I understand that acidic foods should not be cooked in aluminum, but
I've never seen any solid information on exactly what level of acidity
makes for problems.

Question: What's the minimum PH (i.e. maximum acidity) acceptable
for cooking in aluminum vessels. Bonus points for pointing
out an authoritative reference.

Thanks, and Happy 4th o' July.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

I think a quick sauté of just about anything would be fine, but not a
long-simmered stew or braise with a tomato sauce, or in vinegar.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Louis Cohen
Living la vida loca at N37° 43' 7.9" W122° 8' 42.8"


"Reg" > wrote in message
. ..
> I understand that acidic foods should not be cooked in aluminum, but
> I've never seen any solid information on exactly what level of acidity
> makes for problems.
>
> Question: What's the minimum PH (i.e. maximum acidity) acceptable
> for cooking in aluminum vessels. Bonus points for pointing
> out an authoritative reference.
>
> Thanks, and Happy 4th o' July.
>
> --
> Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com
>

Louis Cohen wrote:

> I think a quick sauté of just about anything would be fine, but not a
> long-simmered stew or braise with a tomato sauce, or in vinegar.

Thanks Louis. You also bring up the important point
that time is probably also part of the equation.

I'm hoping I can find some info referring to specific
PH levels....

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

I haven't seen aluminium cooking saucepans or frypans for a very long
time (except in second-hand charity shops). I cook rhubarb very
slowly (poaching really) and was always told never to use aluminium,
so before the days of stainless steel (when was that? about 45 years
ago?) I used an enamel saucepan.

So this sort of warning has been around a long time I guess. I have
a daughter who uses a large aluminium cooking pot but I think only for
soup these days.

Kim wrote:

> I haven't seen aluminium cooking saucepans or frypans for a very long
> time (except in second-hand charity shops).

Then you haven't been in restaurant kitchens. As a balance point for
safety, utility and cost, aluminum is far and away the best to buy.
Since that foolishness about Alzheimer's was so thoroughly
discredited, even that silly specter is gone.

Aluminum is the most plentiful metal on earth and we eat some every
time we eat. It's in virtually every food. No deleterious effects have
been discovered from ingestion of aluminum in the quantities we
routinely eat or even multiples of those amounts.

> I cook rhubarb very
> slowly (poaching really) and was always told never to use aluminium,
> so before the days of stainless steel (when was that? about 45 years
> ago?) I used an enamel saucepan.
>
> So this sort of warning has been around a long time I guess. I have
> a daughter who uses a large aluminium cooking pot but I think only for
> soup these days.

Apples and oranges.

First, there's no health issue with aluminum except from the fringy
wackos who think science is about bubbly test tubes in movies.

Second, cooking with acid foods in aluminum can change the color of
the food. Don't want to do a Hollandaise sauce in aluminum because it
changes the color. Tastes the same, just isn't as pretty.

There's no "warning" about it. It a recognition of some chemical
properties that aluminum has in certain specific applications. There's
no good reason not to do the rhubarb in aluminum.

Pastorio

Reg wrote:

> I understand that acidic foods should not be cooked in aluminum, but
> I've never seen any solid information on exactly what level of acidity
> makes for problems.

What "problems" have you been told about?

Pastorio

> Question: What's the minimum PH (i.e. maximum acidity) acceptable
> for cooking in aluminum vessels. Bonus points for pointing
> out an authoritative reference.
>
> Thanks, and Happy 4th o' July.
>

Bob (this one) wrote:

> Reg wrote:
>
>> I understand that acidic foods should not be cooked in aluminum, but
>> I've never seen any solid information on exactly what level of acidity
>> makes for problems.
>
>
> What "problems" have you been told about?

That high acidity foods will react with the aluminum and produce off
flavors...

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

Reg wrote:

> Bob (this one) wrote:
>
>> Reg wrote:
>>
>>> I understand that acidic foods should not be cooked in aluminum, but
>>> I've never seen any solid information on exactly what level of acidity
>>> makes for problems.
>>
>> What "problems" have you been told about?
>
> That high acidity foods will react with the aluminum and produce off
> flavors...

