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General Cooking (rec.food.cooking) For general food and cooking discussion. Foods of all kinds, food procurement, cooking methods and techniques, eating, etc.

Barley Substitutes and How to Use Them?



 
 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 04-04-2005, 02:50 AM
Emma Thackery
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Barley Substitutes and How to Use Them?


Unfortunately, I can no longer eat barley. But I have a fair number of
recipes that call for it. I've heard that millet, kasha and amaranth
might make decent substitutes for barley. But my problem is, having
used little or none of these grains before, I have no idea how to
substitute them in comparison to barley--- how to adapt the cooking time
or other ingredients (especially liquids). Neither am I certain if they
are really good substitutes. Can anyone shed some light on this for me?

Emma
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 04-04-2005, 03:07 AM
Sheldon
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Emma Thackery wrote:
Unfortunately, I can no longer eat barley.


Why the hell not?

But I have a fair number of
recipes that call for it. I've heard that millet, kasha and amaranth


might make decent substitutes for barley.


Depends on the recipes... since you clam to have a fair number then
perhaps for starters your divluging just two is a fair request...
unless of course they are copyrighted and you're ascared to share with
a bunch of hijackers.

But my problem is, having
used little or none of these grains before, I have no idea how to
substitute them in comparison to barley--- how to adapt the cooking

time
or other ingredients (especially liquids).


Again, what recipe(s)?

Neither am I certain if they are really good substitutes.


That would depend on what YOU want to accomplish.

Can anyone shed some light on this for me?


First YOU need to put some new D cells in your flashlight, and then
maybe you will be capable of illuminating the *specifics* regarding WHY
you can no longer eat barley (for all we know someone knocked out all
your teeth and your jaw is wired), and what in particular you hope to
accomplish.

Sheldon

  #3 (permalink)  
Old 04-04-2005, 09:24 AM
Alex Rast
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

at Mon, 04 Apr 2005 01:50:16 GMT in emma-8F2DC4.20501603042005@news-
50.dca.giganews.com, (Emma Thackery) wrote :


Unfortunately, I can no longer eat barley. But I have a fair number of
recipes that call for it. I've heard that millet, kasha and amaranth
might make decent substitutes for barley. But my problem is, having
used little or none of these grains before, I have no idea how to
substitute them in comparison to barley--- how to adapt the cooking time
or other ingredients (especially liquids). Neither am I certain if they
are really good substitutes. Can anyone shed some light on this for me?


None are even remotely close, neither in terms of texture nor taste. Millet
has a much milder, milky flavour. It is a small, spherical grain, about
half the size of a rice grain. When cooked, if you use 2 cups water/cup
millet, it is fluffy. At 4 cups water/cup, it becomes mushy, a kind of
porridge.

Kasha (buckwheat) has a strong, earthy flavour. It is very fluffy indeed
and cooks very quickly. Its shape is unique, sort of a wedge/triangle about
the size of a wheat berry. Kasha is very popular in Russian cuisine. Use 2
cups water/cup. Any more and it just dissolves into a paste. Excellent with
mushrooms.

Amaranth is the most dissimilar. It's a tiny grain, about the size of a
mustard seed. Cooked, it has a gelatinous, almost slimy texture and a taste
very strongly reminiscent of grass. It's much more porridgelike and you
need 3 cups water per cup.

Is the problem that you're gluten intolerant? If so you're in for a rough
time because the most similar substitutes for barley are all true grains,
and AFAIK all contain constituent proteins that at least to some extent can
form gluten (correct me anyone if I'm wrong) Now, probably the most similar
is farro, a form of wheat with a softer texture popular in Italy. After
that, I'd have to say rye were next, although it has a considerably
stronger flavour. Lighter in flavour are short-grain rices. Wild rice isn't
very similar to barley but seems to work in the same dishes that barley
works in so it might be acceptable.


