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  #41 (permalink)   Report Post  
zxcvbob
 
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Sheldon wrote:
> jmcquown wrote:
>
>>Sheldon wrote:
>>
>> I've been invited to dinners
>>
>>>where I was served reheated rotisserie deli chicken, served with the
>>>pretence of home made from scratch... the only from scratch was
>>>transfering it to a fancy serving platter, with tongs.
>>>
>>>Sheldon

>>
>>Lots of people do that. I don't really understand why. I mean, I
>>understand the convenience. But by the same token, I've never had anyone
>>serve up a spiral-sliced ham and pretend they did the spiral slicing
>>themselves. In fact, it's usually announced - hey, we got a spiral-sliced
>>ham!

>
>
> Well, then those boneheads need to learn how to bone a ham. duh
> They'd save a lot of money, and it would be better ham too... spiral
> cut is
> low grade ham at a high grade price.
>
> Btw, serving ANY smoked ham is never from scratch, not unless you
> smoked it yourself. Smoked ham is strictly a convenience food... all
> preserved foods are... you mean like opening the lid on a can of tuna
> makes that tuna salad a from scratch creation, no way... then you may
> as well call your morning flakies from scratch because you poured in
> the milk and sugar yourself.
>
> Sheldon
>



I've smoked a ham from a hog that I helped butcher too. What's your
point? Do *you* grow your own wheat (I've never done that) or do you
buy flour?

-Bob
  #42 (permalink)   Report Post  
Sheldon
 
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Nancy Young wrote:
> "Sheldon" wrote
>
> > Well, then those boneheads need to learn how to bone a ham. duh

>
> Why would I want to bone a ham? Something weird about a
> boneless ham, I guess it's canned ham flashbacks.


Nothing weird, and nothing like canned... takes all of five minutes,
two minutes to remove the aitch bone, another three minutes to cut out
the shank bone. Then after heating it's a breeze to carve. I really
don't like spiral cut hams; they're typically a poor grade of ham and I
don't like how they're sliced so thick, about twice as thick as I'd
prefer. I almost always bone fresh ham before cooking too.

Sheldon

  #43 (permalink)   Report Post  
Terry Pulliam Burd
 
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On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:22:12 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

<snip>

>Most home made pies are a bargain compared to bakery prices, and if you find
>pie making easy it is well worth it to do it yourself.


I bake a pie most weekends for the DH's sack lunches through the
following week. I've never seen a commercially prepared pie that
compares to homemade - they cannot afford the premium ingredients I
use at home. No fillers, for instance, other than cornstarch, and not
very much of that.

And I can't imagine buying pre-made pie crusts or even the
boxed-and-add-water stuff. How hard is it to make a scratch pie crust?

One of my faves:

@@@@@ Now You're Cooking! Export Format

Buttermilk Pie Crust Dough

desserts

2 1/2 cups flour
2 tablespoons sugar
1 teaspoon salt
1/2 cup butter; diced
1/2 cup shortening
1/4 cup + 2 T. buttermilk

Combine flour, sugar and salt in large bowl. Add butter and
shortening. Cut in using hands or pastry blender until mixture
resembles coarse meal. Add buttermilk and stir with fork until mois
clumps form. (Dough can also be prepared in processor. Using on/off
turns, cut butter and shortening into dry ingredients until coarse
meal forms. Add buttermilk and process just until moist clumps form.)
Press together to form dough. Divide dough in half. Gather dough into
balls; flatten into disks. Wrap separately and chill 1 hour. (Can be
prepared ahead. Refrigerate 1 week or freeze 1 month. Let dough stand
at room temperature to soften slightly before using.)

Contributor: Bon Appetit

Yield: 8 servings

<snip>

Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
AAC(F)BV66.0748.CA

"If the soup had been as hot as the claret, if the claret had been as
old as the bird, and if the bird's breasts had been as full as the
waitress's, it would have been a very good dinner."

-- Duncan Hines

To reply, replace "spaminator" with "cox"
  #44 (permalink)   Report Post  
Terry Pulliam Burd
 
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On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 19:56:44 GMT, (Curly
Sue) wrote:

<snip>

>Good bakeries have the skill, the time, and the equipment to do
>things beyond what most of us can do easily. I've seen recipes for
>sfogliatelle, but I don't know anyone who makes them. Very
>labor-intensive.


<snip>

Yahbut, one of the reasons I cook is b/c I *like* to cook, and just
creating something interesting is worth it even though I may only make
it once in a blue moon. I may be able to buy it, in this case at a
bakery, but just working through a unique recipe is fun for me. And I
just *love* it when someone exclaims, "You *made* this???" Yeah, I
made it. Because I can :-)

@@@@@ Now You're Cooking! Export Format

Sfogliatelle

desserts

1 1 -pound package frozen puff pastry
4 tablespoons butter, melted
confectioners' sugar
cinnamon
parchment paper, optional
filling:
1 cup milk
1/4 cup semolina flour
1 cup whole milk ricotta cheese; well drained
1 large egg, beaten
1/4 cup sugar
1 tablespoon grated lemon zest

Defrost puff pastry according to package directions.

