My local high-end grocery stores have many many different varieties of
balsamic vinegar, ranging in price from $4/bottle to $180/bottle. The
most expensive stuff is always, of course, the traditional balsamic
vinegar.

From what I've read, vinegar labelled as "Aceto Balsamico Tradizionale"
is made in one of two DOC-controlled regions of Italy, aged in
consecutively smaller barrels over many years, bottled in specially
designed 100-ml bottles, and sold for reliably high prices. Also, from
what I've read, anything that's not marked as Tradizionale is classified
as "industriale" - usually claimed to be either a blend of cooked grape
must and vinegar, or just wine vinegar with a little caramel color. But
many of the mid-range vinegars I see at the grocery store ($10-$40 for
250ml) indicate that they've been aged for 5, or 8, or 12 years, and
give the same spiel about barrel-aging, but aren't labelled as
Tradizionale. [1]

So, what justifies the high cost of Tradizionale vinegar? Are the
mid-range vinegar producers all lying? (Seems unlikely.) Are the
Tradizionale producers spreading fear, uncertainty, and doubt about
anything that isn't certified? Are the mid-range vinegars just younger
than than the Tradizionales? [2]

I have bought a bottle of white-cap traditional vinegar from Modena, so
I know how worthwhile the method is. I haven't compared the mid-range
balsamics to a traditional one, since one bottle of expensive vinegar is
enough for me right now. But I'd like to know, before I buy another
bottle, whether the certification is worth the money.

Thanks for any answers.

Blake

[1] The Web has 'em too. A couple clicks on Google ads gave me the
following examples: (I have no affiliation with any of these sites)

http://store.yahoo.com/chefshop/fatesbalvin1.html
http://store.yahoo.com/chefshop/foncar12year.html
http://www.store.yahoo.com/cooknstyle/manbalvin12i.html
http://www.mackenzieltd.com/cgi-bin/...AIL&item=VMB85

They're all 250ml bottles for $21-$40, and say the same things about
barrel-aging and different types of wood etc.

[2] But compare http://tinyurl.com/w2rf and http://tinyurl.com/w2rg -
a non-Tradizionale 50-year aged for $89, and a Tradizionale 25-year
for $104.

--
The listed "From:" address is valid for one month past the message date.

Blake Jones asks:

My local high-end grocery stores have many many different varieties of
balsamic vinegar, ranging in price from $4/bottle to $180/bottle. The
most expensive stuff is always, of course, the traditional balsamic
vinegar.

http://www.balsamic.com/pages/balsamic_article1.htm

Watch the wrap. Haven't had my second cup of coffee yet but the gist seems to
be if it comes from Italy, has Tradizionale on the label, and lists the region
from whence it came, it's the pure quill, made to regulation.

That said, IME (not that great, admittedly) the "Tradizionale" imprimatur is
not going to help you, as the taste can vary greatly from brand to brand. The
taste is dependent on the variety of grape(s) used, the species of wood it was
aged in, etc, etc. Kinda like wine.

I'm the only vinegar-phile in the house so we don't go through much of it. As
a matter of fact I don't have a bottle of balsamic vinegar in the house at this
moment.

I don't know where you are located, but here in NoVA (Arlington County),
there's a store called Arrowine. Specialty foods and wine. B.K. (Before
Kid) I used to attend their tasting sessions (free) and one or twice a year
they had balsamic vinegar tastings.

The entire staff is required to attend private tastings/training sessions of
all the food products so they can match the customers' taste to a product. So
if you have preferences (sweeter vs. sharper), and you have access to an
upscale market of this type, ask the staff.

Marc, who had a cottale of beef glazed with balsamic reduction and topped with
mushroom butter for dinner last night.

On 22 Nov 2003 10:21:09 GMT, (MrAoD) wrote:

taste is dependent on the variety of grape(s) used, the species of wood it was
quality and variety of grapes are irrilevant...

I'm the only vinegar-phile in the house so we don't go through much of it. As
I ate vinegar, I love balsamic: balsamic is a "vinegar" just by the
name, it's simply a "different" thing...

