Hi there,

I am considering a culinary arts program in the San Francisco area and
was wondering if anybody had an opinion on which might be a better
choice: California Culinary Academy or the culinary program at City
College of San Francisco?

I guess my main issues are which one is more highly regarded and would
lead to a better/higher paying job upon graduation.

Thanks for any help you may offer!!

__________________________________________________ _____________________________
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On 2003-12-02, Forte Agent wrote:


I guess my main issues are which one is more highly regarded and would
lead to a better/higher paying job upon graduation.

Your main issue should be what it's gonna cost you in the end.

CCA = $$$$$$$
SFCC = $

In the end, you're still gonna hafta go out and pay yer dues. What
you earn in the long run depends on you, not the school you went to.

nb

On 2 Dec 2003 06:32:35 GMT, Forte Agent
multimedia.uncensored-news.com wrote:

Hi there,

I am considering a culinary arts program in the San Francisco area and
was wondering if anybody had an opinion on which might be a better
choice: California Culinary Academy or the culinary program at City
College of San Francisco?


Let's begin with $13 per unit (CCSF) vs. a $40,000 program
(CCA).

Not that I'm against the Culinary Academy, of course... the
president is an old friend from my college daze.


I guess my main issues are which one is more highly regarded and would
lead to a better/higher paying job upon graduation.

Both are highly regarded. Your ability has more to do with
getting and keeping a job. I'm sure they appeal to
different markets, so you need to research which graduates
go where and if you're willing to do the types of jobs
typically offered to their graduates.

Thanks for any help you may offer!!

Believe it or not, there are prestegious places that would
be willing to take on real apprentices (who are dedicated to
learning how to cook) because they don't want to retrain
people who have been through courses like the CCA.

If you are dedicated to cooking, find a master chef to
apprentice under.

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 06:44:35 GMT, sf wrote:

On 2 Dec 2003 06:32:35 GMT, Forte Agent
multimedia.uncensored-news.com wrote:

Hi there,

I am considering a culinary arts program in the San Francisco area and
was wondering if anybody had an opinion on which might be a better
choice: California Culinary Academy or the culinary program at City
College of San Francisco?


Let's begin with $13 per unit (CCSF) vs. a $40,000 program
(CCA).

Not that I'm against the Culinary Academy, of course... the
president is an old friend from my college daze.


I guess my main issues are which one is more highly regarded and would
lead to a better/higher paying job upon graduation.

Both are highly regarded. Your ability has more to do with
getting and keeping a job. I'm sure they appeal to
different markets, so you need to research which graduates
go where and if you're willing to do the types of jobs
typically offered to their graduates.

Thanks for any help you may offer!!

Believe it or not, there are prestegious places that would
be willing to take on real apprentices (who are dedicated to
learning how to cook) because they don't want to retrain
people who have been through courses like the CCA.

If you are dedicated to cooking, find a master chef to
apprentice under.


Thanks for the advice!!! I think I will go with the city college!

__________________________________________________ _____________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
The Worlds Uncensored News Source

In article , Forte Agent
multimedia.uncensored-news.com says...
Hi there,

I am considering a culinary arts program in the San Francisco area and
was wondering if anybody had an opinion on which might be a better
choice: California Culinary Academy or the culinary program at City
College of San Francisco?

I guess my main issues are which one is more highly regarded and would
lead to a better/higher paying job upon graduation.

Thanks for any help you may offer!!

_________________________________________________ ______________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
The Worlds Uncensored News Source


Sorry for the late response on this - been gone for a couple of days.
Anyway, I've looked into both the CCA and the program at CCSF.

CCA is a 15 month program, the last three of which are spent in an
externship. The cost is $45,000.

CCSF is a two year program at a cost of, if I remember correctly, around
$800.

The program at CCSF has an excellent reputation and I've heard that with
a degree in that program you can pretty much get into any door that the
one-year program at CCA would have opened for you.

Unless, as Sheldon likes to say, you've got more dollars than brain
cells, it would seem to me the choice is a pretty clear one.


--
Donna
A pessimist believes all women are bad. An optimist hopes they are.

To reply, remove the SPAM BLOCK

I've been thinking about your message without responding since you first
posted, trying to think of the right answer. I know precious little
about CCSF, but I am near DVC across the Bay. DVC, and Contra Costa
College in Richmond both have serious and well run HRM programs, taught,
generally by highly credentialed people. We have taken classes taught by
Denis Kelley, author of at least four cookbooks, and I personally knew
the late Ken Wolfe from CC college, author of the Professional Chef. I
think if you finish either of these programs, and the programs from
CCSF, you won't have a problem getting a sous chef position anywhere you
want with your chosen exec. chef, and you can rise to the top pretty
much the same way as with the CCCA. You probably will also have a better
practical background.
Best of Luck,
Kent

Forte Agent wrote:

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 06:44:35 GMT, sf wrote:

On 2 Dec 2003 06:32:35 GMT, Forte Agent
multimedia.uncensored-news.com wrote:

Hi there,

I am considering a culinary arts program in the San Francisco area and
was wondering if anybody had an opinion on which might be a better
choice: California Culinary Academy or the culinary program at City
College of San Francisco?


