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  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
bouncer
 
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Default Hepatitis from green onions

November 17, 2003
Community Is Reeling From Hepatitis Outbreak
By LYDIA POLGREEN

MONACA, Pa., Nov. 16 - It was her friend Eve's idea: a bunch of high
school girls and a bunch of Mexican food to celebrate her 15th
birthday. Jennifer Seevers, 14, said Mexican food was not her
favorite, but it was Eve's birthday and in Beaver County there are
only so many places for Mexican food. Therefore, Chi-Chi's it was.

So Jennifer and a dozen other girls from Ambridge High School all sat
down to plates of nachos, fajitas and tacos last month. Within a few
weeks, one of the girls was seriously ill with hepatitis A, a
potentially fatal virus that can lead to liver failure, and Jennifer
was lining up to get a vaccine to keep her from developing the disease
too.

"I feel really lucky I didn't get sick," Jennifer said. "But I know a
lot of people did."

In the towns and boroughs in Beaver County, about 20 miles northwest
of Pittsburgh - which has the distinction of having produced an
unusual number of world-class football players, including Joe Namath
and Mike Ditka - it seemed everyone either ate at Chi-Chi's last month
or knows someone who did. Three people have died and more than 500
have been sickened by an outbreak of the disease linked to the
restaurant.

Jennifer's older sister, Dana, came in contact with the virus when the
woman she baby-sits for came down with a serious case of hepatitis A
and had to be hospitalized. Doctors recommended that Dana Seevers, 19,
and her 9-month-old daughter, Cassidy, be vaccinated.

"It's pretty crazy because it just affects everyone," Dana Seevers
said. "Everyone eats there. You just don't know who could be sick."

Health officials in Pennsylvania said the number of illnesses and
deaths was likely to rise through this week as more people developed
the virus, which takes nearly a month to produce symptoms and can be
deadly in some cases.

Richard McGarvey, a spokesman for the Pennsylvania Department of
Health, said that while further deaths were possible, officials hoped
that the antibody inoculations given to more than 8,500 people in the
weeks since news of the outbreak was made public would reduce the
number of new infections.

This is the biggest outbreak of food-borne hepatitis A in the United
States, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said.

The exact cause of the infection is not known, but investigators are
looking closely at green onions, or scallions, which are used in
several dishes Chi-Chi's offers and are often served raw. Outbreaks of
hepatitis A in Tennessee, North Carolina and Georgia in September were
linked to scallions, investigators said.

"We haven't been able to pin it down yet," Mr. McGarvey said. "Green
onions and scallions are obviously one of the sources we are looking
at."

On Saturday, the Food and Drug Administration recommended that
scallions be thoroughly cooked to avoid infection.

The source of the virus in the Tennessee outbreak appeared to be
Mexico, the agency said. Investigators are working with Mexican
officials to determine where the shipment originated and where the
scallions went.

All the people sickened in the Pennsylvania outbreak ate at a
Chi-Chi's restaurant at the Beaver Valley Mall, which draws patrons
from a string of working-class towns along the Ohio River west of
Pittsburgh, between early October and Nov. 2, when the restaurant
voluntarily closed. Eleven workers at Chi-Chi's tested positive for
hepatitis A and are being treated, Bill Zavertnik, chief operating
officer of Chi-Chi's, told The Associated Press. The earlier outbreaks
of hepatitis A did not involve restaurants in the Chi-Chi's chain,
based in Louisville, Ky.

Hepatitis A is caused by a virus, and it is most commonly transmitted
by what doctors call the fecal-oral route, meaning that people catch
it from food or drinks that have been contaminated with fecal matter
from an infected person. People with hepatitis A who fail to wash
their hands after using the bathroom and then handle food can spread
the virus; hand washing is an important means of preventing the
disease from spreading. Contaminated foods that are eaten raw or are
lightly cooked can be a source of infection.

Mr. Zavertnik told The Associated Press that all workers at Chi-Chi's
were trained in federal food safety standards.

The average incubation period is 28 days, with a range of 15 to 50
days, and people may transmit the virus before they themselves develop
symptoms.

In children, the disease is usually mild; some may have no symptoms at
all. Adults are more likely to have symptoms, including jaundice, dark
urine, fatigue, abdominal pain, loss of appetite, nausea, diarrhea and
fever. A blood test is needed to make the diagnosis. There is no
specific treatment once the illness develops, but infected people are
advised to avoid drinking alcohol until they recover fully, to avoid
damaging the liver. Many people recover within a few weeks, but in
some cases the symptoms can last two months or longer.

Fewer than 0.4 percent of all cases in the United States are fatal,
and those are usually in elderly people. Unlike hepatitis B and C,
hepatitis A does not turn into a chronic infection.

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 10,616
cases of hepatitis A were reported in 2001. Not all cases are
reported, and the agency estimates that there were actually 45,000
acute cases that year.

State health officials in Pennsylvania first learned of the outbreak
from emergency room doctors in Beaver County who reported an unusual
number of cases of hepatitis A in late October. Investigators from the
health department began interviewing the people who had fallen ill and
quickly determined the common thread: all of them had eaten at
Chi-Chi's at the Beaver Valley Mall.

Once the department isolated the restaurant as the probable source of
the infection, Chi-Chi's closed the restaurant voluntarily. But
pinning down the source of the illness within the restaurant has been
more difficult, Mr. McGarvey said. While several employees are
infected with hepatitis A, the sheer size of the outbreak made it seem
less likely that a single person transmitted the disease, he said.
However, he added, the department has not ruled out that possibility.

"We first started the investigation looking at food handlers, but the
numbers kept going up," Mr. McGarvey said. "We had no idea the numbers
would go up that high."

--------



  #2 (permalink)   Report Post  
Jeff
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hepatitis from green onions

The hepatitis was not from green onions. It was from hepatits A, which is a
virus. The virus *might* have contaminated the green onions, but the green
onions themselves did not cause the illness.

It is quite possible that whatever was contaminated was contaminated before
it reached the restaurant.

Jeff

"bouncer" > wrote in message
...

<Illeglally copied material deleted>


  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
Mike V
 
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Default Hepatitis from green onions

Are you a first grade teacher, Jeff?
I am sure you are very well thought of!
MikeV

"Jeff" > wrote in message
...
> The hepatitis was not from green onions. It was from hepatits A, which is

a
> virus. The virus *might* have contaminated the green onions, but the green
> onions themselves did not cause the illness.
>
> It is quite possible that whatever was contaminated was contaminated

before
> it reached the restaurant.
>
> Jeff
>
> "bouncer" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> <Illeglally copied material deleted>
>
>



  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
jitney
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hepatitis from green onions

Another benefit of unrestricted illegal immigration. Even though a
majority of Americans want it controlled, our political system will
not fix it because Republicans want cheap labor for their big business
buddies and Democrats want illegal immigrants to stuff the ballot
boxes with their purchased votes.-Jitney
  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
Reg
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hepatitis from green onions


Jeff wrote:

> The hepatitis was not from green onions. It was from hepatits A, which is a
> virus. The virus *might* have contaminated the green onions, but the green
> onions themselves did not cause the illness.


And how is that an important distinction?

> It is quite possible that whatever was contaminated was contaminated before
> it reached the restaurant.


Or not.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com



  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
Zakhar
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hepatitis from green onions


"Reg" > wrote in message
. com...
>
> Jeff wrote:
>
> > The hepatitis was not from green onions. It was from hepatits A, which

is a
> > virus. The virus *might* have contaminated the green onions, but the

green
> > onions themselves did not cause the illness.

>
> And how is that an important distinction?


Because ignorant people will believe that onions are dangerous, when it's
the human shit on the onions that is dangerous.

>
> > It is quite possible that whatever was contaminated was contaminated

before
> > it reached the restaurant.

>
> Or not.


>
> --
> Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com
>



  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
Reg
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hepatitis from green onions

Zakhar wrote:

> "Reg" > wrote in message
> . com...


>>And how is that an important distinction?

>
>
> Because ignorant people will believe that onions are dangerous, when it's
> the human shit on the onions that is dangerous.


That would apply to all food borne illnesses, not just those received
from eating onions. You could say the same thing about meat, for
instance.

