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General Cooking (rec.food.cooking) For general food and cooking discussion. Foods of all kinds, food procurement, cooking methods and techniques, eating, etc.

Stoneware vs Porcelain



 
 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 28-09-2004, 08:14 PM
Bob Simon
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Default Stoneware vs Porcelain

I have a set of four hand-made stoneware plates with tri-color glazes
that I consider art pieces as much as dinnerware. Years ago, we also
purchased a set of Royal Doulton porcelain plates for everyday use.
My wife says that since she has noticed scratches on the porcelain
plates, we should only serve meat on the stoneware which will resist
scratches from knives.

Does anyone happen to know which is usually harder: stoneware or
porcelain?

Even if the glazes are typically about equally scratch-resistant,
wouldn't it make sense to generally use the commercial porcelain
plates, reserving the decorative stoneware plates for special
occasions?

--
Bob Simon
remove both "x"s from domain for private replies
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 28-09-2004, 09:05 PM
PENMART01
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Default

Bob Simon writes:

I have a set of four hand-made stoneware plates with tri-color glazes
that I consider art pieces as much as dinnerware. Years ago, we also
purchased a set of Royal Doulton porcelain plates for everyday use.
My wife says that since she has noticed scratches on the porcelain
plates, we should only serve meat on the stoneware which will resist
scratches from knives.

Does anyone happen to know which is usually harder: stoneware or
porcelain?


Porcelain is the fired on glaze used on all ceramic dinnerware. Ceramic ware
labeled porcelain is generally fired at higher temperatures, but dosen't mean
it's surface is harder, just more translucent.

Even if the glazes are typically about equally scratch-resistant,
wouldn't it make sense to generally use the commercial porcelain
plates, reserving the decorative stoneware plates for special
occasions?


Actually if your dinnerware is particularly valuable, _to you_, neither should
be used with steak knives. Treat yourself to an inexpensive set of generic
dinner plates, or use metal steak platters as is used by most steakhouses.
Folks generally don't serve steak at formal dinners that require formal
dinnerware.


---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 29-09-2004, 02:33 PM
Kate Connally
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Default

Bob Simon wrote:

I have a set of four hand-made stoneware plates with tri-color glazes
that I consider art pieces as much as dinnerware. Years ago, we also
purchased a set of Royal Doulton porcelain plates for everyday use.
My wife says that since she has noticed scratches on the porcelain
plates, we should only serve meat on the stoneware which will resist
scratches from knives.

Does anyone happen to know which is usually harder: stoneware or
porcelain?


Well, I'm going to reply even though I don't really *know*.
I would say porcelain is less hard as one tends to think
of porcelain as being "delicate", and the term is used
metaphorically as when describing "porcelain" skin, meaning
"delicate. Also, the name "stoneware" implies hardness so
I'm thinking it would be harder. But then maybe it just
seems harder because it's so big and heavy compared to
porcelain, which is thinner and lighter.

Even if the glazes are typically about equally scratch-resistant,
wouldn't it make sense to generally use the commercial porcelain
plates, reserving the decorative stoneware plates for special
occasions?


I find it curious that, from what you've written above,
you seem to think of the porcelain as "everyday" ware and
the stoneware as your "good stuff". To me it would seem
to be the other way around. Generally porcelain is more
refined and used for "good", while stoneware is more mundane
and used for everyday. That being said, my stoneware *is*
my *good* stuff, but then I don't have any porcelain. And
also I suppose one can have cheap porcelain that would not
be as "nice" as some really good stoneware.

Kate

--
Bob Simon
remove both "x"s from domain for private replies



--
Kate Connally
“If I were as old as I feel, I’d be dead already.”
Goldfish: “The wholesome snack that smiles back,
Until you bite their heads off.”
What if the hokey pokey really *is* what it's all about?

  #4 (permalink)  
Old 29-09-2004, 03:44 PM
Bob Simon
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Default

On 28 Sep 2004 20:05:38 GMT, (PENMART01) wrote:

Actually if your dinnerware is particularly valuable, _to you_, neither should
be used with steak knives. Treat yourself to an inexpensive set of generic
dinner plates, or use metal steak platters as is used by most steakhouses.
Folks generally don't serve steak at formal dinners that require formal
dinnerware.


Sheldon,
Thank you for the suggestion. I did a Google search for "metal steak
plates" and found an ebay auction that may be suitable:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=11 649

Do you have any idea if these are likely to be made of steel? If so,
I'll try to buy them. But my 82 year old dad is taking Aricept and
I've read that tiny amounts of aluminum can cause brain damage. I
doubt if the seller knows what they're made of but I'd feel a lot
better if I were at least somewhat confident that my steak plates were
steel.

--
Bob Simon
remove both "x"s from domain for private replies
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 29-09-2004, 03:49 PM
kilikini
Usenet poster
 
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Default


"Bob Simon" wrote in message
...
On 28 Sep 2004 20:05:38 GMT, (PENMART01) wrote:

Actually if your dinnerware is particularly valuable, _to you_, neither
should
be used with steak knives. Treat yourself to an inexpensive set of
generic
dinner plates, or use metal steak platters as is used by most steakhouses.
Folks generally don't serve steak at formal dinners that require formal
dinnerware.


