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General Cooking (rec.food.cooking) For general food and cooking discussion. Foods of all kinds, food procurement, cooking methods and techniques, eating, etc.

Shortening versus Butter in Homemade Biscuits



 
 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 26-07-2009, 11:26 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 265
Default Shortening versus Butter in Homemade Biscuits

I accidentally posted this first to rec.food-cooking....here's a post for
this group:

I like biscuits now and then, and I got the itch to have some a while back
when I was watching the Food Network and saw Tyler Florence's version. He
shocked me when he said to use vegetable shortening, his reason being that
he found that butter tends to burn, while shortening doesn't.

Well, here's the recipe, first of all:

http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/t...pe2/index.html

Okay, I tried the recipe. I have to say they were not unedible, but
nowhere near the quality of biscuits I had made using butter instead of
shortening. These biscuits came out reminding me of store-bought, canned
biscuits. I blame the shortening, because all shortening is, is
hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated oils. I was skeptical of them for
that reason alone.

That said, I had normally made biscuits with plain whole milk, not
buttermilk. We normally don't keep buttermilk in the house, but my
roommate had a craving for fried chicken with buttermilk batter, so since
we had some left, I made buttermilk biscuits, then buttermilk pancakes a
few days later. The biscuits did rise nicely, however. But they turned
out with a very yellow color inside, which surprised me greatly. They
were quite white going in, but you'd think I'd laced them with turmeric,
they came out so yellow. (I used unbleached flour.)

As for the doneness, there was an even, brown crust all the way around it,
that was almost cookie-like in texture, about a millimeter thick. I
layered it as he suggested on TV, and as a result, they simply pulled
apart like a biscuit-bun, no need for a knife to cut it in half.

Once I get some more flour, I'm going to try buttermilk biscuits again
before it expires, using butter instead of shortening to compare.

What is your experience with using butter versus shortening? So far, I'm
not impressed with shortening, but I may have to blame the buttermilk if
using butter in the next go-around results in the same type of experience.

Damaeus
Ads
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 27-07-2009, 12:08 AM posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,219
Default Shortening versus Butter in Homemade Biscuits

On Jul 26, 5:26*pm, Damaeus wrote:
I accidentally posted this first to rec.food-cooking....here's a post for
this group:

I like biscuits now and then, and I got the itch to have some a while back
when I was watching the Food Network and saw Tyler Florence's version. *He
shocked me when he said to use vegetable shortening, his reason being that
he found that butter tends to burn, while shortening doesn't.


Anyone who uses hydrogenated shortening in 2009 has either been
(metaphorically) living in a cave, or they are a freaking idiot, or
possibly they are evil. If what you say is accurate, Tyler Florence
deserves to be kicked in the groin repeatedly.

Damaeus


--Bryan
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 27-07-2009, 12:19 AM posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 265
Default Shortening versus Butter in Homemade Biscuits

Reading from news:rec.food.cooking,
Bobo Bonobo+AK4- posted:

On Jul 26, 5:26+AKA-pm, Damaeus wrote:

I accidentally posted this first to rec.food-cooking....here's a post for
this group:

I like biscuits now and then, and I got the itch to have some a while
back when I was watching the Food Network and saw Tyler Florence's
version. +AKA-He shocked me when he said to use vegetable shortening, his
reason being that he found that butter tends to burn, while shortening
doesn't.


Anyone who uses hydrogenated shortening in 2009 has either been
(metaphorically) living in a cave, or they are a freaking idiot, or
possibly they are evil. If what you say is accurate, Tyler Florence
deserves to be kicked in the groin repeatedly.


Maybe they like to sabotage their own recipes for television, so they can
keep one little secret and make better food for themselves and friends,
who then wonder why they can't get their own to come out as perfectly: "I
use butter in my own, not the shortening I use on television."