To make the filling:

In a saucepan, bring the milk to a boil over medium high heat. Add the
semolina flour in a thin, steady stream, stirring constantly with a
wooden spoon until mixture is smooth and thick, about 3 to 4 minutes.
Transfer to a bowl and let cool 5 minutes. Add the cheese, egg, sugar
and lemon zest to the mixture and beat well. Set aside. Preheat oven
to 425 degrees. Line 2 cookie sheets with parchment paper.

Roll 1 sheet of pastry out to a 16-by-22-inch rectangle on a floured
and preferably cold surface (marble slab works well). Starting at a
short end, brush one third of the sheet with the melted butter and
begin rolling the pastry sheet tightly like a jelly roll; brush the
remaining two thirds of the sheet with butter and roll up. Cut the
roll into 2-inch-thick slices. Form each piece into a small seashell
shape by pushing your thumbs against the center of the piece and
spreading it out. Fill each shell with about 2 tablespoons filling.
Bake for 15 minutes or until golden brown. Cool on cookie sheet for
about 2 minutes, then transfer to racks to cool completely. To serve,
sprinkle with powdered sugar and sprinkle a line of cinnamon down
center of each Sfogliatelle.

Yield: makes about 16.

Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
AAC(F)BV66.0748.CA

"If the soup had been as hot as the claret, if the claret had been as
old as the bird, and if the bird's breasts had been as full as the
waitress's, it would have been a very good dinner."

-- Duncan Hines

To reply, replace "spaminator" with "cox"
  #45 (permalink)   Report Post  
Terry Pulliam Burd
 
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On 10 Sep 2005 13:37:57 -0700, "ntantiques" >
wrote:

wrote:


>> Can you guys name other stuff?

>
>Soups. Besides tasting much better, they make the kitchen smell great
>while they're cooking. My standby is a hearty vegetable beef w/barley
>which I make in a big stockpot and freeze for later.


<snip>

So, you going to cough up the recipe or what? I have a vegetable beef
barley that is so-so and I wouldn't call it "hearty." OTOH, I did go
to the trouble of buying some pot barley. Cannot believe I used pearl
barley all these years and didn't know about pot barley. Difference is
night and day.

Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
AAC(F)BV66.0748.CA

"If the soup had been as hot as the claret, if the claret had been as
old as the bird, and if the bird's breasts had been as full as the
waitress's, it would have been a very good dinner."

-- Duncan Hines

To reply, replace "spaminator" with "cox"


  #46 (permalink)   Report Post  
Bob
 
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Nancy replied to Sheldon:

>> spiral cut is low grade ham at a high grade price.

>
> Depends. I've had some very good ones, but I've also had really
> crappy unspiral sliced hams. Hams are iffy in my opinion.


The last spiral-sliced ham I bought was a "Kirkland" ham for a Christmas
several years ago. I got it at Costco and the quality was good. (In fact,
the positive reviews posted here about that brand of ham were what put
the idea in my head in the first place.)

Bob


  #47 (permalink)   Report Post  
Damsel in dis Dress
 
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Terry Pulliam Burd > said:

> So, you going to cough up the recipe or what? I have a vegetable beef
> barley that is so-so and I wouldn't call it "hearty." OTOH, I did go
> to the trouble of buying some pot barley. Cannot believe I used pearl
> barley all these years and didn't know about pot barley. Difference is
> night and day.


I made beef and barley soup one day, using only what I had in the house.
You can use whichever veggies you l like. Damn, I wish Crash liked
cabbage!

I've never heard of pot barley. How is it different from pearled barley?


* Exported from MasterCook *

Damsel's Vegetable Beef Soup with Barley

Recipe By amsel in dis Dress
Serving Size : 0 Preparation Time :0:00
Categories : soups/chowders

Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
-------- ------------ --------------------------------
2 cups water
46 ounces tomato juice
1 pound cooked beef -- 1/2" cubes
2 cloves garlic
3 large carrots -- sliced 1/4" thick
3 tablespoons worcestershire sauce
1 teaspoon Kitchen Bouquet
1/4 teaspoon onion powder
1/2 teaspoon thyme
1/2 teaspoon basil
2 small bay leaves
2 cans Mexi-Corn
1 can green beans -- with liquid
1/3 cup pearl barley -- quick cooking
1/4 cup dry red wine
parmesan cheese -- for garnish

Combine water, tomato juice, beef, garlic, carrots and seasonings in a
large saucepan. Cook for 30 minutes.
Add corn, beans, and barley - cook for another 20 minutes.
Add wine - simmer for 10 minutes more.
Serve with parmesan cheese on top.


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
  #48 (permalink)   Report Post  
Mr Libido Incognito
 
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Damsel in dis Dress wrote on 10 Sep 2005 in rec.food.cooking

> I've never heard of pot barley. How is it different from pearled barley?
>


Yes you have! I told you about it a couple years back.
Pearl Barely is polished...Pot barely isn't.


