Tigsnona wrote:

I am totally at a loss

You should have ended this sentence here. Would have been more truthful.

at this post and the responses.

French food is not about snails and frogs legs. It is about cuisine
design - and how to cook fresh ingredients in an interesting and tasty
manner.

This "definition" demonstrates, yet again, how little you know about
cooking in general and cuisine in particular. French food is available
raw food materials prepared in such ways as to please the French
sensibility. Just like food everywhere on earth.

How many of the respondents here have actually visited
France and eaten at an even average restaurant?

Irrelevant. Although your silly tale here rather unfortunately shows
you haven't eaten anywhere *but* at rather ordinary restaurants.

Let me tell you that for a hell of a lot less than most of you pay in
the USA for a meal at an average place, you will enjoy a top class
three or four course meal in France

So here you answer your own question. Obviously, you wouldn't know a
good restaurant if you saw one - or you're simply lying to take
another gratuitous shot at the US. Probably both.

Food isn't and has never been cheaper in France than the US. It is an
unfortunate fact that the nature of commercial French kitchens and
European agriculture force it to cost more to operate than American
ones can. That's not an index of quality, only how each prefers to set
up and operate and the market and cultural conditions that surround it.

that could consist of a delicious
entree (and entree is what you people call a starter for one thing),

LOLOLOL Starter is what we "people" call an "appetizer." Entree is
never a starter except in your ignorant ramblings. Americans don't
routinely use the expression "starter."

You say you operated a restaurant with menus? And it said entree when
it was a starter? Was the spelling any better than the dismal lack of
knowledge of the tech talk of culinaria? "Meet and potatoe?"

followed by a main meal (perhaps a steak accompanied by vegetables),

Ah. This would be the entree and garnishes to a French chef. "Main
meal" sounds sorta country-bumpkin as a description. Was your
restaurant, like, in the far outback like in Crocodile Dundee with
sweaty guys with guns sitting around and making bodily noises? Oh,
wait. You're in New Zealand. With sweaty guys who have little bits of
wool on the fronts of their pants? Tall boots? Relatives?

followed by some sort of cheese, followed by a well presented dessert.

I note no soup or salad course. Looks like country-style bistro fare.
Nothing wrong with that, of course, but bistros are home-cooking
operations, hardly the place to get a "top class three or four course
meal in France." It's mama's cooking.

Shitwit Tigsnona seems to think that escargot is some sort of exotic,
expensive food item in the US. You can buy the meats and shells in
supermarkets neatly packaged together. Restaurants buy huge cans of
them or buy the snails frozen. Shells come separately. Restaurateurs
put a dab of garlic butter in the shell, push in a snail and seal the
opening with another dab of butter. On order, they pop it onto a snail
plate and put under a broiler or salamander until hot. They even nuke
well.

I wonder what Tigsnona served in that restaurant that was so
successful. Obviously not escargot. Maybe things like mutton a la
mutton (Gotta sound hoity-toity, you know, so everyone knows it "top
class."). Potatoes with real butter and actual parsley. Beans with
water and salt.

I shall give you an example of a full menu of the type described
above, which I enjoyed in a provincial town in the Lot region in the
past summer:

"Provincial town." That's where I always go for "top class." There's
nothing but "provincial town" in the Lot. Except for the pastures and
mountainsides.

First course (entree) was : escargots done with garlic butter. There
were 8 on the plate - and they were absolutely delicious.

In the US, they're usually served in multiples of 6, with the same
cliched garlic butter. I used to put a few drops of Pernod in the ones
at my restaurant and the country clubs I ran. The last time I served
them was in 2001 and we charged $6.95 a dozen. We also did them
individually in puff pastry for $9.95 a dozen. Labor cost, you know.
Sold like, well, escargots. People would come in and order a couple
dozen as a meal. Chunks of French bread to sop up the salty, garlicky
butter. a couple glasses of a crisp white and all's well with the world.

Second course (main course) was: small fillet mignon, served with a
burgundy-reduced sauce, and accompanied by boiled new potatoes
garnished with butter and parsley, and steamed asparagus. Not a large
meal, but perfectly presented and cooked.