It's like caviar. I dunno... the whole idea of eating caviar is as
disgusting as eating something like haggis. I have long suspected that
maybe caviar is like a running joke with the affluent and wealthy. Perhaps
they don't eat caviar, themselves, but they serve it to all their poor
friends who come around and think they're living the high life by eating
fish roe. Then they sit back and laugh as these poor people think they're
living the high life by eating something that's nasty, but won't kill
them.

I remember seeing some episode of a television show with Donald Trump on
it, serving caviar that sold for $10,000 per jar. I don't recall seeing
Donald, himself, eating any of it. I don't base my whole suspicion on
what Donald did at his own party, especially since, of course, not
everything that happens at a party ends up on television. But really, who
knows? I suppose if one has enough money to play a huge practical joke
like that, and you can afford to spend $500,000 on 50 jars of caviar for a
party, it might be worth that for a big belly laugh after it's all over,
just imagining all those poor people making only $500,000 a year eating
something raked out of the reproductive system of a fish.

Damaeus
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 27-07-2009, 12:47 AM posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,251
Default Shortening versus Butter in Homemade Biscuits

In baking butter is shortening, all fats are shortening. If you want to use
butter as shortening in your biscuits go right ahead, but I think plain
hydrogenated shortening makes a better cleaner tasting biscuit without
adding any flavor of it's own... when I spread good fresh butter on biscuits
I don't want that fresh buttery flavor contaminated by previously baked
butter that's been overly oxidized by being exposed to high oven
temperatures. There are very few breads, if any, that benefit from using
butter as a shortening... even in butter topped breads the butter is
drizzled on after baking... typical bread baking temperatrures will burn
butter. Butter works as a shortening in pastry and sweet doughs but not in
breads

"Damaeus" wrote in message
...
I accidentally posted this first to rec.food-cooking....here's a post for
this group:

I like biscuits now and then, and I got the itch to have some a while back
when I was watching the Food Network and saw Tyler Florence's version. He
shocked me when he said to use vegetable shortening, his reason being that
he found that butter tends to burn, while shortening doesn't.

Well, here's the recipe, first of all:

http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/t...pe2/index.html

Okay, I tried the recipe. I have to say they were not unedible, but
nowhere near the quality of biscuits I had made using butter instead of
shortening. These biscuits came out reminding me of store-bought, canned
biscuits. I blame the shortening, because all shortening is, is
hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated oils. I was skeptical of them for
that reason alone.

That said, I had normally made biscuits with plain whole milk, not
buttermilk. We normally don't keep buttermilk in the house, but my
roommate had a craving for fried chicken with buttermilk batter, so since
we had some left, I made buttermilk biscuits, then buttermilk pancakes a
few days later. The biscuits did rise nicely, however. But they turned
out with a very yellow color inside, which surprised me greatly. They
were quite white going in, but you'd think I'd laced them with turmeric,
they came out so yellow. (I used unbleached flour.)

As for the doneness, there was an even, brown crust all the way around it,
that was almost cookie-like in texture, about a millimeter thick. I
layered it as he suggested on TV, and as a result, they simply pulled
apart like a biscuit-bun, no need for a knife to cut it in half.

Once I get some more flour, I'm going to try buttermilk biscuits again
before it expires, using butter instead of shortening to compare.

What is your experience with using butter versus shortening? So far, I'm
not impressed with shortening, but I may have to blame the buttermilk if
using butter in the next go-around results in the same type of experience.

Damaeus



  #5 (permalink)  
Old 27-07-2009, 01:08 AM posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,178
Default Shortening versus Butter in Homemade Biscuits



Christine Dabney wrote:

On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 23:47:11 GMT, "brooklyn1"
wrote:

Butter works as a shortening in pastry and sweet doughs but not in
breads


Broche has a lot of butter, and it is what gives it much of it's
character. I think that is a bread..

Christine


Plus people made bread with butter or lard long before solid veg
shortenings were invented. They work perfectly for breads as well as
sweetened doughs.

