Lucky us, the first suspected case of mad cow disease in the US has been
found in a Holstein in Washington. We heard about this shortly after we
left Central Market with some burger for dinner. SO decided to dispose
of the burger without using it. So we had frozen poultry entrees for
dinner. This is a helluva way to bring the cost of beef down.

Cindy

--
C.J. Fuller

Delete the obvious to email me

Hark! I heard Cindy Fuller say:

Lucky us, the first suspected case of mad cow disease in the US has been
found in a Holstein in Washington. We heard about this shortly after we
left Central Market with some burger for dinner. SO decided to dispose
of the burger without using it. So we had frozen poultry entrees for
dinner. This is a helluva way to bring the cost of beef down.

We won't be eating beef for a while either. Thank goodness for
Washington Grown Chickens... ;-)


--
j.j. ~ mom, gamer, novice cook ~
...fish heads, fish heads, eat them up, yum!

I have read that CJ cannot be contracted by humans via muscle tissue from
BSE contaminated animals, but only through brain tissue or the like. Also
that in the normal course of events, probability of contracting CJ is
similar to that of a double lightening strike.

Are people over-reacting? Thoughts?

JG

"John Gaquin" wrote:

I have read that CJ cannot be contracted by humans via muscle tissue from
BSE contaminated animals, but only through brain tissue or the like.

The "like" being spinal cord.

Also
that in the normal course of events, probability of contracting CJ is
similar to that of a double lightening strike.

A fair approximation, I would think. But, as the effects are not so
immediate, precise data have yet to emerge.

Are people over-reacting? Thoughts?

Yes. Big time. Some of the alternatives people might use also have
their hazards (e.g. poultry full of antibiotics).

One case of BSE in how many tens of millions of cattle? Get a sense of
perspective: wait for a second case.

--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED

John Gaquin wrote:

I have read that CJ cannot be contracted by humans via muscle tissue from
BSE contaminated animals, but only through brain tissue or the like.

"The like" includes spinal cord tissue.

Quoting from:
http://www.paralinks.net/spinal_cords.html

"If you're a fan of hamburgers, hot dogs, or luncheon meats,
odds are you sometimes eat small bits of cow spinal cords.
You can thank something called Advanced Meat Recovery
(AMR) for that."

"'Most AMR plants voluntarily remove spinal cords before
processing, ' says the American Meat Institute's Janet Riley.
But last year, in response to complaints from consumer groups
(including CSPI), the USDA surveyed seven AMR plants
in the U.S. The Feds found bits of spinal cord in two out of 11
meat samples."

Quoting from
http://www.cspinet.org/new/madcow_protection.html

"More than 100 people in Europe have died of vCJD.
The disease causes progressive brain damage, which
results in difficulty walking and speaking, memory loss,
decreased mental function, and, invariably, death.
BSE and vCJD are transmitted from cattle to other
cattle and to humans through feed and food contaminated
with small amounts of infected cattle brain, spinal cord,
or other nervous system tissue."

"The CSPI petition urged USDA to ban cattle spinal
columns and neck bones from processing through
advanced meat recovery (AMR) machines. Those
machines strip soft tissue (including meat and spinal cord)
from bones and produce 40 million pounds of meat paste
annually. That meat paste typically is used in the
production of hundreds of millions of pounds of
hot dogs, hamburgers, pizza toppings, and taco fillings."

"John Gaquin" wrote in message
...
I have read that CJ cannot be contracted by humans via muscle tissue from
BSE contaminated animals, but only through brain tissue or the like. Also
that in the normal course of events, probability of contracting CJ is
similar to that of a double lightening strike.

Are people over-reacting? Thoughts?

JG



Not eating beef for x-mas is overreacting.
It's not a big deal. Besides, you bought your roast long before the Mad Cow
crap came out.
One cow on one farm in one state. Yeah, yeah, I know-who knows what else is
out there? Is this going to make anyone a vegetarian? Doubtful. 'Sides, most
vegetarians I know are fat-too much rice pasta.

"robert" wrote in
.net:

"John Gaquin" wrote in message
...
I have read that CJ cannot be contracted by humans via muscle
tissue from BSE contaminated animals, but only through brain
tissue or the like. Also that in the normal course of events,
probability of contracting CJ is similar to that of a double
lightening strike.

Are people over-reacting? Thoughts?

Was Washington overreacting when they closed the border to Canadian
beef last summer because of exactly the same situation?

The human form of BSE, variant Creuzfeld-Jakob disease (vCJD), is
contracted by consuming tainted beef, this much is known. Its
appearance in Western Europe and the British Isles is consistent with
recent outbreaks.

How much needs to be consumed is not known or even what makes certain
people susceptible and others not. So far, the bulk of cases, over
100, have occurred in Great Britain, whereas only a few cases have
appearad in France and Ireland. I suspect the sample is not large
enough to draw conclusions, so if you want to add your body to the
corpus of knowledge, go right ahead. I'll pass, if you don't mind.

Basically, if you're a fool, you'll eat beef, if you're not, you'll
go veggie.

--

"I'm the master of low expectations."

