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  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
Ken
 
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Default Unrefrigerated ground beef

I purchased a pack of ground beef at the grocery store, packed in the
standard styrofoam/shrink wrap package. Circumstances prevented me from
getting the beef into my refrigerator for 12 hours - it spent a fairly cool
Seattle evening in my car last night. This morning, it passed the smell
test. I'd appreciate some opinions on if the meat is good/bad.


  #2 (permalink)   Report Post  
jmcquown
 
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Default Unrefrigerated ground beef

Ken wrote:
> I purchased a pack of ground beef at the grocery store, packed in the
> standard styrofoam/shrink wrap package. Circumstances prevented me
> from getting the beef into my refrigerator for 12 hours - it spent a
> fairly cool Seattle evening in my car last night. This morning, it
> passed the smell test. I'd appreciate some opinions on if the meat
> is good/bad.


Whatcha do, get drunk and forget about it? (teasing) How cool an evening?
If it passed the smell test it's probably okay but cook it immediately.

Jill


  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
Vox Humana
 
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Default Unrefrigerated ground beef


"Ken" > wrote in message
news:zwhFc.15353$7t3.2343@attbi_s51...
> I purchased a pack of ground beef at the grocery store, packed in the
> standard styrofoam/shrink wrap package. Circumstances prevented me from
> getting the beef into my refrigerator for 12 hours - it spent a fairly

cool
> Seattle evening in my car last night. This morning, it passed the smell
> test. I'd appreciate some opinions on if the meat is good/bad.


Pitch it. Ground meat is the most likely type of meat to be contaminated.
A week in the hospital hoping for a quick death is far more costly than a
package of ground beef.


  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
byakee
 
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Default Unrefrigerated ground beef

One dark day on Usenet, "Ken" > said:

> I purchased a pack of ground beef at the grocery store, packed in the
> standard styrofoam/shrink wrap package. Circumstances prevented me from
> getting the beef into my refrigerator for 12 hours - it spent a fairly cool
> Seattle evening in my car last night. This morning, it passed the smell
> test. I'd appreciate some opinions on if the meat is good/bad.


Given that the tempurature was in the mid-50's last night (I'm not
far from Seattle myself), I'd throw it away...


--
J.J. in WA ~ mom, vid gamer, novice cook ~
(COLD to HOT for e-mail)
"Why do my knees feel like the wanna tear up?"
- Carl, ATHF


  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
Katra
 
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Default Unrefrigerated ground beef

In article >,
"Vox Humana" > wrote:

> "Ken" > wrote in message
> news:zwhFc.15353$7t3.2343@attbi_s51...
> > I purchased a pack of ground beef at the grocery store, packed in the
> > standard styrofoam/shrink wrap package. Circumstances prevented me from
> > getting the beef into my refrigerator for 12 hours - it spent a fairly

> cool
> > Seattle evening in my car last night. This morning, it passed the smell
> > test. I'd appreciate some opinions on if the meat is good/bad.

>
> Pitch it. Ground meat is the most likely type of meat to be contaminated.
> A week in the hospital hoping for a quick death is far more costly than a
> package of ground beef.
>
>


Excellent point. ;-)
It's a point I keep having to tell my dad when I want to pitch old food
to the chickens...

I've finally convinced him that it's cheaper to replace the food than
deal with the hospital bill!

My chickens love raw ground beef. I've given them stuff out of the
freezer that was freezer burned. :-)

K.

--
Sprout the Mung Bean to reply...

>,,<Cat's Haven Hobby Farm>,,<Katraatcenturyteldotnet>,,<


http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...user id=katra
  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
Jimmy G
 
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Default Unrefrigerated ground beef

If it don't stink, eat it.

The smell & wiggle test is fine for me: If it doesn't smell bad, & I can't
see anything wiggling in it without the aide of my glasses, then it's safe
to eat.

I spent a year in Thailand eating food off the street & form markets that
had unrefrigerated beef, chicken & fish. The food never bothered
me...never had a stomach ache. Of course, I spent a month in the hospital
with hepatitis, but that's another story.