There's a message here though. I hear a lot of people espousing
vegetarian diets because they think it will protect them from food
poisoning. Not true.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
Vox Humana
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hepatitis from green onions


"Jeff" > wrote in message
...
> The hepatitis was not from green onions. It was from hepatits A, which is

a
> virus. The virus *might* have contaminated the green onions, but the green
> onions themselves did not cause the illness.
>
> It is quite possible that whatever was contaminated was contaminated

before
> it reached the restaurant.
>


While it is possible, I doubt that was the case unless the restaurant had
the onions trucked in especially for themselves. Don't most grocery stores
and restaurants get their produce from a few local produce wholesalers? If
so, then I would think that other people would be getting sick from food in
other restaurants or from their local grocery bought produce. I suspect
that the food was contaminated from someone in the restaurant's kitchen.
Probably from someone with a subclinical case of hepatitis A.


  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
Bill
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hepatitis from green onions

Zakhar wrote:

> "Reg" > wrote in message
> . com...
>
>>Jeff wrote:
>>
>>
>>>The hepatitis was not from green onions. It was from hepatits A, which

>
> is a
>
>>>virus. The virus *might* have contaminated the green onions, but the

>
> green
>
>>>onions themselves did not cause the illness.

>>
>>And how is that an important distinction?

>
>
> Because ignorant people will believe that onions are dangerous, when it's
> the human shit on the onions that is dangerous.


No, ****Har. Thinking people will realize that "going
veggie" is meaningless; it doesn't automatically mean
you're avoiding dangerous pathogens.

You stupid, STUPID asshole, ****Har.

  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
Zakhar
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hepatitis from green onions


"Reg" > wrote in message
. com...
> Zakhar wrote:
>
> > "Reg" > wrote in message
> > . com...

>
> >>And how is that an important distinction?

> >
> >
> > Because ignorant people will believe that onions are dangerous, when

it's
> > the human shit on the onions that is dangerous.

>
> That would apply to all food borne illnesses, not just those received
> from eating onions. You could say the same thing about meat, for
> instance.


Yes, very true. There's shit on meat too, that normally comes from the
animal's intestinal tract.

>
> There's a message here though. I hear a lot of people espousing
> vegetarian diets because they think it will protect them from food
> poisoning. Not true.


It won't protect them, but generally will reduce the risk.


>
> --
> Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com
>





  #11 (permalink)   Report Post  
Bill
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hepatitis from green onions

Reg wrote:

> Zakhar wrote:
>
>> "Reg" > wrote in message
>> . com...

>
>
>>> And how is that an important distinction?

>>
>>
>>
>> Because ignorant people will believe that onions are dangerous, when it's
>> the human shit on the onions that is dangerous.

>
>
> That would apply to all food borne illnesses, not just those received
> from eating onions. You could say the same thing about meat, for
> instance.
>
> There's a message here though. I hear a lot of people espousing
> vegetarian diets because they think it will protect them from food
> poisoning. Not true.


Exactly right, and exactly the point that ****Har, the
incoherent semi-"vegan", deliberately ignores.

  #12 (permalink)   Report Post  
Bill
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hepatitis from green onions

Zakhar wrote:

> "Reg" > wrote in message
> . com...
>
>>Zakhar wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Reg" > wrote in message
gy.com...

>>
>>>>And how is that an important distinction?
>>>
>>>
>>>Because ignorant people will believe that onions are dangerous, when

>
> it's
>
>>>the human shit on the onions that is dangerous.

>>
>>That would apply to all food borne illnesses, not just those received
>>from eating onions. You could say the same thing about meat, for
>>instance.

>
>
> Yes, very true. There's shit on meat too, that normally comes from the
> animal's intestinal tract.
>
>
>>There's a message here though. I hear a lot of people espousing
>>vegetarian diets because they think it will protect them from food
>>poisoning. Not true.

>
>
> It won't protect them, but generally will reduce the risk.


You have no basis for concluding that, ****Har, you
greasy little prick, except your bigoted semi-"vegan"
religious beliefs.

  #13 (permalink)   Report Post  
Nancy Young
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hepatitis from green onions

Vox Humana wrote:

> While it is possible, I doubt that was the case unless the restaurant had
> the onions trucked in especially for themselves. Don't most grocery stores
> and restaurants get their produce from a few local produce wholesalers? If
> so, then I would think that other people would be getting sick from food in
> other restaurants or from their local grocery bought produce. I suspect
> that the food was contaminated from someone in the restaurant's kitchen.
> Probably from someone with a subclinical case of hepatitis A.


Excellent point. I doubt a large chain like that would be buying
produce from some guy with a truck. There would be sick people
in other restaurants, as you say.

I'm sure the authorities are testing the employees. And checking
for soap in the bathrooms, do their employees wash their hands,
or wear gloves? What's going on in that kitchen.

nancy
  #14 (permalink)   Report Post  
Zakhar
 
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Default Hepatitis from green onions


"Bill" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Zakhar wrote:
>
> > "Reg" > wrote in message
> > . com...
> >
> >>Zakhar wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>"Reg" > wrote in message
> gy.com...
> >>
> >>>>And how is that an important distinction?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Because ignorant people will believe that onions are dangerous, when

> >
> > it's
> >
> >>>the human shit on the onions that is dangerous.
> >>
> >>That would apply to all food borne illnesses, not just those received
> >>from eating onions. You could say the same thing about meat, for
> >>instance.

> >
> >
> > Yes, very true. There's shit on meat too, that normally comes from the
> > animal's intestinal tract.
> >
> >
> >>There's a message here though. I hear a lot of people espousing
> >>vegetarian diets because they think it will protect them from food
> >>poisoning. Not true.

> >
> >
> > It won't protect them, but generally will reduce the risk.

>
> You have no basis for concluding that, ****Har, you
> greasy little prick, except your bigoted semi-"vegan"
> religious beliefs.


Reg, let me introduce "Bill" AKA "Jonathan Ball" and other sock puppets too
numerous to list.

He's the poison dwarf of aaev.

http://tinyurl.com/c54x

(He's the one standing on the door sill, so he can see over the top of the
car.)

>



  #15 (permalink)   Report Post  
usual suspect
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hepatitis from green onions

Zakhar, Ray's racist protege, wrote:
>>That would apply to all food borne illnesses, not just those received
>>from eating onions. You could say the same thing about meat, for
>>instance.

>
> Yes, very true. There's shit on meat too, that normally comes from the
> animal's intestinal tract.


There's more shit on vegetables and mushrooms. Mushrooms are grown in
shit. Birds fly over the fields and drop loads indiscriminately. Farm
workers relieve themselves in the fields as they collect the produce. Etc.

>>There's a message here though. I hear a lot of people espousing
>>vegetarian diets because they think it will protect them from food
>>poisoning. Not true.

>
> It won't protect them, but generally will reduce the risk.


Ipse dixit. Raw faddists are at higher than average risk of food-borne
illness, especially when sprouts are consumed.

http://www.ncpa.org/iss/reg/2003/pd042103f.html
http://www.recordonline.com/archive/2003/08/13/bz13.htm



  #16 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dimitri
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hepatitis from green onions


"jitney" > wrote in message
om...
> Another benefit of unrestricted illegal immigration. Even though a
> majority of Americans want it controlled, our political system will
> not fix it because Republicans want cheap labor for their big business
> buddies and Democrats want illegal immigrants to stuff the ballot
> boxes with their purchased votes.-Jitney


Sure, it's a right wing conspiracy to reduce the working class people who
frequent the Beaver Valley Mall,


Dimitri


  #17 (permalink)   Report Post  
Zakhar
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hepatitis from green onions


"TexMex" > wrote in message
...
> Zakhar wrote:
> >>That would apply to all food borne illnesses, not just those received
> >>from eating onions. You could say the same thing about meat, for
> >>instance.

> >
> > Yes, very true. There's shit on meat too, that normally comes from the
> > animal's intestinal tract.

>
> There's more shit on vegetables and mushrooms.


Evidence?

Mushrooms are grown in
> shit.


Not true. It might contain shit, but is not shit.
http://www.americanmushroom.org/compost.htm

Birds fly over the fields and drop loads indiscriminately. Farm
> workers relieve themselves in the fields as they collect the produce. Etc.