Sheldon,
Thank you for the suggestion. I did a Google search for "metal steak
plates" and found an ebay auction that may be suitable:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=11 649

Do you have any idea if these are likely to be made of steel? If so,
I'll try to buy them. But my 82 year old dad is taking Aricept and
I've read that tiny amounts of aluminum can cause brain damage. I
doubt if the seller knows what they're made of but I'd feel a lot
better if I were at least somewhat confident that my steak plates were
steel.

--
Bob Simon
remove both "x"s from domain for private replies




Bob, alot of those metal steak plates are pewter. Why not just e-mail the
seller of the auction and ask?

kili


  #6 (permalink)  
Old 29-09-2004, 03:55 PM
Bob Simon
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Posts: n/a
Default

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 09:33:10 -0400, Kate Connally
wrote:

Bob Simon wrote:

I have a set of four hand-made stoneware plates with tri-color glazes
that I consider art pieces as much as dinnerware. Years ago, we also
purchased a set of Royal Doulton porcelain plates for everyday use.
My wife says that since she has noticed scratches on the porcelain
plates, we should only serve meat on the stoneware which will resist
scratches from knives.

Does anyone happen to know which is usually harder: stoneware or
porcelain?


Well, I'm going to reply even though I don't really *know*.
I would say porcelain is less hard as one tends to think
of porcelain as being "delicate", and the term is used
metaphorically as when describing "porcelain" skin, meaning
"delicate. Also, the name "stoneware" implies hardness so
I'm thinking it would be harder. But then maybe it just
seems harder because it's so big and heavy compared to
porcelain, which is thinner and lighter.


Kate,
Thank you for sharing your perspective. My wife may be thinking along
these lines, too.

Even if the glazes are typically about equally scratch-resistant,
wouldn't it make sense to generally use the commercial porcelain
plates, reserving the decorative stoneware plates for special
occasions?


I find it curious that, from what you've written above,
you seem to think of the porcelain as "everyday" ware and
the stoneware as your "good stuff". To me it would seem
to be the other way around. Generally porcelain is more
refined and used for "good", while stoneware is more mundane
and used for everyday. That being said, my stoneware *is*
my *good* stuff, but then I don't have any porcelain. And
also I suppose one can have cheap porcelain that would not
be as "nice" as some really good stoneware.


Perhaps I was mistaken when I used the word porcelain. I looked it up
and see that technically it's a type of clay composed primarily of
kaolin. I don't know what type of clay our Royal Doulton plates are
made of; I called them porcelain because they are white.

The reason that I do not value them as highly as my stoneware is
because they are commercial and therefore replaceable. My four
stoneware plates, while similar enought to be considered a set, are
each unique. (And I see that you too appreciate the melding of
function and aesthetics one gets from good stoneware.)

--
Bob Simon
remove both "x"s from domain for private replies
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 29-09-2004, 04:59 PM
PENMART01
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Boob writes

I doubt if the seller knows what they're made of but I'd feel a lot
better if I were at least somewhat confident that my steak plates were
steel.


Boob, alot of those metal steak plates are pewter.

kili


None are of pewter... and STOP writing "alot"... makes you appear a ****ING
IGNORANT JERK.

Pewter has a relatively low melting point that would not hold up at typical
home oven temps (would deform considerably at about 300F and liquify at 600-
700F). But more importantly pewter is no longer used for food utensils as it's
an alloy of tin and *lead*... and lead definitely causes brain damage, which I
highly suspect is why certain individuals write "alot"... gross brain damage,
there is no other explanation.


---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 29-09-2004, 04:59 PM
PENMART01
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Boob writes

I doubt if the seller knows what they're made of but I'd feel a lot
better if I were at least somewhat confident that my steak plates were
steel.


Boob, alot of those metal steak plates are pewter.

kili


None are of pewter... and STOP writing "alot"... makes you appear a ****ING
IGNORANT JERK.

Pewter has a relatively low melting point that would not hold up at typical
home oven temps (would deform considerably at about 300F and liquify at 600-
700F). But more importantly pewter is no longer used for food utensils as it's
an alloy of tin and *lead*... and lead definitely causes brain damage, which I
highly suspect is why certain individuals write "alot"... gross brain damage,
there is no other explanation.


---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 29-09-2004, 05:04 PM
PENMART01
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Boob, *alot* of those metal steak plates are pewter. Why not just e-mail the

seller of the auction and ask?


Thank you. I've done that but haven't heard back yet. I'm just
afraid the seller will have no idea. Your reply at least provided
some useful information.

Boob Simpleton


Yeah, right... useful information yer ass... you're low IQ just dropped another
5%, now you're even more stupid.

Hehe, if I didn't know this was for real it would be better than an SNL
farce... what sickos!


---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 29-09-2004, 05:04 PM
PENMART01
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Boob, *alot* of those metal steak plates are pewter. Why not just e-mail the

seller of the auction and ask?


