Hi,
In recipes that call for white wine, is cooking wine from the grocery
store fine, or does it offer poor flavor, too much salt, or conflict
with the rest of the seasoning vs. standard wine? I ask because this
is my first year in college, and I'm 18, thus cooking wine is really
the only wine, but I want to know how it might affect a recipe and how
I might compensate.

If non-cooking-wine is the way to go (at least when home, and my dad
can buy it), do you have any best-value recommendations? Since it's
cooked and not drunk, is the dirt cheapest the way to go...?


thanks!
-Bernard Arnest

Bernard Arnest wrote:
> Hi,
> In recipes that call for white wine, is cooking wine from the grocery
> store fine, or does it offer poor flavor, too much salt, or conflict
> with the rest of the seasoning vs. standard wine? I ask because this
> is my first year in college, and I'm 18, thus cooking wine is really
> the only wine, but I want to know how it might affect a recipe and how
> I might compensate.
>
> If non-cooking-wine is the way to go (at least when home, and my dad
> can buy it), do you have any best-value recommendations? Since it's
> cooked and not drunk, is the dirt cheapest the way to go...?
>
Dry vermouth works pretty well in most recipes that call for white
wine. Keeps forever, neutral taste. Dry sherry works for some things,
depending on whether the flavor meshes with the recipe. But not
"cooking sherry," which as you note, contains salt and tastes terrible.
-aem

I agree strongly with the above poster! Amen!
Julia Child, on the TV show, The French Chef, used vermouth
always for "white wine". I use Ponti dry vermouth at Trade Joes'
for about three $/bottle, and I like it better than most other white wines
for cooking.
Kent

"Bernard Arnest" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Hi,
> In recipes that call for white wine, is cooking wine from the grocery
> store fine, or does it offer poor flavor, too much salt, or conflict
> with the rest of the seasoning vs. standard wine? I ask because this
> is my first year in college, and I'm 18, thus cooking wine is really
> the only wine, but I want to know how it might affect a recipe and how
> I might compensate.
>
> If non-cooking-wine is the way to go (at least when home, and my dad
> can buy it), do you have any best-value recommendations? Since it's
> cooked and not drunk, is the dirt cheapest the way to go...?
>
>
> thanks!
> -Bernard Arnest
>

Bernard Arnest wrote:

> Hi,
> In recipes that call for white wine, is cooking wine from the
> grocery
> store fine, or does it offer poor flavor, too much salt, or conflict
> with the rest of the seasoning vs. standard wine? I ask because this
> is my first year in college, and I'm 18, thus cooking wine is really
> the only wine, but I want to know how it might affect a recipe and how
>
> I might compensate.
>
> If non-cooking-wine is the way to go (at least when home, and my dad
>
> can buy it), do you have any best-value recommendations? Since it's
> cooked and not drunk, is the dirt cheapest the way to go...?
>
>
> thanks!
> -Bernard Arnest

Avoid anything labelled 'cooking wine' try a Gallo Chenin blanc if
acquiring the wine is not a problem for you.
---
JL

cooking with wine 101: As the wine's flavor will concentrate with
cooking, don't use anything that tastes like shit.
Unless you're into concentrated shit.

Hi Bernard,
In your situation I wouldn't waste my money on white wine for cooking. Get
yourself a big bottle of dry vermouth. Its cheap, you only need half the
amount, it works well in cooking and you won't be tempted to drink it "-)
Otherwise try madeira, or even dry sherry. Experiment till you find the
taste you like. This will vary depending on the recipe. You can use a cheap
port too in recipes that can use some sweetness.
Good Luck!!
Richard.




"Bernard Arnest" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Hi,
> In recipes that call for white wine, is cooking wine from the grocery
> store fine, or does it offer poor flavor, too much salt, or conflict
> with the rest of the seasoning vs. standard wine? I ask because this
> is my first year in college, and I'm 18, thus cooking wine is really
> the only wine, but I want to know how it might affect a recipe and how
> I might compensate.
>
> If non-cooking-wine is the way to go (at least when home, and my dad
> can buy it), do you have any best-value recommendations? Since it's
> cooked and not drunk, is the dirt cheapest the way to go...?
>
>
> thanks!
> -Bernard Arnest
>

Never cook with a wine you wouldn't drink.. That's my contribution.

Horse

"Richard Green" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Bernard,
> In your situation I wouldn't waste my money on white wine for cooking. Get
> yourself a big bottle of dry vermouth. Its cheap, you only need half the
> amount, it works well in cooking and you won't be tempted to drink it "-)
> Otherwise try madeira, or even dry sherry. Experiment till you find the
> taste you like. This will vary depending on the recipe. You can use a
cheap
> port too in recipes that can use some sweetness.
> Good Luck!!
> Richard.
>
>
>
>
> "Bernard Arnest" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> > Hi,
> > In recipes that call for white wine, is cooking wine from the grocery
> > store fine, or does it offer poor flavor, too much salt, or conflict
> > with the rest of the seasoning vs. standard wine? I ask because this
> > is my first year in college, and I'm 18, thus cooking wine is really
> > the only wine, but I want to know how it might affect a recipe and how
> > I might compensate.
> >
> > If non-cooking-wine is the way to go (at least when home, and my dad
> > can buy it), do you have any best-value recommendations? Since it's
> > cooked and not drunk, is the dirt cheapest the way to go...?
> >
> >
> > thanks!
> > -Bernard Arnest
> >
>
>

In article . com>,
"Bernard Arnest" > wrote:

> Hi,
> In recipes that call for white wine, is cooking wine from the grocery
> store fine, or does it offer poor flavor, too much salt, or conflict
> with the rest of the seasoning vs. standard wine? I ask because this
> is my first year in college, and I'm 18, thus cooking wine is really
> the only wine, but I want to know how it might affect a recipe and how
> I might compensate.
>
> If non-cooking-wine is the way to go (at least when home, and my dad
> can buy it), do you have any best-value recommendations? Since it's
> cooked and not drunk, is the dirt cheapest the way to go...?

