I'm giving it a try. Mainly cuz I GOTTA lose some weight. Anyway, is
it a viable eating approach or jes another scam? It appeals to me cuz
it allows a lotta veggies and some fruits. Not ultra restrictive like
Atkins. Basically, I jes plan to cut out all refined carbs, like cake,
cookies, crackers, cereals, bread, beer, etc. Like Dave said, jes eat
more veggies and fruits.

My problem is, I'm put off by the overwhelming commercialism of the
whole thing. It's almost impossible to find any info without being
bombarded with a barrage of books, ebooks, plans, lists, etc, that ALL
want $$$$!!! Even the originating doctor --from the UofCO, no less--
looks more like a snake oil salesman than someone who cares about my
health. Not at all reasuring.

nb

On 5 Jan 2014 20:17:22 GMT, notbob > wrote:

> I'm giving it a try. Mainly cuz I GOTTA lose some weight. Anyway, is
> it a viable eating approach or jes another scam? It appeals to me cuz
> it allows a lotta veggies and some fruits. Not ultra restrictive like
> Atkins. Basically, I jes plan to cut out all refined carbs, like cake,
> cookies, crackers, cereals, bread, beer, etc. Like Dave said, jes eat
> more veggies and fruits.
>
> My problem is, I'm put off by the overwhelming commercialism of the
> whole thing. It's almost impossible to find any info without being
> bombarded with a barrage of books, ebooks, plans, lists, etc, that ALL
> want $$$$!!! Even the originating doctor --from the UofCO, no less--
> looks more like a snake oil salesman than someone who cares about my
> health. Not at all reasuring.
>
There are plenty of Paleo bloggers who put out good recipes and once
you get used to that style of cooking, you'll be able to look at other
recipes and decide what fits or how to make them fit. Here's
something to get you started.
http://www.rubiesandradishes.com/201...redient-paleo/
http://paleopolly.com/2013/12/13/a-w...-cooker-ideas/
http://www.fitsugar.com/Healthy-Pale...photo-33132337
http://nomnompaleo.com/ for mayonnaise and pot de crème recipes

Kaylin's kitchen is a great one for tasty recipes. She tailors them
to South Beach, but I don't do formal diets - I just make what appeals
to me. I also find that I like "clean eating" type recipes...
whether they are by the magazine or just called "clean eating" in
general. Simple is best.

I will caution you about hunger management if you go strict Paleo.
You need some carbs to keep the cravings away. My advice is to learn
how to manage your meal planning through the American Diabetes
Association. My husband is doing very well - not constantly hungry
and keeps his blood sugar in check (normal, in fact) without
medication after we took the class (thank you, Kaiser) and he learned
how to make healthy choices.
http://www.diabetes.org/food-and-fit...hat-can-i-eat/
I encourage you to choose low-carb, not no-carb.
--

"Corporations aren't people, they're Republicans"
(Rev Al Sharpton 10/7/2011)

On 1/5/2014 3:17 PM, notbob wrote:
> I'm giving it a try. Mainly cuz I GOTTA lose some weight. Anyway, is
> it a viable eating approach or jes another scam? It appeals to me cuz
> it allows a lotta veggies and some fruits. Not ultra restrictive like
> Atkins. Basically, I jes plan to cut out all refined carbs, like cake,
> cookies, crackers, cereals, bread, beer, etc. Like Dave said, jes eat
> more veggies and fruits.
>
> nb
>
Maybe you should move to Frontier Valley and build a cabin from the
ground up...

Jill

On 2014-01-05, jmcquown > wrote:

> Maybe you should move to Frontier Valley and build a cabin from the
> ground up...

Hey, I may hafta iffin I can't snag Mom's property or buy some other
lot. Gotta get the IRS off my back, first.

nb

On Sunday, January 5, 2014 3:05:50 PM UTC-7, notbob wrote:
> On 2014-01-05, jmcquown > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Maybe you should move to Frontier Valley and build a cabin from the
>
> > ground up...
>
>
>
> Hey, I may hafta iffin I can't snag Mom's property or buy some other
>
> lot. Gotta get the IRS off my back, first.
>
>
>
> nb

Too much creative bookkeeping on your part perhaps?
===

On 1/5/2014 2:17 PM, notbob wrote:
> I'm giving it a try. Mainly cuz I GOTTA lose some weight. Anyway, is
> it a viable eating approach or jes another scam? It appeals to me cuz
> it allows a lotta veggies and some fruits. Not ultra restrictive like
> Atkins. Basically, I jes plan to cut out all refined carbs, like cake,
> cookies, crackers, cereals, bread, beer, etc. Like Dave said, jes eat
> more veggies and fruits.
>

In October, I spent a week in Colorado helping with the flood cleanup.
They fed us like lumberjacks, 3 meals a day plus lots of snacks. We
were doing physical work, but not really /that hard/. I was afraid I
had gained 5 or more pounds, but actually I lost 2 that week. I started
gaining when got into my usual desk-bound routine again, even tho' I was
eating less and eating healthier. (We won't talk about the weight I
gained over the holidays)

The key to weight loss seems to be physical activity. And it doesn't
have to be strenuous, or even burn that many calories. It just needs to
be enough to raise your metabolism and keep it up. Reduce the calories
on top of that and you'll lose weight.

