A friend made me a salad using garlic infused olive oil. I loved it.
She said she packed fresh, peeled garlic cloves in a jar and filled
it with extra virgin olive oil and let it sit for several days on the
countertop. The first time I tried this, it worked well. Great flavor.
After I used up all the garlic on different meals, I decided to make
more oil. This time however, I noticed small air bubbles rising from
the bottom of the jar. As I didn't notice this the first time I made
it, I wasn't sure what I should do. Fresh garlic, fresh oil, clean
jar. I repeated everything step exactly. My friend is on vacation and
is unable to help. I wonder if one of you kind people could give me an
answer. Are the bubbles air, escaping the garlic, or something more
ominous? Any response welcome.

"JW" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
>A friend made me a salad using garlic infused olive oil. I loved it.
> She said she packed fresh, peeled garlic cloves in a jar and filled
> it with extra virgin olive oil and let it sit for several days on the
> countertop. The first time I tried this, it worked well. Great flavor.
> After I used up all the garlic on different meals, I decided to make
> more oil. This time however, I noticed small air bubbles rising from
> the bottom of the jar. As I didn't notice this the first time I made
> it, I wasn't sure what I should do. Fresh garlic, fresh oil, clean
> jar. I repeated everything step exactly. My friend is on vacation and
> is unable to help. I wonder if one of you kind people could give me an
> answer. Are the bubbles air, escaping the garlic, or something more
> ominous? Any response welcome.

The whole enterprise is ominous, bubbles or not. Look it up on the various
preserving websites. Oil preservation is not a home game.

On Oct 16, 9:38*am, JW > wrote:
> A friend made me a salad using garlic infused olive oil. I loved it.
> She said she packed *fresh, peeled garlic cloves in a jar and filled
> it with extra virgin olive oil and let it sit for several days on the


You and your friend could die from botulism, infusing oil like this
without refrigeration. Do some research, fergoodness'sakes.

It's best to buy already-flavored olive oil, which has been prepared
properly for safety, or just add minced garlic when you're ready to
make the dish.

N.

On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 14:38:49 +0000, JW > wrote:

>A friend made me a salad using garlic infused olive oil. I loved it.
>She said she packed fresh, peeled garlic cloves in a jar and filled
>it with extra virgin olive oil and let it sit for several days on the
>countertop. The first time I tried this, it worked well. Great flavor.
>After I used up all the garlic on different meals, I decided to make
>more oil. This time however, I noticed small air bubbles rising from
>the bottom of the jar. As I didn't notice this the first time I made
>it, I wasn't sure what I should do. Fresh garlic, fresh oil, clean
>jar. I repeated everything step exactly. My friend is on vacation and
>is unable to help. I wonder if one of you kind people could give me an
>answer. Are the bubbles air, escaping the garlic, or something more
>ominous? Any response welcome.


Using garlic cloves to infuse olive oil while the mixture is sitting
on a countertop is playing botulism roulette.
Check out http://tinyurl.com/4tmk64 or Google 'garlic in oil' and read
the information from *reliable* sources such as University Extensions.

Ross.

Nancy2 wrote:
> On Oct 16, 9:38 am, JW > wrote:
>> A friend made me a salad using garlic infused olive oil. I loved it.
>> She said she packed fresh, peeled garlic cloves in a jar and filled
>> it with extra virgin olive oil and let it sit for several days on the
>
>
> You and your friend could die from botulism, infusing oil like this
> without refrigeration. Do some research, fergoodness'sakes.

I really wonder how common or possible this is. Sure - lots of sites
warn you about it, just like they warn you about eating raw pork. But
how often does it happen?

-sw

Well, I guess no more garlic infused olive oil for me!

On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 14:38:49 +0000, JW > wrote:

>A friend made me a salad using garlic infused olive oil. I loved it.
>She said she packed fresh, peeled garlic cloves in a jar and filled
>it with extra virgin olive oil and let it sit for several days on the
>countertop. The first time I tried this, it worked well. Great flavor.
>After I used up all the garlic on different meals, I decided to make
>more oil. This time however, I noticed small air bubbles rising from
>the bottom of the jar. As I didn't notice this the first time I made
>it, I wasn't sure what I should do. Fresh garlic, fresh oil, clean
>jar. I repeated everything step exactly. My friend is on vacation and
>is unable to help. I wonder if one of you kind people could give me an
>answer. Are the bubbles air, escaping the garlic, or something more
>ominous? Any response welcome.

"Sqwertz"
> Nancy2 wrote:
>> On Oct 16, 9:38 am, JW > wrote:
>>> A friend made me a salad using garlic infused olive oil. I loved it.
>>> She said she packed fresh, peeled garlic cloves in a jar and filled
>>> it with extra virgin olive oil and let it sit for several days on the
>>
>>
>> You and your friend could die from botulism, infusing oil like this
>> without refrigeration. Do some research, fergoodness'sakes.
>
> I really wonder how common or possible this is. Sure - lots of sites warn
> you about it, just like they warn you about eating raw pork. But how
> often does it happen?
>
> -sw

The governmental agencies have been working for over 75 years so that it
will never happen, but it does. Really, why try it when the price if you
are wrong is death?

On Oct 16, 10:38�am, JW > wrote:
> A friend made me a salad using garlic infused olive oil. I loved it.
> She said she packed �fresh, peeled garlic cloves in a jar and filled
> it with extra virgin olive oil and let it sit for several days on the
> countertop. The first time I tried this, it worked well. Great flavor.
> After I used up all the garlic on different meals, I decided to make
> more oil. This time however, I noticed small air bubbles rising from
> the bottom of the jar. As I didn't notice this the first time I made
> it, I wasn't sure what I should do. Fresh garlic, fresh oil, clean
> jar. I repeated everything step exactly. My friend is on vacation and
> is unable to help. I wonder if one of you kind people could give me an
> answer. �Are the bubbles air, escaping the garlic, or something more
> ominous? Any response welcome.

Those bubbles are the by product of botulism thriving and multiplying.