--
The eyes are the mirrors....
But the ears...Ah the ears.
The ears keep the hat up.
  #49 (permalink)   Report Post  
Bob
 
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Sandi wrote:

> I don't know any Americans who return to the US for health care except
> those who are using the VA...and IMHO VA hospitals are on a par with
> central American public hospitals - death traps staffed by incompetent
> boobs masquarading as doctors.



I had a good friend who underwent a "complete" VA physical exam a couple
years ago. A month later, he went to a private doctor because he was feeling
ill, and didn't feel up to driving the extra 80 miles to a VA doctor. The
private doctor found that my friend had Stage 4 leukemia. There's no way in
the world that he *didn't* have leukemia just a month earlier, but the VA
doctor completely missed it.

Since Sheldon is retired from the military and is a cheap ******* like all
his ilk, I bet he *does* get his medical care from the VA. With any luck,
that'll hasten his death.

Bob


  #50 (permalink)   Report Post  
Damsel in dis Dress
 
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Mr Libido Incognito > said:

> Damsel in dis Dress wrote on 10 Sep 2005 in rec.food.cooking
>
> > I've never heard of pot barley. How is it different from pearled barley?

>
> Yes you have! I told you about it a couple years back.
> Pearl Barely is polished...Pot barely isn't.


I can't remember a couple minutes ago, and you expect me to remember a
couple *years* ago? LOL! I'll watch for it when we go shopping. I love
barley.

Thanks, bro!
Carol


  #51 (permalink)   Report Post  
Damsel in dis Dress
 
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"Bob" > said:

> Since Sheldon is retired from the military and is a cheap ******* like all
> his ilk, I bet he *does* get his medical care from the VA. With any luck,
> that'll hasten his death.


Why does everyone want this guy dead? Being mean and obnoxious aren't
death penalty offenses in most states. And sometimes he's helpful.

Carol
  #52 (permalink)   Report Post  
zxcvbob
 
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Damsel in dis Dress wrote:
> "Bob" > said:
>
>
>>Since Sheldon is retired from the military and is a cheap ******* like all
>>his ilk, I bet he *does* get his medical care from the VA. With any luck,
>>that'll hasten his death.

>
>
> Why does everyone want this guy dead? Being mean and obnoxious aren't
> death penalty offenses in most states. And sometimes he's helpful.
>
> Carol



I don't think anyone has suggested killing him, some just wish he would
hurry up and die (or otherwise go away forever.) HTH :-)

-Bob
  #53 (permalink)   Report Post  
Bob
 
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Carol wrote about Sheldon:

> Why does everyone want this guy dead? Being mean and obnoxious aren't
> death penalty offenses in most states. And sometimes he's helpful.


Almost all of Sheldon's "help" is simply cut-and-pasted from other web
sites. When it *isn't* from a web site, he's fabricating what he writes,
drawing from a mishmash of virulent personal bigotry and
incorrectly-remembered things from his long-departed youth.

Still, there's a difference between making a claim that someone has violated
a criminal law for which the penalty is death and simply thinking that the
world would be a better place without that person.

If being mean and obnoxious *were* punishable by death, Sheldon would have
been on Death Row long ago.

Bob


  #54 (permalink)   Report Post  
Mr Libido Incognito
 
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Damsel in dis Dress wrote on 10 Sep 2005 in rec.food.cooking

> Mr Libido Incognito > said:
>
> > Damsel in dis Dress wrote on 10 Sep 2005 in rec.food.cooking
> >
> > > I've never heard of pot barley. How is it different from pearled
> > > barley?

> >
> > Yes you have! I told you about it a couple years back.
> > Pearl Barely is polished...Pot barely isn't.

>
> I can't remember a couple minutes ago, and you expect me to remember a
> couple *years* ago? LOL! I'll watch for it when we go shopping. I
> love barley.
>
> Thanks, bro!
> Carol
>


Pot barley is cheaper and slightly larger as well.

--
The eyes are the mirrors....
But the ears...Ah the ears.
The ears keep the hat up.
  #55 (permalink)   Report Post  
ntantiques
 
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Terry Pulliam Burd wrote:
> On 10 Sep 2005 13:37:57 -0700, "ntantiques" >
> wrote:
>
> wrote:

>
> >> Can you guys name other stuff?

> >
> >Soups. Besides tasting much better, they make the kitchen smell great
> >while they're cooking. My standby is a hearty vegetable beef w/barley
> >which I make in a big stockpot and freeze for later.

>
> <snip>
>
> So, you going to cough up the recipe or what? I have a vegetable beef
> barley that is so-so and I wouldn't call it "hearty." OTOH, I did go
> to the trouble of buying some pot barley. Cannot believe I used pearl
> barley all these years and didn't know about pot barley. Difference is
> night and day.
>
> Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
> AAC(F)BV66.0748.CA
>
> "If the soup had been as hot as the claret, if the claret had been as
> old as the bird, and if the bird's breasts had been as full as the
> waitress's, it would have been a very good dinner."
>
> -- Duncan Hines
>
> To reply, replace "spaminator" with "cox"




  #56 (permalink)   Report Post  
Allan Matthews
 
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On 10 Sep 2005 17:37:00 -0700, "Sheldon" > wrote:

>
>Nancy Young wrote:
>> "Sheldon" wrote
>>
>> > Well, then those boneheads need to learn how to bone a ham. duh

>>
>> Why would I want to bone a ham? Something weird about a
>> boneless ham, I guess it's canned ham flashbacks.