Gotta be pretty acid for quite a while. Color will change before
flavor if it's pale like an egg sauce with lemon or vinegar.
Otherwise, the acid foods will inside of the pot very nicely. <lol>

We used to make our tomato sauce for my restaurants in 40-quart pots
every day. No issues and not one problem from staff or public. If you
were reducing vinegar, maybe a glass or enamel pot. Stainless would
scar (ask me how I know...). For anything but the more extremely acid
foods, aluminum is fine. Or extremely alkaline (but I can't think of one).

Pastorio

On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 03:55:25 GMT, Reg > wrote:

>Louis Cohen wrote:
>
>> I think a quick sauté of just about anything would be fine, but not a
>> long-simmered stew or braise with a tomato sauce, or in vinegar.
>
>Thanks Louis. You also bring up the important point
>that time is probably also part of the equation.
>
>I'm hoping I can find some info referring to specific
>PH levels....
>

google is your friend :>

http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ult.../Aluminum.html
http://www.usc.edu/CSSF/History/2002/Projects/J0520.pdf

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

I think I've heard that cooking (or storing) acid foods (like tomato sauces)
in aluminum can introduce off-flavors. Somehow, iron (from a cast iron pan
or Dutch oven or steel wok) seems more appetizing (and is necessary to one's
diet) than aluminum.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Louis Cohen
Living la vida loca at N37° 43' 7.9" W122° 8' 42.8"


"Bob (this one)" > wrote in message
...
> Kim wrote:
>
> > I haven't seen aluminium cooking saucepans or frypans for a very long
> > time (except in second-hand charity shops).
>
> Then you haven't been in restaurant kitchens. As a balance point for
> safety, utility and cost, aluminum is far and away the best to buy.
> Since that foolishness about Alzheimer's was so thoroughly
> discredited, even that silly specter is gone.
>
> Aluminum is the most plentiful metal on earth and we eat some every
> time we eat. It's in virtually every food. No deleterious effects have
> been discovered from ingestion of aluminum in the quantities we
> routinely eat or even multiples of those amounts.
>
> > I cook rhubarb very
> > slowly (poaching really) and was always told never to use aluminium,
> > so before the days of stainless steel (when was that? about 45 years
> > ago?) I used an enamel saucepan.
> >
> > So this sort of warning has been around a long time I guess. I have
> > a daughter who uses a large aluminium cooking pot but I think only for
> > soup these days.
>
> Apples and oranges.
>
> First, there's no health issue with aluminum except from the fringy
> wackos who think science is about bubbly test tubes in movies.
>
> Second, cooking with acid foods in aluminum can change the color of
> the food. Don't want to do a Hollandaise sauce in aluminum because it
> changes the color. Tastes the same, just isn't as pretty.
>
> There's no "warning" about it. It a recognition of some chemical
> properties that aluminum has in certain specific applications. There's
> no good reason not to do the rhubarb in aluminum.
>
> Pastorio
>

Curly Sue wrote:

> google is your friend :>
>

Ah, a search engine. What a great idea.

> http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ult.../Aluminum.html
> http://www.usc.edu/CSSF/History/2002/Projects/J0520.pdf

You're not even close, but thanks.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 20:48:28 GMT, Reg > wrote:

>Curly Sue wrote:
>
>> google is your friend :>
>>
>
>Ah, a search engine. What a great idea.
>
>> http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ult.../Aluminum.html
>> http://www.usc.edu/CSSF/History/2002/Projects/J0520.pdf
>
>You're not even close, but thanks.
>
Try Ask a Scientist:
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/webpag.../chem00364.htm

I suspect that the authoritative answer you'll get is that there is no
answer to your question, it depends on the particular food, the
studies haven't been done, etc.

You're welcome.

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

Louis Cohen wrote:

> I think I've heard that cooking (or storing) acid foods (like
> tomato sauces) in aluminum can introduce off-flavors.

You *think* you've *heard*...?

Have you tested the idea at all?

Didn't think so.