We never have veg shortening in the house. The Maternal Unit likes the
cheap tube biscuits which contain shortening plus too much baking
powder. They have an aftertaste which isn't pleasant.

Damaeus...your overly yellow biscuits may have had too much baking
powder in them. That often will turn a dough yellowish.
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 27-07-2009, 01:28 AM posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 329
Default Shortening versus Butter in Homemade Biscuits

In article ,
Damaeus wrote:


What is your experience with using butter versus shortening? So far, I'm
not impressed with shortening, but I may have to blame the buttermilk if
using butter in the next go-around results in the same type of experience.

Damaeus


Like most Americans my age, I grew up eating shortening biscuits. Crisco
to be exact. Even my grandmother, who still used a wood stove, used
Crisco. She started off using lard of course and changed to Crisco in
the 20's or 30's. I think she also used canned milk (??) I prefer these
to butter biscuits. I often put butter on biscuits and that would be
over the top, butterwise. Since I've enjoyed pie crust with lard, I
would like to try it with biscuits.

D.M.
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 27-07-2009, 01:29 AM posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,523
Default Shortening versus Butter in Homemade Biscuits

Damaeus wrote:
I accidentally posted this first to rec.food-cooking....here's a post for
this group:

I like biscuits now and then, and I got the itch to have some a while back
when I was watching the Food Network and saw Tyler Florence's version. He
shocked me when he said to use vegetable shortening, his reason being that
he found that butter tends to burn, while shortening doesn't.

Well, here's the recipe, first of all:

http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/t...pe2/index.html

Okay, I tried the recipe. I have to say they were not unedible, but
nowhere near the quality of biscuits I had made using butter instead of
shortening. These biscuits came out reminding me of store-bought, canned
biscuits. I blame the shortening, because all shortening is, is
hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated oils. I was skeptical of them for
that reason alone.

That said, I had normally made biscuits with plain whole milk, not
buttermilk. We normally don't keep buttermilk in the house, but my
roommate had a craving for fried chicken with buttermilk batter, so since
we had some left, I made buttermilk biscuits, then buttermilk pancakes a
few days later. The biscuits did rise nicely, however. But they turned
out with a very yellow color inside, which surprised me greatly. They
were quite white going in, but you'd think I'd laced them with turmeric,
they came out so yellow. (I used unbleached flour.)

As for the doneness, there was an even, brown crust all the way around it,
that was almost cookie-like in texture, about a millimeter thick. I
layered it as he suggested on TV, and as a result, they simply pulled
apart like a biscuit-bun, no need for a knife to cut it in half.

Once I get some more flour, I'm going to try buttermilk biscuits again
before it expires, using butter instead of shortening to compare.

What is your experience with using butter versus shortening? So far, I'm
not impressed with shortening, but I may have to blame the buttermilk if
using butter in the next go-around results in the same type of experience.

Damaeus


I use butter. Unsalted butter. I freeze it then grate it over the
largest holes of a box grater. This allows it to incorporate better.

--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 27-07-2009, 01:51 AM posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,219
Default Shortening versus Butter in Homemade Biscuits

On Jul 26, 7:08*pm, Arri London wrote:
Christine Dabney wrote:

On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 23:47:11 GMT, "brooklyn1"
wrote:


Butter works as a shortening in pastry and sweet doughs but not in
breads


Broche has a lot of butter, and it is what gives it much of it's
character. * I think that is a bread.. *


Christine


Plus people made bread with butter or lard long before solid veg
shortenings were invented. They work perfectly for breads as well as
sweetened doughs.

We never have veg shortening in the house.


As it should be.

The Maternal Unit likes the
cheap tube biscuits which contain shortening plus too much baking
powder. They have an aftertaste which isn't pleasant.