--
Alex Rast

(remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 04-04-2005, 02:10 PM
Sheldon
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Alex Rast wrote:

Is the problem that you're gluten intolerant? If so you're in for a

rough
time because the most similar substitutes for barley are all true

grains,
and AFAIK all contain constituent proteins that at least to some

extent can
form gluten (correct me anyone if I'm wrong)


Nope, buckwheat is a fruit, actually a berry (not a ceral grain) and is
gluten free.

Pure buckwheat flours are readily available.

http://www.thebirkettmills.com/glute...nfree_2003.htm

Sheldon

  #5 (permalink)  
Old 04-04-2005, 02:49 PM
Melba's Jammin'
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article .com,
"Sheldon" wrote:

Emma Thackery wrote:
Unfortunately, I can no longer eat barley.

(snip)
First YOU need to put some new D cells in your flashlight, and then
maybe you will be capable of illuminating the *specifics* regarding WHY
you can no longer eat barley (for all we know someone knocked out all
your teeth and your jaw is wired), and what in particular you hope to
accomplish.

Sheldon


What difference does it make? She says she can't eat it.
--
-Barb, http://www.jamlady.eboard.com The Nylons added 4-3-05.

"I read recipes the way I read science fiction: I get to the end and
say,'Well, that's not going to happen.'" - Comedian Rita Rudner,
performance at New York, New York, January 10, 2005.
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 04-04-2005, 03:16 PM
Sheldon
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Melba's Jammin' wrote:
In article .com,
"Sheldon" wrote:

Emma Thackery wrote:
Unfortunately, I can no longer eat barley.

(snip)
First YOU need to put some new D cells in your flashlight, and then
maybe you will be capable of illuminating the *specifics* regarding

WHY
you can no longer eat barley (for all we know someone knocked out

all
your teeth and your jaw is wired), and what in particular you hope

to
accomplish.

Sheldon


What difference does it make? She says she can't eat it.


"it"... that's the point... gotta know what "it" is, Bubba Barb... what
component of barley.

Because she asked to suggest something else similar... not possible to
do so in any intelligent way without knowing the specific parameters of
why not barley. What difference does it make you say, so what
alternative would you suggest, "Hey, eat shit."

Now stop being smarmy, Barb... doesn't suit you.

  #7 (permalink)  
Old 04-04-2005, 06:01 PM
Emma Thackery
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,
(Alex Rast) wrote:

at Mon, 04 Apr 2005 01:50:16 GMT in emma-8F2DC4.20501603042005@news-
50.dca.giganews.com,
(Emma Thackery) wrote :


Unfortunately, I can no longer eat barley....


None are even remotely close, neither in terms of texture nor taste. Millet
has a much milder, milky flavour. It is a small, spherical grain, about
half the size of a rice grain. When cooked, if you use 2 cups water/cup
millet, it is fluffy. At 4 cups water/cup, it becomes mushy, a kind of
porridge.

Kasha (buckwheat) has a strong, earthy flavour. It is very fluffy indeed
and cooks very quickly. Its shape is unique, sort of a wedge/triangle about
the size of a wheat berry. Kasha is very popular in Russian cuisine. Use 2
cups water/cup. Any more and it just dissolves into a paste. Excellent with
mushrooms.

Amaranth is the most dissimilar. It's a tiny grain, about the size of a
mustard seed. Cooked, it has a gelatinous, almost slimy texture and a taste
very strongly reminiscent of grass. It's much more porridgelike and you
need 3 cups water per cup.


Thanks so much! That is very helpful. At least that gives me some idea
how to work with these grains and what they're like, though I have to
say that Amaranth doesn't sound the least bit appetizing.. lol. I've
been scouring the web looking for recipes that include kasha and millet.
But so often, what you find on the web is/sounds either tasteless
(poorly seasoned) or includes processed ingredients that contain gluten.
But I have found a few to try and surely once I have the taste and
texture set in mind, it will be easier to start substituting.

For soups with barley, I've already tried wild and brown rice which
works fairly well. I use a great deal of brown rice now (25# each month
or so) but, despite how great it is, the family does tire of it after
awhile. I'm also thinking of experimenting with oat groats (McCanns
which are generally uncontaminated by wheat). They take awile to cook
and might also be a sub in some instances.

