I've been experimenting with sauce for pasta for many years. When I
speak of sauce, I'm thinking of the most sublime, whether Marinara,
Bolognese, etc.

I've converged on a recipe/process that yields a satisfying result,
but I know much better is possible.

Some conclusions:

* The quality of canned tomato products is critical. Hunt's once
yielded good results but I now get an excessively sharp, tangy sauce
from their products. Tuttorosso plums now yield my best sauce.
My garden Romas or San Marzanos have always yielded sauces
inferior to that made with canned products.

* More bacon fat and less Olive oil. I saute everything in Bacon fat
and a small amount of Olive oil. Bacon fat seems to mellow the sauce
and add richness.

* Peppers: I've been adding one each--chopped, sauted green, yellow
and red sweet pepper. Seems to naturally contribute to the proper
note of sweetness, as does lightly browned onion, of which I add
1/2 - 1 chopped. I do add perhaps 1/2 teaspoon brown sugar.
Onion variety? Sweet, yellow, red, white--I've not come to any
conclusions.

* Portobello mushrooms in rather large quantities, browned in butter.

* Meat--I'm now using pork sausage almost exclusively. I have a local
real butcher that produces superior sausage. I do not drain any fats
from my sauce.

* Extensive simmering times, 3-4 hours.

* Garlic: Less is better. We're garlic nuts but I now add 1-2 cloves
shredded instead of 5-6, depending on clove size and garlic flavor
intensity.

* Spices and seasoning: Rather simple, Kosher salt, ground black
pepper, fresh or dried Basil, dash Worcestershire which I think
adds complexity.
Wife hates Oregano. Not tried bay leaves, parsley, thyme, etc.

What are your experiences regarding process? What about wine?

Finally--A superior sauce is utterly subjective, of course. I'm
interested in your agonies and ecstasies.

Scapaflow

Scapaflow wrote:

What are your experiences regarding process? What about wine?

Please don't be offended, but I'm thinking heartburn. Plus I do not
like wine in my sauce, but again, that's me. Easy on the grease.

I would throw in a couple of country style pork ribs, or other pork
chops. They add much flavor and texture to the sauce, as taught to
me by my ex mil who learned from her mother from Sicily.

nancy

What are your experiences regarding process? What about wine?

Finally--A superior sauce is utterly subjective, of course. I'm
interested in your agonies and ecstasies.

Scapaflow


I prefer my sauce to not be sweet and am careful about the tomatoes and the
sauce, I also like to add some red wine during the simmer, beef broth can also
add a lot of flavor if you feel you need it.
Rosie

"Scapaflow" wrote in message
...
I've been experimenting with sauce for pasta for many years. When I
speak of sauce, I'm thinking of the most sublime, whether Marinara,
Bolognese, etc.

I've converged on a recipe/process that yields a satisfying result,
but I know much better is possible.

Some conclusions:

* The quality of canned tomato products is critical. Hunt's once
yielded good results but I now get an excessively sharp, tangy sauce
from their products. Tuttorosso plums now yield my best sauce.
My garden Romas or San Marzanos have always yielded sauces
inferior to that made with canned products.

* More bacon fat and less Olive oil. I saute everything in Bacon fat
and a small amount of Olive oil. Bacon fat seems to mellow the sauce
and add richness.

* Peppers: I've been adding one each--chopped, sauted green, yellow
and red sweet pepper. Seems to naturally contribute to the proper
note of sweetness, as does lightly browned onion, of which I add
1/2 - 1 chopped. I do add perhaps 1/2 teaspoon brown sugar.
Onion variety? Sweet, yellow, red, white--I've not come to any
conclusions.

* Portobello mushrooms in rather large quantities, browned in butter.

* Meat--I'm now using pork sausage almost exclusively. I have a local
real butcher that produces superior sausage. I do not drain any fats
from my sauce.

* Extensive simmering times, 3-4 hours.

* Garlic: Less is better. We're garlic nuts but I now add 1-2 cloves
shredded instead of 5-6, depending on clove size and garlic flavor
intensity.

* Spices and seasoning: Rather simple, Kosher salt, ground black
pepper, fresh or dried Basil, dash Worcestershire which I think
adds complexity.
Wife hates Oregano. Not tried bay leaves, parsley, thyme, etc.

What are your experiences regarding process? What about wine?

Finally--A superior sauce is utterly subjective, of course. I'm
interested in your agonies and ecstasies.

Scapaflow
==
My "secret ingredient" was always Frank's Ketchup Spice. I haven't been
able to find it for years and do not recall what was in it to blend my own.
==
==

Scapaflow wrote:
Scapaflow writes:


I've been experimenting with sauce for pasta for many years. When I
speak of sauce, I'm thinking of the most sublime, whether Marinara,
Bolognese, etc.