Meat and potatoes. Small meat, at that. A small filet, buttered
potatoes and steamed asparagus is "top class" eating in France? That's
"Mel's Diner" food anywhere.

Third course was: fresh soft brie cheese accompanied by grapes.

Fresh brie? You don't want fresh brie. You want it ripened and that
takes time. Soft only means room temperature. What a connoisseur
Tigsnona is. And so knowledgeable.

Last course was: fresh strawberries marinated in Cassis, with
Chantilly Creme and vanilla wafers.

Strawberries *dampened* with cassis (Long-term marinating of
strawberries in booze wilts them. More likely, the cassis was trickled
over the berries at service.) and topped with whipped cream, cookies
on the side is a real dazzler and obviously "top class." Putting
berries in booze softens them, so the correct term is "macerate."

Bwahahahaha

Coffee followed (extra).

If this is your idea of "top class" I suspect you'd faint dead away at
a real "top class" restaurant in an urban area. Hell, if this is
your idea of elegant, a rather ordinary bistro in Paris would have you
bleeding from the eyes and ears. These backwater places (and the Lot
region is the outback of France) feature stout peasant cooking that in
no way can be considered anything else. Nothing wrong with it, but to
characterize it any other way is to utterly misunderstand the French
culinary sensibility. And to be woefully ignorant of real "top class"
cooking.

This menu is typical of a kitchen with a staff of one. Simple dishes
that can be done "a la minute" or can be held for a while, as the
cheese and dessert courses.

I note there's not a glass of wine in evidence, no mention of bread,
no discussion of sauces beyond a sketch of reduced wine.

The bill: in US$:35 for two people. Wouldn't break the bank would
it?

You only lie here when your fingers move. Here's a site that talks
about restaurants in that area and offers prices:
http://tinyurl.com/xiwz

Another that gets excited about $25 per person as though it's a
terrific bargain.
http://www.travellady.com/Issues/Issue68/68P-french.htm

With rental prices like these, I'm sure there's cheap food everywhere.
snerk http://www.le-guide.com/maisonderey/

So, your honor, I believe we've impeached the credibility of the
witness and established that Tigsnona has several flaws, all in clear
evidence. First, not the remotest understanding of what "top class"
really is. Second, a propensity to overstate and understate rather
than to give honest, balanced information. Third, a rather crippling
prejudice against the US much like some rabid sports fan who isn't so
much for any team as merely against one.

No further questions. The prosecution rests.

Pastorio

Gerald I. evenden wrote:

Aside from that, if you want to go to the home of European cooking
try Italian. The Italians have forgotten more than the French
ever learned from them. The Italians were preparing civilized
cuisine while the French were still huddled in caves gnawing on
bones.

Much as it grieves me to remove some luster from Italy, there is a
smerch of truth to the notion that Italians had a rather more advanced
culinary tradition that did France, it recent centuries, the French
have codified and defined culinaria more deeply and more widely than
any other culture. Created more technical terms to deal with more
techniques and results than anyone else.

The various Italian cuisines have a very different emphasis than the
French approach. Italians don't generally go for long-cooked foods
preferring faster, fresher dishes. A different style and a different
premise.

Pastorio

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 22:49:38 +1300, Tigsnona
wrote:

I am totally at a loss at this post and the responses.

French food is not about snails and frogs legs. It is about cuisine
design - and how to cook fresh ingredients in an interesting and tasty
manner. How many of the respondents here have actually visited
France and eaten at an even average restaurant?

I fell for the troll as well. If it was about anything, it was about
trying unfamiliar foods, not about France. Don't worry about it.

FWIW, I have had extraordinary meals in France, but I have also had
ordinary ones.





Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

"That idiot Leibniz, who wants to teach me about the infinitesimally small! Has he therefore forgotten that I am the wife of Frederick I? How can he imagine that I am unacquainted with my own husband?"

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 10:26:56 -0500, Bob Pastorio
wrote:

Tigsnona wrote:

I am totally at a loss

You should have ended this sentence here. Would have been more truthful.

at this post and the responses.

French food is not about snails and frogs legs. It is about cuisine
design - and how to cook fresh ingredients in an interesting and tasty
manner.