Sqwertz wrote:
> Nancy2 wrote:
>> On Oct 16, 9:38 am, JW > wrote:
>>> A friend made me a salad using garlic infused olive oil. I loved it.
>>> She said she packed fresh, peeled garlic cloves in a jar and filled
>>> it with extra virgin olive oil and let it sit for several days on the
>>
>>
>> You and your friend could die from botulism, infusing oil like this
>> without refrigeration. Do some research, fergoodness'sakes.
>
> I really wonder how common or possible this is. Sure - lots of sites
> warn you about it, just like they warn you about eating raw pork. But
> how often does it happen?
>
> -sw


How often should it happen? You only die once.

gloria p

In article >,
Sqwertz > wrote:

> Nancy2 wrote:
> > On Oct 16, 9:38 am, JW > wrote:
> >> A friend made me a salad using garlic infused olive oil. I loved it.
> >> She said she packed fresh, peeled garlic cloves in a jar and filled
> >> it with extra virgin olive oil and let it sit for several days on the
> >
> >
> > You and your friend could die from botulism, infusing oil like this
> > without refrigeration. Do some research, fergoodness'sakes.
>
> I really wonder how common or possible this is. Sure - lots of sites
> warn you about it, just like they warn you about eating raw pork. But
> how often does it happen?
>
> -sw

It happens rarely.

However, when botulism poisoning strikes, it's nasty, nasty, nasty.
It's about risk and how much you're willing to take, Steve.

Personally, I'll take whatever risks I want if I'm the only one whose
health is being risked. I wouldn't put anyone else at risk, however,
by doing researched-and-found-to-be-unsafe practices with foodstuffs. I
will grant that the USDA researchers *may* go overboard with their
safety recommendations, but I believe they have to include The Idiot
Factor in their cautions and/or recommendations. I'm pretty sure I can
find something that will say that garlic-infused oil should be
refrigerated and used within something like three days. You could
probably find it faster. Start with the NCHFP site:
<http://uga.edu/nchfp>
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.mac.com/barbschaller, Thelma and Louise
On the Road Again - It is Finished

On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 14:38:49 +0000, JW > wrote:

>A friend made me a salad using garlic infused olive oil. I loved it.
>She said she packed fresh, peeled garlic cloves in a jar and filled
>it with extra virgin olive oil and let it sit for several days on the
>countertop. The first time I tried this, it worked well. Great flavor.
>After I used up all the garlic on different meals, I decided to make
>more oil. This time however, I noticed small air bubbles rising from
>the bottom of the jar. As I didn't notice this the first time I made
>it, I wasn't sure what I should do. Fresh garlic, fresh oil, clean
>jar. I repeated everything step exactly. My friend is on vacation and
>is unable to help. I wonder if one of you kind people could give me an
>answer. Are the bubbles air, escaping the garlic, or something more
>ominous? Any response welcome.

Madeleine Kammem in the New Making of a Chef warns against it in the
strongest terms for the reasons aleady mentioned.

No oxygen + water + low acid content + C. botulinum bacteria are the
perfect environment for the bacteria to become active and produce the
botulism toxin. There's no way as a home cook that you can tell if
the bacteria are in there. The toxin is deadly in very small amounts.
There aren't that many cases a year, but why risk being one?

- Mark

Sqwertz wrote:
>
> I really wonder how common or possible this is. Sure - lots of sites
> warn you about it, just like they warn you about eating raw pork.
> But how often does it happen?

When Google was young, I noticed a local high-end
restaurant with fresh garlic in the bottom of their bottles
of olive oil. I printed out about 10 pages of stuff from
the net on the subject and mailed it to the restaurant.

The garlic disappeared and I got a free gift certificate
for $25. And I used it. The best meal I ever had was
at that restaurant. I haven't been there in years.
I should go again, if they still exist.

The priciest restaurant in that neighborhood is about
2 blocks away in an old Victorian mansion. It used
to be a funeral parlour, and I know a couple in which
the husband is white and the wife is Asian. They ate
there, and she found out later that the place had been
a funeral parlour and she was a bit freaked out by that.

Which reminds me (like a sort of demented James Burke)
that there's a house near me, now inhabited by Asian
people, in which the mother of one of my classmates
died. He was also the paper boy, and we subscribed.
It was Christmas, there was an open window, and the
wind blew the curtains over a candle that was placed
in front of the window. The resulting fire didn't
damage the house very much, but his mother died.

I wonder if the current residents know that, but I
don't see any constructive purpose in informing them.

"Hey, somebody burned to death in your house 35 years
ago! Do you see her ghost very often? I wouldn't live
there! Freaky, freaky, freaky!"

Melba's Jammin' > wrote in news:barbschaller-
:

> In article >,
> Sqwertz > wrote:
>
>> Nancy2 wrote:
>> > On Oct 16, 9:38 am, JW > wrote:
>> >> A friend made me a salad using garlic infused olive oil. I loved
it.
>> >> She said she packed fresh, peeled garlic cloves in a jar and
filled
>> >> it with extra virgin olive oil and let it sit for several days on
the
>> >
>> >
>> > You and your friend could die from botulism, infusing oil like this
>> > without refrigeration. Do some research, fergoodness'sakes.
>>
>> I really wonder how common or possible this is. Sure - lots of sites
>> warn you about it, just like they warn you about eating raw pork.
But
>> how often does it happen?
>>
>> -sw
>
> It happens rarely.
>
> However, when botulism poisoning strikes, it's nasty, nasty, nasty.
> It's about risk and how much you're willing to take, Steve.
>
> Personally, I'll take whatever risks I want if I'm the only one whose
> health is being risked. I wouldn't put anyone else at risk,
however,
> by doing researched-and-found-to-be-unsafe practices with foodstuffs.
I
> will grant that the USDA researchers *may* go overboard with their
> safety recommendations, but I believe they have to include The Idiot
> Factor in their cautions and/or recommendations. I'm pretty sure I
can
> find something that will say that garlic-infused oil should be
> refrigerated and used within something like three days. You could
> probably find it faster. Start with the NCHFP site:
> <http://uga.edu/nchfp>



http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/freeze/garlic_oil.html


Hmmmmmmmmmmm, I used to have a large bottle of garlic infused oil beside
my stove for quite a few years.I'd top the oil up whenever it was
running low, and every couple of months, I'd finish it off and chuck the
old garlic out and put some new stuff in and top it up with oil. Never
refrigerated it, it was just sitting there on the benchtop going through
all seasons for a couple of years.