Let's begin with $13 per unit (CCSF) vs. a $40,000 program
(CCA).

Not that I'm against the Culinary Academy, of course... the
president is an old friend from my college daze.


I guess my main issues are which one is more highly regarded and would
lead to a better/higher paying job upon graduation.

Both are highly regarded. Your ability has more to do with
getting and keeping a job. I'm sure they appeal to
different markets, so you need to research which graduates
go where and if you're willing to do the types of jobs
typically offered to their graduates.

Thanks for any help you may offer!!

Believe it or not, there are prestegious places that would
be willing to take on real apprentices (who are dedicated to
learning how to cook) because they don't want to retrain
people who have been through courses like the CCA.

If you are dedicated to cooking, find a master chef to
apprentice under.


Thanks for the advice!!! I think I will go with the city college!

__________________________________________________ _____________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
The Worlds Uncensored News Source

Donna Rose wrote in message thlink.net...
In article , Forte Agent
multimedia.uncensored-news.com says...
Hi there,

I am considering a culinary arts program in the San Francisco area and
was wondering if anybody had an opinion on which might be a better
choice: California Culinary Academy or the culinary program at City
College of San Francisco?

I guess my main issues are which one is more highly regarded and would
lead to a better/higher paying job upon graduation.

Thanks for any help you may offer!!

_________________________________________________ ______________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
The Worlds Uncensored News Source

CCA is a 15 month program, the last three of which are spent in an
externship. The cost is $45,000.

CCSF is a two year program at a cost of, if I remember correctly, around
$800.

The program at CCSF has an excellent reputation and I've heard that with
a degree in that program you can pretty much get into any door that the
one-year program at CCA would have opened for you.


I was an admissions officer at the Cal. Culinary Academy for 3 years
in the mid-90s. I know the program intimately (granted there have been
changes since then). I agree with all the other posts above, and want
to add that the cost of the program is largely handled with loans. You
must begin repaying those loans on graduation. You will not qualify
for any higher wage based on the CCA degree than the City College
degree. They are the same Associate of Occupational Studies degree.
Furthermore, as pointed out above, employers aren't actually that
impressed with any fancy culinary school degree in of itself. You must
still prove that you have the skill and the work ethic (and the
culinary knowledge)

My advice, which I've been giving for 7 years now, is to go to the
cheaper program, spare yourself the debt, and splurge on culinary
exploration in our fabulous SF Bay area. At CCA they used to have a
class devoted to tasting, and they'd wheel out the oysters once per
term. I always made sure I knew what day that was, too, 'cause the
chef would give me leftovers! Anyway - search out great food here,
read the magazines and newspapers - the Chronicle food section is not
a bad place to start - and spend some money and time tasting. You
couldn't possibly spend $45,000 on oyster tasting.

When you fill out the loan application, find the section that tells
you what your monthly payments will be after graduating. And remember,
loans won't cover the full $45k. You WILL have to cough up large
chunks of tuition up front.

As far as rubbing shoulders with celebrity guests, or working with
good professional chefs - you can get internships through City
College. You can also get them on your own. At CCA you will pay a
semester's tuition for the privilege of looking at their lists and
scrounging up the position for yourself. THey give you nothing more
than a list of chefs. You can get that anywhere. Whatever you do, at
CCA you will owe them the tuition even though you spend that term
working for someone else for free.

Look into assisting chefs at Sur La Table or other similar foodie
workshop programs. When I went to a Peter Reinhardt workshop their he
had several unpaid volunteer assistants who worked under his direction
while learning everything he taught to the paying guests (or more).

Food festivals like the Garlic or Mustard festivals (Gilroy and Napa,
respectively) are also good places to make contact with chefs and get
experience assisting. And of course if you have the right attitude
and make yourself useful you'll be first in line for an internship or
real job.

Another benefit of City College, little known - some old food editor
from the Chronicle died and left them the largest culinary library
west of the Rockies.

In sum, if I didn't have a large trust fund I would go to City
College. (There's also City College of Santa Barbara, if you're able
to move). The money you save could buy you a house ten years after
graduation.

I am certain, by the way, that the culinary education at CCA is still
perfectly fine. I am just not certain it's worth $45,000 to someone
who doesn't have the money. I have seen many students lose lots of
money and drop out half way through because the tuition and living
expenses are unmanageable. And the admissions reps are NOT going to
level with you about this issue, unless things have changed a great
deal since my day. They do have a pitch to make it sound like it's all
no problem, you should do it, have some faith, etc. etc.

