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Soup thickening
"SteveB" wrote
>I went to a restaurant yesterday, and they had great clam chowder. Then my >wife made some corn chowder today, and it was altogether different. (hehe oh man, are you in trouble if she reads it worded that way!) > The thick almost gravy broth had a flour taste. The restaurant chowder > had the same consistency, but a much more flavorful broth. > > What is a good combination for thickening soup broths? Cornstarch? > Wondra? Cornstarch is one, another is to use arrowroot and for the 'broth' use bone stock (consomme really).. Rice flour also helps. |
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Soup thickening
"cshenk" > wrote in message ... > "SteveB" wrote > >>I went to a restaurant yesterday, and they had great clam chowder. Then >>my wife made some corn chowder today, and it was altogether different. > > (hehe oh man, are you in trouble if she reads it worded that way!) > >> The thick almost gravy broth had a flour taste. The restaurant chowder >> had the same consistency, but a much more flavorful broth. >> >> What is a good combination for thickening soup broths? Cornstarch? >> Wondra? > > Cornstarch is one, another is to use arrowroot and for the 'broth' use > bone stock (consomme really).. Rice flour also helps. TIME and Simmering According to Alton Brown (no I don't believe all he says) is takes quite a bit of time (cooking) to eliminate the flour taste. It all depends on how the flour was added Slurry, Roux or sprinkled over sautéing food, or cold mixture of flour and butter. Dimitri |
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Soup thickening
SteveB wrote: > > I went to a restaurant yesterday, and they had great clam chowder. Then my > wife made some corn chowder today, and it was altogether different. The > thick almost gravy broth had a flour taste. The restaurant chowder had the > same consistency, but a much more flavorful broth. > > What is a good combination for thickening soup broths? Cornstarch? Wondra? Flour taste indicates the flour was not cooked enough, and probably added late as just a flour / water mix. Make a roux seperatly and add that to thicken the chowder. You still have to simmer it for a few minutes to get the thickening, but since the roux is already cooked separately there is less chance of having a flour taste. |
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Soup thickening
"SteveB" <toquerville@zionvistas> wrote in message news >I went to a restaurant yesterday, and they had great clam chowder. Then my >wife made some corn chowder today, and it was altogether different. The >thick almost gravy broth had a flour taste. The restaurant chowder had the >same consistency, but a much more flavorful broth. > > What is a good combination for thickening soup broths? Cornstarch? > Wondra? > > Steve For corn chowder, two things: 1) cut the potatoes so that the edge disintegrates into the chowder, and 2) partially puree the soup so that the corn itself thickens it. |
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Soup thickening
On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 16:13:24 -0800, "SteveB" <toquerville@zionvistas>
wrote: >I went to a restaurant yesterday, and they had great clam chowder. Then my >wife made some corn chowder today, and it was altogether different. The >thick almost gravy broth had a flour taste. The restaurant chowder had the >same consistency, but a much more flavorful broth. > >What is a good combination for thickening soup broths? Cornstarch? Wondra? If your soup or gravy tastes floury, then you need to cook the roux longer next time. You might also try mashed potato flakes to thicken a creamy soup. Tara |
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Soup thickening
I went to a restaurant yesterday, and they had great clam chowder. Then my
wife made some corn chowder today, and it was altogether different. The thick almost gravy broth had a flour taste. The restaurant chowder had the same consistency, but a much more flavorful broth. What is a good combination for thickening soup broths? Cornstarch? Wondra? Steve -- "...the man who really counts in the world is the doer, not the mere critic-the man who actually does the work, even if roughly and imperfectly, not the man who only talks or writes about how it ought to be done." Theodore Roosevelt 1891 |
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Soup thickening
"Tara" > wrote in message ... > On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 16:13:24 -0800, "SteveB" <toquerville@zionvistas> > wrote: > >>I went to a restaurant yesterday, and they had great clam chowder. Then >>my >>wife made some corn chowder today, and it was altogether different. The >>thick almost gravy broth had a flour taste. The restaurant chowder had >>the >>same consistency, but a much more flavorful broth. >> >>What is a good combination for thickening soup broths? Cornstarch? >>Wondra? > > If your soup or gravy tastes floury, then you need to cook the roux > longer next time. That's what I was thinking. It's certainly true of gravy. |