No one got sick. No one died.


--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia


If we are not meant to eat animals,
why are they made of meat?

"Mark A.Meggs" > wrote in message
...
>
> No oxygen + water + low acid content + C. botulinum bacteria are the
> perfect environment for the bacteria to become active and produce the
> botulism toxin. There's no way as a home cook that you can tell if
> the bacteria are in there. The toxin is deadly in very small amounts.
> There aren't that many cases a year, but why risk being one?
>

So can you make your own at-home Botox? (rhetorical)

On Thu 16 Oct 2008 06:05:16p, Cheryl told us...

> "Mark A.Meggs" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> No oxygen + water + low acid content + C. botulinum bacteria are the
>> perfect environment for the bacteria to become active and produce the
>> botulism toxin. There's no way as a home cook that you can tell if
>> the bacteria are in there. The toxin is deadly in very small amounts.
>> There aren't that many cases a year, but why risk being one?
>>
>
> So can you make your own at-home Botox? (rhetorical)
>
>

Then all you need is a syringe.

--
Wayne Boatwright
(correct the spelling of "geemail" to reply)

*******************************************
Date: Thursday, 10(X)/16(XVI)/08(MMVIII)
*******************************************
Countdown till Veteran's Day
3wks 4dys 5hrs 54mins
*******************************************
The road to a friend's house is never
difficult nor long.

On Thu 16 Oct 2008 06:05:09p, PeterLucas told us...

> Melba's Jammin' > wrote in news:barbschaller-
> :
>
>> In article >,
>> Sqwertz > wrote:
>>
>>> Nancy2 wrote:
>>> > On Oct 16, 9:38 am, JW > wrote:
>>> >> A friend made me a salad using garlic infused olive oil. I loved
> it.
>>> >> She said she packed fresh, peeled garlic cloves in a jar and
> filled
>>> >> it with extra virgin olive oil and let it sit for several days on
> the
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > You and your friend could die from botulism, infusing oil like this
>>> > without refrigeration. Do some research, fergoodness'sakes.
>>>
>>> I really wonder how common or possible this is. Sure - lots of sites
>>> warn you about it, just like they warn you about eating raw pork.
> But
>>> how often does it happen?
>>>
>>> -sw
>>
>> It happens rarely.
>>
>> However, when botulism poisoning strikes, it's nasty, nasty, nasty.
>> It's about risk and how much you're willing to take, Steve.
>>
>> Personally, I'll take whatever risks I want if I'm the only one whose
>> health is being risked. I wouldn't put anyone else at risk,
> however,
>> by doing researched-and-found-to-be-unsafe practices with foodstuffs.
> I
>> will grant that the USDA researchers *may* go overboard with their
>> safety recommendations, but I believe they have to include The Idiot
>> Factor in their cautions and/or recommendations. I'm pretty sure I
> can
>> find something that will say that garlic-infused oil should be
>> refrigerated and used within something like three days. You could
>> probably find it faster. Start with the NCHFP site:
>> <http://uga.edu/nchfp>
>
>
>
> http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/freeze/garlic_oil.html
>
>
> Hmmmmmmmmmmm, I used to have a large bottle of garlic infused oil beside
> my stove for quite a few years.I'd top the oil up whenever it was
> running low, and every couple of months, I'd finish it off and chuck the
> old garlic out and put some new stuff in and top it up with oil. Never
> refrigerated it, it was just sitting there on the benchtop going through
> all seasons for a couple of years.
>
> No one got sick. No one died.
>
>

You're quite sure you haven't died?

--
Wayne Boatwright
(correct the spelling of "geemail" to reply)

*******************************************
Date: Thursday, 10(X)/16(XVI)/08(MMVIII)
*******************************************
Countdown till Veteran's Day
3wks 4dys 5hrs 53mins
*******************************************
Another smooth escape disguised as a
dramatic exit.

Wayne Boatwright > wrote in
5.61:


>> http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/freeze/garlic_oil.html
>>
>>
>> Hmmmmmmmmmmm, I used to have a large bottle of garlic infused oil
>> beside my stove for quite a few years.I'd top the oil up whenever it
>> was running low, and every couple of months, I'd finish it off and
>> chuck the old garlic out and put some new stuff in and top it up with
>> oil. Never refrigerated it, it was just sitting there on the benchtop
>> going through all seasons for a couple of years.
>>
>> No one got sick. No one died.
>>
>>
>
> You're quite sure you haven't died?
>



If I did, my spirit certainly enjoyed itself over in Malaysia last week
;-)


Maybe Australians are just 'made of sterner stuff'??



--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia


If we are not meant to eat animals,
why are they made of meat?

Mark Thorson wrote:

> Sqwertz wrote:
> >
> > I really wonder how common or possible this is. Sure - lots of sites
> > warn you about it, just like they warn you about eating raw pork.
> > But how often does it happen?
>
> When Google was young, I noticed a local high-end
> restaurant with fresh garlic in the bottom of their bottles
> of olive oil. I printed out about 10 pages of stuff from
> the net on the subject and mailed it to the restaurant.
>
> The garlic disappeared and I got a free gift certificate
> for $25. And I used it. The best meal I ever had was
> at that restaurant. I haven't been there in years.
> I should go again, if they still exist.
>
> The priciest restaurant in that neighborhood is about
> 2 blocks away in an old Victorian mansion. It used
> to be a funeral parlour, and I know a couple in which
> the husband is white and the wife is Asian. They ate
> there, and she found out later that the place had been
> a funeral parlour and she was a bit freaked out by that.
>
> Which reminds me (like a sort of demented James Burke)
> that there's a house near me, now inhabited by Asian
> people, in which the mother of one of my classmates
> died. He was also the paper boy, and we subscribed.
> It was Christmas, there was an open window, and the
> wind blew the curtains over a candle that was placed
> in front of the window. The resulting fire didn't
> damage the house very much, but his mother died.
>
> I wonder if the current residents know that, but I
> don't see any constructive purpose in informing them.
>
> "Hey, somebody burned to death in your house 35 years
> ago! Do you see her ghost very often? I wouldn't live
> there! Freaky, freaky, freaky!"