One that I don't notice on your list is a base of mirepoix-- finely cut-up
onion, carrot, celery which has been softened in olive oil. You can speed up
this step by putting ingredients in a food processor but it comes out better if
you cut it up by hand. A real addition to any tomato-based sauce IMO.

Naomi,
Interesting you note that Mirepoix cut-up by hand is superior to that
rendered by a food processor. I've not tried Mirepoix, but this
observation is very interesting, reinforcing my conclusion that
process, sequence and method can be very important important.

Do you have a theory as to why cut up by hand is superior to using a
food processor?
Scapa



Probably because you liquefy some of the ingredients, and this, when
added to oil, is not a pretty picture. You want uniformity, which a
processor sometimes can't give.

Rich



Some of the other things on your list, I wouldn't do, and others I wouldn't
comment on not knowing the specific kind of sauce.

Would you care to discuss why you would not do certain things? I am
utterly open to suggestions. Regarding the kind of sauce: I would say
that what I'm producing currently is a sort of Bolegnese since ground
pork/beef has been a cornerstone. I did not include an exact recipe
for fear of tedium and the ongoing evolution of my sauce.


For herbs you might try marjoram and parsely and, sure, thyme. Not all at once
though, IMO. (Marjoram is a bit like oregano but milder.)


What are your experiences regarding process? What about wine?

In the sauce? Dry red.

Recommendations?
Scapaflow



Naomi D.





--
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Dum spiro, spero. (Cicero) As long as I breathe, I hope.

Scapaflow writes:

I've been experimenting with sauce for pasta for many years. When I
speak of sauce, I'm thinking of the most sublime, whether Marinara,
Bolognese, etc.

One that I don't notice on your list is a base of mirepoix-- finely cut-up
onion, carrot, celery which has been softened in olive oil. You can speed up
this step by putting ingredients in a food processor but it comes out better if
you cut it up by hand. A real addition to any tomato-based sauce IMO.
Naomi,
Interesting you note that Mirepoix cut-up by hand is superior to that
rendered by a food processor. I've not tried Mirepoix, but this
observation is very interesting, reinforcing my conclusion that
process, sequence and method can be very important important.

Do you have a theory as to why cut up by hand is superior to using a
food processor?
Scapa


Some of the other things on your list, I wouldn't do, and others I wouldn't
comment on not knowing the specific kind of sauce.
Would you care to discuss why you would not do certain things? I am
utterly open to suggestions. Regarding the kind of sauce: I would say
that what I'm producing currently is a sort of Bolegnese since ground
pork/beef has been a cornerstone. I did not include an exact recipe
for fear of tedium and the ongoing evolution of my sauce.


For herbs you might try marjoram and parsely and, sure, thyme. Not all at once
though, IMO. (Marjoram is a bit like oregano but milder.)

What are your experiences regarding process? What about wine?

In the sauce? Dry red.
Recommendations?
Scapaflow



Naomi D.

On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 19:32:25 -0500, Nancy Young
wrote:

Scapaflow wrote:

What are your experiences regarding process? What about wine?

Please don't be offended, but I'm thinking heartburn. Plus I do not
like wine in my sauce, but again, that's me. Easy on the grease.
Nancy,
Heartburn--I assume you are referring to the practice of not draining
the grease and liquids from the meat. Yes--I used to do this as a
matter of course and was surprised to discover that we liked the
result better without draining.

In past batches I've tried various whites and reds and have never been
quite satisfied with the result.

I would throw in a couple of country style pork ribs, or other pork
chops. They add much flavor and texture to the sauce, as taught to
me by my ex mil who learned from her mother from Sicily.
Noted!
Scapaflow

nancy

From:

One that I don't notice on your list is a base of mirepoix-- finely cut-up
onion, carrot, celery which has been softened in olive oil.

A requisite for my Sunday Gravy recipe...not necessarily for my family's meat
sauce, and never for marinara.

it comes out better if
you cut it up by hand.

Definitely. And well sweated out in olive oil before adding any meat or tomato
products.

For herbs you might try marjoram and parsely and, sure, thyme. Not all at
once
though, IMO. (Marjoram is a bit like oregano but milder.)

Sunday Gravy includes dried herbs including marjoram, oregano, thyme and sweet
basil and moderate amounts of garlic.

Family's Meat sauce includes only dried oregano and basil and abundant amounts
of fresh garlic, both whole cloves and some finely minced.

Marinara includes garlic puree, fresh basil and fresh oregano.