But I realize that sometimes, depending on one's tastes, there are just
no acceptable substitutes. For instance, while rice pasta does not
stand up well against tomato sauce, it's just fine for most Asian and
other dishes. So sometimes, those of us with these food problems just
have to learn to eat differently.

Is the problem that you're gluten intolerant?


Yes, I was diagnosed this winter with celiac disease. Going to a
gluten-free diet was like a miracle. For those who are unfamiliar,
Celiac is an inherited auto-immune disorder that causes quite an array
of symptoms including extreme digestive problems, malabsorption
syndrome, arthritic symptoms, osteoporosis, and a host of other
frequently misdiagnosed maladies. Only a small percentage of those who
carry the gene actually acquire the condition, however, and it affects
mostly people of northern European and Irish heritage. Incidence in the
US is now 1:130. In Ireland it is 1:80. On average in the US, it takes
11 years for people with Celiac to get diagnosed. The term "gluten" is
kind of a misnomer, even though it is the accepted terminology, since
even rice has gluten though it is a different type than is in wheat.
The offending protein is actually GLIADIN which is found in rye, barley
and all wheat relatives including tritcale, spelt and kamut. It is also
found in oats contaminated by wheat which is frequently the case.

...If so you're in for a rough
time because the most similar substitutes for barley are all true grains,
and AFAIK all contain constituent proteins that at least to some extent can
form gluten (correct me anyone if I'm wrong) Now, probably the most similar
is farro, a form of wheat with a softer texture popular in Italy. After
that, I'd have to say rye were next, although it has a considerably
stronger flavour. Lighter in flavour are short-grain rices. Wild rice isn't
very similar to barley but seems to work in the same dishes that barley
works in so it might be acceptable.


Thanks again, your insights are very helpful

Emma
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 04-04-2005, 07:57 PM
Melba's Jammin'
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article .com,
"Sheldon" wrote:

Melba's Jammin' wrote:
In article .com,
"Sheldon" wrote:

Emma Thackery wrote:
Unfortunately, I can no longer eat barley.

(snip)
First YOU need to put some new D cells in your flashlight, and
then maybe you will be capable of illuminating the *specifics*
regarding WHY you can no longer eat barley (for all we know
someone knocked out all your teeth and your jaw is wired), and
what in particular you hope to accomplish.


Sheldon


What difference does it make? She says she can't eat it.


"it"... that's the point... gotta know what "it" is, Bubba Barb... what
component of barley.

Because she asked to suggest something else similar... not possible to
do so in any intelligent way without knowing the specific parameters of
why not barley. What difference does it make you say, so what
alternative would you suggest, "Hey, eat shit."

Now stop being smarmy, Barb... doesn't suit you.


Heh! No, I wouldn't tell her to eat shit -- I'd never consider it as a
subsitute for barley (in cooking or in anything else, for that matter).
Smarmy, huh? I don't think so. Something about your response struck me
as combative and since it was her first post, I was trying to counter
your (perceived, but not without some justification, since you're often
rough on newcomers) snotty remark about her capabilities. :-P So,
there.
Why not just answer her question (or don't) and let the conversation
develop naturally. Like Alex Rast's reply and her response to it.
--
-Barb, http://www.jamlady.eboard.com The Nylons added 4-3-05.

"I read recipes the way I read science fiction: I get to the end and
say,'Well, that's not going to happen.'" - Comedian Rita Rudner,
performance at New York, New York, January 10, 2005.
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 04-04-2005, 09:22 PM
Sheldon
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Melba's Jammin' wrote:
In article .com,
"Sheldon" wrote:

Melba's Jammin' wrote:
In article

.com,
"Sheldon" wrote:

Emma Thackery wrote:
Unfortunately, I can no longer eat barley.
(snip)
First YOU need to put some new D cells in your flashlight, and
then maybe you will be capable of illuminating the *specifics*
regarding WHY you can no longer eat barley (for all we know
someone knocked out all your teeth and your jaw is wired), and
what in particular you hope to accomplish.


