"Sheldon" wrote in message
...
"Janet" wrote:
"kilikini" wrote:

I have to step in, here.

No need, I now understand what he meant.

It sounds like he would be perfectly happy with us: we treat workers with
respect and friendliness, assume that they are there to do a professional
job not be a servant, pay what is agreed upon and pay promptly.

Never thought of tipping.

Bull... you thought of tipping alright, you thought of NOT tipping.


Of course, most of them are independent.

What does that mean... you think construction workers are
independantly wealthy... sheesh, my doctor missed his calling, he
shoulda been a roofing and siding installer, then he could drive an
old Ford instead of a new Mercedes. You're nuts.

No you stupid loudmouth jerk, I mean that they work for themselves, not for
a contractor.

On Wed 16 Jul 2008 11:11:24a, blake murphy told us...

On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 22:51:00 -0500, Kathleen
wrote:

At the St. Louis Bread Company (known as Panera in other cities), they
used to attempt to foster a faux "friendly" atmosphere by demanding a
first name to attach to your order. This was then hollered out over a
loudspeaker when your food was ready to be picked up at the counter. To
make it even more obnoxious, at least half the time the counter person
would balk at keying in "Kathleen" (OMFG! 8 whole characters!), and
would insist on shortening it to "Kathy" (used only by my nuclear family
of origin), or in one case, "Kate", which I've never used at all. I had
no idea they were addressing me when they repeated, "Order up for Kate"
as my lunch sat on the counter cooling.

I complained to the manager. Told her just give me a freakin' order
number, that I didn't care for having my name bellowed by strangers and
that if they were really a "friendly little local sammich kiosk" they
wouldn't have to ask my name and key it into a terminal.

In retrospect, I missed an opportunity to amuse myself by failing to
give a creative nickname like maybe "Zorro", or "Darth Crabby".


a pal of mine used to always use 'norman,' 'n. bates' or, if feeling
especially frisky, 'norman bates,' in homage to his movie idol.

your best friend,
mother




I guess that's better than saying "Master Bates".

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Wednesday, 07(VII)/16(XVI)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
I was born to speak all mirth and no
matter. -- Shakespeare
-------------------------------------------

On Jul 15, 11:22�pm, TFM� wrote:
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message

...



"kilikini" wrote in message

I have to step in, here. �You have NO idea how hard TFM� works (when he's
working). �He's always the most intelligent, diligent guy on the job; he
measures out curves and elipses, he's fast and he's accurate. �It's his
boss and his boss' sons with whom he works that are the lazy slobs.

He should be working on his own and �charging a fair dollar for what he
does. �No need to work for idiots.

It's not rational to think about going into the construction
contracting business in an area where there's already such a decline
in construction that the existing contractors not only can't keep the
trades people working they themselves are not able to stay in business
and are dropping like flies. And starting up a construction company
is much easier said than done... when you can barely afford food
construction equipment is untenable.

Anybody know somebody here in the Tampa area that needs
a skilled carpenter?

There is no ball and chain on you, NONE! The only thing holding you
is you with whatever excuses you can concoct. Nothing is preventing
you from picking up your tool box and heading down the road to a
location where construction is booming, and there are plenty, just not
in fercocktah florida. People in trades can never presume to ply
their trade in one area all their lives, that's why the term
Journeyman. You're also relatively young, you can easily change
occupations with a lateral move, even a starting wage pay check is
tons better than no pay check. Most construction workers your age
have long ago broadened their repertoire to cover a few different
construction trades. With the boom in modular housing there soon
won't be any need for construction carpenters at all, but there is
already a huge shortage of heavy equipment operators; dozer, backhoe,
and excavator operators are well paid and there's no shortage of
work. Can't find a nailer job is just a lame excuse. Anyway, face
facts, the construction carpentry trade as you know it is practically
obsolete... stick built construction is a thing of the past, even very
wealthy people are going modular. I see multimillion dollar modulars
popping up like mushrooms around here, once the site is prepped and
utilities are in the flat bed trucks arrive and gorgeous homes are
ready to move in within the week.

"cshenk" wrote

Did I mention the one time i did tip with money? It is not really a tip.
A fellow wanted only 30$ labor to install a prehung door. Thats just too
low. He also had to do lots of extra stuff with the lintel. (I think thats
the right name, that wood above the door, part of ther frame?). I added
70$ plus as normal, lots of food. He needs low salt and low fat. Last
ime he was here, he got baked stuffed squid, sliced fresh tomatoes, fresh
bread, and a congee I had going. (he's done several jobs since and is
slated to help us put up paneling in the sunroom, general handyman sort of
fellow).




It's called a "header" in wood frame construction. Lintel would be
referring to concrete block construction.

You sound like a great person to work for.


TFM®

"cshenk" wrote in message
...
"TFM®" wrote

Working outside on someone's house in the Florida heat makes us less than
appealing candidates for inside restroom privileges.

LOL! I have always told *everyone* on any team or if just one worker, feel
free and made sure I had an extra roll of toilet tissue on the back of the
toilet.

I expect anyone working outside on my house to get hot and sweaty!

I also tell them I will get very upset if they do NOT have plenty of cold
water and drink it real regular as I am from hot country (Sasebo Japan,
UAE middle east etc) and heat stroke is no fun. Drink lots and pee lots.

Oh gack, can you put up with yet another story from me here?