What are your experiences regarding process? What about wine?

Sunday Gravy uses wine to deglaze the pan the mirepoix is cooked in...and
reduced before the crushed tomatoes are added.

Family's Meat Sauce uses 32 oz of Budweiser beer, added with crushed tomatoes,
tomato paste and chunky tomato sauce.

Marinara has one cup of red wine added to the onion/garlic melange and simmered
briefly over medium high heat before adding crushed tomatoes. Fresh basil and
oregano is added after 45 minutes of simmering. This sauce is cooked down and
then emuslfied in a food processor.

Note: Other ingredients/methods are not included as they weren't directly
addressed.

Ellen

Gini wrote:

==
My "secret ingredient" was always Frank's Ketchup Spice. I haven't been
able to find it for years and do not recall what was in it to blend my own.
==
==


I got interested in seeing if I could find it for you so I googled. I
wasn't able to find it, but I came close, sort of. Looking for "Frank's
Catsup Spice" (note alternate spelling), I found someone selling old
tins. I wonder if the ingredients could be found on the tin so you
could make it from available spices.
(http://marsellz.11net.com/jars2.htm) It is called "Frank's Dove Brand
Catsup Spice." Google had another link that looked promising, but then
I couldn't get that one to work.

--Lia

On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 19:15:23 -0500, Scapaflow
wrote:

I've been experimenting with sauce for pasta for many years. When I
speak of sauce, I'm thinking of the most sublime, whether Marinara,
Bolognese, etc.

I've converged on a recipe/process that yields a satisfying result,
but I know much better is possible.

Since I almost never repeat myself eactly, this may not be completely
responsive to the idea of zeroing in on a perfect anything.


I usually start by chopping an onion. This gives me a few moments to
think of what to do next. trowing in a bay leaf with the onion doesn't
hurt.

The fat can vary. Sometimes I dice an ounce or so of cured guanciale
(pig snout or jowl) and render it a bit before putting in the chopped
onion. But sometimes I just use OO. Local smoked bacon from my pig
man is also nice (Jim Grillo comes to the Saturday Greenmarket in
Union Sq., NYC).

If it gets cooked a lot I think lots of garlic is good. If you put it
in just at the end a little caution is advisable.

When good tomatoes are coming in at the greenmarket, I like to
blanche, seed, and dice some of those, but I usually use some good
canned tomatoes along with.

Sometimes a little hot sauce. If you can put in just shy of enough to
tell it's there, it adds depth to a sauce.

I like bitter Morrocan olives, pitted and cut up. as little
punctuation marks in a sauce. Also, if you can get some white
anchovies, they can add something subtle, without being recognized.

I think you should try fresh thyme once in a while. It works well with
the other things you use.

If your pasta is really good, you could use nothing but butter,
garlic, and mushrooms. Use some shiitake caps along with your
portobellos.




Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a


Does one child rape really change Strom Thurmond's lifetime record?
For better or worse?

(SportKite1) wrote in message ...
From:

One that I don't notice on your list is a base of mirepoix-- finely cut-up
onion, carrot, celery which has been softened in olive oil.

A requisite for my Sunday Gravy recipe...not necessarily for my family's meat
sauce, and never for marinara.

it comes out better if
you cut it up by hand.

Definitely. And well sweated out in olive oil before adding any meat or tomato
products.

For herbs you might try marjoram and parsely and, sure, thyme. Not all at
once
though, IMO. (Marjoram is a bit like oregano but milder.)

Sunday Gravy includes dried herbs including marjoram, oregano, thyme and sweet
basil and moderate amounts of garlic.

Family's Meat sauce includes only dried oregano and basil and abundant amounts
of fresh garlic, both whole cloves and some finely minced.

Marinara includes garlic puree, fresh basil and fresh oregano.

What are your experiences regarding process? What about wine?

Sunday Gravy uses wine to deglaze the pan the mirepoix is cooked in...and
reduced before the crushed tomatoes are added.

Family's Meat Sauce uses 32 oz of Budweiser beer, added with crushed tomatoes,
tomato paste and chunky tomato sauce.

Marinara has one cup of red wine added to the onion/garlic melange and simmered
briefly over medium high heat before adding crushed tomatoes. Fresh basil and
oregano is added after 45 minutes of simmering. This sauce is cooked down and
then emuslfied in a food processor.

Note: Other ingredients/methods are not included as they weren't directly
addressed.