Is the mother aware of the unhealthiness of the tube biscuits? If so,
well, maybe she is old, and the tradeoff with atheroscelerosis is OK
to her. There are some neighbor children whose grandmother is dying
of lung cancer. My son is not allowed in their house because she
smokes in there. She continues to smoke. She already has terminal
cancer, so let her smoke. I do have a concern that her grandkids get
second hand smoke. It came out today that they haven't been getting
fed anywhere near often enough, so I backed away from my rule of
generally not feeding the neighborhood kids, and invited them to
dinner. It's not their fault that their mother can't take care of
them, and their grandmother now cannot either.
I served Q'd pork steaks, and corn, cut off the cob, and cooked with
just a little chopped tomato and one chopped jalapeno per six ears of
corn. If we have to informally take over the job of occasionally--or
maybe pretty often--giving them a meal, then I'm OK with that. My
wife fed them bowls of cereal this morning too. They aren't stray
dogs, they're children, and nice children at that. I wish that I had
allowed my son to experience a bit more hunger, but not what they're
going through. This is a case where charitibleness should trump my
priniciple of not becoming the soup kitchen for poorer neighbors'
kids, when the parents make choices to spend their money for things
other than feeding their kids. This family really is in crisis, and
the grandmother who is a very sweet but proud old woman, just can't
step up to the challenge.

Damaeus...your overly yellow biscuits may have had too much baking
powder in them. That often will turn a dough yellowish.


But too much baking powder would screw up texture even more. I think
that it's mostly the butter, but hey, yellow is good. To quote Homer
Simpson, "Mmmm. Rich, creamery butter."

--Bryan
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 27-07-2009, 01:52 AM posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 265
Default Shortening versus Butter in Homemade Biscuits

Reading from news:rec.food.cooking,
Janet Wilder posted:

Damaeus wrote:

What is your experience with using butter versus shortening? So far, I'm
not impressed with shortening, but I may have to blame the buttermilk if
using butter in the next go-around results in the same type of experience.


I use butter. Unsalted butter. I freeze it then grate it over the
largest holes of a box grater. This allows it to incorporate better.


When I used the Crisco shortening version, I put all the dry ingredients
in with the shortening into a stand mixer with the mixing paddle and
let'er rip until the shortening could no longer be distinguished from the
flour. Then I added the buttermilk and let it go around and around a few
more times until it was holding its form enough that I could work it with
my hands without having a big mess.

Damaeus
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 27-07-2009, 02:31 AM posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,223
Default Shortening versus Butter in Homemade Biscuits

Damaeus wrote:

It's like caviar. I dunno... the whole idea of eating caviar is as
disgusting as eating something like haggis. I have long suspected that
maybe caviar is like a running joke with the affluent and wealthy. Perhaps
they don't eat caviar, themselves, but they serve it to all their poor
friends who come around and think they're living the high life by eating
fish roe. Then they sit back and laugh as these poor people think they're
living the high life by eating something that's nasty, but won't kill
them.


Eh. I've never made more than $25,000 a year, and I love caviar.

Serene
--
42 Magazine, celebrating life with meaning. Inaugural issue is here!
http://42magazine.com

"But here's a handy hint: if your fabulous theory for ending war and
all other human conflict will not survive an online argument with
humourless feminists who are not afraid to throw rape around as an
example, your theory needs work." -- Aqua, alt.polyamory
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 27-07-2009, 02:49 AM posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 265
Default Shortening versus Butter in Homemade Biscuits

Reading from news:rec.food.cooking,
Serene Vannoy posted:

Damaeus wrote:

It's like caviar. I dunno... the whole idea of eating caviar is as
disgusting as eating something like haggis. I have long suspected that
maybe caviar is like a running joke with the affluent and wealthy. Perhaps
they don't eat caviar, themselves, but they serve it to all their poor
friends who come around and think they're living the high life by eating
fish roe. Then they sit back and laugh as these poor people think they're
living the high life by eating something that's nasty, but won't kill
them.


Eh. I've never made more than $25,000 a year, and I love caviar.