I've decided that if losing weight is my goal, I'm going to fail.
(Maybe you have more willpower about your diet.) But if getting healthy
and more active is my goal, I have a pretty good chance of doing that,
and the weight loss will just happen.

The most weight I ever lost in my life was 50 lbs in 3 or 4 months.
That was when I tore-off and reroofed a ranch-style house in the summer
in Texas. By myself, without a helper. I didn't even rent a dumpster
for the tearoff. The shingles were not delivered to my rooftop, I
hauled them myself. It was about 20 years ago, and I'm never going to
do that again.

Bob

On 2014-01-05, Susan > wrote:
>
> I'm not saying there's no metabolic benefit to physical exercise, but
> that it's not essential for weight loss, either. In fact, there's a
> reason for the expression "working up an appetite."

Regardless, I'm out walking, and in the freezing windy cold. I walked
yesterday for about 20 mins. Jes long enough to realize my gloves
suck, so I went out and bought some mittens, today, and some ice spikes
a couple days ago. I don't mind a cold face, but I gotta have warm
hands. (although I will be looking at face masks)

nb

On Sunday, January 5, 2014 3:06:17 PM UTC-6, sf wrote:
>
> I will caution you about hunger management if you go strict Paleo.
>
> You need some carbs to keep the cravings away.

NO! YOU DON'T!!!!

> My advice is to learn
>
> how to manage your meal planning through the American Diabetes
>
> Association. My husband is doing very well - not constantly hungry
>
> and keeps his blood sugar in check (normal, in fact) without
>
> medication after we took the class (thank you, Kaiser) and he learned
>
> how to make healthy choices.
>
> http://www.diabetes.org/food-and-fit...hat-can-i-eat/
>
> I encourage you to choose low-carb, not no-carb.
>
Seriously restrict carbs until you get past the freak-out withdrawal stage.

Do not fear fats. Eat avocados. Eat nuts like cashews, pecans, almonds.
Eat lots of green leafy veggies. Eat carbs ONLY as a treat. Don't believe
the crap that idiots will tell you about "complex" carbs. Download several
versions of the glycemic index.

--B

On 2014-01-05, Sqwertz > wrote:

> (as well as some cheap ebook fluff).

From what I've seen, "cheap" and "ebook" seems to be mutually
exclusive.

I finally broke down and bought a Nook that was on sale, which I now
regret. Can't resell 'em, can't trade 'em, can't even give 'em away!
This and the Terms of Use (TOU) agreement is 180 pages long!! I can't
believe a TOU that detailed is not highly sinister. I look on the web
and the prices fer an ebook is only about 20% cheaper than the
paperback. I can get used paperback fer $2, or even free.

When linux finally comes out with a non ad-roid tablet OS, I'll prolly
hack the nook and forget ebooks, altogether. Whatta rip-off.

nb

On 5 Jan 2014 20:17:22 GMT, notbob > wrote:

>I'm giving it a try. Mainly cuz I GOTTA lose some weight. Anyway, is
>it a viable eating approach or jes another scam? It appeals to me cuz
>it allows a lotta veggies and some fruits. Not ultra restrictive like
>Atkins. Basically, I jes plan to cut out all refined carbs, like cake,
>cookies, crackers, cereals, bread, beer, etc. Like Dave said, jes eat
>more veggies and fruits.
>
>My problem is, I'm put off by the overwhelming commercialism of the
>whole thing.

It wasn't always so commercialised... that came later.

>It's almost impossible to find any info without being
>bombarded with a barrage of books, ebooks, plans, lists, etc, that ALL
>want $$$$!!! Even the originating doctor --from the UofCO, no less--
>looks more like a snake oil salesman than someone who cares about my
>health. Not at all reasuring.

People will always try to exploit anything like this, especially
trendy diets. But IMO the paleo diet is basically a good one and makes
a lot more sense to me than most any other diet out there.

Just don't forget the one major factor... exercise.

On Sun, 5 Jan 2014 14:28:59 -0800 (PST), Bryan-TGWWW
> wrote:

>On Sunday, January 5, 2014 3:06:17 PM UTC-6, sf wrote:
>>
>> I will caution you about hunger management if you go strict Paleo.
>>
>> You need some carbs to keep the cravings away.
>
>NO! YOU DON'T!!!!

Agree absolutely. That was a bloody stupid statement from SF.
Please ignore it. If somebody struggles to maintain a paleo diet due
to lack of carbs, then they may as well give up. There is no easier
diet out there.