GWB, aboard Air Force One, 04Jun2003

The really SPOOKY thing is that it was a "down" cow, meaning it was
already sick! Evidently our wonderful gov't allows them to slaughter
and feed us sick animals! According to the Portland Oregonian a measure
was just defeated in Congress this past Summer which would have
prevented this. Let's let our nitwits in WDC know we want this stopped!

Padraig Breathnach wrote:
"John Gaquin" wrote:


I have read that CJ cannot be contracted by humans via muscle tissue from
BSE contaminated animals, but only through brain tissue or the like.


The "like" being spinal cord.


Also
that in the normal course of events, probability of contracting CJ is
similar to that of a double lightening strike.


A fair approximation, I would think. But, as the effects are not so
immediate, precise data have yet to emerge.


Are people over-reacting? Thoughts?


Yes. Big time. Some of the alternatives people might use also have
their hazards (e.g. poultry full of antibiotics).

One case of BSE in how many tens of millions of cattle? Get a sense of
perspective: wait for a second case.

Michel Boucher wrote:

The human form of BSE, variant Creuzfeld-Jakob disease (vCJD), is
contracted by consuming tainted beef, this much is known.

Believed. The case for believing it is strong, but the mechanisms are
not understood.

Its
appearance in Western Europe and the British Isles is consistent with
recent outbreaks.

True.

How much needs to be consumed is not known or even what makes certain
people susceptible and others not. So far, the bulk of cases, over
100, have occurred in Great Britain, whereas only a few cases have
appearad in France and Ireland.

I think that it is one case in France and two in Ireland (one of those
two having spent many years in Britain).

I suspect the sample is not large
enough to draw conclusions, so if you want to add your body to the
corpus of knowledge, go right ahead. I'll pass, if you don't mind.

Feel free. But be aware that you probably take on many greater
avoidable risks without worry -- for example, driving a car or
crossing a street or changing a lightbulb.

Basically, if you're a fool, you'll eat beef, if you're not, you'll
go veggie.

I ate beef today (in Ireland) and I'm not worried. I don't think that
I'm a fool, but others might hold a different opinion.

It's a strange fact that we go to great pains to avoid some hazards,
and virtually ignore others.

--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED

In article ,
"John Gaquin" wrote:

I have read that CJ cannot be contracted by humans via muscle tissue from
BSE contaminated animals, but only through brain tissue or the like.

In today's Seattle Times, one of the articles cited a research report
which found that BSE prions were detectable in muscle tissue. This was
in a study using lab mice. Further work is probably needed to determine
if the same is true for cows and other food animals.

Also
that in the normal course of events, probability of contracting CJ is
similar to that of a double lightening strike.

Remember that very little is known about BSE and vCJD. Research on this
stuff only took off in the late 1980s. Couple that with the fact that
these diseases have a long incubation period (many years), and there is
good reason to be very conservative in preventive measures.

But the reaction of US regulatory authorities has not been very
aggressive. Our laws prohibit the use of cattle feedstocks containing
beef byproducts, but there is apparently a lot of noncompliance. I
think the US law allows beef byproducts to be fed to other food animals
(chickens, pigs, etc.).

Some European countries are now testing all slaughtered cattle. We are
currently testing only those animals which are show obvious indicators
of neurological impairment, plus some additional spot checks. This
means that cattle with BSE, but which have not progressed to impairment
symptoms, could be entering the food chain. We really don't know how
many humans are contracting vCJD, because (a) they may not show symptoms
for many years, (b) the symptoms can be confused with other conditions,
like Alzheimers, and (c) doctors rarely order the appropriate diagnostic
or post-mortem tests.

--
Julian Vrieslander

Padraig Breathnach wrote in
:

Michel Boucher wrote:

The human form of BSE, variant Creuzfeld-Jakob disease (vCJD), is
contracted by consuming tainted beef, this much is known.

Believed. The case for believing it is strong, but the mechanisms
are not understood.

Within reason, I think that the available evidence resolves itself in
actual knowledge. The simple fact that vCJD has only appeared in
individuals who have been in countries where BSE has been present
indicates a high degree of relevance. If it was more widespread than
BSE, then one might suppute a disconnection.

http://www.oie.int/esp/publicat/rapp...bse%20who-fao-
oie.htm#_Toc529794845

How much needs to be consumed is not known or even what makes
certain people susceptible and others not. So far, the bulk of
cases, over 100, have occurred in Great Britain, whereas only a
few cases have appearad in France and Ireland.

I think that it is one case in France and two in Ireland (one of
those two having spent many years in Britain).

There was also one in Canada last summer.

http://www.newscientist.com/hottopic...?id=ns99992656

The article also states that six cases of vCJD have been identified
in France as of last summer.

I suspect the sample is not large
enough to draw conclusions, so if you want to add your body to the
corpus of knowledge, go right ahead. I'll pass, if you don't
mind.

Feel free. But be aware that you probably take on many greater
avoidable risks without worry -- for example, driving a car or
crossing a street or changing a lightbulb.

You assume that I cross streets and change lightbulbs. A fairly
large assumption, I might point out :-)

Basically, if you're a fool, you'll eat beef, if you're not,
you'll go veggie.

