I understand that acidic foods should not be cooked in aluminum, but
I've never seen any solid information on exactly what level of acidity
makes for problems.

Question: What's the minimum PH (i.e. maximum acidity) acceptable
for cooking in aluminum vessels. Bonus points for pointing
out an authoritative reference.

Thanks, and Happy 4th o' July.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

I think a quick sauté of just about anything would be fine, but not a
long-simmered stew or braise with a tomato sauce, or in vinegar.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Louis Cohen
Living la vida loca at N37° 43' 7.9" W122° 8' 42.8"


"Reg" wrote in message
. ..
I understand that acidic foods should not be cooked in aluminum, but
I've never seen any solid information on exactly what level of acidity
makes for problems.

Question: What's the minimum PH (i.e. maximum acidity) acceptable
for cooking in aluminum vessels. Bonus points for pointing
out an authoritative reference.

Thanks, and Happy 4th o' July.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

Louis Cohen wrote:

I think a quick sauté of just about anything would be fine, but not a
long-simmered stew or braise with a tomato sauce, or in vinegar.

Thanks Louis. You also bring up the important point
that time is probably also part of the equation.

I'm hoping I can find some info referring to specific
PH levels....

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

I haven't seen aluminium cooking saucepans or frypans for a very long
time (except in second-hand charity shops). I cook rhubarb very
slowly (poaching really) and was always told never to use aluminium,
so before the days of stainless steel (when was that? about 45 years
ago?) I used an enamel saucepan.

So this sort of warning has been around a long time I guess. I have
a daughter who uses a large aluminium cooking pot but I think only for
soup these days.

Kim wrote:

I haven't seen aluminium cooking saucepans or frypans for a very long
time (except in second-hand charity shops).

Then you haven't been in restaurant kitchens. As a balance point for
safety, utility and cost, aluminum is far and away the best to buy.
Since that foolishness about Alzheimer's was so thoroughly
discredited, even that silly specter is gone.

Aluminum is the most plentiful metal on earth and we eat some every
time we eat. It's in virtually every food. No deleterious effects have
been discovered from ingestion of aluminum in the quantities we
routinely eat or even multiples of those amounts.

I cook rhubarb very
slowly (poaching really) and was always told never to use aluminium,
so before the days of stainless steel (when was that? about 45 years
ago?) I used an enamel saucepan.

So this sort of warning has been around a long time I guess. I have
a daughter who uses a large aluminium cooking pot but I think only for
soup these days.

Apples and oranges.

First, there's no health issue with aluminum except from the fringy
wackos who think science is about bubbly test tubes in movies.

Second, cooking with acid foods in aluminum can change the color of
the food. Don't want to do a Hollandaise sauce in aluminum because it
changes the color. Tastes the same, just isn't as pretty.

There's no "warning" about it. It a recognition of some chemical
properties that aluminum has in certain specific applications. There's
no good reason not to do the rhubarb in aluminum.

Pastorio

Reg wrote:

I understand that acidic foods should not be cooked in aluminum, but
I've never seen any solid information on exactly what level of acidity
makes for problems.

What "problems" have you been told about?

Pastorio

Question: What's the minimum PH (i.e. maximum acidity) acceptable
for cooking in aluminum vessels. Bonus points for pointing
out an authoritative reference.

Thanks, and Happy 4th o' July.

Bob (this one) wrote:

Reg wrote:

I understand that acidic foods should not be cooked in aluminum, but
I've never seen any solid information on exactly what level of acidity
makes for problems.


What "problems" have you been told about?

That high acidity foods will react with the aluminum and produce off
flavors...

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

Reg wrote:

Bob (this one) wrote:

Reg wrote:

I understand that acidic foods should not be cooked in aluminum, but
I've never seen any solid information on exactly what level of acidity
makes for problems.

What "problems" have you been told about?

That high acidity foods will react with the aluminum and produce off
flavors...

Gotta be pretty acid for quite a while. Color will change before
flavor if it's pale like an egg sauce with lemon or vinegar.
Otherwise, the acid foods will inside of the pot very nicely. lol

We used to make our tomato sauce for my restaurants in 40-quart pots
every day. No issues and not one problem from staff or public. If you
were reducing vinegar, maybe a glass or enamel pot. Stainless would
scar (ask me how I know...). For anything but the more extremely acid
foods, aluminum is fine. Or extremely alkaline (but I can't think of one).

Pastorio

On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 03:55:25 GMT, Reg wrote:

Louis Cohen wrote:

I think a quick sauté of just about anything would be fine, but not a
long-simmered stew or braise with a tomato sauce, or in vinegar.

Thanks Louis. You also bring up the important point
that time is probably also part of the equation.