"Introduce off flavors." Whatever that could mean. Scotty beams them
into pots while you sleep.

> Somehow, iron (from a cast iron pan or Dutch oven or steel wok)
> seems more appetizing (and is necessary to one's diet) than
> aluminum.

And it's so good for the pan, too. If you eat a normal sort of diet,
you get all the iron you need. More isn't necessarily good and can be bad.

There is no demonstrated need in human nutrition for aluminum. That
also applies to most elements.

Pastorio

On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 19:24:28 -0400, "Bob (this one)" >
wrote:

>> I think I've heard that cooking (or storing) acid foods (like
>> tomato sauces) in aluminum can introduce off-flavors.
>
>You *think* you've *heard*...?
>
>Have you tested the idea at all?
>
>Didn't think so.

Howdy,

I cooked tomato sauce in an aluminum camping pot and left the residue
to be cleaned the following morning...

The sauce ate through the pan. I mean that literally. There were at
least a dozen extremely small holes in the pan about twelve hours
after I had used it.

'Can't say that it affected the taste though...

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Kenneth wrote:

> On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 19:24:28 -0400, "Bob (this one)" >
> wrote:
>
>>>I think I've heard that cooking (or storing) acid foods (like
>>>tomato sauces) in aluminum can introduce off-flavors.
>>
>>You *think* you've *heard*...?
>>
>>Have you tested the idea at all?
>>
>>Didn't think so.
>
> Howdy,
>
> I cooked tomato sauce in an aluminum camping pot and left the residue
> to be cleaned the following morning...
>
> The sauce ate through the pan. I mean that literally. There were at
> least a dozen extremely small holes in the pan about twelve hours
> after I had used it.
>
> 'Can't say that it affected the taste though...

Yep. I've seen that same sort of etching in my home pots (which are
considerably thicker) from the same sort of, um, kitchen habits. Er,
wait. I've *read* about that happening. Yes. Read about it.

I suspect the pot wasn't exactly pristine when you first set out to
cook the sauce. But, neither here nor there, acids will etch and
finally dissolve aluminum. And iron. And copper. And...

The OP was about the taste and some vaguenesses...

Pastorio

If someone would have cross-posted this question to
rec.craft.metalworking you would have had an answer in minutes.

I can't say if aluminum is bad for you or not, but if in doubt it
would be simple enough to have the boards anodised. If you live
somewhere that is at all industrial you can probably find someone to
do it locally. Otherwise, these boards wouldn't be hard to ship.

Also, You probably want it "clear" anodized, since most anodized
pigments are likely not food-grade. Also, you probably want to clearly
mark one side, so that the food side is always the same.

Robobass

On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 16:38:39 +1200, Kim >
wrote:

>I haven't seen aluminium cooking saucepans or frypans for a very long
>time (except in second-hand charity shops). I cook rhubarb very
>slowly (poaching really) and was always told never to use aluminium,
>so before the days of stainless steel (when was that? about 45 years
>ago?) I used an enamel saucepan.
>
>So this sort of warning has been around a long time I guess. I have
>a daughter who uses a large aluminium cooking pot but I think only for
>soup these days.
>
>
>
Interesting. In the US pretty much all restaurant
frying/saute'/roasting pans and a lot of the other pots are aluminum.
About the only things that come to mind that are nearly always
stainless steel are steam table inserts and storage containers.

On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 16:38:39 +1200, Kim >
wrote:

>I haven't seen aluminium cooking saucepans or frypans for a very long
>time (except in second-hand charity shops). I cook rhubarb very
>slowly (poaching really) and was always told never to use aluminium,
>so before the days of stainless steel (when was that? about 45 years
>ago?) I used an enamel saucepan.
>
>So this sort of warning has been around a long time I guess. I have
>a daughter who uses a large aluminium cooking pot but I think only for
>soup these days.
>
>
>
Interesting. In the US pretty much all restaurant
frying/saute'/roasting pans and a lot of the other pots are aluminum.
About the only things that come to mind that are nearly always
stainless steel are steam table inserts and storage containers.