You should seriously consider opening a Halloween haunted house, Mark...one
of the exhibits could be a tableaux of Steve dying from botulism from some
dicey garlic infused into a bottle of olio. I'll even help set it up...

There is a popular resto near me (Ann Sather, on Chicago's north side) that
some years ago expanded and moved next door into a former funeral
parlor...no one much seemed to care.


--
Best
Greg

PeterMucus wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' > wrote in news:barbschaller-
> :
>
> > In article >,
> > Sqwertz > wrote:
> >
> >> Nancy2 wrote:
> >> > On Oct 16, 9:38 am, JW > wrote:
> >> >> A friend made me a salad using garlic infused olive oil. I loved
> it.
> >> >> She said she packed fresh, peeled garlic cloves in a jar and
> filled
> >> >> it with extra virgin olive oil and let it sit for several days on
> the
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > You and your friend could die from botulism, infusing oil like this
> >> > without refrigeration. Do some research, fergoodness'sakes.
> >>
> >> I really wonder how common or possible this is. Sure - lots of sites
> >> warn you about it, just like they warn you about eating raw pork.
> But
> >> how often does it happen?
> >>
> >> -sw
> >
> > It happens rarely.
> >
> > However, when botulism poisoning strikes, it's nasty, nasty, nasty.
> > It's about risk and how much you're willing to take, Steve.
> >
> > Personally, I'll take whatever risks I want if I'm the only one whose
> > health is being risked. I wouldn't put anyone else at risk,
> however,
> > by doing researched-and-found-to-be-unsafe practices with foodstuffs.
> I
> > will grant that the USDA researchers *may* go overboard with their
> > safety recommendations, but I believe they have to include The Idiot
> > Factor in their cautions and/or recommendations. I'm pretty sure I
> can
> > find something that will say that garlic-infused oil should be
> > refrigerated and used within something like three days. You could
> > probably find it faster. Start with the NCHFP site:
> > <http://uga.edu/nchfp>
>
>
>
> http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/freeze/garlic_oil.html
>
>
> Hmmmmmmmmmmm, I used to have a large bottle of garlic infused oil beside
> my stove for quite a few years.I'd top the oil up whenever it was
> running low, and every couple of months, I'd finish it off and chuck the
> old garlic out and put some new stuff in and top it up with oil. Never
> refrigerated it, it was just sitting there on the benchtop going through
> all seasons for a couple of years.
>
> No one got sick. No one died.


Nope, but your *brain* (as such that it "existed") did...


--
Best
Greg

" I find Greg Morrow lowbrow, witless, and obnoxious. For him to claim that
we are some
kind of comedy team turns my stomach."
- "cybercat" to me on rec.food.cooking

On Thu 16 Oct 2008 06:14:13p, PeterLucas told us...

> Wayne Boatwright > wrote in
> 5.61:
>
>
>>> http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/freeze/garlic_oil.html
>>>
>>>
>>> Hmmmmmmmmmmm, I used to have a large bottle of garlic infused oil
>>> beside my stove for quite a few years.I'd top the oil up whenever it
>>> was running low, and every couple of months, I'd finish it off and
>>> chuck the old garlic out and put some new stuff in and top it up with
>>> oil. Never refrigerated it, it was just sitting there on the benchtop
>>> going through all seasons for a couple of years.
>>>
>>> No one got sick. No one died.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> You're quite sure you haven't died?
>>
>
>
>
> If I did, my spirit certainly enjoyed itself over in Malaysia last week
> ;-)

Now don't tell me you've become spiritual! :-)

> Maybe Australians are just 'made of sterner stuff'??

Naw, you're just a bunch of ruffians. :-)



--
Wayne Boatwright
(correct the spelling of "geemail" to reply)

*******************************************
Date: Thursday, 10(X)/16(XVI)/08(MMVIII)
*******************************************
Countdown till Veteran's Day
3wks 4dys 5hrs 32mins
*******************************************
Cats must eat mom's make up.
*******************************************

On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 01:05:09 +0000 (UTC), PeterLucas
> wrote:

>Melba's Jammin' > wrote in news:barbschaller-
:
>
>> In article >,
>> Sqwertz > wrote:
>>
>>> Nancy2 wrote:
>>> > On Oct 16, 9:38 am, JW > wrote:
>>> >> A friend made me a salad using garlic infused olive oil. I loved
>it.
>>> >> She said she packed fresh, peeled garlic cloves in a jar and
>filled
>>> >> it with extra virgin olive oil and let it sit for several days on
>the
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > You and your friend could die from botulism, infusing oil like this
>>> > without refrigeration. Do some research, fergoodness'sakes.
>>>
>>> I really wonder how common or possible this is. Sure - lots of sites
>>> warn you about it, just like they warn you about eating raw pork.
>But
>>> how often does it happen?
>>>
>>> -sw
>>
>> It happens rarely.
>>
>> However, when botulism poisoning strikes, it's nasty, nasty, nasty.
>> It's about risk and how much you're willing to take, Steve.
>>
>> Personally, I'll take whatever risks I want if I'm the only one whose
>> health is being risked. I wouldn't put anyone else at risk,
>however,
>> by doing researched-and-found-to-be-unsafe practices with foodstuffs.
>I
>> will grant that the USDA researchers *may* go overboard with their
>> safety recommendations, but I believe they have to include The Idiot
>> Factor in their cautions and/or recommendations. I'm pretty sure I
>can
>> find something that will say that garlic-infused oil should be
>> refrigerated and used within something like three days. You could
>> probably find it faster. Start with the NCHFP site:
>> <http://uga.edu/nchfp>
>
>
>
>http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/freeze/garlic_oil.html
>
>
>Hmmmmmmmmmmm, I used to have a large bottle of garlic infused oil beside
>my stove for quite a few years.I'd top the oil up whenever it was
>running low, and every couple of months, I'd finish it off and chuck the
>old garlic out and put some new stuff in and top it up with oil. Never
>refrigerated it, it was just sitting there on the benchtop going through
>all seasons for a couple of years.
>
>No one got sick. No one died.

Given the amount of time Australia has been a separate landmass it's
possible C. botulinum isn't there or has mutated into a less toxic
variety. Although given how many plants have been imported it's a
good bet a toxic variety is there now (it naturally occurs in soil).