Thank you. I've done that but haven't heard back yet. I'm just
afraid the seller will have no idea. Your reply at least provided
some useful information.

Boob Simpleton


Yeah, right... useful information yer ass... you're low IQ just dropped another
5%, now you're even more stupid.

Hehe, if I didn't know this was for real it would be better than an SNL
farce... what sickos!


---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 29-09-2004, 05:06 PM
Bob Simon
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:49:47 GMT, "kilikini"
wrote:

Bob, alot of those metal steak plates are pewter. Why not just e-mail the
seller of the auction and ask?


Just heard back from the vendor. The steak plates they are selling
are aluminum.

--
Bob Simon
remove both "x"s from domain for private replies
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 29-09-2004, 05:10 PM
PENMART01
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Kate hypothesized:
Well, I'm going to reply even though I don't really *know*.
porcelain, which is thinner and lighter.


gibberish snipped

Kate,
Thank you for sharing your perspective. My wife may be thinking along
these lines, too.


Um... Kate said she doesn't really know... and she really doesn't. And now
you're openly admiting that your wife is brain damaged too, yoose two must have
the same father. Sheesh!


---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 29-09-2004, 07:20 PM
PENMART01
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

it seems prudent to avoid unnecessary exposure to aluminum.

Bob Simon


Considering aluminum is a chief component comprising the Earth's crust you'd
need to leave the planet... which considering your IQ (lack thereof) would be
no great loss.

Encyclopædia Britannica

aluminum

also spelled Aluminium chemical element, a lightweight, silvery-white metal
of main Group IIIa (boron group) of the periodic table. Aluminum is the most
abundant metallic element in the Earth's crust and the most widely used
nonferrous metal. Because of its chemical activity, aluminum never occurs in
the metallic form in nature, but its compounds are present to a greater or
lesser extent in almost all rocks, vegetation, and animals. Aluminum is
concentrated in the outer 10 miles (16 km) of the Earth's crust, of which it
constitutes about 8 percent by weight; it is exceeded in amount only by oxygen
and silicon.
---

---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 29-09-2004, 07:37 PM
Doug Freyburger
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Posts: n/a
Default

Bob Simon wrote:

I have a set of four hand-made stoneware plates with tri-color glazes
that I consider art pieces as much as dinnerware. Years ago, we also
purchased a set of Royal Doulton porcelain plates for everyday use.
My wife says that since she has noticed scratches on the porcelain
plates, we should only serve meat on the stoneware which will resist
scratches from knives.

Does anyone happen to know which is usually harder: stoneware or
porcelain?


Real porcelin is often so thin light will shine through it. It
has a reputation for fragility not because it is less hard, but
because it is so thin. In fact, the ceramic used in real
porcelin is a bit harder than the ceramics used in other
stoneware and that's why it *can* be made so thin.

So basically, I don't think your Royal Doulton are real porcelin
and that makes your question about relative hardness less easy
to answer. Very likely they are made of similar ceramic and
the difference in thickness is different in strength.

But you are discussing scratches here, and strength is about
breaking more than it scratches. Scratches are effected by
the glaze not by the rest of the ceramic material.

It is very likely that both have glass glaze, equally scratchable
to a couple of decimal points. What's the chance that any plate
will be coated with syntheitc sapphire or whatever? Near
zero unless the plate was sold by Calphalon or Magnalite.

Even if the glazes are typically about equally scratch-resistant,
wouldn't it make sense to generally use the commercial porcelain
plates, reserving the decorative stoneware plates for special
occasions?


The words commercial and decorative should be enough to answer that.
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 29-09-2004, 07:52 PM
Ken
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Posts: n/a
Default

Bob Simon wrote in message . ..
I have a set of four hand-made stoneware plates with tri-color glazes
that I consider art pieces as much as dinnerware. Years ago, we also
purchased a set of Royal Doulton porcelain plates for everyday use.
My wife says that since she has noticed scratches on the porcelain
plates, we should only serve meat on the stoneware which will resist
scratches from knives.

Does anyone happen to know which is usually harder: stoneware or
porcelain?

Even if the glazes are typically about equally scratch-resistant,
wouldn't it make sense to generally use the commercial porcelain
plates, reserving the decorative stoneware plates for special
occasions?


Bob,

As you noted, the part that's scratching isn't the porcelain, it's the
glaze, the glass on the outside of the piece. Good stoneware and
porcelain will have about equally durable glazes for the main glaze.
(Earthenware is much softer.) But many porcelains use an overglaze, a
second glaze put on top with a second firing. The most common one
would be a gold stripe around the edge of the plate. The overglaze
will be much more delicate than the main glaze. I don't know what
pattern you have, so I can't comment on this except to generalize. But
any plate is going to get some scratches with use. If you want your
stoneware to stay pristine, you can't use them.

It's sort of like having a classic car. If you take it out for a
spin, it may get a dent or ding. But if it sits in the garage, then
you can't enjoy it. It's your call.

Ken
 




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