>
>Nothing weird, and nothing like canned... takes all of five minutes,
>two minutes to remove the aitch bone, another three minutes to cut out
>the shank bone. Then after heating it's a breeze to carve. I really
>don't like spiral cut hams; they're typically a poor grade of ham and I
>don't like how they're sliced so thick, about twice as thick as I'd
>prefer. I almost always bone fresh ham before cooking too.
>
>Sheldon


Sheldon. a ham is cut without the aitch bone being attached. You have
never in your life removed that bone from a ham you have purchased.The
aitch bone is really the front of the pelvis.

  #57 (permalink)   Report Post  
Melba's Jammin'
 
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In article >, Terry Pulliam
Burd > wrote:
> So, you going to cough up the recipe or what? I have a vegetable beef
> barley that is so-so and I wouldn't call it "hearty." OTOH, I did go
> to the trouble of buying some pot barley. Cannot believe I used pearl
> barley all these years and didn't know about pot barley. Difference is
> night and day.
>
> Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
> AAC(F)BV66.0748.CA


How is it different? And where'd you get it? I think all I've ever
seen is pearl (pearled?) barley.
--
-Barb, <http://www.jamlady.eboard.com> Several notes since 8/18/05,
including the Blue Ribbon Brownie Recipe and a sad note added
this evening, 8/27/05.
  #58 (permalink)   Report Post  
Mr Libido Incognito
 
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Melba's Jammin' wrote on 11 Sep 2005 in rec.food.cooking

> How is it different? And where'd you get it? I think all I've ever
> seen is pearl (pearled?) barley.
>


In my Safeway and my Extrafoods I find it right beside the pearl barley.
Usually near the soup making stuff.

--
The eyes are the mirrors....
But the ears...Ah the ears.
The ears keep the hat up.
  #60 (permalink)   Report Post  
SD
 
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Damsel in dis Dress wrote:
> "Bob" > said:
>
> > Since Sheldon is retired from the military and is a cheap ******* like all
> > his ilk, I bet he *does* get his medical care from the VA. With any luck,
> > that'll hasten his death.

>
> Why does everyone want this guy dead? Being mean and obnoxious aren't
> death penalty offenses in most states. And sometimes he's helpful.
>
> Carol


Oh..I don't want him dead. I was just comparing Central American public
hospitals to some publicly run hospitals in the US....the are both
death traps.

SD



  #61 (permalink)   Report Post  
enigma
 
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"Mike Pearce" > wrote in
ups.com:

> I'd actually like to raise my own chickens for both meat
> and eggs, but I don't want to make the trade-off to live
> somewhere else where raising chickens would be practical.


you wouldn't want to raise them for meat after you had to
pluck one. gutting is nothing, but plucking is just a
*huge* pain in the butt. OTOH, if you aren't planning to roast
it, you could just skin it & skip the whole boiling water &
tweezers for the pin feathers mess...
my chickens are for eggs because i hate plucking.
lee
--
war is peace
freedom is slavery
ignorance is strength
1984-George Orwell
  #63 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dave Smith
 
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Curly Sue wrote

> Of course people can bake for fun and/or challenge. I just don't
> agree with the statement that almost anything baked is better at home
> and it's just a matter of following a recipe. I would hope that a
> baker with years of experience who makes their living at it, would do
> better than someone who gets a recipe and tries something once.


I think that the challenge for professional bakers is to mass produce their
goods on a scale that is profitable and maintain high standards of
quality. Once the process becomes mechanized the quality goes downhill.
Good baking is a time consuming process that works well at home, but
quality almost always slips when you start mass producing the stuff.



  #64 (permalink)   Report Post  
Sheldon
 
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Dave Smith wrote:
> Curly Sue wrote
>
> > Of course people can bake for fun and/or challenge. I just don't
> > agree with the statement that almost anything baked is better at home
> > and it's just a matter of following a recipe. I would hope that a
> > baker with years of experience who makes their living at it, would do
> > better than someone who gets a recipe and tries something once.

>
> I think that the challenge for professional bakers is to mass produce their
> goods on a scale that is profitable and maintain high standards of
> quality. Once the process becomes mechanized the quality goes downhill.
> Good baking is a time consuming process that works well at home, but
> quality almost always slips when you start mass producing the stuff.


The last thing to slip with mass produced baked goods is quality... if
the quality of mass produced baked goods slipped one iota it would
become compost.
You're making the leap to comparing the neighborhood bakery with the
national bakery, something you obviously know nothing about.