You tosser, surely you can do better than this drivel.

>
> >>There's a message here though. I hear a lot of people espousing
> >>vegetarian diets because they think it will protect them from food
> >>poisoning. Not true.

> >
> > It won't protect them, but generally will reduce the risk.

>
> Ipse dixit. Raw faddists are at higher than average risk of food-borne
> illness, especially when sprouts are consumed.


LOL.

THAT does not follow, or "Ipse dixit" as you arrogantly claim.

Raw food has never been mentioned. READ what I wrote dummy "generally will
reduce the risk".


>
> http://www.ncpa.org/iss/reg/2003/pd042103f.html
> http://www.recordonline.com/archive/2003/08/13/bz13.htm
>



  #18 (permalink)   Report Post  
usual suspect
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hepatitis from green onions

Racist Zakhar wrote:
>>>>That would apply to all food borne illnesses, not just those received
>>>
>>>>from eating onions. You could say the same thing about meat, for
>>>
>>>>instance.
>>>
>>>Yes, very true. There's shit on meat too, that normally comes from the
>>>animal's intestinal tract.

>>
>>There's more shit on vegetables and mushrooms.

>
> Evidence?


From a food safety advocacy website:

While it might seem strange that fruit and vegetables would come
in contact with the human and animal feces that often harbors
pathogenic bacteria, there are many routes by which this can
happen. Wild animals whether small, such as rodents or birds, or
large such as deer, can often gain access to a farm or orchard
during the growing season and can contaminated produce with
their feces and even other animals' feces with which they've
come into contact. The water with which produce comes into
contact while growing should be clean; yet, well water or nearby
streams can become contaminated and rainwater runoff can bring
contamination from land higher up, thereby contaminating the
crops. Lastly, the application of manure from cattle or poultry
can easily introduce pathogens. There are no federal rules or
regulations regarding the use of fresh manure as a fertilizer
for produce. As of February, 1998, voluntary organic standards
for delaying the application of raw manure recommended not
applying it within 60 days of harvest. Yet, E. coli O157:H7 and
Salmonella have been shown to survive for many months in soil.

The location of the farm or orchard or processing facilities
near other farm animals can also result in contamination. It is
believed that some bacteria can form spores and be blown in dust
onto nearby produce or into water used for rinsing. Birds, as
well, have been know to carry pathogens such as Campylobacter
and E. coli O157:H7, so proximity can be an issue.

Harvesting introduces the human element. Unclean hands can
contaminate fresh produce with human pathogens such as hepatitis
A. Workers can walk through contaminated dirt and climb up
ladders placing their hands on rungs they have just soiled.
Often, workers sit on their picking bags while taking a break.
Baskets are placed on the ground and can easily get contaminated
soil in them. Thus, previously pristine produce can be
subsequently contaminated during harvest.

The processing facility itself can be left open to contamination
from dust or animals. Dirt floors can contribute to the risk of
contamination. In the processing shed, produce can be rinsed
with unclean water, whether contaminated by dust or animals or
previous produce passing through the process. Tools such as
filters, knives or fingernails may not be sterilized between
processes or may left in a place where they can again become
contaminated via dust, nonpotable water or animals. A part may
fall on the floor, be picked up and put back into the process
again without being properly cleaned. Lastly, the final
packaging materials, cartons, etc. can be contaminated by
previous fruit or tainted water, by being set on contaminated
ground tainted by manure, or by being transported in a vehicle
that previously held animals.
http://tinyurl.com/vd0z

>>Mushrooms are grown in shit.

>
> Not true. It might contain shit, but is not shit.
> http://www.americanmushroom.org/compost.htm


Composted manure is still *manure* no matter how much straw or sawdust
or other material is added.

>>Birds fly over the fields and drop loads indiscriminately. Farm
>>workers relieve themselves in the fields as they collect the produce. Etc.

>
> You tosser, surely you can do better than this drivel.


See above, ******.

>>>>There's a message here though. I hear a lot of people espousing
>>>>vegetarian diets because they think it will protect them from food
>>>>poisoning. Not true.
>>>
>>>It won't protect them, but generally will reduce the risk.

>>
>>Ipse dixit. Raw faddists are at higher than average risk of food-borne
>>illness, especially when sprouts are consumed.

>
> THAT does not follow,


Which would be "non sequitur," not "ipse dixit."

> or "Ipse dixit" as you arrogantly claim.


My claim was supported with two links, so I beg to differ that it's ipse
dixit.

> Raw food has never been mentioned.


Vegetarianism, though, was. Raw faddists comprise a segment of the
veg-nism. The issue the OP raised was vegetarianism and food safety. My
remark was apropos, dickhead.

> READ what I wrote dummy "generally will reduce the risk".


I did, you smelly cocksucking racist. And your comment is ipse dixit --
an unsupported assertion (or "so you say"). So where's your evidence?

I see you didn't bother commenting on the following links. You should've
read them before making such a big fat ass of yourself.

>>http://www.ncpa.org/iss/reg/2003/pd042103f.html
>>http://www.recordonline.com/archive/2003/08/13/bz13.htm


  #19 (permalink)   Report Post  
Vox Humana
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hepatitis from green onions


"Nancy Young" > wrote in message
...
> Vox Humana wrote:
>
> > While it is possible, I doubt that was the case unless the restaurant

had
> > the onions trucked in especially for themselves. Don't most grocery

stores
> > and restaurants get their produce from a few local produce wholesalers?

If
> > so, then I would think that other people would be getting sick from food

in
> > other restaurants or from their local grocery bought produce. I suspect
> > that the food was contaminated from someone in the restaurant's kitchen.
> > Probably from someone with a subclinical case of hepatitis A.

>
> Excellent point. I doubt a large chain like that would be buying
> produce from some guy with a truck. There would be sick people
> in other restaurants, as you say.
>
> I'm sure the authorities are testing the employees. And checking
> for soap in the bathrooms, do their employees wash their hands,
> or wear gloves? What's going on in that kitchen.
>


I heard on the news today that several of the kitchen staff have tested
positive for Hep. A. Of course they probably got infected the same way the
patrons got infected -- from eating the food. Still, I bet that one person
infected some food at the restaurant and it spread from there.


  #20 (permalink)   Report Post  
Ray
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hepatitis from green onions


"Dimitri" > wrote in message
om...
>
> "jitney" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Another benefit of unrestricted illegal immigration. Even though a
> > majority of Americans want it controlled, our political system will
> > not fix it because Republicans want cheap labor for their big business
> > buddies and Democrats want illegal immigrants to stuff the ballot
> > boxes with their purchased votes.-Jitney

>
> Sure, it's a right wing conspiracy to reduce the working class people who
> frequent the Beaver Valley Mall,
>
>
> Dimitri



Can you guys please cut all this racist talk.
>
>





  #21 (permalink)   Report Post  
Tim Tyler
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hepatitis from green onions

In sci.med.nutrition Bill > wrote or quoted:
> Zakhar wrote:
>> "Reg" > wrote in message


>>>There's a message here though. I hear a lot of people espousing
>>>vegetarian diets because they think it will protect them from food
>>>poisoning. Not true.

>>
>> It won't protect them, but generally will reduce the risk.

>
> You have no basis for concluding that, ****Har, you
> greasy little prick, except your bigoted semi-"vegan"
> religious beliefs.


Of course it is quite accurate.

Check the common sources of food poisoning - and their sources:

Campylobacter Milk and poultry
Salmonella Eggs, meat (especially poultry)
Clostridia Spores in food (especially meat)
Listeria Meat, dairy foods, fish, shellfish

The first is the most common sort of food poisioning seen by doctors.
--
__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/ Remove lock to reply.
  #22 (permalink)   Report Post  
Zakhar
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hepatitis from green onions


"TexMex" > wrote in message
...
> Zakhar wrote:
> >>>>That would apply to all food borne illnesses, not just those received
> >>>
> >>>>from eating onions. You could say the same thing about meat, for
> >>>
> >>>>instance.
> >>>
> >>>Yes, very true. There's shit on meat too, that normally comes from the
> >>>animal's intestinal tract.
> >>
> >>There's more shit on vegetables and mushrooms.