You need to find some Australian food preservation scientists who can
give you the straight dope on the situation there.

- Mark

Wayne Boatwright > wrote in
5.61:


>>> You're quite sure you haven't died?
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> If I did, my spirit certainly enjoyed itself over in Malaysia last
week
>> ;-)
>
> Now don't tell me you've become spiritual! :-)


Well, I did have a few G&T's last night when friends called over for
dinner..... that's the only spirits I get into :-)


>
>> Maybe Australians are just 'made of sterner stuff'??
>
> Naw, you're just a bunch of ruffians. :-)


That too!!



--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia


If we are not meant to eat animals,
why are they made of meat?

Mark A.Meggs > wrote in
:


>>http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/freeze/garlic_oil.html
>>
>>
>>Hmmmmmmmmmmm, I used to have a large bottle of garlic infused oil
beside
>>my stove for quite a few years.I'd top the oil up whenever it was
>>running low, and every couple of months, I'd finish it off and chuck
the
>>old garlic out and put some new stuff in and top it up with oil. Never
>>refrigerated it, it was just sitting there on the benchtop going
through
>>all seasons for a couple of years.
>>
>>No one got sick. No one died.
>
> Given the amount of time Australia has been a separate landmass it's
> possible C. botulinum isn't there or has mutated into a less toxic
> variety.



GIMF.

C. botulinum type A was found to be present in soil samples from
mountain areas of Victoria.[20] Type B organisms were detected in marine
mud from Tasmania.[21] Type A C. botulinum have been found in Sydney
suburbs and types A and B were isolated from urban areas. In a well
defined area of the Darling-Downs region of Queensland a study showed
the prevalence and persistence of C. botulinum type B after many cases
of botulism in horses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clostridium_botulinum



> Although given how many plants have been imported it's a
> good bet a toxic variety is there now (it naturally occurs in soil).
>
> You need to find some Australian food preservation scientists who can
> give you the straight dope on the situation there.


Might be worth looking into, thanks.

I haven't done the garlic oil thing for a couple of years now, not since
we changed to exclusivly using Olive Oil and EVOO.

--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia


If we are not meant to eat animals,
why are they made of meat?

In article >,
JW > wrote:

> A friend made me a salad using garlic infused olive oil. I loved it.
> She said she packed fresh, peeled garlic cloves in a jar and filled
> it with extra virgin olive oil and let it sit for several days on the
> countertop. The first time I tried this, it worked well. Great flavor.
> After I used up all the garlic on different meals, I decided to make
> more oil. This time however, I noticed small air bubbles rising from
> the bottom of the jar. As I didn't notice this the first time I made
> it, I wasn't sure what I should do. Fresh garlic, fresh oil, clean
> jar. I repeated everything step exactly. My friend is on vacation and
> is unable to help. I wonder if one of you kind people could give me an
> answer. Are the bubbles air, escaping the garlic, or something more
> ominous? Any response welcome.

Toss it.

There is a real risk of botulism with this procedure.
Gas production like that is often a sign of spoilage.

Botulism poisoning is not something to fool with.
--
Peace! Om

"He who has the gold makes the rules"
--Om

"He who has the guns can get the gold."
-- Steve Rothstein

Omelet > wrote in newsmpomelet-
:

> In article >,
> JW > wrote:
>
>> A friend made me a salad using garlic infused olive oil. I loved it.
>> She said she packed fresh, peeled garlic cloves in a jar and filled
>> it with extra virgin olive oil and let it sit for several days on the
>> countertop. The first time I tried this, it worked well. Great
flavor.
>> After I used up all the garlic on different meals, I decided to make
>> more oil. This time however, I noticed small air bubbles rising from
>> the bottom of the jar. As I didn't notice this the first time I made
>> it, I wasn't sure what I should do. Fresh garlic, fresh oil, clean
>> jar. I repeated everything step exactly. My friend is on vacation and
>> is unable to help. I wonder if one of you kind people could give me
an
>> answer. Are the bubbles air, escaping the garlic, or something more
>> ominous? Any response welcome.
>
> Toss it.
>
> There is a real risk of botulism with this procedure.
> Gas production like that is often a sign of spoilage.
>
> Botulism poisoning is not something to fool with.



Everytime I made garlic infused oil, it bubbled.

It did that for the many years that I made it. I used fresh garlic, and
fresh oil.


Has *anyone* actually contracted botulism and died from putting fresh
garlic in oil??

Or is it all hype brought on by something that *maybe* could happen?


--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia


If we are not meant to eat animals,
why are they made of meat?

JW > wrote in news:thbff4lvblhfuecfkkrtv06803mvhm54c6@
4ax.com:

> Well, I guess no more garlic infused olive oil for me!
>


No need to miss out!!

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/l...314214425.html


http://cecalaveras.ucdavis.edu/garlic.htm


http://www.cheftalk.com/forums/recip...memade-garlic-
oil.html

"I love to serve (roasted) garlic oil with balsamic vinager instead of
butter with bread in my restaurant. The way I make it is to mince the
garlic in a robotcoupe (food processor) and use 1 Tbsp per cup of ex.
virgin olive oil and take that mix and put in a moderate oven or in a
pan over mod. heat and cook for 40 minutes then strain. Chill for
storage and let sit at room temp. to serve. It makes the bread taste
like garlic bread and is healthier that butter. "

http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/539266



--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia


If we are not meant to eat animals,
why are they made of meat?

Mark Thorson wrote:

>
> The priciest restaurant in that neighborhood is about
> 2 blocks away in an old Victorian mansion. It used
> to be a funeral parlour, and I know a couple in which
> the husband is white and the wife is Asian. They ate
> there, and she found out later that the place had been
> a funeral parlour and she was a bit freaked out by that.


Maybe she had just seen Sweeney Todd, the Demon Butcher of Fleet Street.

> there's a house near me,in which the mother of one of my classmates
> died. It was Christmas, there was an open window, and the
> wind blew the curtains over a candle that was placed
> in front of the window. The resulting fire didn't
> damage the house very much, but his mother died.
>
> I wonder if the current residents know that, but I
> don't see any constructive purpose in informing them.
>
> "Hey, somebody burned to death in your house 35 years
> ago! Do you see her ghost very often? I wouldn't live
> there! Freaky, freaky, freaky!"