  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
PENMART01
 
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Default Unrefrigerated ground beef

>"Ken"
>
>I purchased a pack of ground beef at the grocery store, packed in the
>standard styrofoam/shrink wrap package. Circumstances prevented me from
>getting the beef into my refrigerator for 12 hours - it spent a fairly cool
>Seattle evening in my car last night. This morning, it passed the smell
>test. I'd appreciate some opinions on if the meat is good/bad.


I'd not have bought that fercocktah mystery meat in the first place... perhaps
sitting out fermenting is an improvement.


---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````
  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
Mary Jo Oliver
 
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Default Unrefrigerated ground beef

I work in a meat department..trust me..throw it away...meat needs to be kept
at a certain temp. if it is outside that temperature for more than 2 hours
it is considered bad.
"Ken" > wrote in message
news:zwhFc.15353$7t3.2343@attbi_s51...
> I purchased a pack of ground beef at the grocery store, packed in the
> standard styrofoam/shrink wrap package. Circumstances prevented me from
> getting the beef into my refrigerator for 12 hours - it spent a fairly

cool
> Seattle evening in my car last night. This morning, it passed the smell
> test. I'd appreciate some opinions on if the meat is good/bad.
>
>





  #11 (permalink)   Report Post  
Ken
 
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Default Unrefrigerated ground beef

> Whatcha do, get drunk and forget about it?

:: Nodding sheepishly ::

Thanks all for your opinions. Chucking it.


"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
> Ken wrote:
> > I purchased a pack of ground beef at the grocery store, packed in the
> > standard styrofoam/shrink wrap package. Circumstances prevented me
> > from getting the beef into my refrigerator for 12 hours - it spent a
> > fairly cool Seattle evening in my car last night. This morning, it
> > passed the smell test. I'd appreciate some opinions on if the meat
> > is good/bad.

>
> Whatcha do, get drunk and forget about it? (teasing) How cool an evening?
> If it passed the smell test it's probably okay but cook it immediately.
>
> Jill
>
>



  #12 (permalink)   Report Post  
sf
 
Posts: n/a
Default Unrefrigerated ground beef

On Fri, 02 Jul 2004 16:26:23 -0500, Katra
> wrote:

> In article >,
> "Vox Humana" > wrote:
>
> > "Ken" > wrote in message
> > news:zwhFc.15353$7t3.2343@attbi_s51...
> > > I purchased a pack of ground beef at the grocery store, packed in the
> > > standard styrofoam/shrink wrap package. Circumstances prevented me from
> > > getting the beef into my refrigerator for 12 hours - it spent a fairly

> > cool
> > > Seattle evening in my car last night. This morning, it passed the smell
> > > test. I'd appreciate some opinions on if the meat is good/bad.

> >
> > Pitch it. Ground meat is the most likely type of meat to be contaminated.
> > A week in the hospital hoping for a quick death is far more costly than a
> > package of ground beef.
> >

>
> Excellent point. ;-)
> It's a point I keep having to tell my dad when I want to pitch old food
> to the chickens...
>

IMO: if you didn't eat it by this time, toss it - but a
truly cool Seattle night would be cool enough for meat...
Worst case scenerio - it'll clean out your system, but won't
kill you (if you're healthy to begin with).




Practice safe eating - always use condiments
  #13 (permalink)   Report Post  
Scott
 
Posts: n/a
Default Unrefrigerated ground beef

In article <GSmFc.7884$151.2064@fed1read02>,
"Jimmy G" > wrote:

> If it don't stink, eat it.
>
> The smell & wiggle test is fine for me: If it doesn't smell bad, & I can't
> see anything wiggling in it without the aide of my glasses, then it's safe
> to eat.


Bad advice. Massive E. coli contamination doesn't make meat smell bad.