Sheldon

What difference does it make? She says she can't eat it.


"it"... that's the point... gotta know what "it" is, Bubba Barb...

what
component of barley.

Because she asked to suggest something else similar... not possible

to
do so in any intelligent way without knowing the specific

parameters of
why not barley. What difference does it make you say, so what
alternative would you suggest, "Hey, eat shit."

Now stop being smarmy, Barb... doesn't suit you.


Heh! No, I wouldn't tell her to eat shit -- I'd never consider it as

a
subsitute for barley (in cooking or in anything else, for that

matter).
Smarmy, huh? I don't think so. Something about your response struck

me
as combative and since it was her first post, I was trying to counter


your (perceived, but not without some justification, since you're

often
rough on newcomers) snotty remark about her capabilities. :-P So,


there.
Why not just answer her question (or don't) and let the conversation
develop naturally. Like Alex Rast's reply and her response to it.
--
-Barb


My response was correct and informative (Alex Rast's was not, just
self-aggrandizing verbiage which he himeslf slantingly indicated by
disclaimer) you just didn't like how I said it but you yourself
contributed nothing/zero. I guess your telling me how to be ain't
judgmental and adding nothing but insult ain't an opportunistically
smarmy personal attack and only your net cop position is the
correct/default personna, Mommy.

Sheldon (with naked butt pointing unto the lord awaiting Sister Barb's
ministrations -- into her valley... his big beets shall defend him)

  #12 (permalink)  
Old 05-04-2005, 12:35 AM
zxcvbob
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Emma Thackery wrote:
In article ,
(Alex Rast) wrote:


at Mon, 04 Apr 2005 01:50:16 GMT in emma-8F2DC4.20501603042005@news-
50.dca.giganews.com,
(Emma Thackery) wrote :


Unfortunately, I can no longer eat barley....



None are even remotely close, neither in terms of texture nor taste. Millet
has a much milder, milky flavour. It is a small, spherical grain, about
half the size of a rice grain. When cooked, if you use 2 cups water/cup
millet, it is fluffy. At 4 cups water/cup, it becomes mushy, a kind of
porridge.

Kasha (buckwheat) has a strong, earthy flavour. It is very fluffy indeed
and cooks very quickly. Its shape is unique, sort of a wedge/triangle about
the size of a wheat berry. Kasha is very popular in Russian cuisine. Use 2
cups water/cup. Any more and it just dissolves into a paste. Excellent with
mushrooms.

Amaranth is the most dissimilar. It's a tiny grain, about the size of a
mustard seed. Cooked, it has a gelatinous, almost slimy texture and a taste
very strongly reminiscent of grass. It's much more porridgelike and you
need 3 cups water per cup.



Thanks so much! That is very helpful. At least that gives me some idea
how to work with these grains and what they're like, though I have to
say that Amaranth doesn't sound the least bit appetizing.. lol. I've
been scouring the web looking for recipes that include kasha and millet.
But so often, what you find on the web is/sounds either tasteless
(poorly seasoned) or includes processed ingredients that contain gluten.
But I have found a few to try and surely once I have the taste and
texture set in mind, it will be easier to start substituting.

For soups with barley, I've already tried wild and brown rice which
works fairly well. I use a great deal of brown rice now (25# each month
or so) but, despite how great it is, the family does tire of it after
awhile. I'm also thinking of experimenting with oat groats (McCanns
which are generally uncontaminated by wheat). They take awile to cook
and might also be a sub in some instances.

But I realize that sometimes, depending on one's tastes, there are just
no acceptable substitutes. For instance, while rice pasta does not
stand up well against tomato sauce, it's just fine for most Asian and
other dishes. So sometimes, those of us with these food problems just
have to learn to eat differently.


Is the problem that you're gluten intolerant?