Whatever you like that's in your budget is fine. Cooking wine from
grocery stores tends to be a bad choice because its mostly salt and low
quality wine. You might enjoy those recipes that call for wine more if
you go to a wine store and buy an inexpensive bottle of wine. A rule of
thumb is that if you don't enjoy drinking a wine, don't cook with it.

<snipped a bit>

>> In recipes that call for white wine, is cooking wine from the grocery
>> store fine, or does it offer poor flavor, too much salt, or conflict
>> with the rest of the seasoning vs. standard wine? >
> Whatever you like that's in your budget is fine. Cooking wine from
> grocery stores tends to be a bad choice because its mostly salt and low
> quality wine.

Ok, I have to ask...I've never heard of "cooking wine" as such, and am
wondering what the heck is salt doing in wine? I Googled a bit, but didn't
find much about why. Cooking wine to me (and I would say with some
confidence, most other Aussies) is "normal" wine that you cook with.

Granted, maybe I'm just showing some ignorance about stuff from O/S, but I
live in a great wine-growing state (Sth Australia) with many wonderful
wineries 1 hour North of me (Barossa Valley, Clare Valley), and several
others 1 hour South of me (McLaren Vale, Clarendon, the Southern Vales), and
maybe even better wine country another couple of hours away (Coonawarra,
etc), but I've never heard of salt in wine.

I've always followed my parents' advice (mum a great Italian home cook, and
dad a chef) that if I couldn't drink the stuff, I shouldn't cook with it,
but it was always normal bottled or even cask wine.

Thanks in advance
Maria
a somewhat confused, occasional wine drinker :-)

MG wrote:

<snip>

> Ok, I have to ask...I've never heard of "cooking wine" as such, and am
> wondering what the heck is salt doing in wine? I Googled a bit, but didn't
> find much about why. Cooking wine to me (and I would say with some
> confidence, most other Aussies) is "normal" wine that you cook with.

<snip>

The story I always used to hear was that cooking wine was salted
to discourage the servants from taking a nip.

"MG" > wrote in message
news
> <snipped a bit>
>
>>> In recipes that call for white wine, is cooking wine from the
>>> grocery
>>> store fine, or does it offer poor flavor, too much salt, or conflict
>>> with the rest of the seasoning vs. standard wine? >
>> Whatever you like that's in your budget is fine. Cooking wine from
>> grocery stores tends to be a bad choice because its mostly salt and
>> low
>> quality wine.
>
> Ok, I have to ask...I've never heard of "cooking wine" as such, and am
> wondering what the heck is salt doing in wine? I Googled a bit, but
> didn't find much about why. Cooking wine to me (and I would say with
> some confidence, most other Aussies) is "normal" wine that you cook
> with.
>
> Granted, maybe I'm just showing some ignorance about stuff from O/S,
> but I live in a great wine-growing state (Sth Australia) with many
> wonderful wineries 1 hour North of me (Barossa Valley, Clare Valley),
> and several others 1 hour South of me (McLaren Vale, Clarendon, the
> Southern Vales), and maybe even better wine country another couple of
> hours away (Coonawarra, etc), but I've never heard of salt in wine.
>
> I've always followed my parents' advice (mum a great Italian home
> cook, and dad a chef) that if I couldn't drink the stuff, I shouldn't
> cook with it, but it was always normal bottled or even cask wine.
>
> Thanks in advance
> Maria
> a somewhat confused, occasional wine drinker :-)

I believe the development of cooking wine has something to do with laws
regarding wine sales. In many US states, it was (and often still is)
illegal to sell "normal" wines in places other than liquor stores.
Cooking wines were okay to sell in grocery stores.

-T

"Bernard Arnest" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Hi,
> In recipes that call for white wine, is cooking wine from the grocery
> store fine, or does it offer poor flavor, too much salt, or conflict
> with the rest of the seasoning vs. standard wine? I ask because this
> is my first year in college, and I'm 18, thus cooking wine is really
> the only wine, but I want to know how it might affect a recipe and how
> I might compensate.
>
> If non-cooking-wine is the way to go (at least when home, and my dad
> can buy it), do you have any best-value recommendations? Since it's
> cooked and not drunk, is the dirt cheapest the way to go...?
>
>
> thanks!
> -Bernard Arnest

Keep in mind that wine freezes pretty well. If you are only using a
small amount, pour the rest in ice cube trays, and then move it to
plastic bags after it freezes.

-T

Richard Green wrote:
> Hi Bernard,
> In your situation I wouldn't waste my money on white wine for cooking. Get
> yourself a big bottle of dry vermouth. Its cheap, you only need half the
> amount, it works well in cooking and you won't be tempted to drink it "-)

5 parts gin, 1 part dry vermouth, ice, shake (not stir), strain into
glass, add green olive. Why wouldn't you be tempted to drink that?
-aem

Yes.........now you're talking. "Cooking martinis" - forget the bloody
cooking "wine".
"aem" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Richard Green wrote:
>> Hi Bernard,
>> In your situation I wouldn't waste my money on white wine for cooking.
>> Get
>> yourself a big bottle of dry vermouth. Its cheap, you only need half the
>> amount, it works well in cooking and you won't be tempted to drink it "-)
>
> 5 parts gin, 1 part dry vermouth, ice, shake (not stir), strain into
> glass, add green olive. Why wouldn't you be tempted to drink that?
> -aem
>

