughtering has
little effect on Mountain Beaver populations, yet the do it anyway.
http://infowright.com/mtbeaver/

-L.

djs0302 wrote:
Calling a Christmas tree a holiday tree is like calling a Menorah a
candelabrum. The Christmas tree has been a symbol of the Christmas
season since the 16th century, although it didn't catch on in the
United States until much later. I find it to be offensive against my
religion when people refer to a Christmas tree as a holiday tree. I
don't know of any other holiday in which you decorate a tree with
lights and ornaments.

Seeing how it was a Pagan tradition long before the X-ians stole the
idea, I think your full of shit. I am so sick of this "Christians are
persecuted" crap. Yeah, Christians are really persecuted: [Stealing a
diatribe from another ng (my apologies to Rabbit - it's just a classic]

"Let's see. It's Sunday morning, and if I turn on my television, I sure
have
to go a long way to find something that isn't fire-and-brimstone
preaching.
Let's count all the Muslim, Buddhist and Jewish shows on television.

If I go to the mall, I can buy a Jesus-themed Christmas card,
Jesus-theme
Christmas ornament, a Bible, any one of hundreds of books on
Christianity,
crap by Thomas Kinkade, or I can go to the jewellery store and buy a
cross
in just about any price range.

I can send that Christmas card through the mail, and in December I can
stick
a Christmas-themed stamp on it.

I can go to a church in any state in the Union. I can try to find a
city or
town that doesn't have a church, without much luck.

I can put a Christian-themed bumper sticker on my car, wear a
Christian-themed T-shirt, put a Christian-themed sign on my front lawn,
and
put up religious symbols in and around my house without anyone
arresting me
for it.

I can stand on a street corner and as long as I don't break any laws
that
apply to everyone, I can tell you about the Word of God. I can knock on
your
door to tell you. I can call your house to tell you. And if I get
arrested,
it isn't because of my message, it's because of my behavior.

Persecuted my ****ing ass." --Rabbit.

That about sums it up.
-L.

ravinwulf wrote:
On 4 Dec 2005 00:01:58 -0800, "djs0302" wrote:

Calling a Christmas tree a holiday tree is like calling a Menorah a
candelabrum. The Christmas tree has been a symbol of the Christmas
season since the 16th century, although it didn't catch on in the
United States until much later. I find it to be offensive against my
religion when people refer to a Christmas tree as a holiday tree. I
don't know of any other holiday in which you decorate a tree with
lights and ornaments. (snippage)

Actually, the bringing evergreens inside at the midwinter solstice
predates Christianity by quite a bit. The use of candles and such
symbolizes the hope for the return of the sun. They are hardly
Christian customs, although they have been adopted, or co opted, as
such.

Regards,
ravinwulf

You're absolutely right Many other festivals, as well. Damn Romans LOL

"-L." wrote

Trees are a renewable resource and for the most part in the PNW, where
most of the trees are grown, are managed quite well. That being said,
most of the local tree farms here that I see in the PNW are lots owned
by "Gentleman Farmers" who use the tree farm as an excuse for a farm
tax write-off.

True. I live maybe 4 blocks from a Christmas tree farm, every year
we walk around and pick out our tree, they cut it down and put it in
your car. Nice little thing to do. Guy does it as a hobby, and here's the
real deal ... if it wasn't a Christmas tree farm, guess what it would be?
A house farm. This way the property is preserved. I think they've put
it into a farm preservation program, but that's another story. Thing is,
walking around you have to watch out you don't step on the little saplings
they planted to make new Christmas trees.

So I don't feel badly about it.

nancy

djs0302 wrote:
Calling a Christmas tree a holiday tree is like calling a Menorah a
candelabrum. The Christmas tree has been a symbol of the Christmas
season since the 16th century, although it didn't catch on in the
United States until much later. I find it to be offensive against my
religion when people refer to a Christmas tree as a holiday tree. I
don't know of any other holiday in which you decorate a tree with
lights and ornaments. I have no problem with store owners telling
their employees not to say "Merry Christmas", personally I think a
thank you and come back is good enough for me, but I do have a problem
with stores labeling Christmas decorations as holiday decorations. I'm
refusing to shop at any store that insists on labeling their Christmas
items as holiday items.


somehow, I don't think that calling it a "solstice tree", however
factually accurate, is going to catch on.

--

saerah

"Peace is not an absence of war, it is a virtue, a state of mind, a
disposition for benevolence, confidence, justice."
-Baruch Spinoza

"There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly
what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear
and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There
is another theory which states that this has already happened."
-Douglas Adams

Bob (this one) wrote:
Paul M. Cook wrote:

"djs0302" wrote in message
oups.com...

Calling a Christmas tree a holiday tree is like calling a Menorah a
candelabrum.


A menorah *is* a candelabrum.


It's not really a menorah, either. The candelabrum that is used on
Chanukah is a chanukiah (9 candles, not 7)

The Christmas tree has been a symbol of the Christmas
season since the 16th century, although it didn't catch on in the
United States until much later. I find it to be offensive against my
religion when people refer to a Christmas tree as a holiday tree.


Grow the hell up. If you need to find things to be offended about,
there's a hell of a lot more that should be occupying your thoughts than
a freakin tree. Like millions of people in fairly desperate straits
because of natural disasters. Or a pointless war in the middle east. Or
the balance of trade and deficits. Or ignorance and illiteracy, not to
put too fine a point on it.