On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 01:45:16 GMT, B.Server
> wrote:

>On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 16:38:39 +1200, Kim >
>wrote:
>
>>I haven't seen aluminium cooking saucepans or frypans for a very long
>>time (except in second-hand charity shops). I cook rhubarb very
>>slowly (poaching really) and was always told never to use aluminium,
>>so before the days of stainless steel (when was that? about 45 years
>>ago?) I used an enamel saucepan.
>>
>>So this sort of warning has been around a long time I guess. I have
>>a daughter who uses a large aluminium cooking pot but I think only for
>>soup these days.
>>
>>
>>
>Interesting. In the US pretty much all restaurant
>frying/saute'/roasting pans and a lot of the other pots are aluminum.
>About the only things that come to mind that are nearly always
>stainless steel are steam table inserts and storage containers.

I telephoned two gourmet (a la carte) restaurants in my city and asked
about aluminium cooking ware. Both said they had not used this medium
for many years and didn't think it was in use in most restaurants
these days.

And yesterday on the radio there was an American visiting health
expert being interviewed about cooking methods and she said that
aluminium should not be used at all as the jury was still out on what
effects this material used for cooking would have on mental health.

As an afterthought I notice stocks of very very cheap stainless steel
and some enamel (and enamel-coated cast iron) and of course cast iron
as well in the kitchen equipment area of large stores and
supermarkets. I am excluding non-stick cooking saucepans etc. -
they may be teflon-coated aluminium for all I know - but I don't think
so.

I have no idea what is used for restaurant cooking in the USA however.
Is aluminium cooking equipment widely used domestically?

On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 01:45:16 GMT, B.Server
> wrote:

>On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 16:38:39 +1200, Kim >
>wrote:
>
>>I haven't seen aluminium cooking saucepans or frypans for a very long
>>time (except in second-hand charity shops). I cook rhubarb very
>>slowly (poaching really) and was always told never to use aluminium,
>>so before the days of stainless steel (when was that? about 45 years
>>ago?) I used an enamel saucepan.
>>
>>So this sort of warning has been around a long time I guess. I have
>>a daughter who uses a large aluminium cooking pot but I think only for
>>soup these days.
>>
>>
>>
>Interesting. In the US pretty much all restaurant
>frying/saute'/roasting pans and a lot of the other pots are aluminum.
>About the only things that come to mind that are nearly always
>stainless steel are steam table inserts and storage containers.

I telephoned two gourmet (a la carte) restaurants in my city and asked
about aluminium cooking ware. Both said they had not used this medium
for many years and didn't think it was in use in most restaurants
these days.

And yesterday on the radio there was an American visiting health
expert being interviewed about cooking methods and she said that
aluminium should not be used at all as the jury was still out on what
effects this material used for cooking would have on mental health.

As an afterthought I notice stocks of very very cheap stainless steel
and some enamel (and enamel-coated cast iron) and of course cast iron
as well in the kitchen equipment area of large stores and
supermarkets. I am excluding non-stick cooking saucepans etc. -
they may be teflon-coated aluminium for all I know - but I don't think
so.

I have no idea what is used for restaurant cooking in the USA however.
Is aluminium cooking equipment widely used domestically?

Kim wrote:

> On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 01:45:16 GMT, B.Server
> > wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 16:38:39 +1200, Kim >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I haven't seen aluminium cooking saucepans or frypans for a
>>> very long time (except in second-hand charity shops). I cook
>>> rhubarb very slowly (poaching really) and was always told never
>>> to use aluminium, so before the days of stainless steel (when
>>> was that? about 45 years ago?) I used an enamel saucepan.
>>>
>>> So this sort of warning has been around a long time I guess. I
>>> have a daughter who uses a large aluminium cooking pot but I
>>> think only for soup these days.
>>>
>> Interesting. In the US pretty much all restaurant
>> frying/saute'/roasting pans and a lot of the other pots are
>> aluminum. About the only things that come to mind that are nearly
>> always stainless steel are steam table inserts and storage
>> containers.