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Soup thickening
SteveB wrote:
> I went to a restaurant yesterday, and they had great clam chowder. Then my > wife made some corn chowder today, and it was altogether different. The > thick almost gravy broth had a flour taste. The restaurant chowder had the > same consistency, but a much more flavorful broth. > > What is a good combination for thickening soup broths? Cornstarch? Wondra? > > Steve > A common method is to use a stick blender for a short time or just remove a ladle or two and puree in the blender and reintroduce. If you can taste flour it wasn't cooked. Make a roux separately (heat fat of your choice, add flour, stir till cooked) and add it to the chowder. |
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Soup thickening
SteveB wrote:
> > What is a good combination for thickening soup broths? Cornstarch? Wondra? Barley is a great thickener. |
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Soup thickening
On Oct 18, 8:13�pm, "SteveB" <toquerville@zionvistas> wrote:
> I went to a restaurant yesterday, and they had great clam chowder. �Then my > wife made some corn chowder today, and it was altogether different. �The > thick almost gravy broth had a flour taste. �The restaurant chowder had the > same consistency, but a much more flavorful broth. > > What is a good combination for thickening soup broths? �Cornstarch? �Wondra? Commercially made soups/stews are usually artificially thickened, almost always with some type of starch, matters not which. Better quality soups/stews are thickened naturally by using more ingredients other than additional starch. For instance, why thicken bean soup with a starch slurry when the same thickening result can be obtained and the soup produced would be so much better by simply using more beans. With most soups and stews adding an artificial thickener is cheating. |
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Soup thickening
"SteveB" <toquerville@zionvistas> wrote in message news >I went to a restaurant yesterday, and they had great clam chowder. Then my >wife made some corn chowder today, and it was altogether different. The >thick almost gravy broth had a flour taste. The restaurant chowder had the >same consistency, but a much more flavorful broth. > > What is a good combination for thickening soup broths? Cornstarch? > Wondra? > > Steve > None of the above. You can thicken a bit with the starch in the potatoes, or you can make a roux first and add the liquid to that. Or, you can eat it on the thin side. Some of the best chowders I've ever had are not thick at all, just loaded with flavor. There seems to be a fascination that thicker is better no matter how bland the taste. Turner's Boston Clam Chowder INGREDIENTS: 8 pounds of clams, steamed. Or substitute three 10 oz. whole canned clams 2 cloves garlic, peeled and crushed 1 stick butter 1 medium yellow onion, minced 1 rib celery, minced 1/2 tsp white pepper 1 bay leaf 1/4 tsp whole thyme leaves 1/2 cup flour 5 1/2 cups clam nectar and milk. (use the nectar from steaming and make up the quantity needed by adding milk 3 small or 2 med potato, peeled and cut into 1/4 inch dice 1 pint whipping cream Wash clams and steam in a 12 qt stockpot. Reserve the broth. Remove the clams from their shells and chop coarsely. Cover both items and set aside In the same pot sauté the garlic in the butter for about 3 minutes. Add the onion, celery, pepper, bay leaf, and thyme. Sauté until the onions are clear. Add the flour to make a roux, stirring constantly. Cook over low heat for 5 minutes (don't brown). Slowly add the clam nectar, stirring constantly to avoid lumps. Simmer for 0 minutes. The soup will be thick at this point so be careful that it doesnot burn. Add the potato and cook until tender. Add the cream and clams and bring back to a boil. Correct the seasoning. |
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Soup thickening
In article >,
"SteveB" <toquerville@zionvistas> wrote: > I went to a restaurant yesterday, and they had great clam chowder. Then my > wife made some corn chowder today, and it was altogether different. The > thick almost gravy broth had a flour taste. The restaurant chowder had the > same consistency, but a much more flavorful broth. > > What is a good combination for thickening soup broths? Cornstarch? Wondra? > > Steve Floury taste means the roux wasn't cooked long enough. I don't thicken my soup broths ‹ I like them liquid. Cooking barley in soup will thicken the soup ‹ more than I like, so I cook the barley separately and add it to the soup. -- -Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ http://web.mac.com/barbschaller, Thelma and Louise On the Road Again - It is Finished |
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Soup thickening
SteveB wrote:
> I went to a restaurant yesterday, and they had great clam chowder. Then my > wife made some corn chowder today, and it was altogether different. The > thick almost gravy broth had a flour taste. The restaurant chowder had the > same consistency, but a much more flavorful broth. > > What is a good combination for thickening soup broths? Cornstarch? Wondra? > > Steve > Pardon me if my failure to read every other post in this thread before i reply causes me to reiterate this basic advice. Cook the white flour in a pan by itself or with butter to make a roux to thicken with. Roughly one tbs. of flour to one tbs. of butter for 1 cup of milk or other liquid to thicken it. Brining to a boil and then simmering a small dice of 1 small onion in the cup of milk for about 15 minutes and then straining the milk before you use it to thicken the soup is very good. Combining flour with water to act as a thickener can result in a 'floury' taste. Cooking the flour is usually the answer to that problem. Letting the flour darken a bit to produce what is called a blond roux, as opposed to a white or brown roux which is just cooked a correspondingly shorter and longer period of time, is a way to make sure you have cooked off the 'raw' flour taste. Cornstarch does not have the same flavor issue and a lot of people prefer it to flour, but it gives me indigestion when used as a thickener. But it is the easiest as it can be mixed with a bit of water and added to thicken a soup or sauce. -- Joseph Littleshoes |
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Soup thickening
SteveB wrote:
> I went to a restaurant yesterday, and they had great clam chowder. Then my > wife made some corn chowder today, and it was altogether different. The > thick almost gravy broth had a flour taste. The restaurant chowder had the > same consistency, but a much more flavorful broth. > > What is a good combination for thickening soup broths? Cornstarch? Wondra? > > Steve > Cream? Cream fraiche? |
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Soup thickening
In article >,
George > wrote: > SteveB wrote: > > I went to a restaurant yesterday, and they had great clam chowder. Then my > > wife made some corn chowder today, and it was altogether different. The > > thick almost gravy broth had a flour taste. The restaurant chowder had the > > same consistency, but a much more flavorful broth. > > > > What is a good combination for thickening soup broths? Cornstarch? Wondra? > > > > Steve > > > A common method is to use a stick blender for a short time or just > remove a ladle or two and puree in the blender and reintroduce. If you > can taste flour it wasn't cooked. Make a roux separately (heat fat of > your choice, add flour, stir till cooked) and add it to the chowder. I personally prefer Arrowroot, or Cornstarch if I've none on hand. Arrowroot gives a lovely finish. -- Peace! Om "He who has the gold makes the rules" --Om "He who has the guns can get the gold." -- Steve Rothstein |
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Soup thickening
In article >,
George > wrote: > SteveB wrote: > > I went to a restaurant yesterday, and they had great clam chowder. Then my > > wife made some corn chowder today, and it was altogether different. The > > thick almost gravy broth had a flour taste. The restaurant chowder had the > > same consistency, but a much more flavorful broth. > > > > What is a good combination for thickening soup broths? Cornstarch? Wondra? > > > > Steve > > > A common method is to use a stick blender for a short time or just > remove a ladle or two and puree in the blender and reintroduce. If you > can taste flour it wasn't cooked. Make a roux separately (heat fat of > your choice, add flour, stir till cooked) and add it to the chowder. Okra will also work. <g> -- Peace! Om "He who has the gold makes the rules" --Om "He who has the guns can get the gold." -- Steve Rothstein |
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Soup thickening
SteveB wrote:
> I went to a restaurant yesterday, and they had great clam chowder. Then my > wife made some corn chowder today, and it was altogether different. The > thick almost gravy broth had a flour taste. The restaurant chowder had the > same consistency, but a much more flavorful broth. > > What is a good combination for thickening soup broths? Cornstarch? Wondra? The folks who say that a floury taste means that the roux wasn't cooked enough are correct, but in the 2 soups you mention, clam chowder and corn chowder, I see no reason for a roux. They have potatoes as an ingredient. Potatoes have starch. Just follow the recipe, toss some of the cooked potato into the blender, and use that to thicken to soup. If you don't want to dirty the blender, you can close to the same effect by just mashing some of the potato particularly well. As for a flavorful broth, there's a reason the French call soup stocks the foundation of good cooking. I don't know what the restaurant used for a soup stock, but from your description, it sounds like they used a good one, maybe a from scratch long simmered chicken stock, maybe a demiglace. For that matter, the stock and cream can add to the mouthfeel and thickness of the soup. --Lia |
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Soup thickening