> >
> > Evidence?

>
> From a food safety advocacy website:
>
> While it might seem strange that fruit and vegetables would come
> in contact with the human and animal feces that often harbors
> pathogenic bacteria, there are many routes by which this can
> happen. Wild animals whether small, such as rodents or birds, or
> large such as deer, can often gain access to a farm or orchard
> during the growing season and can contaminated produce with
> their feces and even other animals' feces with which they've
> come into contact. The water with which produce comes into
> contact while growing should be clean; yet, well water or nearby
> streams can become contaminated and rainwater runoff can bring
> contamination from land higher up, thereby contaminating the
> crops. Lastly, the application of manure from cattle or poultry
> can easily introduce pathogens. There are no federal rules or
> regulations regarding the use of fresh manure as a fertilizer
> for produce. As of February, 1998, voluntary organic standards
> for delaying the application of raw manure recommended not
> applying it within 60 days of harvest. Yet, E. coli O157:H7 and
> Salmonella have been shown to survive for many months in soil.
>
> The location of the farm or orchard or processing facilities
> near other farm animals can also result in contamination. It is
> believed that some bacteria can form spores and be blown in dust
> onto nearby produce or into water used for rinsing. Birds, as
> well, have been know to carry pathogens such as Campylobacter
> and E. coli O157:H7, so proximity can be an issue.
>
> Harvesting introduces the human element. Unclean hands can
> contaminate fresh produce with human pathogens such as hepatitis
> A. Workers can walk through contaminated dirt and climb up
> ladders placing their hands on rungs they have just soiled.
> Often, workers sit on their picking bags while taking a break.
> Baskets are placed on the ground and can easily get contaminated
> soil in them. Thus, previously pristine produce can be
> subsequently contaminated during harvest.
>
> The processing facility itself can be left open to contamination
> from dust or animals. Dirt floors can contribute to the risk of
> contamination. In the processing shed, produce can be rinsed
> with unclean water, whether contaminated by dust or animals or
> previous produce passing through the process. Tools such as
> filters, knives or fingernails may not be sterilized between
> processes or may left in a place where they can again become
> contaminated via dust, nonpotable water or animals. A part may
> fall on the floor, be picked up and put back into the process
> again without being properly cleaned. Lastly, the final
> packaging materials, cartons, etc. can be contaminated by
> previous fruit or tainted water, by being set on contaminated
> ground tainted by manure, or by being transported in a vehicle
> that previously held animals.
> http://tinyurl.com/vd0z


I asked for evidence. This is just a list of "can this and can that".

>
> >>Mushrooms are grown in shit.

> >
> > Not true. It might contain shit, but is not shit.
> > http://www.americanmushroom.org/compost.htm

>
> Composted manure is still *manure* no matter how much straw or sawdust
> or other material is added.


Compost is compost dummy. It's like me stating it's composted straw. You're
nearer the composition of manure than mushroom compost.


>
> >>Birds fly over the fields and drop loads indiscriminately. Farm
> >>workers relieve themselves in the fields as they collect the produce.

Etc.
> >
> > You tosser, surely you can do better than this drivel.

>
> See above, ******.


Still drivel.

>
> >>>>There's a message here though. I hear a lot of people espousing
> >>>>vegetarian diets because they think it will protect them from food
> >>>>poisoning. Not true.
> >>>
> >>>It won't protect them, but generally will reduce the risk.
> >>
> >>Ipse dixit. Raw faddists are at higher than average risk of food-borne
> >>illness, especially when sprouts are consumed.

> >
> > THAT does not follow,

>
> Which would be "non sequitur," not "ipse dixit."
>
> > or "Ipse dixit" as you arrogantly claim.

>
> My claim was supported with two links, so I beg to differ that it's ipse
> dixit.
>
> > Raw food has never been mentioned.


It's a red herring.

READ what I wrote dummy "generally will reduce the risk".

>
> Vegetarianism, though, was. Raw faddists comprise a segment of the
> veg-nism. The issue the OP raised was vegetarianism and food safety. My
> remark was apropos, dickhead.
>
> > READ what I wrote dummy "generally will reduce the risk".

>
> I did, you smelly cocksucking racist. And your comment is ipse dixit --
> an unsupported assertion (or "so you say"). So where's your evidence?


You'd say something like "Why don't you go back to the old country?"
Wouldn't you, TexMex?

Most food borne illness is from meat.

Start with

http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/fdcampy.html


>
> I see you didn't bother commenting on the following links. You should've
> read them before making such a big fat ass of yourself.
>
> >>http://www.ncpa.org/iss/reg/2003/pd042103f.html
> >>http://www.recordonline.com/archive/2003/08/13/bz13.htm


It's about raw food, not about the general vegetarian diet that we were
discussing.
>



  #23 (permalink)   Report Post  
Bill
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hepatitis from green onions

****Har, mediocrity, wrote:

> usual suspect > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>****Har, mediocrity, wrote:
>>
>>>>>>That would apply to all food borne illnesses, not just those received


>>>>Mushrooms are grown in shit.
>>>
>>>Not true. It might contain shit, but is not shit.
>>>http://www.americanmushroom.org/compost.htm

>>
>>Composted manure is still *manure* no matter how much straw or sawdust
>>or other material is added.

>
>
> Compost is compost dummy.


Compost is you, dummy.

  #24 (permalink)   Report Post  
Zakhar
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hepatitis from green onions


"Bill" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> ****Har, mediocrity, wrote:
>
> > usual suspect > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>****Har, mediocrity, wrote:
> >>
> >>>>>>That would apply to all food borne illnesses, not just those

received
>
> >>>>Mushrooms are grown in shit.
> >>>
> >>>Not true. It might contain shit, but is not shit.
> >>>http://www.americanmushroom.org/compost.htm
> >>
> >>Composted manure is still *manure* no matter how much straw or sawdust
> >>or other material is added.

> >
> >
> > Compost is compost dummy.

>
> Compost is you, dummy.


Use your own jokes, you dumb dwarf.


>



  #25 (permalink)   Report Post  
usual suspect
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hepatitis from green onions

Racisto Pendejo wrote:
>>>>>>That would apply to all food borne illnesses, not just those received
>>>>>>from eating onions. You could say the same thing about meat, for
>>>>>>instance.
>>>>>
>>>>>Yes, very true. There's shit on meat too, that normally comes from the
>>>>>animal's intestinal tract.
>>>>
>>>>There's more shit on vegetables and mushrooms.
>>>
>>>Evidence?

>>
>> From a food safety advocacy website:
>>
>>While it might seem strange that fruit and vegetables would come
>>in contact with the human and animal feces that often harbors
>>pathogenic bacteria, there are many routes by which this can
>>happen. Wild animals whether small, such as rodents or birds, or
>>large such as deer, can often gain access to a farm or orchard
>>during the growing season and can contaminated produce with
>>their feces and even other animals' feces with which they've
>>come into contact. The water with which produce comes into
>>contact while growing should be clean; yet, well water or nearby
>>streams can become contaminated and rainwater runoff can bring
>>contamination from land higher up, thereby contaminating the
>>crops. Lastly, the application of manure from cattle or poultry
>>can easily introduce pathogens. There are no federal rules or
>>regulations regarding the use of fresh manure as a fertilizer
>>for produce. As of February, 1998, voluntary organic standards
>>for delaying the application of raw manure recommended not
>>applying it within 60 days of harvest. Yet, E. coli O157:H7 and
>>Salmonella have been shown to survive for many months in soil.
>>
>>The location of the farm or orchard or processing facilities
>>near other farm animals can also result in contamination. It is
>>believed that some bacteria can form spores and be blown in dust
>>onto nearby produce or into water used for rinsing. Birds, as
>>well, have been know to carry pathogens such as Campylobacter
>>and E. coli O157:H7, so proximity can be an issue.
>>
>>Harvesting introduces the human element. Unclean hands can
>>contaminate fresh produce with human pathogens such as hepatitis
>>A. Workers can walk through contaminated dirt and climb up
>>ladders placing their hands on rungs they have just soiled.
>>Often, workers sit on their picking bags while taking a break.
>>Baskets are placed on the ground and can easily get contaminated
>>soil in them. Thus, previously pristine produce can be
>>subsequently contaminated during harvest.
>>
>>The processing facility itself can be left open to contamination
>>from dust or animals. Dirt floors can contribute to the risk of
>>contamination. In the processing shed, produce can be rinsed
>>with unclean water, whether contaminated by dust or animals or
>>previous produce passing through the process. Tools such as
>>filters, knives or fingernails may not be sterilized between
>>processes or may left in a place where they can again become
>>contaminated via dust, nonpotable water or animals. A part may
>>fall on the floor, be picked up and put back into the process
>>again without being properly cleaned. Lastly, the final
>>packaging materials, cartons, etc. can be contaminated by
>>previous fruit or tainted water, by being set on contaminated
>>ground tainted by manure, or by being transported in a vehicle
>>that previously held animals.
>>http://tinyurl.com/vd0z

>
> I asked for evidence. This is just a list of "can this and can that".