I'd be surprised if there were many old houses in which no one had died
over the years. When you think about it, how many people actually die
in hospitals? The rest die in various places, including houses.

My mom died in the same bed where I had been born 28 years previously.
My dad died in the house where he had been born 68 years previously. He
was visiting his family of origin in the "old country" after many years.
My FIL died in his own bed.

gloria p

"PeterLucas"
> Omelet >
>> JW > wrote:
>>
>>> A friend made me a salad using garlic infused olive oil.

>> Toss it.
>>
>> There is a real risk of botulism with this procedure.
> Everytime I made garlic infused oil, it bubbled.
>
> It did that for the many years that I made it. I used fresh garlic, and
> fresh oil.

> Has *anyone* actually contracted botulism and died from putting fresh
> garlic in oil??
>
> Or is it all hype brought on by something that *maybe* could happen?

> Peter Lucas

Botulism shows NO signs before it kills. I really don't think that once the
agriculture department discovered what about preserving was killing people,
that they continued to try out different products that might kill you to see
which ones were successful at it. Instead they made a list of all foods
with the problem and said, "Don't do this."

The research hasn't gone forward much since then, so if you would like to
pick it up and continue it, just let us know how you make out with the
boyulism, ok?

I buy garlic in oil, but it is acidified beforehand. The same for chili
oil.

"PeterLucas"
> "I love to serve (roasted) garlic oil with balsamic vinager instead of
> butter with bread in my restaurant. The way I make it is to mince the
> garlic in a robotcoupe (food processor) and use 1 Tbsp per cup of ex.
> virgin olive oil and take that mix and put in a moderate oven or in a >
> pan over mod. heat and cook for 40 minutes then strain. Chill for
> storage and let sit at room temp. to serve. It makes the bread taste
> like garlic bread and is healthier that butter. "

Why in heaven's name use extra virgin if you are going to cook it 40
minutes? That's silly.

"Giusi" > wrote in
:

> "PeterLucas"
>> Omelet >
>>> JW > wrote:
>>>
>>>> A friend made me a salad using garlic infused olive oil.
>
>>> Toss it.
>>>
>>> There is a real risk of botulism with this procedure.
>> Everytime I made garlic infused oil, it bubbled.
>>
>> It did that for the many years that I made it. I used fresh garlic,
>> and fresh oil.
>
>> Has *anyone* actually contracted botulism and died from putting fresh
>> garlic in oil??
>>
>> Or is it all hype brought on by something that *maybe* could happen?
>
>> Peter Lucas
>
> Botulism shows NO signs before it kills. I really don't think that
> once the agriculture department discovered what about preserving was
> killing people, that they continued to try out different products that
> might kill you to see which ones were successful at it. Instead they
> made a list of all foods with the problem and said, "Don't do this."


Exactly....... they don't really know if it does or not, so rather than
risk anything, they just applied a scare tactic which everyone seems to
have taken as gospel.


>
> The research hasn't gone forward much since then, so if you would like
> to pick it up and continue it, just let us know how you make out with
> the boyulism, ok?



Well, I did it for many years, and I'm still here. So are all the people
that ate my food prepared with the garlic oil.



>
> I buy garlic in oil, but it is acidified beforehand. The same for
> chili oil.


Oh, I also used to make a chilli and garlic oil.

But since I got some chilli oil for Christmas one year, I don't need to
make it anymore. I just top it up when it gets low.



--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia


If we are not meant to eat animals,
why are they made of meat?

"Giusi" > wrote in news:6lqrpfFdo0fbU1
@mid.individual.net:

> "PeterLucas"
>> "I love to serve (roasted) garlic oil with balsamic vinager instead of
>> butter with bread in my restaurant. The way I make it is to mince the
>> garlic in a robotcoupe (food processor) and use 1 Tbsp per cup of ex.
>> virgin olive oil and take that mix and put in a moderate oven or in a >
>> pan over mod. heat and cook for 40 minutes then strain. Chill for
>> storage and let sit at room temp. to serve. It makes the bread taste
>> like garlic bread and is healthier that butter. "
>
> Why in heaven's name use extra virgin if you are going to cook it 40
> minutes? That's silly.
>
>
>


Don't know. Ask the dude who wrote it. I gave the web page address with the
quote.



--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia


If we are not meant to eat animals,
why are they made of meat?

On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 09:03:04 +0200, "Giusi" >
wrote:

>"PeterLucas"
>> Omelet >
>>> JW > wrote:
>>>
>>>> A friend made me a salad using garlic infused olive oil.
>
>>> Toss it.
>>>
>>> There is a real risk of botulism with this procedure.
>> Everytime I made garlic infused oil, it bubbled.
>>
>> It did that for the many years that I made it. I used fresh garlic, and
>> fresh oil.
>
>> Has *anyone* actually contracted botulism and died from putting fresh
>> garlic in oil??
>>
>> Or is it all hype brought on by something that *maybe* could happen?
>
>> Peter Lucas
>
>Botulism shows NO signs before it kills.

No - it's a neurotoxin and there are symptoms, although they can vary
from person to person, may be subtle, and may not be apparent until
sometime after the toxin is ingested.

> I really don't think that once the
>agriculture department discovered what about preserving was killing people,
>that they continued to try out different products that might kill you to see
>which ones were successful at it. Instead they made a list of all foods
>with the problem and said, "Don't do this."

It is known what conditions prevent C. botulinum from being active and
producing toxin.

In a boiling waer bath, there is really only one factor the home
canner can control -acidity. Presence of water and lack of oxugen are
going to exist in almost any home-canned product. At home, you have
no way to test for the presence of the bacteria in the thing being
canned - that's a total crap shoot.

"I've been doing it this way for years and I'm still alive" just
means the odds are low. It doesn't mean there is no danger, just that
you've gotten away with it.

Heat will kill the bacteria and destroy the toxin, but it has to be
enough heat for long enough time..

- Mark

Caveat - I am NOT a food preservation scientist. I just decided to do
some research when I realized most of the information being circulated
was inconsistent and a lot of it appeared to be guessing.