This "definition" demonstrates, yet again, how little you know about
cooking in general and cuisine in particular. French food is available
raw food materials prepared in such ways as to please the French
sensibility. Just like food everywhere on earth.

I have not snipped anything you wrote, but you are drawing a very long
bow if you interpret my remark above as indicating ignorance about
cooking and cuisine.

How many of the respondents here have actually visited
France and eaten at an even average restaurant?

Irrelevant. Although your silly tale here rather unfortunately shows
you haven't eaten anywhere *but* at rather ordinary restaurants.

This sort of comment is absolutely ridiculous. The "average" tourist
usually frequents any number and styles of restaurants - from haute
cuisine to the neighbourhood bistro. Its the same the world over
surely.

Let me tell you that for a hell of a lot less than most of you pay in
the USA for a meal at an average place, you will enjoy a top class
three or four course meal in France

So here you answer your own question. Obviously, you wouldn't know a
good restaurant if you saw one - or you're simply lying to take
another gratuitous shot at the US. Probably both.

On this latest trip I went through the USA to Europe and returned via
the USA - with reasonably lengthy visits both ways. I ate at some
very very fine country club restaurants, and a small but very nice
cottage-type restaurant in the Southern Californian high desert region
(quite a tourist spot, but early in the season so reasonably quiet).
I simply adore Californian salads (and they tend to be kind on the
waistline as well) - so ate quite a number of them during my time
there.

In Chicago I ate lunch at the restaurant at Marshal Fields (I just
forget the name). My hosts had reserved a table. The ambience, menu,
food and service was extremely good.

In Washington DC I was taken to a very nice restaurant in the
Smithsonian, where the menu was good, and the service the same. It
was not at the top end pricewise by any means.

I ate lunch one day at a basic lunch-type place in DC because time was
a factor. So these last experiences in the USA were reasonably
wide-ranging I would have thought.

Food isn't and has never been cheaper in France than the US. It is an
unfortunate fact that the nature of commercial French kitchens and
European agriculture force it to cost more to operate than American
ones can. That's not an index of quality, only how each prefers to set
up and operate and the market and cultural conditions that surround it.

I know little about subsidies except that the French farmers are
accused of living off them. However, for much the same type of
dishes that were on the menus of restaurants I ate at in the US and in
France, the cost of the meals seemed to me to be less - or at any rate
not much more expensive for good quality. The wine in France was
much cheaper in restaurants (and cafe/bars) than in the US, but this
may be a local tax thing.

To be fair, alcohol of most types seems to be quite expensive in the
USA - and even quite widely-available average Californian wine on
shelves in the supermarkets there seemed to me to be quite highly
priced. I am not criticizing here, simply wondering if the tax on
alcohol in the USA is high (it is very high in Scandinavian countries
and in the UK) but perhaps France is a "special case" LOL.


that could consist of a delicious
entree (and entree is what you people call a starter for one thing),

LOLOLOL Starter is what we "people" call an "appetizer." Entree is
never a starter except in your ignorant ramblings. Americans don't
routinely use the expression "starter."

True true, it is usually appetizer - and that is the more common term
here in New Zealand as well. Some places give gimmicky titles to the
menu divisions and one of my recipe books from Australia has a section
devoted to "starters" which are really appetizers. If a minor slip
like this really riles you that much - well ..... what can I say?

As to entrees. The menu items under the heading entrees are quite
different everywhere I have been except in the USA. There, entrees
are the main courses. Most entrees elsewhere are dishes (either hot,
warm or cold) that are marginally larger than an appetizer, and about
half the size (give or take a bit) of the main course. Sometimes, an
entree item on a menu will specify that there is an option for the
dish to comprise a main course. But this is merely detail.

You say you operated a restaurant with menus? And it said entree when
it was a starter? Was the spelling any better than the dismal lack of
knowledge of the tech talk of culinaria? "Meet and potatoe?"

One of the best restaurants in the city in which I live has a very
descriptive website. You may judge how culinarily out of touch, or
how sophisticated we are as diners by having a look:
http://www.menus.co.nz/vinnies/index.html?RID=85
I have eaten here on a number of occasions (usually when I am hosting
Americans) and while it is at the top end, there are equally about a
dozen like it in the city.

followed by a main meal (perhaps a steak accompanied by vegetables),

Ah. This would be the entree and garnishes to a French chef. "Main
meal" sounds sorta country-bumpkin as a description. Was your
restaurant, like, in the far outback like in Crocodile Dundee with
sweaty guys with guns sitting around and making bodily noises? Oh,
wait. You're in New Zealand. With sweaty guys who have little bits of
wool on the fronts of their pants? Tall boots? Relatives?