--
to respond, change "spamless.invalid" with "optonline.net"
please mail OT responses only
  #14 (permalink)   Report Post  
Vox Humana
 
Posts: n/a
Default Unrefrigerated ground beef


"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 02 Jul 2004 16:26:23 -0500, Katra
> > wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > "Vox Humana" > wrote:
> >
> > > "Ken" > wrote in message
> > > news:zwhFc.15353$7t3.2343@attbi_s51...
> > > > I purchased a pack of ground beef at the grocery store, packed in

the
> > > > standard styrofoam/shrink wrap package. Circumstances prevented me

from
> > > > getting the beef into my refrigerator for 12 hours - it spent a

fairly
> > > cool
> > > > Seattle evening in my car last night. This morning, it passed the

smell
> > > > test. I'd appreciate some opinions on if the meat is good/bad.
> > >
> > > Pitch it. Ground meat is the most likely type of meat to be

contaminated.
> > > A week in the hospital hoping for a quick death is far more costly

than a
> > > package of ground beef.
> > >

> >
> > Excellent point. ;-)
> > It's a point I keep having to tell my dad when I want to pitch old food
> > to the chickens...
> >

> IMO: if you didn't eat it by this time, toss it - but a
> truly cool Seattle night would be cool enough for meat...
> Worst case scenerio - it'll clean out your system, but won't
> kill you (if you're healthy to begin with).


Who wants to be sick for several days over $2 worth of meat?


  #15 (permalink)   Report Post  
sf
 
Posts: n/a
Default Unrefrigerated ground beef

On Sat, 03 Jul 2004 22:26:12 GMT, "Vox Humana"
> wrote:

> Who wants to be sick for several days over $2 worth of meat?


So, why the OP if it's such a no brainer?


Practice safe eating - always use condiments


  #16 (permalink)   Report Post  
Carmen Dioxide
 
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Default Unrefrigerated ground beef

"jmcquown" > wrote in message >. ..
> Ken wrote:
> > I purchased a pack of ground beef at the grocery store, packed in the
> > standard styrofoam/shrink wrap package. Circumstances prevented me
> > from getting the beef into my refrigerator for 12 hours - it spent a
> > fairly cool Seattle evening in my car last night. This morning, it
> > passed the smell test. I'd appreciate some opinions on if the meat
> > is good/bad.

>
> Whatcha do, get drunk and forget about it? (teasing) How cool an evening?
> If it passed the smell test it's probably okay but cook it immediately.
>


Another pin-headed post from Jill! This one takes the cake though.
  #17 (permalink)   Report Post  
Vox Humana
 
Posts: n/a
Default Unrefrigerated ground beef


"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 03 Jul 2004 22:26:12 GMT, "Vox Humana"
> > wrote:
>
> > Who wants to be sick for several days over $2 worth of meat?

>
> So, why the OP if it's such a no brainer?
>
>


I didn't characterized it as a no brainer. I am asserting that the risk
isn't worth the benefit of saving a couple of dollars.


  #18 (permalink)   Report Post  
Bob (this one)
 
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Default Unrefrigerated ground beef

Carmen Dioxide wrote:

> "jmcquown" > wrote in message >. ..
>
>>Ken wrote:
>>
>>>I purchased a pack of ground beef at the grocery store, packed in the
>>>standard styrofoam/shrink wrap package. Circumstances prevented me
>>>from getting the beef into my refrigerator for 12 hours - it spent a
>>>fairly cool Seattle evening in my car last night. This morning, it
>>>passed the smell test. I'd appreciate some opinions on if the meat
>>>is good/bad.

>>
>>Whatcha do, get drunk and forget about it? (teasing) How cool an evening?
>>If it passed the smell test it's probably okay but cook it immediately.
>>

> Another pin-headed post from Jill! This one takes the cake though.


Actually, it's what I would have posted because it's absolutely on the
mark. Looks like it was more important to sling some crap than to
actually consider the reality of the setting.

All this ignorant terror over bacteria that are going to die when
cooked is a bit precious and effete. I read a lot of scary posts with
nary a smidge of science to them. Cook the meat and virtually
everything dies. Put a bit of tomato sauce on it to lower the pH and
virtually everything dies all over again. Chill it and anything still
alive (probably log 6 or 8 kill - 1/100,000 to 1/10,000,000) will stop
doing anything.