I'm not curious enough to put it in my mouth, especially since it looks
just like some stuff I saw at a fishing tackle supply shop on the bottom
shelf. Wouldn't it be interesting to discover that caviar is the same
stuff sold to put in your tackle box? They just call the fishing tackle
"caviar" and mark the price up 500,000%.

Damaeus
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 27-07-2009, 02:55 AM posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,223
Default Shortening versus Butter in Homemade Biscuits

Damaeus wrote:
Reading from news:rec.food.cooking,
Serene Vannoy posted:

Damaeus wrote:

It's like caviar. I dunno... the whole idea of eating caviar is as
disgusting as eating something like haggis. I have long suspected that
maybe caviar is like a running joke with the affluent and wealthy. Perhaps
they don't eat caviar, themselves, but they serve it to all their poor
friends who come around and think they're living the high life by eating
fish roe. Then they sit back and laugh as these poor people think they're
living the high life by eating something that's nasty, but won't kill
them.

Eh. I've never made more than $25,000 a year, and I love caviar.


I'm not curious enough to put it in my mouth, especially since it looks
just like some stuff I saw at a fishing tackle supply shop on the bottom
shelf. Wouldn't it be interesting to discover that caviar is the same
stuff sold to put in your tackle box? They just call the fishing tackle
"caviar" and mark the price up 500,000%.


Whatever. There are lots of foods I don't like the looks of, but I don't
feel a need to behave as though those who do like them are eating crap.
If you haven't even tasted it, perhaps you're not the best judge of
how good it is.

Serene

--
42 Magazine, celebrating life with meaning. Inaugural issue is here!
http://42magazine.com

"But here's a handy hint: if your fabulous theory for ending war and
all other human conflict will not survive an online argument with
humourless feminists who are not afraid to throw rape around as an
example, your theory needs work." -- Aqua, alt.polyamory
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 27-07-2009, 04:24 AM posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,953
Default Shortening versus Butter in Homemade Biscuits


"Damaeus" wrote in message
...
I accidentally posted this first to rec.food-cooking....here's a post for
this group:

I like biscuits now and then, and I got the itch to have some a while back
when I was watching the Food Network and saw Tyler Florence's version. He
shocked me when he said to use vegetable shortening, his reason being that
he found that butter tends to burn, while shortening doesn't.

Well, here's the recipe, first of all:

http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/t...pe2/index.html

Okay, I tried the recipe. I have to say they were not unedible, but
nowhere near the quality of biscuits I had made using butter instead of
shortening. These biscuits came out reminding me of store-bought, canned
biscuits. I blame the shortening, because all shortening is, is
hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated oils. I was skeptical of them for
that reason alone.

That said, I had normally made biscuits with plain whole milk, not
buttermilk. We normally don't keep buttermilk in the house, but my
roommate had a craving for fried chicken with buttermilk batter, so since
we had some left, I made buttermilk biscuits, then buttermilk pancakes a
few days later. The biscuits did rise nicely, however. But they turned
out with a very yellow color inside, which surprised me greatly. They
were quite white going in, but you'd think I'd laced them with turmeric,
they came out so yellow. (I used unbleached flour.)

As for the doneness, there was an even, brown crust all the way around it,
that was almost cookie-like in texture, about a millimeter thick. I
layered it as he suggested on TV, and as a result, they simply pulled
apart like a biscuit-bun, no need for a knife to cut it in half.

Once I get some more flour, I'm going to try buttermilk biscuits again
before it expires, using butter instead of shortening to compare.

What is your experience with using butter versus shortening? So far, I'm
not impressed with shortening, but I may have to blame the buttermilk if
using butter in the next go-around results in the same type of experience.



I've never found butter to work well in biscuits. You get a crispy rather
than soft biscuit. I don't like the heavy taste anyway as I put butter on
the biscuits. I have always used lard or vegetable shortening. Lard makes
the best biscuits IMO.