"skoonj" > wrote in message
...
>
> "MG" > wrote in message
> news
>> <snipped a bit>
>>
>>>> In recipes that call for white wine, is cooking wine from the grocery
>>>> store fine, or does it offer poor flavor, too much salt, or conflict
>>>> with the rest of the seasoning vs. standard wine? >
>>> Whatever you like that's in your budget is fine. Cooking wine from
>>> grocery stores tends to be a bad choice because its mostly salt and low
>>> quality wine.
>>
>> Ok, I have to ask...I've never heard of "cooking wine" as such, and am
>> wondering what the heck is salt doing in wine? I Googled a bit, but
>> didn't find much about why. Cooking wine to me (and I would say with
>> some confidence, most other Aussies) is "normal" wine that you cook with.
>>
>> Granted, maybe I'm just showing some ignorance about stuff from O/S, but
>> I live in a great wine-growing state (Sth Australia) with many wonderful
>> wineries 1 hour North of me (Barossa Valley, Clare Valley), and several
>> others 1 hour South of me (McLaren Vale, Clarendon, the Southern Vales),
>> and maybe even better wine country another couple of hours away
>> (Coonawarra, etc), but I've never heard of salt in wine.
>>
>> I've always followed my parents' advice (mum a great Italian home cook,
>> and dad a chef) that if I couldn't drink the stuff, I shouldn't cook with
>> it, but it was always normal bottled or even cask wine.
>>
>> Thanks in advance
>> Maria
>> a somewhat confused, occasional wine drinker :-)
>
> I believe the development of cooking wine has something to do with laws
> regarding wine sales. In many US states, it was (and often still is)
> illegal to sell "normal" wines in places other than liquor stores. Cooking
> wines were okay to sell in grocery stores.
>
> -T
>

OK, that must be why we don't have that here...it's also illegal here to
sell alcoholic drinks in grocery stores, but manufacturers haven't gone the
path of adding salt to them so they can do so (maybe there's a law against
selling salted wines here? who knows?! lol)

there are a couple of grocery stores/supermarkets which often have their own
liquor store nearby or in the same shopping mall, so I guess it's just as
convenient for the consumer to go there for their alcohol rather than expect
it to be at the supermarket

In article . com>,
"Bernard Arnest" > wrote:

> Hi,
> In recipes that call for white wine, is cooking wine from the grocery
> store fine, or does it offer poor flavor, too much salt, or conflict
> with the rest of the seasoning vs. standard wine? I ask because this
> is my first year in college, and I'm 18, thus cooking wine is really
> the only wine, but I want to know how it might affect a recipe and how
> I might compensate.

> thanks!
> -Bernard Arnest

Don't cook with any wine you wouldn't drink from a glass.
I usually have dry sherry and dry vermouth in the fridge for cooking
purposes. Have never used a recipe that specified a particular kind of
wine, I guess. Neither is very expensive.
--
-Barb, <http://www.jamlady.eboard.com> Sam I Am! updated 9-12-05

In article . com>,
Bernard Arnest > wrote:
> In recipes that call for white wine, is cooking wine from the grocery
>store fine, or does it offer poor flavor, too much salt, or conflict
>with the rest of the seasoning vs. standard wine?

Salt? Ugh. I would never cook with a wine I wouldn't drink from a
glass. Chefs I have asked have told me also, the quality of the
food depends in good part on the quality of the ingredients. Use
poor ingredients, get a poor result.

> If non-cooking-wine is the way to go (at least when home, and my dad
>can buy it), do you have any best-value recommendations? Since it's
>cooked and not drunk, is the dirt cheapest the way to go...?

If there's a Trader Joe's in your area, pick up a few bottles of
"Two Buck Chuck" ...er, Charles Shaw wine. It's $3/bottle, and
quite drinkable all by itself. It's cheap enough that you can use
it for cooking, and tasty enough that you can drink it while you
eat.

-A
[posted and emailed]

In article >, (axlq)
wrote:


> If there's a Trader Joe's in your area, pick up a few bottles of
> "Two Buck Chuck" ...er, Charles Shaw wine. It's $3/bottle, and
> quite drinkable all by itself. It's cheap enough that you can use
> it for cooking, and tasty enough that you can drink it while you
> eat.


I second the recommendation, but the reason that it's called "two buck
Chuck" is because it costs US$1.99, not $3.

> "Bernard Arnest" > wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> In recipes that call for white wine, is cooking wine from the grocery
>> store fine, or does it offer poor flavor, too much salt, or conflict
>> with the rest of the seasoning vs. standard wine? I ask because this
>> is my first year in college, and I'm 18, thus cooking wine is really
>> the only wine, but I want to know how it might affect a recipe and how
>> I might compensate.
>
>> thanks!
>> -Bernard Arnest

Folks, we are not paying attention here. The young man is 18 years old; he
can't buy wine on his own. He's asking how to deal with the fact that he
may be forced to use cooking wine; IOW, how to change his recipes to
compensate or nonalcoholic substitutions.

I can't help, because it's not a situation I've had to deal with (cripes,
I'm old enough to be his grandma). Surely, there are people here who have
dealt with this situation.

Pam

Don't use a wine you wouldn't drink. Also, unless otherwise stated, I
always use a dry white wine, such as sauvignon blanc or chardonnay. I
once used a cask wine in a recipe. It concentrated to a sour taste.
Never again! Nowadays I won't drink cask wine, anyway.

Sherry is not a substitute for white wine.