I ate beef today (in Ireland) and I'm not worried. I don't think
that I'm a fool, but others might hold a different opinion.

I ate pork today, beef a week ago. My comment was to a USAian who
was wondering if s/he should be concerned. I am not concerned about
beef but I don't mind messing with their heads when the occasion
arises :-)

--
"I'm the master of low expectations."

GWB, aboard Air Force One, 04Jun2003

"John Gaquin" wrote in message ...
I have read that CJ cannot be contracted by humans via muscle tissue from
BSE contaminated animals, but only through brain tissue or the like. Also
that in the normal course of events, probability of contracting CJ is
similar to that of a double lightening strike.

Are people over-reacting? Thoughts?

JG

I would not be too sure of that:

http://www.insidedenver.com/drmn/sta...528879,00.html

excerpt:

Agriculture and meat industry officials, including Colorado's
secretary of agriculture, say the practice is not uncommon. But to
protect consumers, potentially diseased parts of the animal - namely
the brain and spinal tissue - are removed, they say.

The remaining muscle tissue, the officials say, is perfectly safe - a
point echoed by U.S. Agriculture Secretary Ann Veneman at a news
conference Tuesday.

But Bosque said there still are questions about eating the muscle
tissue of a cow infected with mad cow disease, or bovine spongiform
encephalopathy.

He pointed to his own research that showed the infectious agent, known
as a prion, can accumulate in the muscle tissue of mice, and a recent
study showing that people with a disease similar to mad cow also can
accumulate prions in muscle tissue.

In addition, prions are found in the lymph nodes of infected animals,
Bosque said, and lymph nodes can be found throughout the body, easily
mixing into the muscle tissue at a slaughterhouse.




But if you buy totally Grasas Fed beef you avoid the feed lot Mad Cow
syndrom and eat healthy beef also:

But if you eat totally grass fed beef, you get Mad cow free and
healthy beef!


You have plenty to choose from:

http://www.lambandwool.com

http://www.lasatergrasslandsbeef.com


http://www.ervins.com

http://www.eatwild.com

Padraig Breathnach wrote:

"John Gaquin" wrote:

I have read that CJ cannot be contracted by humans via muscle tissue from
BSE contaminated animals, but only through brain tissue or the like.

The "like" being spinal cord.

which they split in North America but not in Great Britain or Europe.

Also
that in the normal course of events, probability of contracting CJ is
similar to that of a double lightening strike.

A fair approximation, I would think. But, as the effects are not so
immediate, precise data have yet to emerge.

Are people over-reacting? Thoughts?



It is an over reaction if nothing happens but if you are in a
life threatening situation it is valid. It is the same as the young
drunk dirver who kills somebody on his way home from a Christmas party.
The parents of the driver think that society is over reacting when they
want to see the young lad go to jail for ever - which he won't. The
parents of the deceased child killed by the drunk driver thinks that the
justice system and the judge are not serving society if the kid only
gets a couple of years of leg monitoring as opposed to a lengthy
sentence.


Yes. Big time. Some of the alternatives people might use also have
their hazards (e.g. poultry full of antibiotics).

One case of BSE in how many tens of millions of cattle? Get a sense of
perspective: wait for a second case.

--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED

Meat is reasonably expensive. Safe meat would be even more expensive.
We don't want to encourage anyone to boycott beef in North America for
two reason: The relatively safe non-beef products will remain
relatively cheap for the rest of us because of modest demands. When
thousands of North Americans test postiive for BSE in 5 or 10 years,
then an economical solution will be found for keep beef safe. And again
we win. So don't change a thing. It takes time, lots of times to find
good solutions to problems, but most of the problems begin with lies.

robert wrote:

"John Gaquin" wrote in message
...
I have read that CJ cannot be contracted by humans via muscle tissue from
BSE contaminated animals, but only through brain tissue or the like. Also
that in the normal course of events, probability of contracting CJ is
similar to that of a double lightening strike.

Are people over-reacting? Thoughts?

JG



Not eating beef for x-mas is overreacting.
It's not a big deal. Besides, you bought your roast long before the Mad Cow
crap came out.
One cow on one farm in one state. Yeah, yeah, I know-who knows what else is
out there? Is this going to make anyone a vegetarian? Doubtful. 'Sides, most
vegetarians I know are fat-too much rice pasta.

"Coas****cher" wrote in message
...
The really SPOOKY thing is that it was a "down" cow, meaning it was
already sick! Evidently our wonderful gov't allows them to slaughter
and feed us sick animals! According to the Portland Oregonian a measure
was just defeated in Congress this past Summer which would have
prevented this. Let's let our nitwits in WDC know we want this stopped!

Down cows are not necessarily animals sick with disease. For example, a cow
can fall and break a leg. While the cow would be down in the sense that it
couldn't walk, it would not have a disease making it sick. The common usage
of "downer" cow is one that is *injured* beyond repair, not a sick animal.
This is not to say that there aren't weak cows who can't walk because they
don't have the strength to get up, but my understanding is that these
animals cannot be sold for human consumption while an animal that fell could
be sold for human consumption.

I think most of the bills about downer cows are from an animal rights
perspective... .