I'm hoping I can find some info referring to specific
PH levels....


google is your friend :

http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ult.../Aluminum.html
http://www.usc.edu/CSSF/History/2002/Projects/J0520.pdf

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

I think I've heard that cooking (or storing) acid foods (like tomato sauces)
in aluminum can introduce off-flavors. Somehow, iron (from a cast iron pan
or Dutch oven or steel wok) seems more appetizing (and is necessary to one's
diet) than aluminum.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Louis Cohen
Living la vida loca at N37° 43' 7.9" W122° 8' 42.8"


"Bob (this one)" wrote in message
...
Kim wrote:

I haven't seen aluminium cooking saucepans or frypans for a very long
time (except in second-hand charity shops).

Then you haven't been in restaurant kitchens. As a balance point for
safety, utility and cost, aluminum is far and away the best to buy.
Since that foolishness about Alzheimer's was so thoroughly
discredited, even that silly specter is gone.

Aluminum is the most plentiful metal on earth and we eat some every
time we eat. It's in virtually every food. No deleterious effects have
been discovered from ingestion of aluminum in the quantities we
routinely eat or even multiples of those amounts.

I cook rhubarb very
slowly (poaching really) and was always told never to use aluminium,
so before the days of stainless steel (when was that? about 45 years
ago?) I used an enamel saucepan.

So this sort of warning has been around a long time I guess. I have
a daughter who uses a large aluminium cooking pot but I think only for
soup these days.

Apples and oranges.

First, there's no health issue with aluminum except from the fringy
wackos who think science is about bubbly test tubes in movies.

Second, cooking with acid foods in aluminum can change the color of
the food. Don't want to do a Hollandaise sauce in aluminum because it
changes the color. Tastes the same, just isn't as pretty.

There's no "warning" about it. It a recognition of some chemical
properties that aluminum has in certain specific applications. There's
no good reason not to do the rhubarb in aluminum.

Pastorio

Curly Sue wrote:

google is your friend :


Ah, a search engine. What a great idea.

http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ult.../Aluminum.html
http://www.usc.edu/CSSF/History/2002/Projects/J0520.pdf

You're not even close, but thanks.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 20:48:28 GMT, Reg wrote:

Curly Sue wrote:

google is your friend :


Ah, a search engine. What a great idea.

http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ult.../Aluminum.html
http://www.usc.edu/CSSF/History/2002/Projects/J0520.pdf

You're not even close, but thanks.

Try Ask a Scientist:
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/webpag.../chem00364.htm

I suspect that the authoritative answer you'll get is that there is no
answer to your question, it depends on the particular food, the
studies haven't been done, etc.

You're welcome.

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

Louis Cohen wrote:

I think I've heard that cooking (or storing) acid foods (like
tomato sauces) in aluminum can introduce off-flavors.

You *think* you've *heard*...?

Have you tested the idea at all?

Didn't think so.

"Introduce off flavors." Whatever that could mean. Scotty beams them
into pots while you sleep.

Somehow, iron (from a cast iron pan or Dutch oven or steel wok)
seems more appetizing (and is necessary to one's diet) than
aluminum.

And it's so good for the pan, too. If you eat a normal sort of diet,
you get all the iron you need. More isn't necessarily good and can be bad.

There is no demonstrated need in human nutrition for aluminum. That
also applies to most elements.

Pastorio

On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 19:24:28 -0400, "Bob (this one)"
wrote:

I think I've heard that cooking (or storing) acid foods (like
tomato sauces) in aluminum can introduce off-flavors.

You *think* you've *heard*...?

Have you tested the idea at all?

Didn't think so.

Howdy,

I cooked tomato sauce in an aluminum camping pot and left the residue
to be cleaned the following morning...

The sauce ate through the pan. I mean that literally. There were at
least a dozen extremely small holes in the pan about twelve hours
after I had used it.

'Can't say that it affected the taste though...

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Kenneth wrote:

On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 19:24:28 -0400, "Bob (this one)"
wrote:

I think I've heard that cooking (or storing) acid foods (like
tomato sauces) in aluminum can introduce off-flavors.

You *think* you've *heard*...?

Have you tested the idea at all?

Didn't think so.

Howdy,

I cooked tomato sauce in an aluminum camping pot and left the residue
to be cleaned the following morning...

The sauce ate through the pan. I mean that literally. There were at
least a dozen extremely small holes in the pan about twelve hours
after I had used it.

'Can't say that it affected the taste though...

Yep. I've seen that same sort of etching in my home pots (which are
considerably thicker) from the same sort of, um, kitchen habits. Er,
wait. I've *read* about that happening. Yes. Read about it.

I suspect the pot wasn't exactly pristine when you first set out to
cook the sauce. But, neither here nor there, acids will etch and
finally dissolve aluminum. And iron. And copper. And...

The OP was about the taste and some vaguenesses...

Pastorio