>
>The research hasn't gone forward much since then, so if you would like to
>pick it up and continue it, just let us know how you make out with the
>boyulism, ok?
>
>I buy garlic in oil, but it is acidified beforehand. The same for chili
>oil.
>

Mark A.Meggs wrote:
> "Giusi" wrote:
> >"PeterLucas"
> >> Omelet
> >>> �JW wrote:
>
> >>>> A friend made me a salad using garlic infused olive oil.
>
> >>> Toss it.
>
> >>> There is a real risk of botulism with this procedure.
> >> Everytime I made garlic infused oil, it bubbled.
>
> >> It did that for the many years that I made it. I used fresh garlic, and
> >> fresh oil.
>
> >> Has *anyone* actually contracted botulism and died from putting fresh
> >> garlic in oil??
>
> >> Or is it all hype brought on by something that *maybe* could happen?
>
> >> Peter Lucas
>
> >Botulism shows NO signs before it kills.
>
> No - it's a neurotoxin and there are symptoms, although they can vary
> from person to person, may be subtle, and may not be apparent until
> sometime after the toxin is ingested.
>
> > I really don't think that once the
> >agriculture department discovered what about preserving was killing people,
> >that they continued to try out different products that might kill you to see
> >which ones were successful at it. �Instead they made a list of all foods
> >with the problem and said, "Don't do this."
>
> It is known what conditions prevent C. botulinum from being active and
> producing toxin.
>
> In a boiling waer bath, there is really only one factor the home
> canner can control -acidity. �Presence of water and lack of oxugen are
> going to exist in almost any home-canned product. �At home, you have
> no way to test for the presence of the bacteria in the thing being
> canned - that's a total crap shoot.
>
> "I've been doing it this way for years and I'm still alive" �just
> means the odds are low. �It doesn't mean there is no danger, just that
> you've gotten away with it.
>
> Heat will kill the bacteria and destroy the toxin, but it has to be
> enough heat for long enough time..
>
> - Mark
>
> Caveat - I am NOT a food preservation scientist. �I just decided to do
> some research when I realized most of the information being circulated
> was inconsistent and a lot of it appeared to be guessing.

It's the same posters who consistantly fail to research before
posting, that's how they remain consistantly ignorant, at least
they're consistant... for them this is indeed RFG....
rec.food,guessing. I'm absolutely positive that they don't cook
except with the mouth.

The botulism bacteria is present in soil all over the planet. Mostly
it remains dormant. When certain conditions are met botulism bacteria
become active and begin to produce toxin... the most toxic on the
planet. Because garlic and onions grow in the ground and because of
their unique configurations they are prime botulism carriers. I see
no reason whatsoever to infuse oil with garlic in advance anyway, it
won't taste nearly the same as a freshly made garlic and oil mixture.
The commercially preserved garlic so readily available in large
containers nowadays, and is specifically fancied for restaurant use,
tastes nothing like freshly prepared garlic... anyone who actually
cooks knows how funky previously cut and/or bruised garlic and onion
tastes... of course when afflicted with TIAD they'd not notice. Salad
bar crawlers don't realize the real danger lurking, it's botulism,
among a host of other food borne poisons, not so much sneezing and
coughing... you're going to contract whatever the sneezers and
coughers have anyway just from being in the same room with them, but
you will only get food poisoning from actually ingesting the
contaminated foods and/or other contaminated substances like dirt (be
sure to scrub hands well after gardening). Food poisoning is the most
under reported disease... just about everyone suffers from bouts of
food poisoning several times a year, but because most cases are so
mild hardly anyone seeks medical help. However even the most mild
cases are often quite debilitating while going through the throes of
all night sessions on the throne praying for immediate wellness or
death. The vast majority survive and quickly forget... food poisoning
just doesn't get reported... but pretty accurate estimations are
calculated from sales of certain OTC preparations. In the US alone
several millions are suffering some type of food poisoning at some
level 24/7.

Botulism is not something to take lightly... it can and does kill...
the elderly, young, and those with compromised immune systems are
especially vulnerable. Just last year a woman in her mid sixties who
lives alone less than a 1/4 mile down the road from me was found dead
in her home, an autopsy revealed botulism poisoning from consuming
fresh sausage. If ever you buy fresh sausage containing fresh
vegetables like peppers, parsley, onions, and garlic, cook it as soon
as possible, within 24 hours at the most or toss it, do not freeze it
for later use... and cook it well, best to simmer first for at least
20 minutes. Never ever buy any fresh sausage/ground meat from the
"used" meat display (I don't know why any sane person would buy any
meat past its sell-by date... what's a little food poisoning along
with their mental illness). Never ever prepare sausage at home using
fresh garlic, always use dehy... botulism is from the latin for
sausage.

http://www.medicinenet.com/botulism/article.htm


Merriam Webster

bot�u�li�num
noun

Etymology: New Latin, from Latin botulus sausage
Date: 1902

: a spore-forming bacterium (Clostridium botulinum) that secretes
botulinum toxin
---

The problem is, garlic contains water inside it's tiny cells. The oil
will not support the bacterial growth, but sadly, the water in the cells
of the garlic will.

Still, if you make a small enough amount that you can use it up within a
week and KEEP IT IN THE FRIDGE, you'll do fine.

Same goes with any other water-holding flavoring, fresh citrus, peppers,
fresh herbs, etc.

DRIED citrus, herbs and peppers are fine, tho.

I did find this recipe, tho, calling for CRUSHING the garlic first. Im
guessing...crushing the garlic releases the water from the garlic's
cells.

Garlic Oil:
Ingredients:
8 oz Extra Virgin Olive Oil
3 cloves of garlic, peeled and crushed
Add the oil gradually to the garlic in a food processor and process
until all the oil and garlic are fully blended. Pour into a glass bottle
and seal tightly. Refrigerate for 14 days, turning the bottle upside
down once every 2 days. Discard when oil becomes cloudy


LassChance

"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
> Nancy2 wrote:
>> On Oct 16, 9:38 am, JW > wrote:
>>> A friend made me a salad using garlic infused olive oil. I loved it.
>>> She said she packed fresh, peeled garlic cloves in a jar and filled
>>> it with extra virgin olive oil and let it sit for several days on the
>>
>>
>> You and your friend could die from botulism, infusing oil like this
>> without refrigeration. Do some research, fergoodness'sakes.
>
> I really wonder how common or possible this is. Sure - lots of sites warn
> you about it, just like they warn you about eating raw pork. But how
> often does it happen?
>
> -sw

See below.