Neighborhood bakeries are not into mass production, most everything is
done by hand the same as one would at home, just on larger scale.
Yeah, they have stand mixers too but much larger... they produce a
thousand muffins exactly the same way a dozen is produced at home...
well not really, at home most folks scoop the batter with some kind of
spoon, it's slow, messy, laborious, and not very consistant...
professinal bakers scoop batter with their hands, it's very fast, no
mess, extremely consistant, and labor is practically effortless, a
professional baker can fill twelve dozen muffins and be onto the next
gross while you're still futzing with your first dozen... you won't
find rubber spatulas in a bakery, they use the scrapers located at the
ends of their arms... really very few hand tools/gadgets in a bakery,
most every operation is done with hands. The most important and
highest paid position in a neighborhood bakery is the finisher, and
that is all hand work, decorating is done one at a time, no mass
production (to date no one has figured out how to decorate nearly as
well by machine). And they can definitly bake infinitely better
quality products at any neighborhood bakery but as I said in a previous
post they bake at a level appropriate to the economics of the
neighborhood, no sense preparing costly gastronomical delights for
display purposes only, just so poor slobs like you can peer in the
window and drool over what they can't afford.

Of course you know all about the virtues of mass produced, you typical
Twinkie maven.

Mass production baked goods are at a national level, where volume runs
into the millions, where the most critical goal is *consistancy*, not
quality, a very different baking operation... those who do the actual
baking have no baking skills whatsoever, they're minimum wage
production workers... everything is automated, even the finishing work
is done robotically, essentially the only labor needed is 24/7 fork
lift operators and janitorial service. The relatively few tool room
employees who maintain the machinery probably command the highest wages
of anyone in the plant, they're highly skilled mechanics but I doubt
many have ever even baked a box cake. There will be a few QC people
too, they measure, they taste, they don't bake. Those who develop the
recipes are located in a relatively small test kitchen, could even be
on the other coast, because the nationals will maintain several
stratigically located production centers, to keep distribution costs
down, and each regional production center will most usually prepare a
somewhat different version, to satisify the different tastes in the
areas it serves. The test kitchen employees are not professional
bakers, they wouldn't know where to begin in a neighborhood bakery...
they are food scientists, typically chemists, they develop the mass
produced packaged products you find on stupidmarket shelves, they are
NOT professional bakers. I don't consider Twinkies, Ring Dings, Oreos,
Chips Ahoy, and the rest quality baked goods, maybe you do but I call
that dreck.

Dave Smith, quit bluffing... you havent a clue about bakeries... Wonder
bread is mass produced, probably your benchmark.

Sheldon

  #65 (permalink)   Report Post  
Andy
 
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Sheldon wrote:

>
> Dave Smith wrote:
>> Curly Sue wrote
>>
>> > Of course people can bake for fun and/or challenge. I just don't
>> > agree with the statement that almost anything baked is better at
>> > home and it's just a matter of following a recipe. I would hope
>> > that a baker with years of experience who makes their living at it,
>> > would do better than someone who gets a recipe and tries something
>> > once.

>>
>> I think that the challenge for professional bakers is to mass produce
>> their goods on a scale that is profitable and maintain high standards
>> of quality. Once the process becomes mechanized the quality goes
>> downhill. Good baking is a time consuming process that works well at
>> home, but quality almost always slips when you start mass producing
>> the stuff.

>
> The last thing to slip with mass produced baked goods is quality... if
> the quality of mass produced baked goods slipped one iota it would
> become compost.
> You're making the leap to comparing the neighborhood bakery with the
> national bakery, something you obviously know nothing about.
>
> Neighborhood bakeries are not into mass production, most everything is
> done by hand the same as one would at home, just on larger scale.
> Yeah, they have stand mixers too but much larger... they produce a
> thousand muffins exactly the same way a dozen is produced at home...
> well not really, at home most folks scoop the batter with some kind of
> spoon, it's slow, messy, laborious, and not very consistant...
> professinal bakers scoop batter with their hands, it's very fast, no
> mess, extremely consistant, and labor is practically effortless, a
> professional baker can fill twelve dozen muffins and be onto the next
> gross while you're still futzing with your first dozen... you won't
> find rubber spatulas in a bakery, they use the scrapers located at the
> ends of their arms... really very few hand tools/gadgets in a bakery,
> most every operation is done with hands. The most important and
> highest paid position in a neighborhood bakery is the finisher, and
> that is all hand work, decorating is done one at a time, no mass
> production (to date no one has figured out how to decorate nearly as
> well by machine). And they can definitly bake infinitely better
> quality products at any neighborhood bakery but as I said in a
> previous post they bake at a level appropriate to the economics of the
> neighborhood, no sense preparing costly gastronomical delights for
> display purposes only, just so poor slobs like you can peer in the
> window and drool over what they can't afford.
>
> Of course you know all about the virtues of mass produced, you typical
> Twinkie maven.
>
> Mass production baked goods are at a national level, where volume runs
> into the millions, where the most critical goal is *consistancy*, not
> quality, a very different baking operation... those who do the actual
> baking have no baking skills whatsoever, they're minimum wage
> production workers... everything is automated, even the finishing work
> is done robotically, essentially the only labor needed is 24/7 fork
> lift operators and janitorial service. The relatively few tool room
> employees who maintain the machinery probably command the highest
> wages of anyone in the plant, they're highly skilled mechanics but I
> doubt many have ever even baked a box cake. There will be a few QC
> people too, they measure, they taste, they don't bake. Those who
> develop the recipes are located in a relatively small test kitchen,
> could even be on the other coast, because the nationals will maintain
> several stratigically located production centers, to keep distribution
> costs down, and each regional production center will most usually
> prepare a somewhat different version, to satisify the different tastes
> in the areas it serves. The test kitchen employees are not
> professional bakers, they wouldn't know where to begin in a
> neighborhood bakery... they are food scientists, typically chemists,
> they develop the mass produced packaged products you find on
> stupidmarket shelves, they are NOT professional bakers. I don't
> consider Twinkies, Ring Dings, Oreos, Chips Ahoy, and the rest quality
> baked goods, maybe you do but I call that dreck.
>
> Dave Smith, quit bluffing... you havent a clue about bakeries...
> Wonder bread is mass produced, probably your benchmark.
>
> Sheldon