"Pete C." > wrote in message ster.com... > > SteveB wrote: >> >> I went to a restaurant yesterday, and they had great clam chowder. Then >> my >> wife made some corn chowder today, and it was altogether different. The >> thick almost gravy broth had a flour taste. The restaurant chowder had >> the >> same consistency, but a much more flavorful broth. >> >> What is a good combination for thickening soup broths? Cornstarch? >> Wondra? > > Flour taste indicates the flour was not cooked enough, and probably > added late as just a flour / water mix. Make a roux seperatly and add > that to thicken the chowder. You still have to simmer it for a few > minutes to get the thickening, but since the roux is already cooked > separately there is less chance of having a flour taste. > > I always make a roux separately, and add it as needed to the soup stock. Make roux with one part flour to .8 parts olive oil by volume. Mix well in small pyrex bowl and microwave on level 3-4 or so until the flour gets "cooked", stirring now and then. It's done when you can't taste raw flour and browned to your level of liking. You have to use a bit more olive oil than you do on the stove. Cook at a low temp as the oil absorbs the m-wave much more than water. |
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Soup thickening
SteveB wrote:
> I went to a restaurant yesterday, and they had great clam chowder. Then my > wife made some corn chowder today, and it was altogether > different. The thick almost gravy broth had a flour taste. The > restaurant chowder had the same consistency, but a much more > flavorful broth. > What is a good combination for thickening soup broths? Cornstarch? > Wondra? > Steve At the beginning of the chowder, after you have cooked the seasoning vegetables (diced celery, onion and carrot) in a little oil until tender, add a tablespoon of flour to the vegetables and allow the oil, vegetables and flour to cook for a couple of minutes. Stir the flour into the tender vegetables until they are coated with it. This way you will not get any lumps in your cooking liquid. Add your cooking broth and potatoes, cook until the potatoes are done, add the corn kernals last. Simmer until the corn is tender, add any cream or half and half at this point, taste for seasoning and heat until simmering. The tablespoon of flour at the beginning keeps the cooking broth from having a watery consistency but does not make the broth thick and gluey. Cooking the potatoes until done before finishing the soup allows some of the potatoe to become part of the broth and add thickening. Adding cream or half and half at the end also contributes to a thicker broth. Janet |
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Soup thickening
Mark Thorson wrote:
> SteveB wrote: >> >> What is a good combination for thickening soup broths? Cornstarch? >> Wondra? > > Barley is a great thickener. Barley is great in vegetable and veggie beef soup/stews. It doesn't go well with clam or corn chowder. The secret there is cooking the roux so it doesn't taste like flour. Jill |
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Soup thickening
SteveB wrote on Sat, 18 Oct 2008 16:13:24 -0800:
> What is a good combination for thickening soup broths? Cornstarch? > Wondra? What's Wondra? I don't seem to have ever heard of it. A 1:1 mix of corn starch and water works at the end (advantage: no added grease) but flour must be cooked as in a roux to avoid its overpowering taste (adds fat of course). -- James Silverton Potomac, Maryland Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not |
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Soup thickening
Most "cramed" soups start with a roux. Melt two Tbs. of butter in a
saucepan add two Tbs of flour amd stir with a wisk or a fork until the flour is "cooked". , but not brown (unless you're making a dark roux, for gumbo or something similar). A LIGHT roux, such as you'd want for clam or corn chowder just needs a minute or two of cooking to get the raw flour taste out. Then add milk and keep stirring. When the roux comes to a boil, it will get plenty thick. If it's too thick, add more milk. Not thick enough, simmer a few minutes. Now add your corn or clams or whatever. Im guessing the "floury" taste your wife got was due to NOT cooking the flour-butter mixture, or possibly she made a slurry of flour and milk or water without cooking it at all. If you're watching calories or fat, sometimes you can make the creamy consistancy by pureeing some of the ingredients, then adding the puree back to the pot. Bean soup, for instance. I made a nice cream of broccolli soup using pureed cooked rice for a thickener. It's getting be soup weather. hmmm. I think I'll make a pot of something today. LassChance |
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Soup thickening
"Lass Chance_2" > wrote in message ... > Most "cramed" soups start with a roux. Melt two Tbs. of butter in a > saucepan add two Tbs of flour amd stir with a wisk or a fork until the > flour is "cooked". , but not brown 2 minutes! On a low simmer, constantly stirred. It takes two minutes to cook the flour through. |