Paul


  #14 (permalink)  
Old 27-07-2009, 04:52 AM posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,974
Default Shortening versus Butter in Homemade Biscuits

On Sun 26 Jul 2009 08:24:53p, Paul M. Cook told us...


"Damaeus" wrote in message
...
I accidentally posted this first to rec.food-cooking....here's a post
for
this group:

I like biscuits now and then, and I got the itch to have some a while
back when I was watching the Food Network and saw Tyler Florence's
version. He shocked me when he said to use vegetable shortening, his
reason being that he found that butter tends to burn, while shortening
doesn't.

Well, here's the recipe, first of all:

http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/t...lk-biscuits-re
cipe2/index.html

Okay, I tried the recipe. I have to say they were not unedible, but
nowhere near the quality of biscuits I had made using butter instead of
shortening. These biscuits came out reminding me of store-bought,
canned biscuits. I blame the shortening, because all shortening is, is
hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated oils. I was skeptical of them
for that reason alone.

That said, I had normally made biscuits with plain whole milk, not
buttermilk. We normally don't keep buttermilk in the house, but my
roommate had a craving for fried chicken with buttermilk batter, so
since we had some left, I made buttermilk biscuits, then buttermilk
pancakes a few days later. The biscuits did rise nicely, however. But
they turned out with a very yellow color inside, which surprised me
greatly. They were quite white going in, but you'd think I'd laced
them with turmeric, they came out so yellow. (I used unbleached
flour.)

As for the doneness, there was an even, brown crust all the way around
it, that was almost cookie-like in texture, about a millimeter thick.
I layered it as he suggested on TV, and as a result, they simply pulled
apart like a biscuit-bun, no need for a knife to cut it in half.

Once I get some more flour, I'm going to try buttermilk biscuits again
before it expires, using butter instead of shortening to compare.

What is your experience with using butter versus shortening? So far,
I'm not impressed with shortening, but I may have to blame the
buttermilk if using butter in the next go-around results in the same
type of experience.



I've never found butter to work well in biscuits. You get a crispy
rather than soft biscuit. I don't like the heavy taste anyway as I put
butter on the biscuits. I have always used lard or vegetable
shortening. Lard makes the best biscuits IMO.

Paul


Lard + buttermilk + soft wheat flour (like White Lily) make the lightest
and best biscuits.

--
Wayne Boatwright
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Condensed milk is wonderful. I don't see how they can get a cow to
sit down on those little cans. Fred Allen



  #15 (permalink)  
Old 27-07-2009, 05:07 AM posted to rec.food.cooking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,262
Default Shortening versus Butter in Homemade Biscuits

In article ,
Serene Vannoy wrote:

Damaeus wrote:
Reading from news:rec.food.cooking,
Serene Vannoy posted:

Damaeus wrote:

It's like caviar. I dunno... the whole idea of eating caviar is as
disgusting as eating something like haggis. I have long suspected that
maybe caviar is like a running joke with the affluent and wealthy. Perhaps
they don't eat caviar, themselves, but they serve it to all their poor
friends who come around and think they're living the high life by eating
fish roe. Then they sit back and laugh as these poor people think they're
living the high life by eating something that's nasty, but won't kill
them.
Eh. I've never made more than $25,000 a year, and I love caviar.


I'm not curious enough to put it in my mouth, especially since it looks
just like some stuff I saw at a fishing tackle supply shop on the bottom
shelf. Wouldn't it be interesting to discover that caviar is the same
stuff sold to put in your tackle box? They just call the fishing tackle
"caviar" and mark the price up 500,000%.


Whatever. There are lots of foods I don't like the looks of, but I don't
feel a need to behave as though those who do like them are eating crap.
If you haven't even tasted it, perhaps you're not the best judge of
how good it is.


Ditto haggis. Still, I suppose that's more for me.

Miche

--
Electricians do it in three phases
 




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