"A bore is someone who opens their mouth and puts their feats in."
--Anonymous


Andy


  #66 (permalink)   Report Post  
Lisa Ann
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Sandi wrote:
>We have Sears - with all the brands they carry in the US
>including linens. Pricesmart=Costco - same brands as Costco plus bulk
>local goods. Restaurants - Tony Romas, Applebee's, TGI Fridays, the
>usual assortment of fast food franchises, Argentinian restaurants with
>imported beef, a wide variety of Asian and Middle Eastern restaurants,
>Cafe du Monde - yes a branch of the new Orleans establishment complete
>with beignets and chicory coffee. Kitchen cabinetry - I can have it
>custom built or I can by pre-fab from Sears, any number of home centers
>(yes..they are calling them home centers and not ferreterias now)or
>even Home Depot. Word on the street is Gutemala City is in line for the
>next Latin American Wal-mart to be built.Yeah..we have do do without a
>lot of stuff here.



LOL - you sound like my aunt, who has lived in El Salvador since the
mid-60s (she married a native). My cousins, who all came to the US for
college, were quite disappointed when they got here...all the stuff
they had at home...and less!

That being said, when they come up to visit...they do bring us coffee
beans they've grown on their own finca...damn, I really need to get
down there...

Lisa Ann

  #67 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dave Smith
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Sheldon wrote:

>
> The last thing to slip with mass produced baked goods is quality... if
> the quality of mass produced baked goods slipped one iota it would
> become compost.
> You're making the leap to comparing the neighborhood bakery with the
> national bakery, something you obviously know nothing about.


Nice try Nancyboy, but you don't have to have to do national bakery quantities to
be mass producing. All you have to do is to produce in large quantity, have
standardized procedures and assembly line techniques to be a mass producer, and
that is what many local bakeries do. They a few people with a bit of experience
or aptitude and a willingness to work nights and give them the directions they
need to follow to meet their standards.

> Mass production baked goods are at a national level, where volume runs
> into the millions, where the most critical goal is *consistancy*, not
> quality, a very different baking operation... those who do the actual
> baking have no baking skills whatsoever, they're minimum wage
> production workers... everything is automated, even the finishing work
> is done robotically, essentially the only labor needed is 24/7 fork


No. That is just mass production on a larger scale.


  #68 (permalink)   Report Post  
Terry Pulliam Burd
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 23:12:40 -0500, Damsel in dis Dress
> wrote:

>Mr Libido Incognito > said:
>
>> Damsel in dis Dress wrote on 10 Sep 2005 in rec.food.cooking
>>
>> > I've never heard of pot barley. How is it different from pearled barley?

>>
>> Yes you have! I told you about it a couple years back.
>> Pearl Barely is polished...Pot barely isn't.

>
>I can't remember a couple minutes ago, and you expect me to remember a
>couple *years* ago? LOL! I'll watch for it when we go shopping. I love
>barley.


It was d*mned hard to find, I'll tell you that, and I had to buy such
a quantity that I will never use up in my lifetime. OTOH, it was dead
cheap. I have found that pot barley doesn't get soggy the way pearled
barley does and its flavor is somehow better. <shrug> Talk about
learning something new every day! In fact, you want some pot barley, I
would gladly send you some.

Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
AAC(F)BV66.0748.CA

"If the soup had been as hot as the claret, if the claret had been as
old as the bird, and if the bird's breasts had been as full as the
waitress's, it would have been a very good dinner."

-- Duncan Hines

To reply, replace "spaminator" with "cox"
  #69 (permalink)   Report Post  
Terry Pulliam Burd
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 07:18:34 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
> wrote:

>In article >, Terry Pulliam
>Burd > wrote:
>> So, you going to cough up the recipe or what? I have a vegetable beef
>> barley that is so-so and I wouldn't call it "hearty." OTOH, I did go
>> to the trouble of buying some pot barley. Cannot believe I used pearl
>> barley all these years and didn't know about pot barley. Difference is
>> night and day.
>>
>> Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
>> AAC(F)BV66.0748.CA

>
>How is it different? And where'd you get it? I think all I've ever
>seen is pearl (pearled?) barley.