On 17 Sep 2005 21:20:29 -0700, "Bernard Arnest" >
wrote:

>Hi,
> In recipes that call for white wine, is cooking wine from the grocery
>store fine, or does it offer poor flavor, too much salt, or conflict
>with the rest of the seasoning vs. standard wine? I ask because this
>is my first year in college, and I'm 18, thus cooking wine is really
>the only wine, but I want to know how it might affect a recipe and how
>I might compensate.
>
> If non-cooking-wine is the way to go (at least when home, and my dad
>can buy it), do you have any best-value recommendations? Since it's
>cooked and not drunk, is the dirt cheapest the way to go...?
>
>
> thanks!
> -Bernard Arnest
>

In article >,
"pjjehg" > wrote:

> > "Bernard Arnest" > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >> In recipes that call for white wine, is cooking wine from the grocery
> >> store fine, or does it offer poor flavor, too much salt, or conflict
> >> with the rest of the seasoning vs. standard wine? I ask because this
> >> is my first year in college, and I'm 18, thus cooking wine is really
> >> the only wine, but I want to know how it might affect a recipe and how
> >> I might compensate.
> >
> >> thanks!
> >> -Bernard Arnest
>
> Folks, we are not paying attention here. The young man is 18 years old; he
> can't buy wine on his own. He's asking how to deal with the fact that he
> may be forced to use cooking wine; IOW, how to change his recipes to
> compensate or nonalcoholic substitutions.
>
> I can't help, because it's not a situation I've had to deal with (cripes,
> I'm old enough to be his grandma). Surely, there are people here who have
> dealt with this situation.
>
> Pam
>
>

He could try small amounts of fruit juices.
I'd recommend grape or apple, or even a bit of pineapple.

Hope that helps? :-)
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

Ever work in restaurants and caterings?
"pjjehg" > wrote in message
...
>> "Bernard Arnest" > wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>> In recipes that call for white wine, is cooking wine from the grocery
>>> store fine, or does it offer poor flavor, too much salt, or conflict
>>> with the rest of the seasoning vs. standard wine? I ask because this
>>> is my first year in college, and I'm 18, thus cooking wine is really
>>> the only wine, but I want to know how it might affect a recipe and how
>>> I might compensate.
>>
>>> thanks!
>>> -Bernard Arnest
>
> Folks, we are not paying attention here. The young man is 18 years old;
> he can't buy wine on his own. He's asking how to deal with the fact that
> he may be forced to use cooking wine; IOW, how to change his recipes to
> compensate or nonalcoholic substitutions.
>
> I can't help, because it's not a situation I've had to deal with (cripes,
> I'm old enough to be his grandma). Surely, there are people here who have
> dealt with this situation.
>
> Pam
>

pjjehg wrote:
>>"Bernard Arnest" > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Hi,
>>> In recipes that call for white wine, is cooking wine from the grocery
>>>store fine, or does it offer poor flavor, too much salt, or conflict
>>>with the rest of the seasoning vs. standard wine? I ask because this
>>>is my first year in college, and I'm 18, thus cooking wine is really
>>>the only wine, but I want to know how it might affect a recipe and how
>>>I might compensate.
>>
>>> thanks!
>>> -Bernard Arnest
>
>
> Folks, we are not paying attention here. The young man is 18 years old; he
> can't buy wine on his own. He's asking how to deal with the fact that he
> may be forced to use cooking wine; IOW, how to change his recipes to
> compensate or nonalcoholic substitutions.
>
> I can't help, because it's not a situation I've had to deal with (cripes,
> I'm old enough to be his grandma). Surely, there are people here who have
> dealt with this situation.
>
> Pam
>
>


Use Chinese rice cooking wine (21% ABV and about 1% salt) and leave out
all the salt in the recipe. Other than the salt, it tastes pretty good
and it's not expensive. Taste the dish for salt and adjust when it's
almost done.

Best regards,
Bob

"lorin merriam" wrote
> Ever work in restaurants and caterings?

Hunh? What's that got to do with anything?

Pam

> "pjjehg" < wrote ...
>>> "Bernard Arnest" < wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>> In recipes that call for white wine, is cooking wine from the grocery
>>>> store fine, or does it offer poor flavor, too much salt, or conflict
>>>> with the rest of the seasoning vs. standard wine? I ask because this
>>>> is my first year in college, and I'm 18, thus cooking wine is really
>>>> the only wine, but I want to know how it might affect a recipe and how
>>>> I might compensate.
>>>
>>>> thanks!
>>>> -Bernard Arnest
>>
>> Folks, we are not paying attention here. The young man is 18 years old;
>> he can't buy wine on his own. He's asking how to deal with the fact that
>> he may be forced to use cooking wine; IOW, how to change his recipes to
>> compensate or nonalcoholic substitutions.
>>
>> I can't help, because it's not a situation I've had to deal with (cripes,
>> I'm old enough to be his grandma). Surely, there are people here who
>> have dealt with this situation.
>>
>> Pam
>>
>
>

I think the whole point of his thread is that since he's NOT of age to
buy alcohol, what are his alternatives...

wrote:

> If you have a means to aquire regular wine, ANY WINE you would drink
> is what you
> can cook with.

Its probly a minor quibble in an otherwise informative post,
however....i have met people, young and old, who are marvellous cooks
but not wine savvy (i am not either, but have friends who are) and who
do not know what a 'good' wine is.

I have read about people using wine that has turned to vinegar, i have
known people who have used very bad, strongly acidic or sickeningly
sweet wines to cook with, i personally do not like a wine where the
taste of the alcohol is the dominant flavour, but have met people who
claim to like the taste of a highly acidic wine. I think they like the
effect the alcohol has on them and don't really think about the taste of
it, but that's just my opinion.

Sometimes people are just young and starting out to develop their
palate, other times they are older and discover 'cooking with wine' but
either way an education or at least familiarity with wine is helpful in
using it well.

Various liquors, spirits and exotic wines are even more esoteric but
worth studying.

One of my favourite cooking wines is a relatively inexpensive,
commercial product called "Lancers" vin rose or their cream sherry.
Gallo chenin blanc is kept around for cooking. However, i live near the
Napa wine growing region of northern California and it is almost
impossible NOT to absorb a little wine/food lore, by accident or osmosis
if nothing else.

> It will definitely be a better choice, but with your legal status
> right now you may not have any other source.

There are some very nice tasting 'non - alcohol' wines, regular wines
that have had the alcohol processed out, but they tend to be expensive
and i have never used them, though once i almost bought some bottles of
a non alcoholic champagne, it was just that good, but at the time i
tasted it i was not aware of its non - alcoholic aspect and upon reading
the label decided to spend less money per bottle on a nice Spanish
sparkling wine.