....and the original balsamic come only from Modena!

ciao, webpecker

there's a 'fine cooking' back issue with an article on the subject - perhaps
a look at their archives will turn it up



"Blake Jones" wrote in message
. ..
My local high-end grocery stores have many many different varieties of
balsamic vinegar, ranging in price from $4/bottle to $180/bottle. The
most expensive stuff is always, of course, the traditional balsamic
vinegar.

From what I've read, vinegar labelled as "Aceto Balsamico Tradizionale"
is made in one of two DOC-controlled regions of Italy, aged in
consecutively smaller barrels over many years, bottled in specially
designed 100-ml bottles, and sold for reliably high prices. Also, from
what I've read, anything that's not marked as Tradizionale is classified
as "industriale" - usually claimed to be either a blend of cooked grape
must and vinegar, or just wine vinegar with a little caramel color. But
many of the mid-range vinegars I see at the grocery store ($10-$40 for
250ml) indicate that they've been aged for 5, or 8, or 12 years, and
give the same spiel about barrel-aging, but aren't labelled as
Tradizionale. [1]

So, what justifies the high cost of Tradizionale vinegar? Are the
mid-range vinegar producers all lying? (Seems unlikely.) Are the
Tradizionale producers spreading fear, uncertainty, and doubt about
anything that isn't certified? Are the mid-range vinegars just younger
than than the Tradizionales? [2]

I have bought a bottle of white-cap traditional vinegar from Modena, so
I know how worthwhile the method is. I haven't compared the mid-range
balsamics to a traditional one, since one bottle of expensive vinegar is
enough for me right now. But I'd like to know, before I buy another
bottle, whether the certification is worth the money.

Thanks for any answers.

Blake

[1] The Web has 'em too. A couple clicks on Google ads gave me the
following examples: (I have no affiliation with any of these sites)

http://store.yahoo.com/chefshop/fatesbalvin1.html
http://store.yahoo.com/chefshop/foncar12year.html
http://www.store.yahoo.com/cooknstyle/manbalvin12i.html
http://www.mackenzieltd.com/cgi-bin/...AIL&item=VMB85

They're all 250ml bottles for $21-$40, and say the same things about
barrel-aging and different types of wood etc.

[2] But compare http://tinyurl.com/w2rf and http://tinyurl.com/w2rg -
a non-Tradizionale 50-year aged for $89, and a Tradizionale 25-year
for $104.

--
The listed "From:" address is valid for one month past the message date.

"Blake Jones" wrote in message
. ..
My local high-end grocery stores have many many different varieties of
balsamic vinegar, ranging in price from $4/bottle to $180/bottle. The
most expensive stuff is always, of course, the traditional balsamic
vinegar.

From what I've read, vinegar labelled as "Aceto Balsamico Tradizionale"
is made in one of two DOC-controlled regions of Italy, aged in
consecutively smaller barrels over many years, bottled in specially
designed 100-ml bottles, and sold for reliably high prices. Also, from
what I've read, anything that's not marked as Tradizionale is classified
as "industriale" - usually claimed to be either a blend of cooked grape
must and vinegar, or just wine vinegar with a little caramel color. But
many of the mid-range vinegars I see at the grocery store ($10-$40 for
250ml) indicate that they've been aged for 5, or 8, or 12 years, and
give the same spiel about barrel-aging, but aren't labelled as
Tradizionale. [1]

So, what justifies the high cost of Tradizionale vinegar? Are the
mid-range vinegar producers all lying? (Seems unlikely.) Are the
Tradizionale producers spreading fear, uncertainty, and doubt about
anything that isn't certified? Are the mid-range vinegars just younger
than than the Tradizionales? [2]

I have bought a bottle of white-cap traditional vinegar from Modena, so
I know how worthwhile the method is. I haven't compared the mid-range
balsamics to a traditional one, since one bottle of expensive vinegar is
enough for me right now. But I'd like to know, before I buy another
bottle, whether the certification is worth the money.

Thanks for any answers.