Take it up with food safety advocates, pendejo estupido. It can and DOES
happen. Want me to show you lists of outbreaks related to unpasteurized
juices, unwashed produce, and other vegetarian fare?

>>>>Mushrooms are grown in shit.
>>>
>>>Not true. It might contain shit, but is not shit.
>>>http://www.americanmushroom.org/compost.htm

>>
>>Composted manure is still *manure* no matter how much straw or sawdust
>>or other material is added.

>
> Compost is compost dummy.


Netherlands info...
Two formulas are in use now, one for horse manure compost and
one for synthetic (= straw) compost. A tonne of horse manure is
supplemented with 100 kg of chicken manure and 25 kg of gypsum.

I'll let you do the math and tell me what percentage of that is manure.

The amount of water to be added varies from 200–800 l per tonne.
This results in 900–1300 kg of compost.

In other words, they make a bunch of shit wet.

For synthetic compost preferably wheat or rye straw is used. Per
tonne 600–900 kg of chicken manure, 75 kg of gypsum and about
5000 l of water are added, resulting in 3000 kg of compost. The
straw is first mixed with 2/3 of the chicken manure, watered en
gets heated for 7–10 days. The purpose of this pretreatment is
to make a product similar to horse manure as it leaves the
stables.

Again, I'll let you do the math. The straw is a fairy inert part, at
least bioactively. It's the shit that matters.

http://www.actahort.org/books/172/172_27.htm

> It's like me stating it's composted straw.


I would laugh my ass off at you if you did.

> You're nearer the composition of manure than mushroom compost.


You ARE compost, shithead.

>>>>Birds fly over the fields and drop loads indiscriminately. Farm
>>>>workers relieve themselves in the fields as they collect the produce.

>
> Etc.
>
>>>You tosser, surely you can do better than this drivel.

>>
>>See above, ******.

>
> Still drivel.


You lack (a) the intelligence and (b) the information required to
overcome the burden of proof offered. That's not a compliment -- I got
the information from an activist site rather than a technical one.

>>>>>>There's a message here though. I hear a lot of people espousing
>>>>>>vegetarian diets because they think it will protect them from food
>>>>>>poisoning. Not true.
>>>>>
>>>>>It won't protect them, but generally will reduce the risk.
>>>>
>>>>Ipse dixit. Raw faddists are at higher than average risk of food-borne
>>>>illness, especially when sprouts are consumed.
>>>
>>>THAT does not follow,

>>
>>Which would be "non sequitur," not "ipse dixit."
>>
>>
>>>or "Ipse dixit" as you arrogantly claim.

>>
>>My claim was supported with two links, so I beg to differ that it's ipse
>>dixit.
>>
>>
>>>Raw food has never been mentioned.

>
> It's a red herring.


No, it isn't. It's apropos since your claim is that vegetarian diets are
inherently safer. That is simply not the case.

> READ what I wrote dummy "generally will reduce the risk".


Ipse dixit.

>>Vegetarianism, though, was. Raw faddists comprise a segment of the
>>veg-nism. The issue the OP raised was vegetarianism and food safety. My
>>remark was apropos, dickhead.
>>
>>>READ what I wrote dummy "generally will reduce the risk".

>>
>>I did, you smelly cocksucking racist. And your comment is ipse dixit --
>>an unsupported assertion (or "so you say"). So where's your evidence?

>
> You'd say something like "Why don't you go back to the old country?"
> Wouldn't you, TexMex?


Non sequitur. Stick to the issue and stop playing the race card, you
filthy bigot.

> Most food borne illness is from meat.
>
> Start with
> http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/fdcampy.html


Note the very first sentences:
When it comes to food poisoning, big outbreaks make headlines.
E. coli in apple juice and alfalfa sprouts. Listeria in
cheese...

Well, pendejo, those are all vegetarian foods. You've addressed one part
of a complex issue, but you haven't exactly shown that avoiding meat
simply reduces one's risks. Even contaminated meat isn't a cause of
disease in humans when its properly handled and cooked; it's the
improper handling (e.g., cross-contamination) and undercooking that
results in food poisoning. The SAME is true for vegetables.

>>I see you didn't bother commenting on the following links. You should've
>>read them before making such a big fat ass of yourself.
>>
>>>>http://www.ncpa.org/iss/reg/2003/pd042103f.html
>>>>http://www.recordonline.com/archive/2003/08/13/bz13.htm

>
> It's about raw food, not about the general vegetarian diet that we were
> discussing.


Yes, it is. See the OP's post:
>>>>>>There's a message here though. I hear a lot of people espousing
>>>>>>vegetarian diets because they think it will protect them from food
>>>>>>poisoning. Not true.


No go eat your sprouts, pendejo. Make sure you rinse them very well in
your chemically-treated water.



  #26 (permalink)   Report Post  
usual suspect
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hepatitis from green onions

Tim Tyler wrote:
>>>>There's a message here though. I hear a lot of people espousing
>>>>vegetarian diets because they think it will protect them from food
>>>>poisoning. Not true.
>>>
>>>It won't protect them, but generally will reduce the risk.

>>
>>You have no basis for concluding that, ****Har, you
>>greasy little prick, except your bigoted semi-"vegan"
>>religious beliefs.

>
> Of course it is quite accurate.


Actually, it isn't.

> Check the common sources of food poisoning - and their sources:


Those are indeed common, but not the ONLY instances of food-borne
illness. Dare I remind you of the outbreak attributed to contaminated
Odwalla Juice in 1996?

> Campylobacter Milk and poultry


And wildlife:
http://tinyurl.com/venp (pdf)

> Salmonella Eggs, meat (especially poultry)
> Clostridia Spores in food (especially meat)
> Listeria Meat, dairy foods, fish, shellfish


And wildlife:
http://tinyurl.com/vd0z

> The first is the most common sort of food poisioning seen by doctors.


You also conveniently left out that cross-contamination can and does
occur. Since many wild birds, who fly over crops and take dumps without
ANY consideration for vegetarians below, carry campylobacter, one can
become infected through contaminated produce. Wildlife also act as
vectors for all the other named pathogens you listed (see:
http://tinyurl.com/vd0z).

Guess I will remind you of Odwalla. One child was killed and scores more
sickened by e Coli infection from unpasteurized apple juice. Odwalla's
harvesting practices (using "ground" or fallen fruit) and machinery were
both faulty. Pasteurization could have prevented or at least minimized
the outbreak. Since the incident, Odwalla pasteurizes all juice.

The following is a list of juice-related epidemics of food poisoning.
http://www.foodsafetynetwork.ca/food...-outbreaks.htm

Raw sprouts often are at the source of Salmonella outbreaks. Since
sprouts are often raised away from animals, perhaps you can tell us the
source of such cross-contamination.

Finally, hepatitis A, which is at issue in the Beaver Valley outbreak,
is spread primarily through raw fruits and vegetables, especially
salads. Animals aren't the vectors for hep A, people are.