>
>
> I keep both kinds of cooking wine around, and use tons of red cooking
> wine. I
> splash a little into the Prego along with anchovies and maybe some
> small
> shrimps. I use it to marinade burgers, steaks, even salmon and shrimp.

I primarily use it in soups, stews, gravies, & sauces. Though i make a
nice white wine cake and a chocolate cake with port wine. One trick i
learned with wine and baking, cakes, cookies etc. was to reduce the wine
over a very low heat, a cup or so to a few tablespoons.

White wine with chicken and shrimp is one of my favourites but i only
finish the dish with the wine.

I will stew a cooked breast of chicken in beef gravy with a cup or more
of a good burgundy to marvellous effect. Of course red wine in beef
stew is legendary but in my experience with out really good beef in the
pot and a good stock to begin with a good wine wont help.

>
>
> If I was making some big fancy dinner for a party or something I would
> most
> definitely use regular wine for such an event. Day to day cooking wine
> is A OK
> in my book.

I have a small collection of recipes for very fancy dishes that call for
"Grand Vins" i do not think i could use such a wine for cooking even if
i were willing to buy them. At one to several hundreds of dollars a
bottle it is an extravagance i can do with out.

I am a 'no salt' cook, i just never or very rarely see a need for extra
salt in a dish. Popcorn and a big pot of beans is an exception. But
even so i can not share your acceptance of the salted 'cooking wines' i
have tried several and they were all equally abominable in my opinion.
The worst of the lot being a Chinese shao xing rice 'cooking wine' the
ordinary version of which is acceptable for Asian recipes but is
definitely a different taste of wine than European grape or fruit based
wines. I prefer a good Japanese saki to a Chinese shao xing. Equal
parts of saki, sesame oil and soy sauce is one of my favourites, can
equally be used to stir fry, marinate, as a dip, or a sauce.
---
JL

In article .com>,
"~john" > wrote:

> I think the whole point of his thread is that since he's NOT of age to
> buy alcohol, what are his alternatives...

Simple. Get someone who is of age to buy him some cooking wine.

"aem" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Richard Green wrote:
> > Hi Bernard,
> > In your situation I wouldn't waste my money on white wine for cooking.
Get
> > yourself a big bottle of dry vermouth. Its cheap, you only need half the
> > amount, it works well in cooking and you won't be tempted to drink it
"-)
>
> 5 parts gin, 1 part dry vermouth, ice, shake (not stir), strain into
> glass, add green olive. Why wouldn't you be tempted to drink that?
> -aem

This is one of my favourite summer cocktails - 1 measure extra dry vermouth,
2 measures Southern Comfort, VERY tall glass, ice, fill to top with real
lemon sparkling lemonade (or sweetened lemon juice with soda will do,
although it could do with lemon oils added).

Even friends who strongly dislike either SC or vermouth have been
converted - refreshing, doesn't taste alcoholic, easy to over-do it,
heheheh...


Shaun aRe

Reminds me of my teenage years!

wrote:

> On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:39:24 GMT, Joseph Littleshoes
> >
> wrote:
> >however....i have met people, young and old, who are marvellous cooks
>
> >but not wine savvy (i am not either, but have friends who are) and
> who
> >do not know what a 'good' wine is.
>
> I am not a wine connoisseur, other than I dislike white wine, but will
> drink dry
> or preferably demi sec champagne. If given champagne at a function I
> not turning
> it down if its brut which it most commonly is, free booze! : ) White
> wine as a
> drink I will pass on, cooking wise I will use it.

I rarely drink wine of any sort, the holidays being an exception and
champagne the drink of choice with wine, i used to get a 'critte' (sp?)
extra brute but have not been able to find it in years. I have had a
local merlot that was interesting but i am very susceptible to the
sulphides.

>
>
> I like sweet wines, and hence my favorites are cheap and fruit "fluff"
> that
> would send most connoisseur into a fit.

I have a friend that thinks maneschvits (sp?) is the best, but its way
too sweet for me. Though i have had a pear wine from the Loire valley
in France that was excellent.

>
>
> My definition of "good wine" = any wine YOU PERSONALLY WOULD DRINK or
> LIKE. If
> you don't like xxxx don't cook with it sub a favorite in its place.
>
> >Sometimes people are just young and starting out to develop their
> >palate, other times they are older and discover 'cooking with wine'
> but
> >either way an education or at least familiarity with wine is helpful
> in
> >using it well.
>
> Cooking with wine or alcohol in general has been a long process for
> me. For
> some things I will open the bottle and "splash" in some amount. These
> are
> recipes that I have built up over time. Some I am still working on. :
> )

I often 'deglaze' pans with wine and let it reduce a bit to form a few
tbs. of a nice sauce.

>
>
> >Various liquors, spirits and exotic wines are even more esoteric but
> >worth studying.
>
> My current fascination is Absinithe, not that fake stuff, the REAL
> STUFF. It
> came after watching Green Fairys being made on Carnivale.

Ohhh...scary stuff, though i am thinking of trying some salvia divinorum
for the altered state od consciousness it induces.

>
>
> I have interest in wine and learning more, but ultimately taste is
> what sells it
> for me. Be it $3.43 for a 1/2 gallon bottle or a 25 oz bottle at some
> price. If
> I don't like it I am not drinking it.

That's why i am so fond of the Gallo chenine blanc, i think it is an
excellent cooking wine and quite inexpensive, unfortunately Gallo is
getting pretentious and i have never seen it in a gallon jug. Plus
those guests who like wine find it an acceptable tipple, even though i
keep a few bottles of 'good' wine around for drinking.

>
>
> Unfortunately going to a wine tasting and sniffing, and swirling etc..
> is just
> not my thing. I taste it and if I like the taste its a good wine, and
> pretty
> much as long as its red, were good to go.