Obviously all the panicky posters don't live anywhere except in modern
formica cities. The rest of the world is a very different place.

More and more first-world people get sick from bacteria every day, not
because they're any more virulent, but because we seem to be in a
panic about germs and strive to get a germ-free environment. It's
stupid. The reason people are getting sick isn't because there are
germs around. They've always been there. It's because we're not being
exposed to them and our immune systems aren't developing antibodies. A
bad idea to wash kids' hands with antibacterial soaps.

Pastorio

  #19 (permalink)   Report Post  
Julia Altshuler
 
Posts: n/a
Default Unrefrigerated ground beef

Bob (this one) wrote:

Cook the meat and virtually everything dies.
> Put a bit of tomato sauce on it to lower the pH and virtually everything
> dies all over again. Chill it and anything still alive (probably log 6
> or 8 kill - 1/100,000 to 1/10,000,000) will stop doing anything.


Here's what I remember from Culinary school 20 years ago. The reason
for throwing away meats that have been in the danger zone (40 degrees-
120 degrees F) rather than cooking them is that the growing bacteria
produce toxins that can make a person sick. Heating kills the bacteria
but does nothing to the toxins that are then present in the meat.

> More and more first-world people get sick from bacteria every day, not
> because they're any more virulent, but because we seem to be in a panic
> about germs and strive to get a germ-free environment. It's stupid. The
> reason people are getting sick isn't because there are germs around.
> They've always been there. It's because we're not being exposed to them
> and our immune systems aren't developing antibodies. A bad idea to wash
> kids' hands with antibacterial soaps.



This is bringing more subjects into the mix. They're related but not
exactly the same. Let me see if I can separate them out.

There are studies showing that children brought up in more antiseptic
environments have higher incidents of asthma and allergies than those
who don't. One theory suggests that perhaps those children's immune
systems don't develop because they're not exposed to bacteria as they
might have been in the past.


Not all bacteria are bad, but anti-bacterial soaps don't discriminate
between the good guys and the bad. Antibacterial soaps dry the skin,
possibly create an environment for bacteria to evolve that aren't killed
by the soaps, and probably don't do that much good anyway since the
bacteria they kill weren't going to do any harm.


These decisions are a matter of weighing benefits and risks. There's
little benefit for a healthy person to wash hands with anti-bacterial
soap before cooking in a restaurant because there isn't much risk of
anyone getting sick in the first place. It does make sense to use the
anti-bacterial soaps in many hospital situations. There's enormous
benefit in washing hands carefully with ordinary soap after using the
bathroom.


The same decision making process can be applied to throwing out the
ground beef. There's some risk of illness from bacteria. There's not a
huge benefit in cooking and eating the burger. You save a little money
but not much. That's why I'd say to throw it away.


--Lia

  #20 (permalink)   Report Post  
sf
 
Posts: n/a
Default Unrefrigerated ground beef

On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 03:15:22 GMT, "Vox Humana"
> wrote:

>
> "sf" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Sat, 03 Jul 2004 22:26:12 GMT, "Vox Humana"
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > Who wants to be sick for several days over $2 worth of meat?

> >
> > So, why the OP if it's such a no brainer?
> >
> >

>
> I didn't characterized it as a no brainer. I am asserting that the risk
> isn't worth the benefit of saving a couple of dollars.
>

You're addressing it as a no brainer.


Practice safe eating - always use condiments


  #21 (permalink)   Report Post  
Bob (this one)
 
Posts: n/a
Default Unrefrigerated ground beef

Julia Altshuler wrote:

> Bob (this one) wrote:
>
>> Cook the meat and virtually everything dies. Put a bit of tomato
>> sauce on it to lower the pH and virtually everything dies all
>> over again. Chill it and anything still alive (probably log 6 or
>> 8 kill - 1/100,000 to 1/10,000,000) will stop doing anything.

>
> Here's what I remember from Culinary school 20 years ago. The
> reason for throwing away meats that have been in the danger zone
> (40 degrees- 120 degrees F) rather than cooking them is that the
> growing bacteria produce toxins that can make a person sick.
> Heating kills the bacteria but does nothing to the toxins that are
> then present in the meat.