  #27 (permalink)   Report Post  
Zakhar
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hepatitis from green onions


"TexMex" > wrote in message
...
> Zakhar wrote:
> >>>>>>That would apply to all food borne illnesses, not just those

received
> >>>>>>from eating onions. You could say the same thing about meat, for
> >>>>>>instance.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Yes, very true. There's shit on meat too, that normally comes from

the
> >>>>>animal's intestinal tract.
> >>>>
> >>>>There's more shit on vegetables and mushrooms.
> >>>
> >>>Evidence?
> >>
> >> From a food safety advocacy website:
> >>
> >>While it might seem strange that fruit and vegetables would come
> >>in contact with the human and animal feces that often harbors
> >>pathogenic bacteria, there are many routes by which this can
> >>happen. Wild animals whether small, such as rodents or birds, or
> >>large such as deer, can often gain access to a farm or orchard
> >>during the growing season and can contaminated produce with
> >>their feces and even other animals' feces with which they've
> >>come into contact. The water with which produce comes into
> >>contact while growing should be clean; yet, well water or nearby
> >>streams can become contaminated and rainwater runoff can bring
> >>contamination from land higher up, thereby contaminating the
> >>crops. Lastly, the application of manure from cattle or poultry
> >>can easily introduce pathogens. There are no federal rules or
> >>regulations regarding the use of fresh manure as a fertilizer
> >>for produce. As of February, 1998, voluntary organic standards
> >>for delaying the application of raw manure recommended not
> >>applying it within 60 days of harvest. Yet, E. coli O157:H7 and
> >>Salmonella have been shown to survive for many months in soil.
> >>
> >>The location of the farm or orchard or processing facilities
> >>near other farm animals can also result in contamination. It is
> >>believed that some bacteria can form spores and be blown in dust
> >>onto nearby produce or into water used for rinsing. Birds, as
> >>well, have been know to carry pathogens such as Campylobacter
> >>and E. coli O157:H7, so proximity can be an issue.
> >>
> >>Harvesting introduces the human element. Unclean hands can
> >>contaminate fresh produce with human pathogens such as hepatitis
> >>A. Workers can walk through contaminated dirt and climb up
> >>ladders placing their hands on rungs they have just soiled.
> >>Often, workers sit on their picking bags while taking a break.
> >>Baskets are placed on the ground and can easily get contaminated
> >>soil in them. Thus, previously pristine produce can be
> >>subsequently contaminated during harvest.
> >>
> >>The processing facility itself can be left open to contamination
> >>from dust or animals. Dirt floors can contribute to the risk of
> >>contamination. In the processing shed, produce can be rinsed
> >>with unclean water, whether contaminated by dust or animals or
> >>previous produce passing through the process. Tools such as
> >>filters, knives or fingernails may not be sterilized between
> >>processes or may left in a place where they can again become
> >>contaminated via dust, nonpotable water or animals. A part may
> >>fall on the floor, be picked up and put back into the process
> >>again without being properly cleaned. Lastly, the final
> >>packaging materials, cartons, etc. can be contaminated by
> >>previous fruit or tainted water, by being set on contaminated
> >>ground tainted by manure, or by being transported in a vehicle
> >>that previously held animals.
> >>http://tinyurl.com/vd0z

> >
> > I asked for evidence. This is just a list of "can this and can that".

>
> Take it up with food safety advocates, pendejo estupido. It can and DOES
> happen. Want me to show you lists of outbreaks related to unpasteurized
> juices, unwashed produce, and other vegetarian fare?


I know it happens. Let me remind you:

You wrote:

>>There's more shit on vegetables and mushrooms.


I wrote:

>Evidence?


Let me spell it out. Where's the evidence that there is more shit on
vegetables?

>
> >>>>Mushrooms are grown in shit.
> >>>
> >>>Not true. It might contain shit, but is not shit.
> >>>http://www.americanmushroom.org/compost.htm
> >>
> >>Composted manure is still *manure* no matter how much straw or sawdust
> >>or other material is added.

> >
> > Compost is compost dummy.

>
> Netherlands info...
> Two formulas are in use now, one for horse manure compost and
> one for synthetic (= straw) compost. A tonne of horse manure is
> supplemented with 100 kg of chicken manure and 25 kg of gypsum.
>
> I'll let you do the math and tell me what percentage of that is manure.
>
> The amount of water to be added varies from 200–800 l per tonne.
> This results in 900–1300 kg of compost.
>
> In other words, they make a bunch of shit wet.
>
> For synthetic compost preferably wheat or rye straw is used. Per
> tonne 600–900 kg of chicken manure, 75 kg of gypsum and about
> 5000 l of water are added, resulting in 3000 kg of compost. The
> straw is first mixed with 2/3 of the chicken manure, watered en
> gets heated for 7–10 days. The purpose of this pretreatment is
> to make a product similar to horse manure as it leaves the
> stables.
>
> Again, I'll let you do the math. The straw is a fairy inert part, at
> least bioactively. It's the shit that matters.
>
> http://www.actahort.org/books/172/172_27.htm


This is 20 year-old data, that you've incorrectly / incompletely quoted
(lied about):

"The most important basic material is *straw-bedded* manure. If this is not
available in sufficient quantity, *straw compost* is used."


>
> > It's like me stating it's composted straw.

>
> I would laugh my ass off at you if you did.


Why, it's in the site that YOU quoted, dummy?

>
> > You're nearer the composition of manure than mushroom compost.

>
> You ARE compost, shithead.


Use you own jokes dummy.

>
> >>>>Birds fly over the fields and drop loads indiscriminately. Farm
> >>>>workers relieve themselves in the fields as they collect the produce.

> >
> > Etc.
> >
> >>>You tosser, surely you can do better than this drivel.
> >>
> >>See above, ******.

> >
> > Still drivel.

>
> You lack (a) the intelligence and (b) the information required to
> overcome the burden of proof offered. That's not a compliment -- I got
> the information from an activist site rather than a technical one.


You haven't got any evidence. You got the information from a non-technical
activist site, and expect it to be used as evidence?

>
> >>>>>>There's a message here though. I hear a lot of people espousing
> >>>>>>vegetarian diets because they think it will protect them from food
> >>>>>>poisoning. Not true.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>It won't protect them, but generally will reduce the risk.
> >>>>
> >>>>Ipse dixit. Raw faddists are at higher than average risk of food-borne
> >>>>illness, especially when sprouts are consumed.
> >>>
> >>>THAT does not follow,
> >>
> >>Which would be "non sequitur," not "ipse dixit."
> >>
> >>
> >>>or "Ipse dixit" as you arrogantly claim.
> >>
> >>My claim was supported with two links, so I beg to differ that it's ipse
> >>dixit.
> >>
> >>
> >>>Raw food has never been mentioned.

> >
> > It's a red herring.

>
> No, it isn't. It's apropos since your claim is that vegetarian diets are
> inherently safer. That is simply not the case.


Generally they are.

>
> > READ what I wrote dummy "generally will reduce the risk".

>
> Ipse dixit.


Pixie and Dixie.

>
> >>Vegetarianism, though, was. Raw faddists comprise a segment of the
> >>veg-nism. The issue the OP raised was vegetarianism and food safety. My
> >>remark was apropos, dickhead.
> >>
> >>>READ what I wrote dummy "generally will reduce the risk".
> >>
> >>I did, you smelly cocksucking racist. And your comment is ipse dixit --
> >>an unsupported assertion (or "so you say"). So where's your evidence?

> >
> > You'd say something like "Why don't you go back to the old country?"
> > Wouldn't you, TexMex?

>
> Non sequitur. Stick to the issue and stop playing the race card, you
> filthy bigot.


You started the race thing, remember?

>
> > Most food borne illness is from meat.
> >
> > Start with
> > http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/fdcampy.html

>
> Note the very first sentences:
> When it comes to food poisoning, big outbreaks make headlines.
> E. coli in apple juice and alfalfa sprouts. Listeria in
> cheese...


Finshed the first paragraph with:

"But the most frequently diagnosed food-borne bacterium rarely makes the
news. The name of the unsung bug? Campylobacter."


>
> Well, pendejo, those are all vegetarian foods.


That the second unethical use of a cited reference you've done today, to my
knowledge. Still, you always copied ~~jonnies~~ shitty style. Come to think
of it, are you ~~jonnie~~?