I have trouble finding reds i like, for drinking or cooking. I have a
few bottles of a 2002 French burgundy that were given to me that are
very good. But i have yet to find an American red i like.

>
>
> >One of my favourite cooking wines is a relatively inexpensive,
> >commercial product called "Lancers" vin rose or their cream sherry.
> >Gallo chenin blanc is kept around for cooking. However, i live near
> the
> >Napa wine growing region of northern California and it is almost
> >impossible NOT to absorb a little wine/food lore, by accident or
> osmosis
> >if nothing else.
>
> I will admit to being some what of a wine snob, and that I am not a
> fan of
> California wines or really any US wine. Thats *me*, and has no real
> bearing on a
> good or bad merits of the product. Given a bottle of red wine one
> saying CA or
> other US state and one saying Product of Italy. I would choose the
> Italian one,
> and it could be a poor choice. This is not based on merit of the
> product and I
> admit its clearly a bias on the state of origin. I am I missing out on
> some good
> wine probably, but then again I wouldn't know anyway.

Chianti and Marsala are two of my favourite cooking wines

>
>
> >There are some very nice tasting 'non - alcohol' wines, regular wines
>
> >that have had the alcohol processed out, but they tend to be
> expensive
>
> I don't get the idea behind non alcoholic wine to cook. Yes a good
> deal of it
> will cook off, but enough remains to make it a key part of the taste.
>
> >the label decided to spend less money per bottle on a nice Spanish
> >sparkling wine.
>
> Thats champagne. I don't adhere to the lanquage/wine gestapo nonsense
> in this
> instance that it has to be made in that region to be called by its
> correct name.
> Champagne is like Xerox is a generic term now to refer to wine in this
> form..
>
> >I primarily use it in soups, stews, gravies, & sauces. Though i make
> a
> >nice white wine cake and a chocolate cake with port wine. One trick
> i
> >learned with wine and baking, cakes, cookies etc. was to reduce the
> wine
> >over a very low heat, a cup or so to a few tablespoons.
>
> Care to share those cake recipes, even the white wine, and the port
> one both
> sound interesting. I've got some port just begging for a use.

If you do a google group search on 'joseph+littleshoes+catalan+cake' you
should be abel to pull up the chocolate cake recipe the same process
should work for the white wine cake. I have posted them both to
'another cooking group' let me know if you cant find them and i can send
you a copy i have saved to file, i would include it here but every time
i try to do so it comes out as an 'attachment' that wont show up in the
group.

Also with the chocolate cake (catalan cake) it appears to be a very
complex recipe but in reality, aside from the port wine reduction it is
easy to make, and the wine reduction is just time consuming more than it
is difficult.

>
>
> >White wine with chicken and shrimp is one of my favourites but i only
>
> >finish the dish with the wine.
>
> The culinary police would have me arrested, if you come to dinner at
> my house
> your going to get red wine. Want white? BRING IT! Drink it, don't get
> it near my
> glass, and please take it home.

You have never tried shrimp, chicken and white wine together? sauté the
chunks of pre cooked chicken breast with the raw shrimp in butter with
garlic and shallots then add a bit of white wine, delicious.

>
>
> >I will stew a cooked breast of chicken in beef gravy with a cup or
> more
> >of a good burgundy to marvellous effect. Of course red wine in beef
>
> Sounds yummy. Care to share that one too?

Very easy, flour, egg and bread crumb the number of chicken half breasts
you want, sauté in hot oil just long enough to set up the out side
coating of the chicken ( the original recipe calls for using only egg
yolk which seems to make a tighter, more durable coating) then place the
coated chicken breasts to simmer in several cups of a good beef gravy,
with about 1 cup of a good, hearty burgundy, simmer for about 20 - 30
minutes, remove chicken with a slotted spoon, give the gravy a stir and
serve.

>
>
> >I have a small collection of recipes for very fancy dishes that call
> for
> >"Grand Vins" i do not think i could use such a wine for cooking even
> if
> >i were willing to buy them. At one to several hundreds of dollars a
> >bottle it is an extravagance i can do with out.
>
> I am sure there are some who would cook with it, thats a little over
> board for
> me as well. I would probably cry pouring it in. Some have this idea
> that the
> more costly the better the wine, OK sheeple herd two your up.
>
> >I am a 'no salt' cook, i just never or very rarely see a need for
> extra
> >salt in a dish. Popcorn and a big pot of beans is an exception. But
>
> >even so i can not share your acceptance of the salted 'cooking wines'
> i
>
> Some things I cook with salt some things I don't, and there is no
> rhyme or
> reason to what or why. Part of the problem is learning to cook both at
> home and
> in a commercial kitchen(s).

I just never ot into the habit, though i will put a pinch of salt in my
vinaigrette.

>
>
> One thing though you will find a salt shaker on my table and its used.
> Go to my
> parents and I have to dig out MY salt shaker. They use no salt and
> cook with no
> salt, thats their choice I respect that, and will season my food
> accordingly.
> They also understand that when they come to my house your not going to
> get white
> water passed off as milk, low fat any thing, sugar free, salt free or
> any thing
> like it. I have real whipped cream, not "dairy like topping," and
> possibly
> whipped cream I made myself if I have time.

I agree, i just never found a need for extra salt, though i am a fiend
with the pepper, have several types on hand and only use freshly
ground. I really like the old fashioned "bavarian cream' just whipped
cream with the addition of gelatine, technically it adds no flavour (but
in my opinion there is a subtle influence) but the texture is very rich,
thick and extra creamy.

>
>
> If your not a salt user or saltaholic, then cooking wines are
> DEFINATELY NOT for
> you. If you don't use salt at all and have not for a long period or
> ever then
> cooking wines are definitely not for you. Like I posted, I could pour
> out a nice
> cup of cooking wine and drink it with the meal. (That should send
> several over
> the edge.)