On Mon, 06 Jan 2014 09:48:52 +1100, John J > wrote:

>This fear of carbs is for people with no self control who will
>otherwise stuff themselves into obesity and diabetes.

That is most people.

notbob wrote:
>
> I'm giving it a try. Mainly cuz I GOTTA lose some weight. Anyway, is
> it a viable eating approach or jes another scam? It appeals to me cuz
> it allows a lotta veggies and some fruits. Not ultra restrictive like
> Atkins. Basically, I jes plan to cut out all refined carbs, like cake,
> cookies, crackers, cereals, bread, beer, etc. Like Dave said, jes eat
> more veggies and fruits.

You could lose as much weight by eliminating
all foods with the letters E, A, or T in their
names and it would be about as scientific.

The world is full of silly diets like eating
nothing but fruit, macrobiotics, "mucus-free"
diet, "alkalizing" diet, etc. I think they
work for lots of people because they make you
break your old food habits, which is often
the problem.

Hey, maybe that would make a good fad diet!
The rule is you can't eat any food you've
eaten in the last 10 years. Eat all the
quinoa and goat you like, but no beef, corn,
potatoes, etc.

On Sunday, January 5, 2014 3:27:53 PM UTC-6, The Other Guy wrote:
> On Sun, 05 Jan 2014 16:21:46 -0500, Susan > wrote:
>
>
>
> >It's not a scam, it's a lot healthier than the way most folks eat, but
>
> >it's also not at all necessary for your goals.
>
>
>
> It IS a scam, if your lifestyle doesn't match the paleolithic
>
> lifestyle.
>
"The Other Guy" is an idiot. No one is asking you to buy any books or
give anyone any money.

We're eating right this evening. Meat sauce over spaghetti for my son, but
no pasta for the grownups. We're just having ours over sauteed mushrooms.

--B

On Mon, 06 Jan 2014 09:58:17 +1100, John J > wrote:

>On Mon, 06 Jan 2014 09:54:54 +1100, Jeßus > wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 06 Jan 2014 09:48:52 +1100, John J > wrote:
>>
>>>This fear of carbs is for people with no self control who will
>>>otherwise stuff themselves into obesity and diabetes.
>>
>>That is most people.
>
>Well, an increasing number, also depending on the country.

These stats were lower than I expected, but still not great:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/he...health-obesity

notbob wrote:
> I'm giving it a try. Mainly cuz I GOTTA lose some weight. Anyway, is
> it a viable eating approach or jes another scam? It appeals to me cuz
> it allows a lotta veggies and some fruits. Not ultra restrictive like
> Atkins. Basically, I jes plan to cut out all refined carbs, like
> cake, cookies, crackers, cereals, bread, beer, etc. Like Dave said,
> jes eat more veggies and fruits.
>
> My problem is, I'm put off by the overwhelming commercialism of the
> whole thing. It's almost impossible to find any info without being
> bombarded with a barrage of books, ebooks, plans, lists, etc, that ALL
> want $$$$!!! Even the originating doctor --from the UofCO, no less--
> looks more like a snake oil salesman than someone who cares about my
> health. Not at all reasuring.
>
> nb

I've chimed in twice already on this thread but I'll make one reply
directly to you.

You don't need to "go Paleo" as an all-or-nothing proposition. Read
about it, understand the principles, and start - gradually - changing
your diet. Any time you move in the direction of a less processed,
closer to the source kind of food, you'll be doing something positive
for yourself and your diet. Diets get to be like religious wars -
there's no need for that.

-S-

Ever tried Weight Watchers? I have seen amazing and LASTING results on ppl who thought they could never lose. It's not a fad diet - just sensible eating in the right portions. Coupled with a religious exercise program, I don't think you can go wrong.

Mark Thorson wrote:
>
> notbob wrote:
> >
> > I'm giving it a try. Mainly cuz I GOTTA lose some weight. Anyway, is
> > it a viable eating approach or jes another scam? It appeals to me cuz
> > it allows a lotta veggies and some fruits. Not ultra restrictive like
> > Atkins. Basically, I jes plan to cut out all refined carbs, like cake,
> > cookies, crackers, cereals, bread, beer, etc. Like Dave said, jes eat
> > more veggies and fruits.
>
> You could lose as much weight by eliminating
> all foods with the letters E, A, or T in their
> names and it would be about as scientific.
>
> The world is full of silly diets like eating
> nothing but fruit, macrobiotics, "mucus-free"
> diet, "alkalizing" diet, etc. I think they
> work for lots of people because they make you
> break your old food habits, which is often
> the problem.
>
> Hey, maybe that would make a good fad diet!
> The rule is you can't eat any food you've
> eaten in the last 10 years. Eat all the
> quinoa and goat you like, but no beef, corn,
> potatoes, etc.