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Soup thickening
"SteveB" <toquerville@zionvistas> wrote in
news > I went to a restaurant yesterday, and they had great clam chowder. > Then my wife made some corn chowder today, and it was altogether > different. The thick almost gravy broth had a flour taste. The > restaurant chowder had the same consistency, but a much more flavorful > broth. > > What is a good combination for thickening soup broths? Cornstarch? > Wondra? > > Steve > you can cook the flour in a little butter to remove the raw flour taste....Or you can use instant potato flakes....Or actual mashed potatoes. I use mashed potatoes a fair bit in soups. Try this soup recipe @@@@@ Now You're Cooking! Export Format Vadalia Onion Chowder Soups/Chowders/Stews 4 slices bacon -chopped bite sized; -not crumbled 2 tbsp olive oil; or use bacon fat 4 vadialia onions; sliced 2-3 cups mashed potatoes (leftovers); I used 3 4 cloves garlic; minced 2 boxes chicken stock (approx 30 oz) 2 cups corn kernels (I used 2 cans) 2 bay leaf; (optional) 1/4 tsp dried thyme fresh ground black pepper; LOTS salt to taste sour cream; see note* Fry the bacon crisp. drain well the bacon and reserve. (Used later.) Heat oil in large pot. low medium to med heat. Make the onions bite sized, add to pot, cook till tender, about 10 min. Mince the garlic, add to pot, cook 1 minute or so more. Add broth, potatoes, corn, bay leaves, thyme. Bring the soup to a boil. Remove the pot from the heat. Remove the bay leaves. Season with pepper. Add sour cream. *Note add the sour cream just before serving by the tablespoon per bowl. This freezes better without the sour cream. Serve in soup bowls, and sprinkle crumbled bacon on top. this recipe needs more garlic than called for. Note: I just stirred the crumbled bacon in with the whole batch. Don't be shy with the garlic. I used some turkey Stock in with this (excellent.) Used 5 or 6 sweet onions 6-7 potatoes served as mashed. I Didn't have vidalia onions so i used locally grown sweet onions instead. I added a grated carrot for colour. I think some brocolli florets might be nice as well Notes: Alan Boles ** Exported from Now You're Cooking! v5.84 ** -- The beet goes on -Alan |
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Soup thickening
Lass Chance_2 > wrote:
> Most "cramed" soups start with a roux. Not really. There are various ways to bind soups and sauces, and roux is by no means the default. I posted about this before. See, for example, <http://groups.google.com/group/rec.food.cooking/msg/dcc7ede9851ada04>. Clam chowder, which the OP had in mind, would not necessarily need any additional binding, since the starch in the potatoes contained in the soup may well provide enough of it. Whether any extra binding is needed might depend on whether one prefers the chowder to be more creamy or more chunky. Many traditional chowder recipes omit any extra binding. Victor |
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Soup thickening
"Victor Sack"
> Lass Chance_2 wrote: > >> Most "cramed" soups start with a roux. > > Not really. There are various ways to bind soups and sauces, and roux > is by no means the default. I posted about this before. See, for > example, > <http://groups.google.com/group/rec.food.cooking/msg/dcc7ede9851ada04>. > > Clam chowder, which the OP had in mind, would not necessarily need any > additional binding, since the starch in the potatoes contained in the > soup may well provide enough of it. Whether any extra binding is needed > might depend on whether one prefers the chowder to be more creamy or > more chunky. Many traditional chowder recipes omit any extra binding. > > Victor Both clam and fish chowders as made in Maine use the potatoes for thickening. Once they are cooked, smushing some of them provides plenty of starch. Both are also left to be eaten the next day, during which time they thicken more from leached starches. My mother would have fainted at the idea of putting flour into it or eating it the day you cooked it. |
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Soup thickening
On Oct 19, 9:24*am, "James Silverton" >
wrote: > *SteveB *wrote *on Sat, 18 Oct 2008 16:13:24 -0800: > > > What is a good combination for thickening soup broths? Cornstarch? > > Wondra? > > What's Wondra? I don't seem to have ever heard of it. A 1:1 mix of corn > starch and water works at the end (advantage: no added grease) but flour > must be cooked as in a roux to avoid its overpowering taste (adds fat of > course). > > -- > > James Silverton > Potomac, Maryland > > Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not James, Wondra (flour) has been around since 1963. You have probably seen it at the grocery store a million times, but didn't notice it. It is excellent for sauces and some thickening. It dissolves quickly in liquids.I also use it for dusting some food. Read about it at http://www.gourmetsleuth.com/wondraflour.htm http://www.generalmills.com/corporat...t.aspx?start=W (last item on list) GARY HAYMAN Greenbelt, Maryland |
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