I had to hunt all over the net to find it and had to buy a huge gob of
it, so you want some, lemmeno and I'll send you some. For one thing,
it doesn't get soggy the way pearled barley does and its flavor is
better.

Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
AAC(F)BV66.0748.CA

"If the soup had been as hot as the claret, if the claret had been as
old as the bird, and if the bird's breasts had been as full as the
waitress's, it would have been a very good dinner."

-- Duncan Hines

To reply, replace "spaminator" with "cox"
  #70 (permalink)   Report Post  
SD
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Lisa Ann wrote:
> Sandi wrote:
> >We have Sears - with all the brands they carry in the US
> >including linens. Pricesmart=Costco - same brands as Costco plus bulk
> >local goods. Restaurants - Tony Romas, Applebee's, TGI Fridays, the
> >usual assortment of fast food franchises, Argentinian restaurants with
> >imported beef, a wide variety of Asian and Middle Eastern restaurants,
> >Cafe du Monde - yes a branch of the new Orleans establishment complete
> >with beignets and chicory coffee. Kitchen cabinetry - I can have it
> >custom built or I can by pre-fab from Sears, any number of home centers
> >(yes..they are calling them home centers and not ferreterias now)or
> >even Home Depot. Word on the street is Gutemala City is in line for the
> >next Latin American Wal-mart to be built.Yeah..we have do do without a
> >lot of stuff here.

>
>
> LOL - you sound like my aunt, who has lived in El Salvador since the
> mid-60s (she married a native). My cousins, who all came to the US for
> college, were quite disappointed when they got here...all the stuff
> they had at home...and less!
>
> That being said, when they come up to visit...they do bring us coffee
> beans they've grown on their own finca...damn, I really need to get
> down there...
>



El Salvador is even more Americanized than we are in Honduras - the
currency is the US dollar - that's what the ATM's spit out - US
greenbacks. There are more American stores in the malls (Hush Puppy and
Bass Shoes, Samsonite luggage, etc), more American foods available in
the supermarkets, more American restuarants, American and European
style coffee/pastry shops. The roads in San Salvador are wide and in
good shape and the public transit (buses and taxis) are clean and not
spewing pollutants into the air). I sometimes go to San Salvador on one
of my "leave for 72 hours" visa renewals - and then it's sjop til you
drop for DVDs and CDs - the only things that can sometimes, but not all
the time, be har to find here.

On coffee....our friend's grandma's coffee isn't ready to harvest yet.
It's shade grown (under mango, banana, peach, and ornamentals),
organically fertilized (by her pig and chickens), high altitude at 4000
feet. We roast our own here so she only has to have our share that we
have bought and paid for pulped.

SD



  #71 (permalink)   Report Post  
Melba's Jammin'
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article >, Terry Pulliam
Burd > wrote:

> On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 07:18:34 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
> > wrote:

(snip)
> >How is it different? And where'd you get it? I think all I've ever
> >seen is pearl (pearled?) barley.

>
> I had to hunt all over the net to find it and had to buy a huge gob of
> it, so you want some, lemmeno and I'll send you some. For one thing,
> it doesn't get soggy the way pearled barley does and its flavor is
> better.
>
> Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
> AAC(F)BV66.0748.CA


I'll see if any of the food co-ops around here have it. And will look
closer at the supermarket shelves, too. If I strike out, I'll maybe ask
for a couple cups.
--
-Barb, <http://www.jamlady.eboard.com> Several notes since 8/18/05,
including the Blue Ribbon Brownie Recipe and a sad note added
this evening, 8/27/05.
  #72 (permalink)   Report Post  
rosie read n' post
 
Posts: n/a
Default


>
> Depends. I've had some very good ones, but I've also had really
> crappy unspiral sliced hams. Hams are iffy in my opinion.
>



ABSOLUTELY!


  #73 (permalink)   Report Post  
rosie read n' post
 
Posts: n/a
Default

a THICK sliced spiral?

--

"no duh!"
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/10/bus....ap/index.html





"Sheldon" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Nancy Young wrote:
> > "Sheldon" wrote
> >
> > > Well, then those boneheads need to learn how to bone a ham. duh

> >
> > Why would I want to bone a ham? Something weird about a
> > boneless ham, I guess it's canned ham flashbacks.

>
> Nothing weird, and nothing like canned... takes all of five minutes,
> two minutes to remove the aitch bone, another three minutes to cut out
> the shank bone. Then after heating it's a breeze to carve. I really
> don't like spiral cut hams; they're typically a poor grade of ham and

I
> don't like how they're sliced so thick, about twice as thick as I'd
> prefer. I almost always bone fresh ham before cooking too.
>
> Sheldon
>



  #74 (permalink)   Report Post  
Roberta
 
Posts: n/a
Default

enigma wrote:
> "Mike Pearce" > wrote in
> ups.com:
>
>
>>I'd actually like to raise my own chickens for both meat
>>and eggs, but I don't want to make the trade-off to live
>>somewhere else where raising chickens would be practical.