And the trendy new "Decade Diet" is born...

x-no-archive: eys

On 1/5/2014 5:58 PM, tert in seattle wrote:
> Okay, sorry, I just have to ask -- what does this exercise/appetite/
> weight-gain curve look like? You can just sketch it out and scan it
> and post a link if you like, or do it ascii-art style.


One serious variable is the amount of the steroid, cortisol, elevation;
exercise causes it in everyone but the amount of cortisol and efficiency
of its clearance is wildly variable.

Cortisol causes a glucose rise leading to higher fat storage hormone,
and also muscle catabolism and hunger. The higher glucose is also
burned instead of fat stores for fuel when it's present.
Different for everyone. Some folks just utilize the glucose and others,
if they measure with a glucose meter, see a significant spike from exercise.

Susan

"notbob" > wrote in message
...
> I'm giving it a try. Mainly cuz I GOTTA lose some weight. Anyway, is
> it a viable eating approach or jes another scam? It appeals to me cuz
> it allows a lotta veggies and some fruits. Not ultra restrictive like
> Atkins. Basically, I jes plan to cut out all refined carbs, like cake,
> cookies, crackers, cereals, bread, beer, etc. Like Dave said, jes eat
> more veggies and fruits.


I've yet to find mastadon meat anywhere.


> My problem is, I'm put off by the overwhelming commercialism of the
> whole thing. It's almost impossible to find any info without being
> bombarded with a barrage of books, ebooks, plans, lists, etc, that ALL
> want $$$$!!! Even the originating doctor --from the UofCO, no less--
> looks more like a snake oil salesman than someone who cares about my
> health. Not at all reasuring.

Just eat. Nothing to it.



---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

"John J" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 06 Jan 2014 10:33:26 +1100, Jeßus > wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 06 Jan 2014 09:58:17 +1100, John J > wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 06 Jan 2014 09:54:54 +1100, Jeßus > wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Mon, 06 Jan 2014 09:48:52 +1100, John J > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>This fear of carbs is for people with no self control who will
>>>>>otherwise stuff themselves into obesity and diabetes.
>>>>
>>>>That is most people.
>>>
>>>Well, an increasing number, also depending on the country.
>>
>>These stats were lower than I expected, but still not great:
>>http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/he...health-obesity
>
> I wish they would just promote their diet to people with diabetes and
> to obese people who can't reduce their intake for psychological
> reasons, rather than pretend it's the gospel.
>
> Just like you don't sell artificial legs to people with two legs.
>
> --
> John

No, but it would be best to prevent losing a leg in the first place.

Cheri

"notbob" > wrote in message
...
> I'm giving it a try. Mainly cuz I GOTTA lose some weight. Anyway, is
> it a viable eating approach or jes another scam? It appeals to me cuz
> it allows a lotta veggies and some fruits. Not ultra restrictive like
> Atkins. Basically, I jes plan to cut out all refined carbs, like cake,
> cookies, crackers, cereals, bread, beer, etc. Like Dave said, jes eat
> more veggies and fruits.
>
> My problem is, I'm put off by the overwhelming commercialism of the
> whole thing. It's almost impossible to find any info without being
> bombarded with a barrage of books, ebooks, plans, lists, etc, that ALL
> want $$$$!!! Even the originating doctor --from the UofCO, no less--
> looks more like a snake oil salesman than someone who cares about my
> health. Not at all reasuring.

Not doable in the long run for most people I should think and from what I
have read it is not really what the Cavemen ate. And I don't think fruit is
allowed on paleo plus a whole slew of vegetables are not allowed either. At
least that is what I have read.

You have to find a diet that will work for you. South Beach is restrictive
for the first two weeks in that you must cut all the high carb foods except
for beans. You then slowly add things back in. You can have most fruits
but a few are not allowed such as bananas and watermelon. There might be
others but they are not things that we eat so I paid it no mind. You can
have whole grains such as cereals with no added sugar or very low sugar,
brown rice, whole wheat pasta and whole grain breads. Sweet potatoes are
allowed. Corn and potatoes are not but... We did go corn in limited
amounts. It is a whole grain. We also included peas on occasion, even
though they are not allowed. These things are limited. But beans are
unlimited.

I would not personally do well on that diet. Not for long anyway because I
can't eat dairy and eggs and I don't do well with most meats. I can do the
beans but would have trouble eating as many of the non-starchy vegetables as
you need to.

But... You will have to buy at least one book. We got the paperbacks,
volume 1 and 2. You need both of them because they made changes to 2. You
can probably get these used somewhere.

Funny thing is, you can buy South Beach bars and shakes but they don't
comply to this diet as they have too much sugar in them. Heh!