Have you been overdosing on The Lord of the Rings or something else
(happy backy perhaps)? Sweaty guys who have little bits of wool on
the fronts of their pants (or kilts) are local to Scotland. Bone up
on some geography man - you're getting tedious. (A little boy in San
Diego asked me how many hobbits I knew, when he learned I was from New
Zealand. Not a mention about tall boots or sweaty guys or even sheep!
The marvels of the movie industry - these kids know where New Zealand
is not (and that in itself is a miracle!) but imagine we live in
Middle Earth and are grown-up hobbits! Spare me!

Main course is how the principal section of the meal is generally
described. In standard French restaurants, it can be either meat or
fish.

A standard restaurant is, by my definition (and only given for the
sake of clarity since you pin-prickabout every small remark that you
do not immediately identify with) one that is table-service, with
tablecloths, cloth napkins, good quality cutlery, glasses and
tableware, no less than one or two waitpersons to each 3 tables.

Menus in France (and in my experience, England, Australia and locally)
generally place the soups, salads and pasta offerings in the entree
section, and not the main course section. Sometimes the menu is split
even further, with soup in its own sectioon. If it is summer, the
salads may be under their own heading also.

However, unlike a country club restaurant where I was a guest the
waitperson would not present a salad to a person who had not
specifically ordered one (as happened to me) and would certainly not
query the absence of such an order (which followed).

I frequently choose not to eat a salad (but not in California!!!) but
confine myself to a small warm or cold appetizer or entree, followed
by a main course of either fish or meat, together with whatever
seasonal vegetables are offered. I may or may not order a dessert,
but usually ask for cheese if it is on the menu.

followed by some sort of cheese, followed by a well presented dessert.

I note no soup or salad course. Looks like country-style bistro fare.

There was both soup and salad on the menu. I chose not to order
either, having decided on the escargots, followed by the fillet.
This was my choice. The restaurant was NOT a country-style bistro -
but a good French middle-of-the-road table-service restaurant with a
respectable wine list and attentive service.

Nothing wrong with that, of course, but bistros are home-cooking
operations, hardly the place to get a "top class three or four course
meal in France." It's mama's cooking.

Well if it was it was very very good!

Shitwit Tigsnona seems to think that escargot is some sort of exotic,
expensive food item in the US. You can buy the meats and shells in
supermarkets neatly packaged together. Restaurants buy huge cans of
them or buy the snails frozen. Shells come separately. Restaurateurs
put a dab of garlic butter in the shell, push in a snail and seal the
opening with another dab of butter. On order, they pop it onto a snail
plate and put under a broiler or salamander until hot. They even nuke
well.

I happen to like snails. I dont like frogs legs. I also like
asparagus - and I like spinach also and brussels sprouts. I have
never ever eaten pumpkin! The smell's enough.

The common treatment of non-exotic snails you describe occurs
elsewhere, and not just in the US you know. You seem to be as
knowledgeable about what goes on in restaurant kitchens outside the
USA as you are of the people who inhabit countries outside the USA!

I wonder what Tigsnona served in that restaurant that was so
successful. Obviously not escargot. Maybe things like mutton a la
mutton (Gotta sound hoity-toity, you know, so everyone knows it "top
class."). Potatoes with real butter and actual parsley. Beans with
water and salt.

Like many Americans, who see New Zealand as one huge farm over-run
with sheep, the cooking of mutton immediately springs to mind. Except
for those who knew we won and held the America's Cup for 8 years, and
those who go to the cinema and have seen LOTR. the latter, as I have
explained are amazed. when they actually meet a New Zealander, how
tall they are and dressed the same as all the o ther folks.

I shall give you an example of a full menu of the type described
above, which I enjoyed in a provincial town in the Lot region in the
past summer:

"Provincial town." That's where I always go for "top class." There's
nothing but "provincial town" in the Lot. Except for the pastures and
mountainsides.