There's no easy answer. The label Tradizionale is trademarked (or whatever
the equivalent is in Italy) and can be used only by members of a group that
follow certain traditional methods. You can rest assured that these are real
ly high qualty vinegars, but as you have noticed they are expensive.
Vinegars without this label may be made using the same methods and just as
good but you cannot be sure of this just from the label. So, it beomes a
matter of trying them out and finding the ones you like. The lesser
"industrial" vinegars are a really mixed bag. It's a mistake to think of
them as being in competition with the expensive aged vinegars - it's really
a different product. You would not use them for the same things. Some are
excellent, some are awful, many are so-so. I recommend the 365 brand from
Whole Foods.

Peter G. Aitken

Following up to multiple replies at once.

fg ) wrote in article
:
there's a 'fine cooking' back issue with an article on the subject -
perhaps a look at their archives will turn it up

Thanks for the reference! For others who are curious, I found the
article online at http://www.taunton.com/finecooking/pages/c00038.asp;
it's from the Dec 1999/Jan 2000 issue (#36). It's very informative. It
does answer my questions to some extent; it points out that "Condimento"
balsamic vinegar usually indicates vinegar which is made by the
traditional method, but which hasn't been approved by the consortium.


MrAoD ) wrote in article
:

http://www.balsamic.com/pages/balsamic_article1.htm

Another great article, thanks. (This is an "excerpt" from a NYT article
in 1999, talking with Paul Bertolli about balsamic production.) It
claims that "the moderate to expensive kinds [of mass-produced balsamic]
are one-sixth traditional, aged aceto balsamico, five-sixths ordinary
wine vinegar." It also implies that a number of makers of
non-Tradizionale balsamic do lie:

A giant "6" or "21" on the label means nothing about the age of what
is inside the bottle, Corti said. "It's illegal to put the age of
the vinegar on the bottle," he continued, "but they can print a
number on there, and the customers make the inference."

[Illegal to mark the age? That seems strange.] I guess the taste buds
will have to be the final judge.

Aside: The Fine Cooking article was written by Bertolli, too. I've
eaten at his restaurant (Oliveto) once, and it was excellent. I wonder
if he's planning on selling any of his private stock of balsamic. Hmm.

I don't know where you are located, but here in NoVA (Arlington
County), there's a store called Arrowine. Specialty foods and wine.
B.K. (Before Kid) I used to attend their tasting sessions (free) and
one or twice a year they had balsamic vinegar tastings.

I'm in San Francisco, so I'm sure there's something like that around
here. I'll keep my eyes open.


Peter Aitken ) wrote in article
:
Vinegars without this label may be made using the same methods and
just as good but you cannot be sure of this just from the label. So,
it beomes a matter of trying them out and finding the ones you like.

That does seem to be the bottom line.

I recommend the 365 brand from Whole Foods.

Sounds good. Is that a good everyday balsamic, or a condimento-quality
one?

Thanks for all the advice.

Blake

--
The listed "From:" address is valid for one month past the message date.

webpecker wrote:

On 22 Nov 2003 10:21:09 GMT, (MrAoD) wrote:


taste is dependent on the variety of grape(s) used, the species of wood it was

quality and variety of grapes are irrilevant...


I'm the only vinegar-phile in the house so we don't go through much of it. As

I ate vinegar, I love balsamic: balsamic is a "vinegar" just by the
name, it's simply a "different" thing...

...and the original balsamic come only from Modena!

ciao, webpecker

And just because it comes from Modena doesn't mean that it's "real".
It has to be approved by a "tasting board" to be considered true Balsamic.

--
Steve

If you look like your passport picture, you probably need the trip.

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 14:09:10 GMT, Steve Calvin
wrote:


And just because it comes from Modena doesn't mean that it's "real".
It has to be approved by a "tasting board" to be considered true Balsamic.

If it's non-approved and from Modena - it's probably a
reject, but what the heck... what I've purchased tastes good
anyway and it's less expensive.

sf wrote:

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 14:09:10 GMT, Steve Calvin
wrote:



And just because it comes from Modena doesn't mean that it's "real".
It has to be approved by a "tasting board" to be considered true Balsamic.


If it's non-approved and from Modena - it's probably a
reject, but what the heck... what I've purchased tastes good
anyway and it's less expensive.


No argument there! I've never had a bad bottle from Modena, approved
or not. The older stuff is fabulous, though very expensive. Great to
just sip or drizzled over vanilla ice cream.

--
Steve

If you look like your passport picture, you probably need the trip.