Yes, I was diagnosed this winter with celiac disease. Going to a
gluten-free diet was like a miracle. For those who are unfamiliar,
Celiac is an inherited auto-immune disorder that causes quite an array
of symptoms including extreme digestive problems, malabsorption
syndrome, arthritic symptoms, osteoporosis, and a host of other
frequently misdiagnosed maladies. Only a small percentage of those who
carry the gene actually acquire the condition, however, and it affects
mostly people of northern European and Irish heritage. Incidence in the
US is now 1:130. In Ireland it is 1:80. On average in the US, it takes
11 years for people with Celiac to get diagnosed. The term "gluten" is
kind of a misnomer, even though it is the accepted terminology, since
even rice has gluten though it is a different type than is in wheat.
The offending protein is actually GLIADIN which is found in rye, barley
and all wheat relatives including tritcale, spelt and kamut. It is also
found in oats contaminated by wheat which is frequently the case.


Thanks again, your insights are very helpful

Emma



I was about to ask about oats (I don't think oats contain gluten) but
you mentioned it in this follow-up message. Have you tried whole
groats? You could rinse off any wheat dust.

What about brown rice?

I've thought about adding a bunch of large-pearl tapioca to chicken
broth and calling it "Chicken Eye Soup" ;-) It would probably be more
convincing in a "Fish Eye Soup".

Best regards,
Bob
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 05-04-2005, 03:48 AM
Emma Thackery
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,
zxcvbob wrote:

I was about to ask about oats (I don't think oats contain gluten) but
you mentioned it in this follow-up message. Have you tried whole
groats? You could rinse off any wheat dust.


The cross-contamination occurs in the fields as well.... apparently.
This is a frequent source of discussion among those with CD. They say
that in the US, wheat can be found growing in most oat fields and it
gets mixed in with the harvested oats. That's why I've been using the
McCanns from Ireland which is never grown around wheat. However, even
McCanns won't guarantee their oats. But the majority of people with
Celiac don't have problems with it.

As far as rinsing goes, I've actually done that with some chocolate bars
(under cold water) because they often use wheat flour to keep them from
sticking to their "assembly" lines. That's what you call desperation.

What about brown rice?


Yep, I use brown rice all the time but I'd love to find a few more
options. I buy the LG organic Lundberg in 25# sacks. Great stuff.

I've thought about adding a bunch of large-pearl tapioca to chicken
broth and calling it "Chicken Eye Soup" ;-) It would probably be more
convincing in a "Fish Eye Soup".


LOL!
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2005, 01:58 AM
Alex Rast
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

at Mon, 04 Apr 2005 23:14:20 GMT in 1112656460.213513.324600
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, (Sheldon) wrote :


Alex Rast wrote:
at Mon, 04 Apr 2005 13:10:42 GMT in 1112620242.258434.124980
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com,
(Sheldon) wrote :


Alex Rast wrote:

Is the problem that you're gluten intolerant? ...

Nope, buckwheat is a fruit, actually a berry (not a ceral grain) and

is
gluten free.


What I meant was that such grains as are close substitutes for barley

-
i.e. "true" grains - contain gluten. Buckwheat was one not in this

category
inasmuch as it's not very similar to barley.


That's not what you said, boy... try to act like a man, and stop your
oozing.


Well, it is *exactly* what I said, but I apologise if you got confused
anyway. Here is the phrase:

because the most similar substitutes for barley are all true
grains,
and AFAIK all contain constituent proteins that at least to some
extent can
form gluten (correct me anyone if I'm wrong)


Note that the "all" after "AFAIK" refers to "the most similar substitutes
for barley" just above, which I further qualify using the description "are
all true grains". Thus it refers only to the most similar substitutes and
not to any arbitrary substitute. If it were to have included buckwheat, I
would have had to make the stripping of the qualifiers explicit by saying
"AFAIK all substitutes contain constituent proteins..."

However, since what I said was confusing (and I'll agree that it's a maze
of qualifiers), how might you have worded it so that it wasn't so
confusing?

--
Alex Rast

(remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)
 




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