>You've addressed one part
> of a complex issue, but you haven't exactly shown that avoiding meat
> simply reduces one's risks. Even contaminated meat isn't a cause of
> disease in humans when its properly handled and cooked; it's the
> improper handling (e.g., cross-contamination) and undercooking that
> results in food poisoning. The SAME is true for vegetables.


Meat is part of the animal being eaten as much as the shit that spills out
of its intestines during "processing". It's an intrinsic part of the food.

>
> >>I see you didn't bother commenting on the following links. You should've
> >>read them before making such a big fat ass of yourself.
> >>
> >>>>http://www.ncpa.org/iss/reg/2003/pd042103f.html
> >>>>http://www.recordonline.com/archive/2003/08/13/bz13.htm

> >
> > It's about raw food, not about the general vegetarian diet that we were
> > discussing.

>
> Yes, it is. See the OP's post:


Nothing about raw food there tex.

> >>>>>>There's a message here though. I hear a lot of people espousing
> >>>>>>vegetarian diets because they think it will protect them from food
> >>>>>>poisoning. Not true.

>
> No go eat your sprouts, pendejo. Make sure you rinse them very well in
> your chemically-treated water.


I don't eat sprouts (or bean sprouts). As far as I know my water isn't
chemically treated, as it comes from a deep underground aquifer.

>



  #28 (permalink)   Report Post  
Zakhar
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hepatitis from green onions


"usual suspect" > wrote in message
...
> Tim Tyler wrote:
> >>>>There's a message here though. I hear a lot of people espousing
> >>>>vegetarian diets because they think it will protect them from food
> >>>>poisoning. Not true.
> >>>
> >>>It won't protect them, but generally will reduce the risk.
> >>
> >>You have no basis for concluding that, ****Har, you
> >>greasy little prick, except your bigoted semi-"vegan"
> >>religious beliefs.

> >
> > Of course it is quite accurate.

>
> Actually, it isn't.
>
> > Check the common sources of food poisoning - and their sources:

>
> Those are indeed common, but not the ONLY instances of food-borne
> illness.


No one has stated it's the ONLY instances of food-borne illness, dummy.


>Dare I remind you of the outbreak attributed to contaminated
> Odwalla Juice in 1996?


Recent and up to date facts then Tex?

>
> > Campylobacter Milk and poultry

>
> And wildlife:
> http://tinyurl.com/venp (pdf)
>
> > Salmonella Eggs, meat (especially poultry)
> > Clostridia Spores in food (especially meat)
> > Listeria Meat, dairy foods, fish, shellfish

>
> And wildlife:
> http://tinyurl.com/vd0z
>
> > The first is the most common sort of food poisioning seen by doctors.

>
> You also conveniently left out that cross-contamination can and does
> occur. Since many wild birds, who fly over crops and take dumps without
> ANY consideration for vegetarians below, carry campylobacter, one can
> become infected through contaminated produce. Wildlife also act as
> vectors for all the other named pathogens you listed (see:
> http://tinyurl.com/vd0z).
>
> Guess I will remind you of Odwalla. One child was killed and scores more
> sickened by e Coli infection from unpasteurized apple juice.


Wow! Impressive numbers tex:, especially when the estimate is that food
diseases cause approximately 76 million illnesses, 325,000 hospitalizations,
and 5,000 deaths in the United States each year.


>Odwalla's
> harvesting practices (using "ground" or fallen fruit) and machinery were
> both faulty. Pasteurization could have prevented or at least minimized
> the outbreak. Since the incident, Odwalla pasteurizes all juice.
>
> The following is a list of juice-related epidemics of food poisoning.
> http://www.foodsafetynetwork.ca/food...-outbreaks.htm
>
> Raw sprouts often are at the source of Salmonella outbreaks. Since
> sprouts are often raised away from animals, perhaps you can tell us the
> source of such cross-contamination.
>
> Finally, hepatitis A, which is at issue in the Beaver Valley outbreak,
> is spread primarily through raw fruits and vegetables, especially
> salads. Animals aren't the vectors for hep A, people are.
>



  #29 (permalink)   Report Post  
ravinwulf
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hepatitis from green onions

Ray wrote:
> "Dimitri" > wrote in message
> om...
>
>>"jitney" > wrote in message
.com...
>>
>>>Another benefit of unrestricted illegal immigration. Even though a
>>>majority of Americans want it controlled, our political system will
>>>not fix it because Republicans want cheap labor for their big business
>>>buddies and Democrats want illegal immigrants to stuff the ballot
>>>boxes with their purchased votes.-Jitney

>>
>>Sure, it's a right wing conspiracy to reduce the working class people who
>>frequent the Beaver Valley Mall,

>
> Can you guys please cut all this racist talk.


Spare us the oversensitivity and political correctness. There was no
mention of race in either of the above posts, only illegal immigration.

Regards,
ravinwulf

  #30 (permalink)   Report Post  
Peter
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hepatitis from green onions

ravinwulf wrote:

> Ray wrote:
>
>> "Dimitri" > wrote in message
>> om...
>>
>>> "jitney" > wrote in message
>>> om...
>>>
>>>> Another benefit of unrestricted illegal immigration. Even though a
>>>> majority of Americans want it controlled, our political system will
>>>> not fix it because Republicans want cheap labor for their big business
>>>> buddies and Democrats want illegal immigrants to stuff the ballot
>>>> boxes with their purchased votes.-Jitney
>>>
>>>
>>> Sure, it's a right wing conspiracy to reduce the working class people
>>> who
>>> frequent the Beaver Valley Mall,

>>
>>
>> Can you guys please cut all this racist talk.

>
>
> Spare us the oversensitivity and political correctness. There was no
> mention of race in either of the above posts, only illegal immigration.


Racist Ray Slater was only making a leaden joke. He's
the ultimate bigot, regularly and frequently calling
posters "******", "kike", "gook" and so on.



  #31 (permalink)   Report Post  
Arri London
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hepatitis from green onions

bouncer wrote:
>
> November 17, 2003
> Community Is Reeling From Hepatitis Outbreak
> By LYDIA POLGREEN


<snip>
>
> The exact cause of the infection is not known, but investigators are
> looking closely at green onions, or scallions, which are used in
> several dishes Chi-Chi's offers and are often served raw. Outbreaks of
> hepatitis A in Tennessee, North Carolina and Georgia in September were
> linked to scallions, investigators said.
>
> "We haven't been able to pin it down yet," Mr. McGarvey said. "Green
> onions and scallions are obviously one of the sources we are looking
> at."
>
> On Saturday, the Food and Drug Administration recommended that
> scallions be thoroughly cooked to avoid infection.
>
> The source of the virus in the Tennessee outbreak appeared to be
> Mexico, the agency said. Investigators are working with Mexican
> officials to determine where the shipment originated and where the
> scallions went.


Given how relatively few people have been affected, versus the vast
number of raw green onions consumed in the US daily, wondering if some
of those green onions were possibly contaminated after the fact. As in:
in the restaurants themselves.

We border on Mexico and a lot of our fruit and vegetables come from
there. We haven't had any outbreaks here yet.
  #32 (permalink)   Report Post  
Jeff
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hepatitis from green onions


"Reg" > wrote in message
. com...
>
> Jeff wrote:
>
> > The hepatitis was not from green onions. It was from hepatits A, which

is a
> > virus. The virus *might* have contaminated the green onions, but the

green
> > onions themselves did not cause the illness.

>
> And how is that an important distinction?


I think very important. The green onions themselves are healthy. For
example, there is no need to avoid eating green onions you grow yourself.

> > It is quite possible that whatever was contaminated was contaminated

before
> > it reached the restaurant.

>
> Or not.
>
> --
> Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com
>



  #33 (permalink)   Report Post  
Reg
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hepatitis from green onions


Jeff wrote:

> I think very important. The green onions themselves are healthy. For
> example, there is no need to avoid eating green onions you grow yourself.


Green onions can carry food poisoning if improperly handled, even if
you grew them yourself.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

  #34 (permalink)   Report Post  
Richard Periut
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hepatitis from green onions

Reg wrote:
>
> Jeff wrote:
>
>> I think very important. The green onions themselves are healthy. For
>> example, there is no need to avoid eating green onions you grow yourself.