Unless, as Sheldon likes to say, you've got more dollars than brain
cells, it would seem to me the choice is a pretty clear one.

I won't go that far. If you have a fat college fund and you don't mind
spending it on CCA, then god bless you. There really are great chefs
there and you get to try your hand at fabulous culinary tricks,
eventually (spinning sugar, making galantines and ice sculptures,
etc.)


Good luck!

Leila

You folks are great!!!!!! Thanks for all the great advice!! See you at
City College!



On 5 Dec 2003 20:31:19 -0800, (Leila A.) wrote:

Donna Rose wrote in message thlink.net...
In article , Forte Agent
multimedia.uncensored-news.com says...
Hi there,

I am considering a culinary arts program in the San Francisco area and
was wondering if anybody had an opinion on which might be a better
choice: California Culinary Academy or the culinary program at City
College of San Francisco?

I guess my main issues are which one is more highly regarded and would
lead to a better/higher paying job upon graduation.

Thanks for any help you may offer!!

_________________________________________________ ______________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
The Worlds Uncensored News Source

CCA is a 15 month program, the last three of which are spent in an
externship. The cost is $45,000.

CCSF is a two year program at a cost of, if I remember correctly, around
$800.

The program at CCSF has an excellent reputation and I've heard that with
a degree in that program you can pretty much get into any door that the
one-year program at CCA would have opened for you.


I was an admissions officer at the Cal. Culinary Academy for 3 years
in the mid-90s. I know the program intimately (granted there have been
changes since then). I agree with all the other posts above, and want
to add that the cost of the program is largely handled with loans. You
must begin repaying those loans on graduation. You will not qualify
for any higher wage based on the CCA degree than the City College
degree. They are the same Associate of Occupational Studies degree.
Furthermore, as pointed out above, employers aren't actually that
impressed with any fancy culinary school degree in of itself. You must
still prove that you have the skill and the work ethic (and the
culinary knowledge)

My advice, which I've been giving for 7 years now, is to go to the
cheaper program, spare yourself the debt, and splurge on culinary
exploration in our fabulous SF Bay area. At CCA they used to have a
class devoted to tasting, and they'd wheel out the oysters once per
term. I always made sure I knew what day that was, too, 'cause the
chef would give me leftovers! Anyway - search out great food here,
read the magazines and newspapers - the Chronicle food section is not
a bad place to start - and spend some money and time tasting. You
couldn't possibly spend $45,000 on oyster tasting.

When you fill out the loan application, find the section that tells
you what your monthly payments will be after graduating. And remember,
loans won't cover the full $45k. You WILL have to cough up large
chunks of tuition up front.

As far as rubbing shoulders with celebrity guests, or working with
good professional chefs - you can get internships through City
College. You can also get them on your own. At CCA you will pay a
semester's tuition for the privilege of looking at their lists and
scrounging up the position for yourself. THey give you nothing more
than a list of chefs. You can get that anywhere. Whatever you do, at
CCA you will owe them the tuition even though you spend that term
working for someone else for free.

Look into assisting chefs at Sur La Table or other similar foodie
workshop programs. When I went to a Peter Reinhardt workshop their he
had several unpaid volunteer assistants who worked under his direction
while learning everything he taught to the paying guests (or more).

Food festivals like the Garlic or Mustard festivals (Gilroy and Napa,
respectively) are also good places to make contact with chefs and get
experience assisting. And of course if you have the right attitude
and make yourself useful you'll be first in line for an internship or
real job.

Another benefit of City College, little known - some old food editor
from the Chronicle died and left them the largest culinary library
west of the Rockies.

In sum, if I didn't have a large trust fund I would go to City
College. (There's also City College of Santa Barbara, if you're able
to move). The money you save could buy you a house ten years after
graduation.

I am certain, by the way, that the culinary education at CCA is still
perfectly fine. I am just not certain it's worth $45,000 to someone
who doesn't have the money. I have seen many students lose lots of
money and drop out half way through because the tuition and living
expenses are unmanageable. And the admissions reps are NOT going to
level with you about this issue, unless things have changed a great
deal since my day. They do have a pitch to make it sound like it's all
no problem, you should do it, have some faith, etc. etc.

Unless, as Sheldon likes to say, you've got more dollars than brain
cells, it would seem to me the choice is a pretty clear one.

I won't go that far. If you have a fat college fund and you don't mind
spending it on CCA, then god bless you. There really are great chefs
there and you get to try your hand at fabulous culinary tricks,
eventually (spinning sugar, making galantines and ice sculptures,
etc.)


Good luck!

Leila


__________________________________________________ _____________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
The Worlds Uncensored News Source