Stainless steel is a terrible medium for cooking unless it's
sandwiched with other metals. Lousy heat distribution, hot spots and
scorching all over the bottom. If sandwiched, it's too delicate, heavy
and expensive for restaurant cooking. Scratches mean stuck food.

Baking trays are heavy aluminum. Cookie sheets are usually aluminum.
Springforms, cake pans.

> I telephoned two gourmet (a la carte) restaurants in my city and
> asked about aluminium cooking ware. Both said they had not used
> this medium for many years and didn't think it was in use in most
> restaurants these days.

They're humoring you because you asked the question and they're afraid
of what you'd do with that information. You could be some reporter
about to mangle yet another restaurant story. You could be some
political wacko about to issue yet another press release with their
names in it. You could be some crazy crusader bent on changing the
ways of an industry. I've had conversations with all of them when I
had restaurants.

> And yesterday on the radio there was an American visiting health
> expert being interviewed about cooking methods and she said that
> aluminium should not be used at all as the jury was still out on
> what effects this material used for cooking would have on mental
> health.

That visiting American health expert is a fraud. The alzheimer's
connection has been utterly discredited. *One* "researcher" found that
connection. No one else has ever been able to see the same results or
duplicate them or even hint at them. No one else has found *anything*
negative about aluminum cookware. Lots of fringe junk-science types
make a lot of negative claims, but no scientific support.

> As an afterthought I notice stocks of very very cheap stainless
> steel and some enamel (and enamel-coated cast iron) and of course
> cast iron as well in the kitchen equipment area of large stores and
> supermarkets. I am excluding non-stick cooking saucepans etc. -
> they may be teflon-coated aluminium for all I know - but I don't
> think so.

It sounds like you're seeing what you want to. The non-sticks will
almost certainly be aluminum. I guarantee that aluminum outsells
everything else combined.

> I have no idea what is used for restaurant cooking in the USA
> however. Is aluminium cooking equipment widely used domestically?

Aluminum cooking equipment is widely used internationally. Woks can't
be made of aluminum because of the extremely high heat used for
cooking, but everything else pretty much can be and is.

Pastorio

Kim wrote:

> On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 01:45:16 GMT, B.Server
> > wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 16:38:39 +1200, Kim >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I haven't seen aluminium cooking saucepans or frypans for a
>>> very long time (except in second-hand charity shops). I cook
>>> rhubarb very slowly (poaching really) and was always told never
>>> to use aluminium, so before the days of stainless steel (when
>>> was that? about 45 years ago?) I used an enamel saucepan.
>>>
>>> So this sort of warning has been around a long time I guess. I
>>> have a daughter who uses a large aluminium cooking pot but I
>>> think only for soup these days.
>>>
>> Interesting. In the US pretty much all restaurant
>> frying/saute'/roasting pans and a lot of the other pots are
>> aluminum. About the only things that come to mind that are nearly
>> always stainless steel are steam table inserts and storage
>> containers.

Stainless steel is a terrible medium for cooking unless it's
sandwiched with other metals. Lousy heat distribution, hot spots and
scorching all over the bottom. If sandwiched, it's too delicate, heavy
and expensive for restaurant cooking. Scratches mean stuck food.

Baking trays are heavy aluminum. Cookie sheets are usually aluminum.
Springforms, cake pans.

> I telephoned two gourmet (a la carte) restaurants in my city and
> asked about aluminium cooking ware. Both said they had not used
> this medium for many years and didn't think it was in use in most
> restaurants these days.

They're humoring you because you asked the question and they're afraid
of what you'd do with that information. You could be some reporter
about to mangle yet another restaurant story. You could be some
political wacko about to issue yet another press release with their
names in it. You could be some crazy crusader bent on changing the
ways of an industry. I've had conversations with all of them when I
had restaurants.

> And yesterday on the radio there was an American visiting health
> expert being interviewed about cooking methods and she said that
> aluminium should not be used at all as the jury was still out on
> what effects this material used for cooking would have on mental
> health.