Ellen

WARNING: Probable Heresy
I start with jarred sauce - Prego, Ragu, whatever's on sale.
Preferably with chunky tomato and onion or mushrooms.
NOT HUNT'S in the can!!!!!!! And no "generic" stuff either.
Add sauteed ground beef and/or mild pork sausage, onions,
peppers, mushrooms - whatever's "missing" fom the jar.
Don't drain anything. Add a little EVOO if there are a lot of veggies to saute.
A fat pinch of sugar, a shot of Tabasco, a couple of bay leaves
and some basil (actually, a LOT of basil). I taste and adjust,
simmering for about 30 to 45 minutes. Always linguini instead
of finer spaghetti or vermicelli because it's easier to cook perfectly
al dente. Serve with freshly grated parmesan or romano or aged provolone.

I would be doing this at work - psychosocial rehabilitation center.
Members are folks with serious and persistant mental illnesses.
Virtually all are poor and a fair number are homeless.We feed
people every day. Sometimes sandwiches & soup, sometimes potroast
with all the trimmings. I nver know until 1/2 hour before serving if I will
be feeding 8, 18 or 28. (Almost NEVER more than 30) That's why the
jarred sauce - I can adjust in minutes if 12 more hungry mouths show up.
They do not pay for meals except for a "special" dinner once a month for
$2 in advance (or $5 the same day) And lately we've been taking a buck
for dinner on Fridays. If they have no money we feed them anyway.

You shoulda seen our New Year's Party hors d'oeuvres!

Lynn from Fargo

"Scapaflow" wrote in message
...

In past batches I've tried various whites and reds and have never been
quite satisfied with the result.

I frequently use red vermouth. It is very hearty and adds a lot of depth. It
is somewhat sweet so I don't add extra sugar as I otherwise would.

Charlie

" wrote:

If the tomatoes you are growing are not to your liking, don't resort
to canned tomatoes for the sauce.

I don't know what your experience has been with them, but I find
canned tomatoes to be perfectly good for tomato sauce. Sometimes I
even prefer them to fresh, even at the height of tomato season.

nancy

"Julia Altshuler" wrote in message
news:FQ5Jb.712314$HS4.5098628@attbi_s01...
Gini wrote:

==
My "secret ingredient" was always Frank's Ketchup Spice. I haven't been
able to find it for years and do not recall what was in it to blend my
own.
==
==


I got interested in seeing if I could find it for you so I googled. I
wasn't able to find it, but I came close, sort of. Looking for "Frank's
Catsup Spice" (note alternate spelling), I found someone selling old
tins. I wonder if the ingredients could be found on the tin so you
could make it from available spices.

==
Thanks! I hadn't thought of that. I'm sure I can get a tin quite cheaply on
eBay
==
(http://marsellz.11net.com/jars2.htm) It is called "Frank's Dove Brand
Catsup Spice." Google had another link that looked promising, but then
I couldn't get that one to work.

--Lia

a pinch of cinnamon - never more than 1/4 teaspoon..

--

Laura


"Scapaflow" wrote in message
...
I've been experimenting with sauce for pasta for many years. When I
speak of sauce, I'm thinking of the most sublime, whether Marinara,
Bolognese, etc.

I've converged on a recipe/process that yields a satisfying result,
but I know much better is possible.

Some conclusions:

* The quality of canned tomato products is critical. Hunt's once
yielded good results but I now get an excessively sharp, tangy sauce
from their products. Tuttorosso plums now yield my best sauce.
My garden Romas or San Marzanos have always yielded sauces
inferior to that made with canned products.

* More bacon fat and less Olive oil. I saute everything in Bacon fat
and a small amount of Olive oil. Bacon fat seems to mellow the sauce
and add richness.

* Peppers: I've been adding one each--chopped, sauted green, yellow
and red sweet pepper. Seems to naturally contribute to the proper
note of sweetness, as does lightly browned onion, of which I add
1/2 - 1 chopped. I do add perhaps 1/2 teaspoon brown sugar.
Onion variety? Sweet, yellow, red, white--I've not come to any
conclusions.

* Portobello mushrooms in rather large quantities, browned in butter.

* Meat--I'm now using pork sausage almost exclusively. I have a local
real butcher that produces superior sausage. I do not drain any fats
from my sauce.

* Extensive simmering times, 3-4 hours.

* Garlic: Less is better. We're garlic nuts but I now add 1-2 cloves
shredded instead of 5-6, depending on clove size and garlic flavor
intensity.

* Spices and seasoning: Rather simple, Kosher salt, ground black
pepper, fresh or dried Basil, dash Worcestershire which I think
adds complexity.
Wife hates Oregano. Not tried bay leaves, parsley, thyme, etc.

What are your experiences regarding process? What about wine?

Finally--A superior sauce is utterly subjective, of course. I'm
interested in your agonies and ecstasies.

Scapaflow