Oy! i cant imagine drinking the 'cooking' wines. And i have tasted them
but IMO fall under 'execrable abomination' category

>
>
> I think cooking wine and inexpensive wine get a bad rap,

the 'inexpensive' wines i will agree with you about but the 'cooking'
wines i wont waste my money on. But then i like a number of commercial
products that my foodie friends cringe at. Im a sucker for instant
mashed potatoes and hamburger helper, not that i cant make a better
dish, but i sometimes seriously consider buying a bottle of MSG.

> just as I give US wine
> a bad rap. Using cooking wine is all in knowing how to compensate for
> the salt
> in the product and the salt required for your taste in the dish. I've
> mastered
> that for some dishes, others are still a work in progress.

GEnerally the salt naturally occurring in most foods is sufficient for
me, but i keep salt around for popcorn and the big pots of soup and
stews i make. Long cooking is one of the few reasons i will use salt,
and i have found that unnecessary in that a day after the food is cooked
the flavours improve to the point of rendering extra salt superfluous.

>
>
> There are great wines out there that don't have to be super $ that are
> great to
> drink and cook with, and yes there is crap out there thats $$$$ as
> well as -$$$.
>

I have heard of people buying very expensive old wines and ending up
with a bottle of not very good vinegar. I do not understand why these
wine auctions do not open an old bottle to make sure it is still good
before selling it.

> Some one other than me is buying this stuff in the US or megamart
> wouldn't stock
> it. So there are a whole lot of hippocrates out there on cooking wine
> as the
> shelf space is normally pretty bare unless I happen to go just after
> the restock
> crew went through.

Ever read Brillant Savarin' "The physiology of taste" according to the
author (MFK Fisher trans.) the essence of good taste is honesty,
admitting what like and don't like, what 'tastes good' to you and not
being swayed by 'popular opinion'.

I once knew a snob that preferred products with the Royal warrant, i say
'used to' cause after i pointed out to him that, at least as far as most
food products holding the royal warrant go, the Queens household
purchases these products for staff & servants to use and not for the
Royal table. He did not like that.

Even the champagne (Bollinger iirc) with the royal warrant is used for
large gatherings rather than personal consumption by the Queen & family
who are by and large teetotallers, Margaret & her Mum, now deceased,
being the exception, even the scotch with the warrant is served to
guests, the Queens own is a private reserve made just for her, which she
usually gives away in 5 gallon kegs as gifts to visiting dignitaries.
---
JL

"Joseph Littleshoes" > wrote in message
...
> wrote:

> Ohhh...scary stuff, though i am thinking of trying some salvia divinorum
> for the altered state od consciousness it induces.

You want scary, you've likely got it right there with that stuff Joseph.
Like nothing else on earth I've *ever* come across, and believe me I have
come across some stuff indeed. You read much about it? Read any experiences?
If not then do yourself a favour and do before giving it a go - will help
you get the most out of it and may even prepare you a little for what's to
come, but no matter - you will be shocked ',;~}~

http://www.erowid.org/plants/salvia/salvia.shtml

Check out the experiences section ',;~}~

Hope I've been of some help. If you already know all this then just ignore!

Shaun aRe

Shaun aRe wrote:

> "Joseph Littleshoes" > wrote in message
> ...
> > wrote:
>
> > Ohhh...scary stuff, though i am thinking of trying some salvia
> divinorum
> > for the altered state od consciousness it induces.
>
> You want scary, you've likely got it right there with that stuff
> Joseph.
> Like nothing else on earth I've *ever* come across, and believe me I
> have
> come across some stuff indeed. You read much about it? Read any
> experiences?
> If not then do yourself a favour and do before giving it a go - will
> help
> you get the most out of it and may even prepare you a little for
> what's to
> come, but no matter - you will be shocked ',;~}~

I have read varying accounts of the effect, some in praise of it others
much as you describe. I tend to think the 'scary' aspect has more to do
with the person taking the drug than it does with the drug itself.

People with a lot of unresolved complexities, self doubt, guilt, greed,
fear etc. will tend to get more difficult experiences with just about
any mind altering substance. I theorize that the drug is neutral in the
quality of the experience and that the classic 'bad trip' has more to do
with the individual than the drug. I was rather disappointed with the
single Ayawaska (sp?) experience i had, it was so mild as to be not much
different than Hawaiian wood rose. Mad me sleepy.
---
JL

>
>
> http://www.erowid.org/plants/salvia/salvia.shtml
>
> Check out the experiences section ',;~}~
>
> Hope I've been of some help. If you already know all this then just
> ignore!
>
> Shaun aRe

"Joseph Littleshoes" > wrote in message
...
> Shaun aRe wrote:
>
> > "Joseph Littleshoes" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > Ohhh...scary stuff, though i am thinking of trying some salvia
> > divinorum
> > > for the altered state od consciousness it induces.
> >
> > You want scary, you've likely got it right there with that stuff
> > Joseph.
> > Like nothing else on earth I've *ever* come across, and believe me I
> > have
> > come across some stuff indeed. You read much about it? Read any
> > experiences?
> > If not then do yourself a favour and do before giving it a go - will
> > help
> > you get the most out of it and may even prepare you a little for
> > what's to
> > come, but no matter - you will be shocked ',;~}~
>
> I have read varying accounts of the effect, some in praise of it others
> much as you describe. I tend to think the 'scary' aspect has more to do
> with the person taking the drug than it does with the drug itself.

Indeed and I agree, to an extent - with this the sheer speed, power and
force of the experience can seriously unnerve even the most well balanced
and calm psychonaut. Don't get me wrong, I find SD experiences valuable,
just they /can/ be difficult outside of the points you make here. It isn't
*like* anything else, not at all, and yet to most feels so damned familiar.
Deja-vu feelings of a very strong nature are commonly reported. - Hey - I
ain't trying to talk you out of it, not in the least!