On Sun, 05 Jan 2014 13:06:17 -0800, sf > wrote:

>On 5 Jan 2014 20:17:22 GMT, notbob > wrote:
>
>> I'm giving it a try. Mainly cuz I GOTTA lose some weight. Anyway, is
>> it a viable eating approach or jes another scam? It appeals to me cuz
>> it allows a lotta veggies and some fruits. Not ultra restrictive like
>> Atkins. Basically, I jes plan to cut out all refined carbs, like cake,
>> cookies, crackers, cereals, bread, beer, etc. Like Dave said, jes eat
>> more veggies and fruits.
>>
>> My problem is, I'm put off by the overwhelming commercialism of the
>> whole thing. It's almost impossible to find any info without being
>> bombarded with a barrage of books, ebooks, plans, lists, etc, that ALL
>> want $$$$!!! Even the originating doctor --from the UofCO, no less--
>> looks more like a snake oil salesman than someone who cares about my
>> health. Not at all reasuring.
>>
>There are plenty of Paleo bloggers who put out good recipes and once
>you get used to that style of cooking, you'll be able to look at other
>recipes and decide what fits or how to make them fit. Here's
>something to get you started.
>http://www.rubiesandradishes.com/201...redient-paleo/
>http://paleopolly.com/2013/12/13/a-w...-cooker-ideas/
>http://www.fitsugar.com/Healthy-Pale...photo-33132337
>http://nomnompaleo.com/ for mayonnaise and pot de crème recipes
>
snippage

Thank you so much for the links sf. I snagged a recipe from the
fitsugar site, the pancake recipe. I made some tonight, they are
wonderful. Now I'm all set for tomorow morning.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/koko181/11791516213/

koko
--
Food is our common ground, a universal experience
James Beard

www.kokoscornerblog.com

"Bryan-TGWWW" > wrote in message
...
> On Sunday, January 5, 2014 3:06:17 PM UTC-6, sf wrote:
>>
>> I will caution you about hunger management if you go strict Paleo.
>>
>> You need some carbs to keep the cravings away.
>
> NO! YOU DON'T!!!!

I would have to say that this can vary from person to person. The South
Beach diet is based on keeping cravings away. For the first two weeks,
carbs are restricted with the exception of beans. Some carbs are added back
in but others are not allowed as they claim they can cause carb cravings.
Some of those foods are watermelon, bananas, potoatoes, peas, corn and of
course, sugar.

I do know extreme carb cravers and they said that this diet worked for them.
I know other carb cravers who could not even do this diet because their
cravings were so intense that they could not stop eating the sugar!

I myself am not a carb craver. Not by the definition I have seen. Yes, I
will crave speficic carbs like popcorn and beans. But... From what I have
read, a true carb craver will not be able to resist something like a plate
of Oreos set in front of them. Or the bread basket. I have seen this
happen to people. They have no self contol. That just is not me.

I also don't usually crave protein foods except for beans. But I do know
people who crave meat, cheese, even eggs. I suppose a paleo type diet would
work for me.

I guess I am odd. What I do crave almost all the time is that which I can
not eat much of because I don't digest them. Raw veggies! That's where the
cross country moves used to get me. I always traveled with cans of green
beans, kidney beans and a few other foods. If need be I could make a meal
out of these things and they made good snacks. But eating in restaurant
after restaurant left me wanting. Unless they had a kid's menu that offered
raw veggies (and some places do), the best I could do was a salad which
wasn't necessarily all that fresh or nutritious because it was little more
than iceberg lettuce.

I remember my first trip to Winco. I stood in that huge produce department
and said to daughter, "This is heaven!" For me there is nothing better,
except perhaps for beans. I could well live on beans and raw produce with
some occasional popcorn thrown in.
>> My advice is to learn
>>
>> how to manage your meal planning through the American Diabetes
>>
>> Association. My husband is doing very well - not constantly hungry
>>
>> and keeps his blood sugar in check (normal, in fact) without
>>
>> medication after we took the class (thank you, Kaiser) and he learned
>>
>> how to make healthy choices.
>>
>> http://www.diabetes.org/food-and-fit...hat-can-i-eat/
>>
>> I encourage you to choose low-carb, not no-carb.
>>
> Seriously restrict carbs until you get past the freak-out withdrawal
> stage.

Could be but... If there are blood sugar issues this could backfire. I am
one diabetic who can not do low carb. When I have tried it, not only does
it leave me insanely grouchy but it raises my blood sugar up to around 300
where it stays until I finally eat enough carbs. And there is a fine line
for me between enough and too much. Normally that would be 30 grams at
breakfast and 45 grams at dinner. But this is something everyone must
figure out for themselves.
>
> Do not fear fats. Eat avocados. Eat nuts like cashews, pecans, almonds.
> Eat lots of green leafy veggies. Eat carbs ONLY as a treat. Don't
> believe
> the crap that idiots will tell you about "complex" carbs. Download
> several
> versions of the glycemic index.

The glycemic index did not work for me. A piece of white bread or a white
potato work better for me than brown rice or whole wheat bread. Alas, I
prefer the whole grains. But... I think because I don't digest them well,
they sit in my stomach for too long and the blood sugar goes up. I did
finally find a whole wheat bread that works for me. But some other foods
that should work, like lentils, give me very high blood sugar. So I either
don't eat those things at all or eat very tiny amounts such as in a soup
with mixed vegetables.