That visiting American health expert is a fraud. The alzheimer's
connection has been utterly discredited. *One* "researcher" found that
connection. No one else has ever been able to see the same results or
duplicate them or even hint at them. No one else has found *anything*
negative about aluminum cookware. Lots of fringe junk-science types
make a lot of negative claims, but no scientific support.

> As an afterthought I notice stocks of very very cheap stainless
> steel and some enamel (and enamel-coated cast iron) and of course
> cast iron as well in the kitchen equipment area of large stores and
> supermarkets. I am excluding non-stick cooking saucepans etc. -
> they may be teflon-coated aluminium for all I know - but I don't
> think so.

It sounds like you're seeing what you want to. The non-sticks will
almost certainly be aluminum. I guarantee that aluminum outsells
everything else combined.

> I have no idea what is used for restaurant cooking in the USA
> however. Is aluminium cooking equipment widely used domestically?

Aluminum cooking equipment is widely used internationally. Woks can't
be made of aluminum because of the extremely high heat used for
cooking, but everything else pretty much can be and is.

Pastorio

One complaint about aluminum is that is gives an off
flavor. The response is that if it is handled wrong it
can cause discoloration not flavor change.

To some extent a person's reaction to food is visual.
If a food has an off color I find it easy to believe
that many people will automatically report it has an
off flavor based on the off appearance. Most folks
don't do blindfold taste tests.

Since I know the anti-aluminum hype is nonsense,
that still leaves me interested in avoiding the off
color. At home I have the luxury of stainless clad
pans with aluminum cores that I don't need to worry
about it, so that makes my interest merely academic.

Doug Freyburger wrote:

> One complaint about aluminum is that is gives an off
> flavor. The response is that if it is handled wrong it
> can cause discoloration not flavor change.

In a very few foods. Hollandaise gets a greenish cast. A few other
things like that. The vast preponderance of foods are essentially
unaffected by being in aluminum.

> To some extent a person's reaction to food is visual.
> If a food has an off color I find it easy to believe
> that many people will automatically report it has an
> off flavor based on the off appearance. Most folks
> don't do blindfold taste tests.
>
> Since I know the anti-aluminum hype is nonsense,
> that still leaves me interested in avoiding the off
> color. At home I have the luxury of stainless clad
> pans with aluminum cores that I don't need to worry
> about it, so that makes my interest merely academic.

Enjoy.

Pastorio

Doug Freyburger wrote:

> One complaint about aluminum is that is gives an off
> flavor. The response is that if it is handled wrong it
> can cause discoloration not flavor change.

In a very few foods. Hollandaise gets a greenish cast. A few other
things like that. The vast preponderance of foods are essentially
unaffected by being in aluminum.

> To some extent a person's reaction to food is visual.
> If a food has an off color I find it easy to believe
> that many people will automatically report it has an
> off flavor based on the off appearance. Most folks
> don't do blindfold taste tests.
>
> Since I know the anti-aluminum hype is nonsense,
> that still leaves me interested in avoiding the off
> color. At home I have the luxury of stainless clad
> pans with aluminum cores that I don't need to worry
> about it, so that makes my interest merely academic.

Enjoy.

Pastorio

Bob (this one) wrote:

> In a very few foods. Hollandaise gets a greenish cast. A few other
> things like that. The vast preponderance of foods are essentially
> unaffected by being in aluminum.

I worked for a special occasion caterer many, many years ago and can
remember catering to an all night BPOE New Year's Eve party. For
early morning breakfast, we'd prepared scrambled eggs ahead of time
and kept 'em hot 'till serving time in shallow aluminum pans. Quite
a surprise to remove the aluminum foil covering the eggs and see
they'd taken on an odd bluish-green color. Nuthin' we could do but
serve 'em. The hall was pretty dark and the Elks had been drinking
all night. They ate 'em all and never said a word. Lesson learned:
don't store scrambled eggs in aluminum pans.

Rich

On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 17:36:13 GMT, Rich McCormack >
wrote:

>They ate 'em all and never said a word. Lesson learned:
>don't store scrambled eggs in aluminum pans.

Hi Rich,

I would suggest that there might be more than one lesson available
here...<g>.