> People with a lot of unresolved complexities, self doubt, guilt, greed,
> fear etc. will tend to get more difficult experiences with just about
> any mind altering substance. I theorize that the drug is neutral in the
> quality of the experience and that the classic 'bad trip' has more to do
> with the individual than the drug. I was rather disappointed with the
> single Ayawaska (sp?) experience i had, it was so mild as to be not much
> different than Hawaiian wood rose. Mad me sleepy.

A too small dose by the sounds of it... Heh, but pure smoked DMT and/or
5-Meo-DMT can be quite the shock, heheheh...

Shaun aRe

wrote:

> On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 18:15:10 GMT, Joseph Littleshoes
> >
> wrote:
>
>
> >If you do a google group search on 'joseph+littleshoes+catalan+cake'
> you
>
> I'll advise my results, don't have a lot of time to play during the
> week.
>
> Here is one I found real quick:
> http://tftb.com/deify/JosephsCatalan.html

That's the one. The site also has my chocolate mint figs recipe and a
chocolate egg and butter recipe.

>
>
> >You have never tried shrimp, chicken and white wine together? sauté
> the
> >chunks of pre cooked chicken breast with the raw shrimp in butter
> with
> >garlic and shallots then add a bit of white wine, delicious.
>
> Sounds great, but I read with = drink. Will add it to my "experiments
> list" for
> the lab. I not big on chicken so I don't cook it too much.

The chicken, shrimp and garlic & shallots are first cooked in butter
then a half cup of white wine added and allowed to simmer for a minute
or two.

> >the inexpensive' wines i will agree with you about but the 'cooking'
> >wines i wont waste my money on. But then i like a number of
> commercial
> >products that my foodie friends cringe at. Im a sucker for instant
> >mashed potatoes and hamburger helper, not that i cant make a better
> >dish, but i sometimes seriously consider buying a bottle of MSG.
>
> Couldn't make and never have been able to make decent mashed potatoes,
> I quit
> trying. I've tried, tons of times, harmed numerous amounts of potatoes
> for the
> cause and its the same, too pasty or too runny. Theres never that
> happy medium
> resulting in mashed potatoes. Just wall paper paste. I am not afraid
> to admit
> it, and I've told any one when it mattered job wise. At home some one
> else makes
> them, their instant or they come from those prepared packages. I
> probably should
> try again as my two sources of the real thing are not going to be
> around too
> much longer.

When i have the time and energy i like new potatoes either red or white
and simmer till just barely soft with a few cloves of peeled garlic,
then drain, mash, add butter and milk/cream a little at a time till you
achieve the desired consistency.

If the potatoes are boiled too long they will dissolve in the water or
absorb so much water that they are mushy no matter what you do. A few
years ago i was watching a person make 'hash browns' and after grating
the potatoes they put them in a cheese cloth and squeezed as much water
as they could out of them, then proceeded to fry them up in hot canoloa
oil, they turn out light and golden brown and with a nicely crisp out
side.

I tried for many years to get that crispy golden brown effect but it
never occurred to me to squeeze the water out of the raw potatoes. My
previous attempts resulted in a grey soggy mess.

>
>
> >Ever read Brillant Savarin' "The physiology of taste" according to
> the
> >author (MFK Fisher trans.) the essence of good taste is honesty,
> >admitting what you like and don't like, what 'tastes good' to you
> and not
> >being swayed by 'popular opinion'.
>
> No, but I might next time I find time.... I eat what I like, when I
> want, as
> much as I want and I have pretty much one rule taste good & like it.

Its a good read, just for pleasure alone and full of interesting titbits
of information, Though i am a fan of MFK Fisher as a writer.

>
>
> >I once knew a snob that preferred products with the Royal warrant, i
> say
> >'used to' cause after i pointed out to him that, at least as far as
> most
>
> I am not sure I get the gist of this "Royal Warrant?" Can you
> elaborate?? ? ?
> They mark the food purchased by Buckingham as being purchased for
> them? ? ? As a
> sales gimmick I guess?? ?

The Queen, Prince Philip and Prince Charles allow certain companies to
use their "coat of arms" in the companies advertising. For most things,
cigarettes, cleaning fluid, crackers etc. the products are purchased for
use by the staff of Buck house and Windsor castle & the Queens private
residences. And supposedly are a mark of quality, but in reality the
queen is not aware of what kind of brushes her maids use to dust with,
or what spot remover the footmen use and rarely eats any food not
produced on her own farms and prepared by her own cooks.

There is a restaurant here in San Francisco, "The Stinking Rose Cafe"
that has banned the Queen from the cafe for her statements regarding
garlic.

There are exceptions, Garrards are (or were, last time i checked) the
"Crown Jewellers" the auto company that makes "Range Rovers" and a few
other very posh, expensive purveyors of various products that are used
by the Royal family.

Its a status thing in Britain, not long ago an architect added the Royal
arms to the structure of a building in bas relief and the Queen forced
them to remove it. The collage of heralds is a government body in
Britain and enforces the rules regarding the public display of 'arms'.
They even tried to stop a Scottish guy from naming his daughter
"Princess" ...they lost that case in the courts and the guy was abel to
legally call his daughter Princess, though i am almost certain the kid
will probly resent it in time.

>
>
> As for brands I buy what ever I like may be store brand may be a
> national brand
> maybe local or regional brand. What ever I like. I am not tied into
> one brand
> of any thing unless its the only thing on the shelf.

I have found that generic canned tomato sauce is better than brand name,
i have been told that national brands are blander than regional
generics.

>
>
> Winn Dixie makes a decent banana ice cream, just plain banana, not
> some combo.
> Its cheap, its not all natural flavors, but it suffices. All the other
> stuff is
> banana strawberry or something, no thanks.

I buy a decent local vanilla triple cream and add my own flavours, baked
garlic being one of my favourites but i will add mashed and chopped
bananas, fresh strawberries etc. A local ice cream maker does a pumpkin
ice cream this time of year that i have never been abel to duplicate and
will go out of my way to purchase.
---
JL