On 2014-01-06, Steve Freides > wrote:

> I've chimed in twice already on this thread but I'll make one reply
> directly to you.
>
> You don't need to "go Paleo" as an all-or-nothing proposition. Read
> about it, understand the principles, and start - gradually - changing
> your diet. Any time you move in the direction of a less processed,
> closer to the source kind of food, you'll be doing something positive
> for yourself and your diet. Diets get to be like religious wars -
> there's no need for that.

I've read them, so will respond to this direct post.

I agree, Steve. I'm too old and have suffered too many diets to be
imfluenced/impressed by what others may claim. Like I said, I'm
embracing this regimen on a skeptical basis, but like the conceptual
basis behind it. I know that we've been brainwashed for the last half
century by the grain industry and have all become "crackers". Ppl who
can't survive without a grain based fix.

Even fruits have been replicated in grain form. Banana Twinkies
scream out in my brain! Likewise, pies, tarts, candies, etc. Can't
we eat a fruit w/o a grain crust? Can't we eat a veggie or meat w/o
it being in a dough coffin? Wraps? Tortillas? Sandwiches? Pot
pies? Can't a piece of meat be served w/o it being inconito in a
grain based disguise? Battered fish, Beef Wellington? Buns around
every meat variation ever created? I recall, with affection, the
protein burger from In and Out burger. They really were quite
delicious. So much so, I never missed the bun.

We'll see.

nb

"John J" > wrote in message
...

> There are still people who are able to eat moderate portions of food.
> This fear of carbs is for people with no self control who will
> otherwise stuff themselves into obesity and diabetes.

And such people do exist.

"Jeßus" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 06 Jan 2014 09:48:52 +1100, John J > wrote:
>
>>This fear of carbs is for people with no self control who will
>>otherwise stuff themselves into obesity and diabetes.
>
> That is most people.

I don't know about that.

"Jeßus" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 5 Jan 2014 14:28:59 -0800 (PST), Bryan-TGWWW
> > wrote:
>
>>On Sunday, January 5, 2014 3:06:17 PM UTC-6, sf wrote:
>>>
>>> I will caution you about hunger management if you go strict Paleo.
>>>
>>> You need some carbs to keep the cravings away.
>>
>>NO! YOU DON'T!!!!
>
> Agree absolutely. That was a bloody stupid statement from SF.
> Please ignore it. If somebody struggles to maintain a paleo diet due
> to lack of carbs, then they may as well give up. There is no easier
> diet out there.

Would not be easy for me to do at all. Because I can't digest most of those
foods!

I do not think there is one diet that works for all. But I also disagree
about the some carbs keep cravings away. The carb cravers that I know will
lose control when confronted with carbs. Any carbs.

On Sun, 05 Jan 2014 20:04:47 -0800, wrote:

> On Sun, 05 Jan 2014 13:06:17 -0800, sf > wrote:
>
> >On 5 Jan 2014 20:17:22 GMT, notbob > wrote:
> >
> >> I'm giving it a try. Mainly cuz I GOTTA lose some weight. Anyway, is
> >> it a viable eating approach or jes another scam? It appeals to me cuz
> >> it allows a lotta veggies and some fruits. Not ultra restrictive like
> >> Atkins. Basically, I jes plan to cut out all refined carbs, like cake,
> >> cookies, crackers, cereals, bread, beer, etc. Like Dave said, jes eat
> >> more veggies and fruits.
> >>
> >> My problem is, I'm put off by the overwhelming commercialism of the
> >> whole thing. It's almost impossible to find any info without being
> >> bombarded with a barrage of books, ebooks, plans, lists, etc, that ALL
> >> want $$$$!!! Even the originating doctor --from the UofCO, no less--
> >> looks more like a snake oil salesman than someone who cares about my
> >> health. Not at all reasuring.
> >>
> >There are plenty of Paleo bloggers who put out good recipes and once
> >you get used to that style of cooking, you'll be able to look at other
> >recipes and decide what fits or how to make them fit. Here's
> >something to get you started.
> >http://www.rubiesandradishes.com/201...redient-paleo/
> >http://paleopolly.com/2013/12/13/a-w...-cooker-ideas/
> >http://www.fitsugar.com/Healthy-Pale...photo-33132337
> >http://nomnompaleo.com/ for mayonnaise and pot de crème recipes
> >
> snippage
>
> Thank you so much for the links sf. I snagged a recipe from the
> fitsugar site, the pancake recipe. I made some tonight, they are
> wonderful. Now I'm all set for tomorow morning.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/koko181/11791516213/
>
Glad you found something of interest!