And there was nothing that I saw in West Virginia that would ever get
me back there - not even the sign of anything remotely resembling
provincial - more hicksville. Oh yes, and they spoke funny as well!

First course (entree) was : escargots done with garlic butter. There
were 8 on the plate - and they were absolutely delicious.

In the US, they're usually served in multiples of 6, with the same
cliched garlic butter. I used to put a few drops of Pernod in the ones
at my restaurant and the country clubs I ran.

I like the idea of the Pernod.

The last time I served
them was in 2001 and we charged $6.95 a dozen. We also did them
individually in puff pastry for $9.95 a dozen. Labor cost, you know.
Sold like, well, escargots. People would come in and order a couple
dozen as a meal. Chunks of French bread to sop up the salty, garlicky
butter. a couple glasses of a crisp white and all's well with the world.

I really DO like snails, but I couldn't go a meal of them - nor even a
few in puff pastry. But there you go: to each his own taste!

Second course (main course) was: small fillet mignon, served with a
burgundy-reduced sauce, and accompanied by boiled new potatoes
garnished with butter and parsley, and steamed asparagus. Not a large
meal, but perfectly presented and cooked.

Meat and potatoes. Small meat, at that.

Yes quite small by your standards I suppose. After being thoroughly
put off by the enormous steaks presented to me in what are (in your
terms) good American restaurants, I learned to ask for steak by weight
- and at least half the weight of the menu offerings I might add.

A small 200 gram (6-7 ounces?) fillet mignon, perfectly cooked, and
served with a wine-reduced sauce, 3-4 very small new potatoes (does
Jersey Bennie ring a bell with you? - they are tiny waxy new potatoes
that are not in season for long) and about 8 asparagus spears with a
smear of hollandaise sauce. This filled me up. Do you think the
average American would still have been hungry?

A small filet, buttered
potatoes and steamed asparagus is "top class" eating in France? That's
"Mel's Diner" food anywhere.

That really is not fair. Mel's Diner type food is awful! I once
made the mistake of going to a place called Outback. Never again!

Third course was: fresh soft brie cheese accompanied by grapes.

Fresh brie? You don't want fresh brie. You want it ripened and that
takes time. Soft only means room temperature. What a connoisseur
Tigsnona is. And so knowledgeable.

There is ripened brie and soft fresh brie. I chose the fresh because
I prefer the flavour and texture. So much you know!

Last course was: fresh strawberries marinated in Cassis, with
Chantilly Creme and vanilla wafers.

Strawberries *dampened* with cassis (Long-term marinating of
strawberries in booze wilts them. More likely, the cassis was trickled
over the berries at service.) and topped with whipped cream, cookies
on the side is a real dazzler and obviously "top class." Putting
berries in booze softens them, so the correct term is "macerate."

Yes, well macerated then. Picky-picky again. No one in their right
mind soaks berries in booze. The whipped cream was done with egg
white and vanilla and was not all that rich. And cookies? Oh no,
very thin, delicate, home-made wafers. Don't you know what they are?

Coffee followed (extra).

If this is your idea of "top class" I suspect you'd faint dead away at
a real "top class" restaurant in an urban area. Hell, if this is
your idea of elegant, a rather ordinary bistro in Paris would have you
bleeding from the eyes and ears. These backwater places (and the Lot
region is the outback of France) feature stout peasant cooking that in
no way can be considered anything else. Nothing wrong with it, but to
characterize it any other way is to utterly misunderstand the French
culinary sensibility. And to be woefully ignorant of real "top class"
cooking.

This menu is typical of a kitchen with a staff of one. Simple dishes
that can be done "a la minute" or can be held for a while, as the
cheese and dessert courses.

I never claimed that the meal was haute cuisine. I never claimed the
restaurant was other than good provincial. But if the meal was
cooked by the sole kitchen chef (presumably with no help) and the
dining room service was provided by members of the family, so what?
The meal was beautifully cooked and presented, the wine was excellent,
and the service prompt and discreet.

I didn't think I needed to explain all the other items on the menu
from which I had made my modest selection. I simply took it that an
expert such as yourself would have automatically known that most
French restaurants offer soups and salads. It goes without saying.