>
>
> Green onions can carry food poisoning if improperly handled, even if
> you grew them yourself.
>


What the hell are you talking about? Geez, people read a little bit
about something, and they consider themselves authorities on something
they know nothing about.

Green onions, like any other vegetable, is free from pathogenic
organisms (unless night soil is used with humans harboring parasites, et
cetera, or other contaminated fertilizer is used.) Now after it's
picked, someone with a parasitic/viral/bacterial disease can contaminate
the product, which is sometimes eaten raw.

It is recommended that raw vegetables be simmered in hot water for about
one minute. This usually takes care of most pathogens, and will not
significantly alter the vegetable's appearance.

Richard



--
"..A census taker once tried to test me. I ate his liver with some fava
beans and a nice chianti..."

Hannibal "The Cannibal"

Silence Of The Lambs 1991

  #35 (permalink)   Report Post  
Default User
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hepatitis from green onions

Jeff wrote:

> I think very important. The green onions themselves are healthy. For
> example, there is no need to avoid eating green onions you grow yourself.



Can I avoid eating them because they taste nasty?




Brian Rodenborn


  #36 (permalink)   Report Post  
Reg
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hepatitis from green onions



Richard Periut wrote:

> Reg wrote:
>
>> Green onions can carry food poisoning if improperly handled, even if
>> you grew them yourself.
>>

>
> What the hell are you talking about? Geez, people read a little bit
> about something, and they consider themselves authorities on something
> they know nothing about.
>


That's a pretty non-sequitur response. Care to explain how it relates
to anything that I said?

I guess you're saying green onions can't be a source of food borne illness.
The folks who ate at Chi-Chi's would probably disagree.

> It is recommended that raw vegetables be simmered in hot water for about
> one minute. This usually takes care of most pathogens, and will not
> significantly alter the vegetable's appearance.


Right. I blanch all my vegetables before I put them in my salad.
Lettuce is particularly good that way.

I suspect a good amount of the emotional reactions on this subject
are from vegetarian types who like to believe that only meat products
carry a risk of food poisoning. Sorry to burst your collective bubble,
but it ain't so.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

  #37 (permalink)   Report Post  
Richard Periut
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hepatitis from green onions

Reg wrote:
>
>
> Richard Periut wrote:
>
>> Reg wrote:
>>
>>> Green onions can carry food poisoning if improperly handled, even if
>>> you grew them yourself.
>>>

>>
>> What the hell are you talking about? Geez, people read a little bit
>> about something, and they consider themselves authorities on something
>> they know nothing about.
>>

>
> That's a pretty non-sequitur response. Care to explain how it relates
> to anything that I said?


Yes. "Green onions carry food poisoning if improperly handled, even if
you grew them yourself."

Can you explain how that phenomenom occurs? Cause only if what I
explained happens, it does not!

>
> I guess you're saying green onions can't be a source of food borne illness.
> The folks who ate at Chi-Chi's would probably disagree.



Yes, someone or some people contaminated the food. They don't "grow"
with the condition to cause food poisoing. Do you even understand the
various types of syndromes associated with food poisoning?

>
>> It is recommended that raw vegetables be simmered in hot water for
>> about one minute. This usually takes care of most pathogens, and will
>> not significantly alter the vegetable's appearance.

>
>
> Right. I blanch all my vegetables before I put them in my salad.
> Lettuce is particularly good that way.
>
> I suspect a good amount of the emotional reactions on this subject
> are from vegetarian types who like to believe that only meat products
> carry a risk of food poisoning. Sorry to burst your collective bubble,
> but it ain't so.
>


Well I'm not a vegetarian, but one who does recognize dung when I read it.

Richard

--
"..A census taker once tried to test me. I ate his liver with some fava
beans and a nice chianti..."

Hannibal "The Cannibal"

Silence Of The Lambs 1991

  #38 (permalink)   Report Post  
C. James Strutz
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hepatitis from green onions


"Bill" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Zakhar wrote:
>
> > "Reg" > wrote in message
> > . com...
> >
> >>Zakhar wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>"Reg" > wrote in message
> gy.com...
> >>
> >>>>And how is that an important distinction?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Because ignorant people will believe that onions are dangerous, when

> >
> > it's
> >
> >>>the human shit on the onions that is dangerous.
> >>
> >>That would apply to all food borne illnesses, not just those received
> >>from eating onions. You could say the same thing about meat, for
> >>instance.

> >
> >
> > Yes, very true. There's shit on meat too, that normally comes from the
> > animal's intestinal tract.
> >
> >
> >>There's a message here though. I hear a lot of people espousing
> >>vegetarian diets because they think it will protect them from food
> >>poisoning. Not true.

> >
> >
> > It won't protect them, but generally will reduce the risk.

>
> You have no basis for concluding that, ****Har, you
> greasy little prick, except your bigoted semi-"vegan"
> religious beliefs.


There goes the neighborhood....
>



  #39 (permalink)   Report Post  
Robert
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hepatitis from green onions


"ravinwulf" > wrote in message
news
> Ray wrote:
> > "Dimitri" > wrote in message
> > om...
> >
> >>"jitney" > wrote in message
> .com...
> >>
> >>>Another benefit of unrestricted illegal immigration. Even though a
> >>>majority of Americans want it controlled, our political system will
> >>>not fix it because Republicans want cheap labor for their big business
> >>>buddies and Democrats want illegal immigrants to stuff the ballot
> >>>boxes with their purchased votes.-Jitney
> >>
> >>Sure, it's a right wing conspiracy to reduce the working class people

who
> >>frequent the Beaver Valley Mall,

> >
> > Can you guys please cut all this racist talk.

>
> Spare us the oversensitivity and political correctness. There was no
> mention of race in either of the above posts, only illegal immigration.
>
> Regards,
> ravinwulf
>


Show me where the CDC, which is investigating, mentions illegal immigration?
There has been out-breaks caused by imported food products from other
countries and I think the Homeland Security Office should arrest those
illegal onions.
Immigration, both illegal and legal have built this country and continues to
benefit today. If you can't compete with an illegal person who can not even
speak English then you don't deserve a job. Communism is gone, that's where
you can get a government guaranteed job based on your political views.
Unless government wants to enforce affirmative action programs, which it
doesn't because it would make minorities feel inferior, what makes you think
it will give you a job an illegal has.
You guys are so worried about immigration now after you killed off all the
Indians and took their land. You guys take half of Mexico and then wonder
why where all these Mexicans come from.
I don't under estimate the resolve of the American people, you guys nuked
Japan, it usually is pretty evident. With all the benefits granted to
immigrants, the will of the American people has spoken. You guys need cheap
labor and are willing to allow illegals access to birth centers, ID cards,
and everything else they need. You will not send your children out to the
fields. They are not qualified.


  #40 (permalink)   Report Post  
Reg
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hepatitis from green onions

Richard Periut wrote:

> Yes. "Green onions carry food poisoning if improperly handled, even if
> you grew them yourself."
>
> Can you explain how that phenomenom occurs? Cause only if what I
> explained happens, it does not!


Well skipper, to start off you deleted part of my statement. It was
"Green CAN onions carry food poisoning if improperly handled".
Why would you try to distort what I said?

OK, you want a scenario (in addition to the Chi-Chi's case, of course).
Somebody decides they want to create an oil infusion using green onions.
They put their onions in a bottle of olive oil, leave it around for
awhile at room temperature and end up with a bottle full of botulism
toxin.

So ya see Mr crypto-vegan, my assertion stands. Green onions (or *any*
food product for that matter), if improperly handled, can carry food
poisoning. It can, but does not necessarily have to, come from human
contact with the food item in question.

> Yes, someone or some people contaminated the food. They don't "grow"
> with the condition to cause food poisoing.


Wrong again! Your assertion that the pathogen vector must be a human being
is dead wrong. An example would be a botulism case from the midwest
where a restaurant left some foil wrapped baked potatoes out at room
temperature too long. The foil wrapping excluded oxygen just enough
to allow botulism to grow and it resulted in a documented case of food
poisoning. Check the CDC archives and read all about it. It'll be a good
learning experience for you.

> Do you even understand the various types of syndromes associated with
> food poisoning?


Yes, and I'm happy to help you learn about this important subject matter.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

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