Dimitri

News 03/06/1989
Chopped Garlic in Oil Mixes


P89-9 Food and Drug
Administration
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Chris Lecos (202) 245-1144

The Food and Drug Administration today warned that consumers may risk
potentially fatal botulism food poisoning from some commercial and homemade
chopped garlic-and-oil mixes if they are left at room temperature instead of
refrigerated. The warning follows an investigation of three
hospitalizations
in New York after use of such a product.
The labels of non-preserved commercial products call for refrigeration,
and FDA emphasized this means refrigeration from manufacturing to
consumption. In particular, garlic-and-oil mixes containing little or no
acidifying agent such as phosphoric or citric acid should be kept
refrigerated
at all times, FDA stressed.
FDA also is notifying producers of the commercial products to review the
formulation and labeling of their products. When refrigeration is needed,
both shipping cartons and products sold at retail should be clearly and
prominently labeled with such statements as "Requires Refrigeration for
Safety" or "Refrigerate Both Before and After Opening," FDA advised.
The New York Department of Health announced Feb. 28 that two men and a
woman from Kingston, N.Y., were hospitalized with botulism after a dinner
Feb. 19 at the home of one of the victims. A chopped garlic and oil mix had
been used in a spread for garlic bread.
Preliminary investigation by the state has implicated a commercially
prepared mix, "Colavita Chopped Garlic in Extra Virgin Olive Oil"
distributed
by Colavita Pasta and Oil Co., Newark, N. J. The firm, which is recalling
all
sizes of the product, told New York officials that distribution was
discontinued more than a year ago. Although the Kingston outbreak is still
being investigated, preliminary reports indicate the product may have been
stored at room temperature, even though the container has a "Keep
Refrigerated" statement on its label.
Botulism is a potentially fatal food poisoning characterized by blurred
or
double vision, speech and breathing difficulty and progressive paralysis.
Without prompt and correct treatment, one-third of those diagnosed may die.
Clostridium botulinum bacteria are widespread in the environment and may
be found on various produce, including garlic, but their spores are harmless
when there is oxygen in the environment. However, the spores can produce a
deadly toxin when in an anaerobic (oxygen free), low acid environment.
Recent
FDA studies have shown that garlic in an oil mixture can support bacterial
growth and toxin production even when very few Clostridium botulinum spores
are present.
Chopped garlic in oil has been implicated in botulism poisoning in the
past. For example, in 1985 37 people suffered botulism poisoning after
eating
a commercial chopped garlic in soybean oil at a Vancouver, British Columbia,
restaurant.

Giusi wrote:
> "Sqwertz"
>
>> I really wonder how common or possible this is. Sure - lots of sites warn
>> you about it, just like they warn you about eating raw pork. But how
>> often does it happen?
>
> The governmental agencies have been working for over 75 years so that it
> will never happen, but it does.

That's a lot of time spent trying to eliminate botulism in garlic.

-sw

"Sqwertz" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> Giusi wrote:
>> "Sqwertz"
>>
>>> I really wonder how common or possible this is. Sure - lots of sites
>>> warn you about it, just like they warn you about eating raw pork. But
>>> how often does it happen?
>>
>> The governmental agencies have been working for over 75 years so that it
>> will never happen, but it does.
>
> That's a lot of time spent trying to eliminate botulism in garlic.
>
> -sw

Yes, but Peter in Australia has offered to take over the research so we can
rest easy.

In article > ,
PeterLucas > wrote:

> old garlic out and put some new stuff in and top it up with oil. Never
> refrigerated it, it was just sitting there on the benchtop going through
> all seasons for a couple of years.
>
> No one got sick. No one died.

Good.

--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.mac.com/barbschaller, Thelma and Louise
On the Road Again - It is Finished

On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 07:10:15 +0000 (UTC), PeterLucas
> wrote:

<snip>

>
>
>Exactly....... they don't really know if it does or not, so rather than
>risk anything, they just applied a scare tactic which everyone seems to
>have taken as gospel.
>
>
>>
>> The research hasn't gone forward much since then, so if you would like
>> to pick it up and continue it, just let us know how you make out with
>> the boyulism, ok?
>
>
>
>Well, I did it for many years, and I'm still here. So are all the people
>that ate my food prepared with the garlic oil.
>
>
>
>>
>> I buy garlic in oil, but it is acidified beforehand. The same for
>> chili oil.
>
>
>Oh, I also used to make a chilli and garlic oil.
>
>But since I got some chilli oil for Christmas one year, I don't need to
>make it anymore. I just top it up when it gets low.

According to the University of California, Davis the pH of garlic runs
between 5.3 and 6.3. The garlic provides water. The oil seals out
oxygen creating an anaerobic environment. These are the conditions in
which C. botulinum spores will go active and produce toxin. Why do
you demand someone actually die to prove it?

By your logic, we'd stop pressure canning too since not every single
low acid vegetable has been proven to produce botulin toxin. The
conditions that allow it to happen are known, so we avoid creating
those conditions.

The State of Victoria health department says there were 6 cases of
botulism poisoning reported in Australia between 1991 and 2003 (wasn't
required to be reported earlier). It's low odds, but given the
consequences why would you chance i especially if someone else's life
is at risk?

From the U. S. Fod and Drug Administration's Center for Food Safety
and Applied Nutrition:

http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~mow/chap2.html

On a lighter note - some amusing info from Uncle Cecil:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...lic-oil-lethal

- Mark

Melba's Jammin' > wrote in
:

> In article > ,
> PeterLucas > wrote:
>
>> old garlic out and put some new stuff in and top it up with oil.
>> Never refrigerated it, it was just sitting there on the benchtop
>> going through all seasons for a couple of years.
>>
>> No one got sick. No one died.
>
> Good.
>



Maybe the garlic we use is different to the stuff you have over there?

I take it the Botulism germ comes from the soil. So if we have clean soil,
no botulism germ??



--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia


If we are not meant to eat animals,
why are they made of meat?