I note there's not a glass of wine in evidence, no mention of bread,
no discussion of sauces beyond a sketch of reduced wine.

There was bread in a basket on the table. I didn't eat any because I
was having potatoes - and I didn't feel like bread. I have now
explained about the wine, but why I should do so is beyond me.

I have encountered any number of Americans who are what you might call
"well-heeled" who know absolutely nothing whatsoever about wine of any
sort. Often I find when we are entertaining them, they prefer a
whisky or gin with their dinner. When entertaining 2 American
couples these days, I only ever prepare two bottles of wine - and
often one is enough, and I am the only one to have a glass of wine!

The bill: in US$:35 for two people. Wouldn't break the bank would
it?

You only lie here when your fingers move. Here's a site that talks
about restaurants in that area and offers prices:
http://tinyurl.com/xiwz

Another that gets excited about $25 per person as though it's a
terrific bargain.
http://www.travellady.com/Issues/Issue68/68P-french.htm

With rental prices like these, I'm sure there's cheap food everywhere.
snerk http://www.le-guide.com/maisonderey/

I was converting through two currencies and the US dollar was
fluctuating all over the place all during the trip, so I could have
made an honest mistake. I paid cash so have no records to look back
through.

So, your honor, I believe we've impeached the credibility of the
witness and established that Tigsnona has several flaws, all in clear
evidence. First, not the remotest understanding of what "top class"
really is.

You are asking that your objective view of the term "top class" be
interpreted by someone who regarded the experience as subjective.
Top class to some would be very mediocre to others - and you damn well
know that. The meal was not haute cuisine. It was, in my opinion,
a top class meal of its type and in pleasant surroundings, and served
by pleasant people, none of whom had any English - but since I can
speak French fluently this didn't present a problem.

Second, a propensity to overstate and understate rather
than to give honest, balanced information. Third, a rather crippling
prejudice against the US much like some rabid sports fan who isn't so
much for any team as merely against one.

A crippling prejudice? You mean like the bulk of the Iraqis right
now? Or all those thousands who demonstrated against President Bush's
recent (pre-election propaganda) visit to England. Get it right man.
In my circle of friends I am about the only one who attempts to
minimise the criticism.

No further questions. The prosecution rests.

Goodo, I shall now go into my little hobbit house in Middle Earth and
reflect!

Pastorio

Tigsnona

If you can keep your head when those around you
are losing theirs, you probably haven't understood
the situation.

Bob Pastorio wrote:

Gerald I. evenden wrote:

Aside from that, if you want to go to the home of European cooking
try Italian. The Italians have forgotten more than the French
ever learned from them. The Italians were preparing civilized
cuisine while the French were still huddled in caves gnawing on
bones.


Much as it grieves me to remove some luster from Italy, there is a
smerch of truth to the notion that Italians had a rather more advanced
culinary tradition that did France, it recent centuries, the French have
codified and defined culinaria more deeply and more widely than any
other culture. Created more technical terms to deal with more techniques
and results than anyone else.

By merely looking at French words, you will immediately know that the
French proscribe words, while other nations describe them. Truly
indicative of a country that trys to limit the influence of other
countries and culture. Not that I am complaining about French cuisine.

--
Alan

"If you reject the food, ignore the customs, fear the religion, and
avoid the people, you might better stay home."
--James Michener

Rodney Myrvaagnes wrote:

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 22:49:38 +1300, Tigsnona
wrote:


I am totally at a loss at this post and the responses.

French food is not about snails and frogs legs. It is about cuisine
design - and how to cook fresh ingredients in an interesting and tasty
manner. How many of the respondents here have actually visited
France and eaten at an even average restaurant?


I fell for the troll as well. If it was about anything, it was about
trying unfamiliar foods, not about France. Don't worry about it.

FWIW, I have had extraordinary meals in France, but I have also had
ordinary ones.

Rodney Myrvaagnes

Which is probably an apt statement of all cuisines.

--
Alan

"If you reject the food, ignore the customs, fear the religion, and
avoid the people, you might better stay home."
--James Michener

In article , Tigsnona
wrote:




not much more expensive for good quality. The wine in France was
much cheaper in restaurants (and cafe/bars) than in the US, but this
may be a local tax thing.