>
>
> you wouldn't want to raise them for meat after you had to
> pluck one. gutting is nothing, but plucking is just a
> *huge* pain in the butt. OTOH, if you aren't planning to roast
> it, you could just skin it & skip the whole boiling water &
> tweezers for the pin feathers mess...
> my chickens are for eggs because i hate plucking.
> lee


My grandmother hated plucking too - because she hated chicken feet. It
had to do with growing up in the depression and something about my great
grandfather eating them. Instead of holding them by the feet - she
would have my aunt hold one wing while she held the other. Apparently,
while plucking the bird it filled with air - on the next pull in let out
a sort of cluck. My aunt and grandmother threw the bird across the yard
and it was the last time my aunt helped pluck a chicken.

Roberta (in VA)
  #75 (permalink)   Report Post  
Alex Rast
 
Posts: n/a
Default

at Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:53:06 GMT in <1126353186.060087.261260
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, wrote :

>I started making cornbread a while ago and found it's very cheap to
>make from scratch. You get a 4 lb bag of cornmeal for $4 and 4 pound
>bag of flour for $2 and some other stuff and you can make many big pans
>of cornbread.
>
>I just bought a can of Hershey cocoa powder for about $4.19, and OMG it
>goes a long way. You can make a cup of hot cocoa with only 2 or 3
>teaspoons of cocoa. That's a helluva lot cheaper than Swiss Miss, isn't
>it? I wish I had found this out a long time ago, cuz I would've had hot
>cocoa more often. I made a couple of batches of chocolate pudding and
>still have most of the cocoa left.
>


Most of the things that are mostly staple grains - wheat, corn, barley,
rice, etc. are dirt cheap and when made from scratch better than commercial
versions. Thus breads and pasta of all types look pretty economical. Same
thing goes with beans. Thus soups and baked beans are also cheap. Another
one you can make with little effort and which is very versatile is polenta.

That being said, the labour involved with those types of preparations
varies from minimal to intensive. So partly it's a decision as to how many
labour hours you want to trade off for ingredient savings. For instance,
I've made pasta regularly enough that it's truly cheap for me to make it,
in the sense that I can whip out a batch in under an hour total time.
However, if it were your first time, it might take you longer. Baked beans,
soups, and stews, OTOH, are always economical because it's basically a case
of dump-it-all-in-a-pot-and-forget-about-it. You come back a few hours
later and you're done. Soups, especially, are economical for the same
reason that they have been since time immemorial - they let you maximise
the use of scraps and other food that might otherwise have gone to waste.
It's cheap, furthermore, to make stock as a soup base and then you can add
whatever you want to it at a later date for a quick, delicious soup.

Very few people in the USA seem to make basic grains and beans as a main
meal component. I like to make barley, wheat, rye, you name it, simply by
simmering in a pot for a while. It's really pretty delicious and dirt
cheap. You can give it more flavour interest by simmering it in a stock.
Barley in mushroom stock, for instance, is really amazing, good for cold
winter nights. Most people take what grains they have in baked-goods form -
e.g. bread, cake, muffins, etc (sadly, a lot of it as the latter, very
sugary, fatty items that can't be considered basic components of a main
meal IMHO)

Breads are very cheap to make, but like pasta practice makes perfect and
initially you might spend considerable time for bread not nearly as good as
you could find in a decent bakery. I make bread pretty regularly but I also
recognise that those who don't aren't being spendthrift. Bakery bread is
comparatively expensive (at least for good stuff), but, somewhat like
espresso, when the need is for something instant-consume with minimal
effort or forethought on your part, you've got to question seriously the
wisdom of going through the work. My actual reason for baking bread has
little to do with cost savings but rather that the "style" of quality bread
in Seattle is, virtually without exception, sourdough, to the point where
it seems in people's minds for a bread even to qualify as quality it *must*
be a sourdough-type bread. That's not a style of bread I like and so baking
it myself is really the only choice.

This is another reason to make things yourself - getting things the way you
like them. Your cocoa example is a case in point. Packaged "cocoa" mixes
are mostly vile, artificial, cloyingly sweet creations, and even elite
cocoa from, say, coffeeshops, to me is unacceptably mild. I personally like
2-3 tbsp of cocoa and perhaps 1 tsp sugar to a cup of milk for a good hot
cocoa (so that it's not, perhaps, economical) and this is way, way more
potent than any commercial operation is likely to supply.

By contrast the quickest way to escalate the price rapidly is to make
things with ingredients that are already expensive in relative terms.
Meats, fats, especially butter, fruits, and nuts are the main culprits.
Spices are expensive but you don't use much at a time so with discretion
they don't break the budget but used universally will quickly push up the
price. Some vegetables are very expensive - mushrooms, tomatoes, green
beans - in fresh form, while others - carrots, celery, cabbage - are cheap.
But in general using fresh vegetables is another way it's easy to get
expensive. Cheap is more or less the diet of our lower-class ancestors,
mostly beans and grains, with other stuff used only as garnish. Expensive
is the diet of luxury which has become much more widespread than it was
historically, meat-and-vegetable based.


--
Alex Rast

(remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)


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