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 17:36:13 GMT, Rich McCormack >
wrote:

>They ate 'em all and never said a word. Lesson learned:
>don't store scrambled eggs in aluminum pans.

Hi Rich,

I would suggest that there might be more than one lesson available
here...<g>.

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

> Lesson learned:
>don't store scrambled eggs in aluminum pans.
>
>Rich

Don't boil eggs in aluminum pans either, unless you like your pans with yucky
black stains.


---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````

> Lesson learned:
>don't store scrambled eggs in aluminum pans.
>
>Rich

Don't boil eggs in aluminum pans either, unless you like your pans with yucky
black stains.


---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````

Rich McCormack wrote:

> Bob (this one) wrote:
>
>> In a very few foods. Hollandaise gets a greenish cast. A few
>> other things like that. The vast preponderance of foods are
>> essentially unaffected by being in aluminum.
>
> I worked for a special occasion caterer many, many years ago and
> can remember catering to an all night BPOE New Year's Eve party.
> For early morning breakfast, we'd prepared scrambled eggs ahead of
> time and kept 'em hot 'till serving time in shallow aluminum pans.
> Quite a surprise to remove the aluminum foil covering the eggs and
> see they'd taken on an odd bluish-green color.

I bet they they wouldn't have been amused if you put the ham next to
it and promoted green eggs and...

> Nuthin' we could do but serve 'em. The hall was pretty dark and
> the Elks had been drinking all night. They ate 'em all and never
> said a word. Lesson learned: don't store scrambled eggs in
> aluminum pans.

Yep. Sulfur compounds. East to stop, though. A dash of lemon juice
(you won't taste it) in the eggs as they cook will prevent it. UNless
the eggs sit in the pans for, like, two hours. IN which case you have
something besides scrambled eggs in there.

That's one of the reason that pasteurized, frozen eggs have a tiny bit
of citric or ascorbic acid in them.

Pastorio

Rich McCormack wrote:

> Bob (this one) wrote:
>
>> In a very few foods. Hollandaise gets a greenish cast. A few
>> other things like that. The vast preponderance of foods are
>> essentially unaffected by being in aluminum.
>
> I worked for a special occasion caterer many, many years ago and
> can remember catering to an all night BPOE New Year's Eve party.
> For early morning breakfast, we'd prepared scrambled eggs ahead of
> time and kept 'em hot 'till serving time in shallow aluminum pans.
> Quite a surprise to remove the aluminum foil covering the eggs and
> see they'd taken on an odd bluish-green color.

I bet they they wouldn't have been amused if you put the ham next to
it and promoted green eggs and...

> Nuthin' we could do but serve 'em. The hall was pretty dark and
> the Elks had been drinking all night. They ate 'em all and never
> said a word. Lesson learned: don't store scrambled eggs in
> aluminum pans.

Yep. Sulfur compounds. East to stop, though. A dash of lemon juice
(you won't taste it) in the eggs as they cook will prevent it. UNless
the eggs sit in the pans for, like, two hours. IN which case you have
something besides scrambled eggs in there.

That's one of the reason that pasteurized, frozen eggs have a tiny bit
of citric or ascorbic acid in them.

Pastorio

Stainless steel cookpots are perfectly OK for boiling vegetables or
making soup. Anything that doesn't require bottom cooking, I agree.
Stainless steel is NOT a good heat conductor. I personally use a
good quality teflon-coated wok for stir-fries, and a heavy non-stick
skillet for browning and for some other types of fast-fry or saute
cooking, e.g. omelettes and egg dishes (eg scrambled, fried, poached).

I have a very good Scandinavian Dutch Oven for casserole-type cooking
- it is cast iron and very very heavy. So my stainless steel pots
are virtually only for boiling things like vegetables and eggs or
making soup.

If I want a slow cook I use an electric crockpot (or slow cooker) that
has a ceramic bowl.

I do have aluminium oven trays which I usually cover with baking paper
when baking what we call biscuits and people in the US call something
else, or baking scones which they call something else also. But you
get my drift I'm sure.