To be fair, alcohol of most types seems to be quite expensive in the
USA - and even quite widely-available average Californian wine on
shelves in the supermarkets there seemed to me to be quite highly
priced. I am not criticizing here, simply wondering if the tax on
alcohol in the USA is high (it is very high in Scandinavian countries
and in the UK) but perhaps France is a "special case" LOL.

I guess you didn't drink any two buck Chuck! I am amazed at what has
happened to wine prices in the US. In my youth, I would sometimes
purchase a gallon of wine for a dollar. Decent quality fifths of wine
were under two dollars.

I don't believe the tax on wine is that great. The tax on distilled
spirits is very high.


explained are amazed. when they actually meet a New Zealander, how
tall they are and dressed the same as all the o ther folks.

Except they talk funny, of course.


:-)

--
Dan Abel
Sonoma State University
AIS

(Deliberate top post)

Just wanted to say that this really is yummy! I followed the golden
rule of RFC and used all fresh ingredients, and this was my first time
using hand-grated parmesan (I used to buy the pre-grated junk); what
a lovely smell! I wound up needing more butter and garlic because I
had more than 2.5 pounds of chicken; this recipe is definitely a
keeper...

Hark! I heard (j.j.) say:

snip

ObFood: I found this recipe while wandering the web yesterday and am
going to try it tonight:

Oven Fried Chicken Parmesan

Prep. time: 20 minutes
Cooking time: 70
Serves: 4

1 garlic clove
1/4 pound butter, melted
1 cup soft white bread crumbs
1/3 cup finely grated Parmesan cheese
2 tablespoons minced parsley
1 teaspoon salt
1/8 teaspoon Pepper
2 1/2 pounds Chicken, cut up into pieces

Preheat oven to 350 degrees. Crush the garlic clove and combine with
2/3 cup melted butter in a shallow baking dish. In another dish combine
the bread crumbs, Parmesan cheese, parsley, salt and pepper. First dip
the chicken into the butter and then coat it in the bread crumb mixture.

Arrange the chicken 1 layer deep in a greased large, shallow baking pan
and drizzle evenly with remaining melted butter. Bake uncovered, 1 to 1
1/4 hours until fork tender and browned.

I'm going to replace the soft bread crumbs with panko, I'll let you
guys know how it turns out...





--
j.j. ~ mom, gamer, novice cook ~
...fish heads, fish heads, eat them up, yum!

Tigsnona wrote:


Bob Pastorio wrote:

Tigsnona wrote:

The bill: in US$:35 for two people. Wouldn't break the bank would
it?

You only lie here when your fingers move. Here's a site that talks
about restaurants in that area and offers prices:
http://tinyurl.com/xiwz

Another that gets excited about $25 per person as though it's a
terrific bargain.
http://www.travellady.com/Issues/Issue68/68P-french.htm

With rental prices like these, I'm sure there's cheap food everywhere.
snerk http://www.le-guide.com/maisonderey/

I was converting through two currencies and the US dollar was
fluctuating all over the place all during the trip, so I could have
made an honest mistake. I paid cash so have no records to look back
through.

Well, I for one, am completely surprised that you can't prove your
assertions. So atypical.

So, your honor, I believe we've impeached the credibility of the
witness and established that Tigsnona has several flaws, all in clear
evidence. First, not the remotest understanding of what "top class"
really is.


You are asking that your objective view of the term "top class" be
interpreted by someone who regarded the experience as subjective.
Top class to some would be very mediocre to others - and you damn well
know that. The meal was not haute cuisine. It was, in my opinion,
a top class meal of its type and in pleasant surroundings, and served
by pleasant people, none of whom had any English - but since I can
speak French fluently this didn't present a problem.

A country restaurant run by a single cook and his family. "Top class,"
you say?

Second, a propensity to overstate and understate rather
than to give honest, balanced information. Third, a rather crippling
prejudice against the US much like some rabid sports fan who isn't so
much for any team as merely against one.

A crippling prejudice? You mean like the bulk of the Iraqis right
now? Or all those thousands who demonstrated against President Bush's
recent (pre-election propaganda) visit to England.