--
"Corporations aren't people, they're Republicans"
(Rev Al Sharpton 10/7/2011)

Susan wrote:
> x-no-archive: eys
>
> On 1/5/2014 5:58 PM, tert in seattle wrote:
>> Okay, sorry, I just have to ask -- what does this exercise/appetite/
>> weight-gain curve look like? You can just sketch it out and scan it
>> and post a link if you like, or do it ascii-art style.
>
>
> One serious variable is the amount of the steroid, cortisol, elevation;
> exercise causes it in everyone but the amount of cortisol and efficiency
> of its clearance is wildly variable.
>
> Cortisol causes a glucose rise leading to higher fat storage hormone,
> and also muscle catabolism and hunger. The higher glucose is also
> burned instead of fat stores for fuel when it's present.
> Different for everyone. Some folks just utilize the glucose and others,
> if they measure with a glucose meter, see a significant spike from exercise.
>
> Susan

there are a lot of other things involved

leptin, ghrelin

and then there's the diurnal thing

many variables ... it's not an area where certainty is called for in my
opinion

On Sunday, January 5, 2014 4:48:57 PM UTC-6, Jeßus wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Jan 2014 14:28:59 -0800 (PST), Bryan-TGWWW
>
> > wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Sunday, January 5, 2014 3:06:17 PM UTC-6, sf wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >> I will caution you about hunger management if you go strict Paleo.
>
> >>
>
> >> You need some carbs to keep the cravings away.
>
> >
>
> >NO! YOU DON'T!!!!
>
>
>
> Agree absolutely. That was a bloody stupid statement from SF.
>
> Please ignore it. If somebody struggles to maintain a paleo diet due
>
> to lack of carbs, then they may as well give up. There is no easier
>
> diet out there.

She was just parroting the crap that the diabetes dieticians *fed* her and
her husband. Carbs should be treats, never staples.

--B

On Mon, 6 Jan 2014 05:13:00 -0800 (PST), Bryan-TGWWW
> wrote:

> On Sunday, January 5, 2014 4:48:57 PM UTC-6, Jeßus wrote:
> > On Sun, 5 Jan 2014 14:28:59 -0800 (PST), Bryan-TGWWW
> >
> > > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > >On Sunday, January 5, 2014 3:06:17 PM UTC-6, sf wrote:
> >
> > >>
> >
> > >> I will caution you about hunger management if you go strict Paleo.
> >
> > >>
> >
> > >> You need some carbs to keep the cravings away.
> >
> > >
> >
> > >NO! YOU DON'T!!!!
> >
> >
> >
> > Agree absolutely. That was a bloody stupid statement from SF.
> >
> > Please ignore it. If somebody struggles to maintain a paleo diet due
> >
> > to lack of carbs, then they may as well give up. There is no easier
> >
> > diet out there.
>
> She was just parroting the crap that the diabetes dieticians *fed* her and
> her husband. Carbs should be treats, never staples.
>

I don't see you or Jebus with a degree in anything medical, practicing
and well known the field. Until then you're full of shit so STFU, you
stupid assholes.

--
"Corporations aren't people, they're Republicans"
(Rev Al Sharpton 10/7/2011)

x-no-archive; yes

On 1/5/2014 11:44 PM, John J wrote:
> Lol, yes, preferably, but most people aren't at risk of that.

Sadly, not so true as it once was.

With at least 50% of the population expected to be diabetic (or already
so) and diabetic complications setting in much lower than the diagnostic
levels, more than half the population is at elevated risk of kidney and
vision damage, neuropathies, gastroparesis, and limb amputation or a
combination of those pluse cardiovascular disease.

Susan

On 1/6/2014 1:13 AM, tert in seattle wrote:
> usan
> there are a lot of other things involved
>
> leptin, ghrelin
>
> and then there's the diurnal thing
>
> many variables ... it's not an area where certainty is called for in my
> opinion
>

Absolutely true. And the "diurnal thing" is cortisol related.

Susan

On Mon, 06 Jan 2014 17:35:46 +1100, John J > wrote:

>On Mon, 06 Jan 2014 10:33:26 +1100, Jeßus > wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 06 Jan 2014 09:58:17 +1100, John J > wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 06 Jan 2014 09:54:54 +1100, Jeßus > wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Mon, 06 Jan 2014 09:48:52 +1100, John J > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>This fear of carbs is for people with no self control who will
>>>>>otherwise stuff themselves into obesity and diabetes.
>>>>
>>>>That is most people.
>>>
>>>Well, an increasing number, also depending on the country.
>>
>>These stats were lower than I expected, but still not great:
>>http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/he...health-obesity
>
>Samoa, 75% obesity:
>
>http://www.cbsnews.com/news/battling...-obesity-rate/
>
>But they found the perfect diet to solve the problem: start charging
>for plane tickets by the pound.

I doubt that will be enough!