I would never, but never, cook eggs in anything made from aluminium.

We use aluminium foil to cover items that need covering while cooking
when there is no suitable lid available. I also wrap a roast with
aluminium foil while it rests before carving.

Cheers

Stainless steel cookpots are perfectly OK for boiling vegetables or
making soup. Anything that doesn't require bottom cooking, I agree.
Stainless steel is NOT a good heat conductor. I personally use a
good quality teflon-coated wok for stir-fries, and a heavy non-stick
skillet for browning and for some other types of fast-fry or saute
cooking, e.g. omelettes and egg dishes (eg scrambled, fried, poached).

I have a very good Scandinavian Dutch Oven for casserole-type cooking
- it is cast iron and very very heavy. So my stainless steel pots
are virtually only for boiling things like vegetables and eggs or
making soup.

If I want a slow cook I use an electric crockpot (or slow cooker) that
has a ceramic bowl.

I do have aluminium oven trays which I usually cover with baking paper
when baking what we call biscuits and people in the US call something
else, or baking scones which they call something else also. But you
get my drift I'm sure.

I would never, but never, cook eggs in anything made from aluminium.

We use aluminium foil to cover items that need covering while cooking
when there is no suitable lid available. I also wrap a roast with
aluminium foil while it rests before carving.

Cheers

This may be of interest. Several years ago I threw away all my
mother's alum cookware, and got her some good laminated copper/SS
replacements. Withing 6 months her arthritis cleared up almost
completely, and she was able to get off medication.

VR,
TWH

"tom hooper" > wrote in message
...
> This may be of interest. Several years ago I threw away all my
> mother's alum cookware, and got her some good laminated copper/SS
> replacements. Withing 6 months her arthritis cleared up almost
> completely, and she was able to get off medication.
>
> VR,
> TWH
>

I too got rid of my mother's aluninum cookware. Within 6 months she was
diagnosed with cancer and was run over by a drunk driver and killed.

My point, in case you missed it, is that this sort of anecdotal story with a
vague correlation between things is absolutely and completely meaningless.


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

tom hooper wrote:

> This may be of interest. Several years ago I threw away all my
> mother's alum cookware, and got her some good laminated copper/SS
> replacements. Withing 6 months her arthritis cleared up almost
> completely, and she was able to get off medication.

What aftershave were you wearing when you brought her the new
equipment? I'd look into that as being the cause too.

I originally posted asking about the effects of aluminum
on taste and appearance of food. I didn't expend much effort
explaining that I was not referring to the supposed health
effects since they've been soundly refuted for years. In
the back of my mind I kind of assumed people knew that.

Little did I know. I'm amazed that people are still caught up
in that old scare story.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

tom hooper wrote:

> This may be of interest. Several years ago I threw away all my
> mother's alum cookware, and got her some good laminated copper/SS
> replacements. Withing 6 months her arthritis cleared up almost
> completely, and she was able to get off medication.

What aftershave were you wearing when you brought her the new
equipment? I'd look into that as being the cause too.

I originally posted asking about the effects of aluminum
on taste and appearance of food. I didn't expend much effort
explaining that I was not referring to the supposed health
effects since they've been soundly refuted for years. In
the back of my mind I kind of assumed people knew that.

Little did I know. I'm amazed that people are still caught up
in that old scare story.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

"Peter Aitken" wrote in message
.com...
>
> I too got rid of my mother's aluninum cookware. Within 6 months she was
> diagnosed with cancer and was run over by a drunk driver and killed.
>
> --
> Peter Aitken


Peter:

Sorry to hear about your mother. I'm sure you can take some comfort in the
fact that things would have been worse had you not taken care of the
cookware issue.

-Mike

"Peter Aitken" wrote in message
.com...
>
> I too got rid of my mother's aluninum cookware. Within 6 months she was
> diagnosed with cancer and was run over by a drunk driver and killed.
>
> --
> Peter Aitken


Peter:

Sorry to hear about your mother. I'm sure you can take some comfort in the
fact that things would have been worse had you not taken care of the
cookware issue.

-Mike