Buy a cheapie little tree and give the rest of the money to the
Salvation Army or somebody else who will do something Christian with it.
Christianity isn't about decorations.


Nope, it's about guilt. Like many other religions.

snip

--

saerah

"Peace is not an absence of war, it is a virtue, a state of mind, a
disposition for benevolence, confidence, justice."
-Baruch Spinoza

"There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly
what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear
and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There
is another theory which states that this has already happened."
-Douglas Adams

Damsel in dis Dress wrote:
On 4 Dec 2005 00:01:58 -0800, "djs0302" wrote:


Calling a Christmas tree a holiday tree is like calling a Menorah a
candelabrum. The Christmas tree has been a symbol of the Christmas
season since the 16th century, although it didn't catch on in the
United States until much later. I find it to be offensive against my
religion when people refer to a Christmas tree as a holiday tree. I
don't know of any other holiday in which you decorate a tree with
lights and ornaments. I have no problem with store owners telling
their employees not to say "Merry Christmas", personally I think a
thank you and come back is good enough for me, but I do have a problem
with stores labeling Christmas decorations as holiday decorations. I'm
refusing to shop at any store that insists on labeling their Christmas
items as holiday items.


What I find offensive is the senseless deaths of millions of trees
each year to satisfy people's desire for tradition. We stick a
pine-scented air freshener under our artificial tree. And burn a
bayberry candle. But that's just us.

Carol

That is what we do. One day when we have a house and a yard I might see
if I can find a small evergreen we can keep alive and then put outside
after the holidays. The whole reason evergreen is used is because those
celebrating the solstice saw it as a symbol of life renewing, even at
the coldest, darkest part of the year. (Light returning, their God being
reborn, that sort of stuff)

--

saerah

"Peace is not an absence of war, it is a virtue, a state of mind, a
disposition for benevolence, confidence, justice."
-Baruch Spinoza

"There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly
what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear
and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There
is another theory which states that this has already happened."
-Douglas Adams

sarah bennett wrote:
djs0302 wrote:

Calling a Christmas tree a holiday tree is like calling a Menorah a
candelabrum. The Christmas tree has been a symbol of the Christmas
season since the 16th century, although it didn't catch on in the
United States until much later. I find it to be offensive against my
religion when people refer to a Christmas tree as a holiday tree. I
don't know of any other holiday in which you decorate a tree with
lights and ornaments. I have no problem with store owners telling
their employees not to say "Merry Christmas", personally I think a
thank you and come back is good enough for me, but I do have a problem
with stores labeling Christmas decorations as holiday decorations. I'm
refusing to shop at any store that insists on labeling their Christmas
items as holiday items.


somehow, I don't think that calling it a "solstice tree", however
factually accurate, is going to catch on.

How about "Tannenbaum?"

"A Tannenbaum is a fir tree (German die Tanne) or Christmas tree (der
Weihnachtsbaum)."

Or maybe Weihnachtsbaum. Falls trippingly off the tongue, doncha think?

Everybody sing! "Ach Tannenbaum, ach Tannenbaum, du bist ein edler
Zweig! Du grünest uns den Winter, die liebe Sommerzeit. La la la la, hm,
hm, hm, da da da..."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O_Tannenbaum

Pastorio

Paul M. Cook wrote:
"djs0302" wrote:
Calling a Christmas tree a holiday tree is like calling a Menorah a
candelabrum. The Christmas tree has been a symbol of the Christmas
season since the 16th century, although it didn't catch on in the
United States until much later. I find it to be offensive against my
religion when people refer to a Christmas tree as a holiday tree. I
don't know of any other holiday in which you decorate a tree with
lights and ornaments. I have no problem with store owners telling
their employees not to say "Merry Christmas", personally I think a
thank you and come back is good enough for me, but I do have a problem
with stores labeling Christmas decorations as holiday decorations. I'm
refusing to shop at any store that insists on labeling their Christmas
items as holiday items.


Oh great. Another self-proclaimed Christian victim whining about the
failure of society to respect his pagan idolatry. Well take heart you poor,
persecuted person. Easter will soon be upon us and you can rejoice in the
resurrection by painting chicken eggs and handing them out while wearing a
bunny costume.

Oh, wait...!

Paul

And you dare call yourself "Paul"... wussy hypocrite *******.


M-W

Paul

noun
Etymology: Latin Paulus, from Greek Paulos: an early Christian apostle
and missionary and author of several New Testament epistles
---

Sheldon

-L. wrote:
Damsel in dis Dress wrote:

What I find offensive is the senseless deaths of millions of trees
each year to satisfy people's desire for tradition.

Don't have to kill them - buy a plantatble one.
We stick a
pine-scented air freshener under our artificial tree.

shudder

And burn a
bayberry candle. But that's just us.

Carol

Trees are a renewable resource and for the most part in the PNW, where
most of the trees are grown, are managed quite well. That being said,
most of the local tree farms here that I see in the PNW are lots owned
by "Gentleman Farmers" who use the tree farm as an excuse for a farm
tax write-off. What I think is *truly* sad is the needless slaughter
of thousands of Mountain Beaver - a species only found here - by
corporate tree farms to "protect" their investments. Slaughtering has
little effect on Mountain Beaver populations, yet they do it anyway.
http://infowright.com/mtbeaver/

Hmm, is Mountain Beaver what I think it is.. no, wait... it's tailess!
hehe

Sheldon Deliverance