"notbob" > wrote in message
...
> I'm giving it a try. Mainly cuz I GOTTA lose some weight. Anyway, is
> it a viable eating approach or jes another scam? It appeals to me cuz
> it allows a lotta veggies and some fruits. Not ultra restrictive like
> Atkins. Basically, I jes plan to cut out all refined carbs, like cake,
> cookies, crackers, cereals, bread, beer, etc. Like Dave said, jes eat
> more veggies and fruits.
>
> My problem is, I'm put off by the overwhelming commercialism of the
> whole thing. It's almost impossible to find any info without being
> bombarded with a barrage of books, ebooks, plans, lists, etc, that ALL
> want $$$$!!! Even the originating doctor --from the UofCO, no less--
> looks more like a snake oil salesman than someone who cares about my
> health. Not at all reasuring.
>
> nb
>
I've struggled with my weight since my teens when I was somewhat obese. The
ONLY way to lose weight that actually works is to eat less and to cut out or
severely ration bread and cakes. It takes a bit of discipline to ignore
those temptations at first but once you've lost the first 10lbs the success
really bolsters your resolve.

There is absolutely no need to follow a fancy schmancy fad diet!!!!!!!

Excercise helps but for me, a vigorous 10 mile bike ride only burns about
600 calories, and I have to be moderately fit to achieve that.
Graham

"Susan" > wrote in message

>
> Such bad information comes from the grain and soda pop money pouring into
> the pockets of putative public health authorities.
>

That stupid statement is akin to nutcases accusing "Big Pharma" of being
behind, inter alia, flu vaccination programs.
Graham

On Mon, 6 Jan 2014 05:13:00 -0800 (PST), Bryan-TGWWW
> wrote:

>On Sunday, January 5, 2014 4:48:57 PM UTC-6, Jeßus wrote:
>> On Sun, 5 Jan 2014 14:28:59 -0800 (PST), Bryan-TGWWW
>>
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Sunday, January 5, 2014 3:06:17 PM UTC-6, sf wrote:
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >> I will caution you about hunger management if you go strict Paleo.
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >> You need some carbs to keep the cravings away.
>>
>> >
>>
>> >NO! YOU DON'T!!!!
>>
>>
>>
>> Agree absolutely. That was a bloody stupid statement from SF.
>>
>> Please ignore it. If somebody struggles to maintain a paleo diet due
>>
>> to lack of carbs, then they may as well give up. There is no easier
>>
>> diet out there.
>
>She was just parroting the crap that the diabetes dieticians *fed* her and
>her husband. Carbs should be treats, never staples.

Exactly. Any recommendations from diabetes foundations or similar
should be viewed with healthy scepticism.

Carbs were a very scarce resource in nature (for the most part), and
our bodies are tuned to crave them. That was fine many years ago
pre-agriculture, but now we have unlimited access to them.

On Mon, 6 Jan 2014 09:21:38 -0600, Sqwertz >
wrote:

>On Mon, 06 Jan 2014 06:39:22 -0800, sf wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 6 Jan 2014 05:13:00 -0800 (PST), Bryan-TGWWW
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> On Sunday, January 5, 2014 4:48:57 PM UTC-6, Jeßus wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 5 Jan 2014 14:28:59 -0800 (PST), Bryan-TGWWW
>>>>
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >On Sunday, January 5, 2014 3:06:17 PM UTC-6, sf wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>> >> I will caution you about hunger management if you go strict Paleo.
>>>>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>> >> You need some carbs to keep the cravings away.
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> >NO! YOU DON'T!!!!
>>>>
>>>> Agree absolutely. That was a bloody stupid statement from SF.
>>>>
>>>> Please ignore it. If somebody struggles to maintain a paleo diet due
>>>>
>>>> to lack of carbs, then they may as well give up. There is no easier
>>>>
>>>> diet out there.
>>>
>>> She was just parroting the crap that the diabetes dieticians *fed* her and
>>> her husband. Carbs should be treats, never staples.
>>
>> I don't see you or Jebus with a degree in anything medical, practicing
>> and well known the field. Until then you're full of shit so STFU, you
>> stupid assholes.
>
>Welcome to the group, stupid assholes!

LOL , I guess that is the opposite of a smart-ass

In response to the heifer, my ex-GF is a nutritionist and we both have
had a big interest in this topic (amongst others) for many, many years
(not that you really need qualifications in this area, anyway). Anyone
who is just going to blindly accept anything the mainstream preaches
is always going to be largely misinformed.

On Sun, 5 Jan 2014 16:32:02 -0800 (PST), Kalmia
> wrote:

>Ever tried Weight Watchers? I have seen amazing and LASTING results on ppl who thought they could never lose. It's not a fad diet - just sensible eating in the right portions. Coupled with a religious exercise program, I don't think you can go wrong.

About 13 years ago when I was overweight and went low-carb (which
worked brilliantly, BTW), I would check the Weight Watchers products
in the supermarkets and almost *everything* of theirs was loaded with
carbs (even dairy products!) and low fat... how anyone lost weight on
them is beyond me.
I hope the above is no longer the case.