Not about anybody but you, darling. Your prejudice. And your
lamentably superficial grasp of virtually everything.

Get it right man.
In my circle of friends I am about the only one who attempts to
minimise the criticism.

Then your friends are even more dense than you. Shocked, I tell you.
Absolutely shocked. Oh, wait. They'd have to be to put up with you.

Never mind.

Pastorio

In article ,
Steve YATES wrote:
Have been in France for 10+ years and still don't eat Snails ( too
rubbery )

Hmm. I had an escargot appetizer -- in Dallas, of all
places -- on Thanksgiving Day, and they were anything but
rubbery.

--
Mark Shaw contact info at homepage -- http://www.panix.com/~mshaw
================================================== ======================
"How can any culture that has more lawyers
than butchers call itself a civilization?" - Alton Brown

Hark! I heard (Mark Shaw) say:
In article ,
Steve YATES wrote:

Have been in France for 10+ years and still don't eat Snails ( too
rubbery )

Hmm. I had an escargot appetizer -- in Dallas, of all
places -- on Thanksgiving Day, and they were anything but
rubbery.

I think it depends on how well they are prepared. I had them once,
back in high school French class, and was neither disgusted nor
impressed. I'm not sure why some people find them to be such an
odd thing to eat -- they're just a land-locked clam...


--
j.j. ~ mom, gamer, novice cook ~
...fish heads, fish heads, eat them up, yum!

"j.j." wrote:

Hark! I heard (Mark Shaw) say:
In article ,
Steve YATES wrote:

Have been in France for 10+ years and still don't eat Snails ( too
rubbery )

Hmm. I had an escargot appetizer -- in Dallas, of all
places -- on Thanksgiving Day, and they were anything but
rubbery.

I think it depends on how well they are prepared. I had them once,
back in high school French class, and was neither disgusted nor
impressed. I'm not sure why some people find them to be such an
odd thing to eat -- they're just a land-locked clam...

You misspelled slugs with a shell.

nancy

Hark! I heard say:
"j.j." wrote:

Hark! I heard (Mark Shaw) say:
In article ,
Steve YATES wrote:

Have been in France for 10+ years and still don't eat Snails ( too
rubbery )

Hmm. I had an escargot appetizer -- in Dallas, of all
places -- on Thanksgiving Day, and they were anything but
rubbery.

I think it depends on how well they are prepared. I had them once,
back in high school French class, and was neither disgusted nor
impressed. I'm not sure why some people find them to be such an
odd thing to eat -- they're just a land-locked clam...

You misspelled slugs with a shell.

Living in the land of slugs as I do (World's 2nd largest slug is the
Banana Slug [Ariolimax Columbianus] of the Pacific Northwest) I try
to forget the relation to snails. It's funny; I have no problem with
letting a snail crawl on me (I think they're cute), but slugs, even
little ones, are just too gross to touch...


--
j.j. ~ mom, gamer, novice cook ~
...fish heads, fish heads, eat them up, yum!

"j.j." wrote:

Hark! I heard say:

Living in the land of slugs as I do (World's 2nd largest slug is the
Banana Slug [Ariolimax Columbianus] of the Pacific Northwest) I try
to forget the relation to snails. It's funny; I have no problem with
letting a snail crawl on me (I think they're cute), but slugs, even
little ones, are just too gross to touch...

(laughing) I'm sorry, that was mean of me, sometimes I'm just plain
evil. I'll work on that. Probably unsuccessfully, I'm mischievous
that way.

nancy

Hark! I heard say:
"j.j." wrote:

Hark! I heard say:

Living in the land of slugs as I do (World's 2nd largest slug is the
Banana Slug [Ariolimax Columbianus] of the Pacific Northwest) I try
to forget the relation to snails. It's funny; I have no problem with
letting a snail crawl on me (I think they're cute), but slugs, even
little ones, are just too gross to touch...

(laughing) I'm sorry, that was mean of me, sometimes I'm just plain
evil. I'll work on that. Probably unsuccessfully, I'm mischievous
that way.

Are you kidding? I like you just as you are, Nancy -- never
change... :-)


--
j.j. ~ mom, gamer, novice cook ~
...fish heads, fish heads, eat them up, yum!