Yeah. That's what I was told, too. Some anaerobes produce toxins
(that's why we're supposed to boil home-canned foods for 20 minutes
after opening the jar) but their toxins can be eliminated by cooking.
Others produce toxins that are relatively heat stable, but their
incidence is very low.

Here's a paper that talks about pathogenic bacterial growth rates at
various temperatures.
<http://www.hi-tm.com/Documents2001/time-temp-calculations.html>

From a wonderful web site with lots of good science.
<http://www.hi-tm.com/html/pubs_reports.html>

Here. A government site that guarantees you'll never eat again.
<http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~mow/intro.html>


>> More and more first-world people get sick from bacteria every
>> day, not because they're any more virulent, but because we seem
>> to be in a panic about germs and strive to get a germ-free
>> environment. It's stupid. The reason people are getting sick
>> isn't because there are germs around. They've always been there.
>> It's because we're not being exposed to them and our immune
>> systems aren't developing antibodies. A bad idea to wash kids'
>> hands with antibacterial soaps.

>
> This is bringing more subjects into the mix. They're related but
> not exactly the same. Let me see if I can separate them out.
>
> There are studies showing that children brought up in more
> antiseptic environments have higher incidents of asthma and
> allergies than those who don't. One theory suggests that perhaps
> those children's immune systems don't develop because they're not
> exposed to bacteria as they might have been in the past.


They've been carried further than that. Correlations with common
childhood diseases are greater in those children, as well. Some of the
data points to more severe infection in the cases of those diseases,
but the data is still sketchy.

> Not all bacteria are bad, but anti-bacterial soaps don't
> discriminate between the good guys and the bad. Antibacterial
> soaps dry the skin, possibly create an environment for bacteria to
> evolve that aren't killed by the soaps, and probably don't do that
> much good anyway since the bacteria they kill weren't going to do
> any harm.
>
>
> These decisions are a matter of weighing benefits and risks.
> There's little benefit for a healthy person to wash hands with
> anti-bacterial soap before cooking in a restaurant because there
> isn't much risk of anyone getting sick in the first place.


I'm not so sure I agree. Badly handled foods in restaurants are one -
not the biggest, by any means - of the reasons people get sick from
foods. Hand washing (and keeping everything else mirror-clean) was a
big priority in my operations.

Health departments all over the country are pressing hard for
gloves, missing the point entirely. Gloves pick up the same dirt and
critters as fingers unless used with very stringent care.

> It does make sense to use the anti-bacterial soaps in many hospital
> situations.


To be sure, but that's not the sort of situation I was talking about.

> There's enormous benefit in washing hands carefully with ordinary
> soap after using the bathroom.


Of course. We all carry E.coli and that's not a good condiment in our
dinners. The problem happens when we go to leave the bathroom and use
the same door handle as lots of people who didn't use the soap.

> The same decision making process can be applied to throwing out the
> ground beef. There's some risk of illness from bacteria. There's
> not a huge benefit in cooking and eating the burger. You save a
> little money but not much. That's why I'd say to throw it away.


Except the risk, after cooking, is trivial. You save a little money, a
little time. A little irritation.

"Some" risk, quantified, becomes close to engineer's zero.

What time will you be here for dinner...? <G>

Pastorio

  #22 (permalink)   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default Unrefrigerated ground beef

:> Whatcha do, get drunk and forget about it?

: :: Nodding sheepishly ::

: Thanks all for your opinions. Chucking it.


Unless you were going to eat it raw, you just wasted your money. Cooking
it thoroughly (which you should always do when using ground beef anyway)
would have killed any bacteria. You chucked it for naught.
  #23 (permalink)   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default Unrefrigerated ground beef

:> Whatcha do, get drunk and forget about it?

: :: Nodding sheepishly ::

: Thanks all for your opinions. Chucking it.


Unless you were going to eat it raw, you just wasted your money. Cooking
it thoroughly (which you should always do when using ground beef anyway)
would have killed any bacteria. You chucked it for naught.
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