2001 (predates my Japan and middle east). Young fellow, roof worker. 18
or so is my best guess? It was heat index a mere 105 (I call that low
now). Fellow aparently knew only carbonated caffiene drinks. Hello...
They had to carry him down.



One day a couple of years ago we had a Minnesotan working with us. He was
addicted to energy drinks.

About an hour after lunch he was dying of thirst. We all bring our own
water here.
Somebody lent him $5 and he took off to the store just down the road.

Silly sumbitch came back with 2 16 oz. energy drinks and not a drop of
water. He had to leave early that day.


TFM®

So, ironically, I just found out that we have a crew of 4 coming on Friday
morning to add some insulation to our house (Foam in the cellar, blown in
cellulose in the attic. No wrestling with nasty fiberglass batts.) According
to the big spenders in the group, we should tip these guys how much for one
day's work?

On Jul 16, 9:03�am, "cshenk" wrote:
"MareCat" wrote

We're leaning toward giving each of the workers at least $100 (haven't
decided exactly how much at this point). I'll also ask for some business
cards from the contractor to hand out to people.

Grin, they will like this. �Cash especially. �The hard part is they wont all
be there at the end of the job and if you give it to the 'foreman' they may
not all get it.

Very interesting to hear everyone's opinions in this thread!

Yeah, to me, I feed'em from day one. �*Some* organizations do not allow
this. �Dont push it if so as the workers can get fired if they accept and
one squeals. �Rare but can be seen. �Seemed to be 'can not accept any gifts
of money or other directly, must be given to the foreman or lead contractor'
and it seems to me the rare time I encounter it, like they are ripping off
the workers and taking a share which they *cant* do if it's just food on
site.

Do you realize that you haven't written even one properly constructed
sentence, yours are all sentence fragments so there is no way to know
what you're babbling about. I have a TIP for you, cshenk, enrol in a
remedial English writing course... your English writing is retarded.

Some... actually many organizations do not permit their employees to
accept tips, but in all my years I've never encountered even one home
construction company that disallowed tipping their employees. And
even if certain laborers are not there for the entire duration it is
almost always obvious when someone is packing up their tools and
preparing to depart and so it's no problem handing them the dollars
and saying thnk you as they leave. And any of the major workers who
have been present day after day will make it known it's their last
day, I've never seen that not happen that they say this is my last day
(it's not traditional to tip a helper that worked for a sub for a day
or less). And even if you somehow miss the opportunity, for the
purpose of tipping any of the crew the Contractor will be happy to
supply contact info for that employee. I've never had to give money
to the contractor in hopes the worker would receive it. Contractors
are very pleased when a customer tips their employees.

Ill never cease to be amazed at how the cheap mother****ers
manufacture all manner of circumstances to rationalize why when it
comes to paying money tehy think they can get out of they are exempt
from doing the right thing. And of course there is no onus for
tipping, but then don't squawk when you request those services again
and you're met with a big fat **** YOU. And so what will you do the
next time you need home improvement work... every contractor and their
crew for many miles will have you blackballed... they'll do the work
alright, they'll quote you higher prices... and don't expect it to be
so plesant an experience the second go round. This never tipping
attitude sure makes me wonder if any of yoose tightwads ever return to
the same eateries and hair salons... maybe where you live there are
many more to choose from so you never have to frequent the same one
twice.... I know I'd not return to a restaurant or barber I neglected
to tip.... I'd end up served food laced with bodily fluids and some
warty scalp disease.

There really isn't that much money involved in tipping for even a
large home construction project.. you don't tip the Contractor or
Subs, only the crew... and rarely are there more than three, usually
there are only two or they'd be falling all over each other... plus
the contractor keeps the crew to a minimum because why should he have
to pay wages for guys to stand around and not work because they are in
each other's way. For a complete kitchen the tipping cost relative to
the expenditure will come to no more than ordering a $500 dinner at a
fancy schmancy multi star and tipping $5. Anyone who orders up a
$20,000 kitchen and claims they can't afford $200 in tips is a liar,
they never built any kitchen, maybe they bought a new fridge, maybe...
a bottom end model.

I bought my tenant a new stove recently, from Lowes... two guys
arrived (I was their last stop) with a huge Lowes truck and removed
the old stove, hauled it out to the truck, unwrapped and hauled in the
new stove and installed it, and even gave me a brand new wire gratis
because I forgot to order a new one (actually no one mentioned that I
needed one because they are now configured differently so I couldn't
use the old wire with the new stove, that wire would have cost like
$30 -- I ordered the stove over the phone - the gal knew nothing about
stoves, only took the info needed for delivery). The guys were
pleasant, helpful, and removed all the packing trash... plus it took
them an extra 20 minutes to attach the new electric cable. They could
have said they didn't have one, in fact at first they did, but a
minute later found one in the truck... I'd have to drive to a store
and buy one, and them install it myself. I tipped them each a ten
spot, everyone was happy. I mean when you figure the difference
between $20 in tips for like an hour job that is as straight foward as
they get and no sweating compared with $200 for like 160+ hours worth
of hard labor where every day is a chance to screw up many dollars
worth of kitchen... there really isn't anything else to say other than
CHEAP *******S DON'T TIP.

I've never yet paid more by tipping, always less, often substantially
less... those who don't tip get screwed in the end, payback is a
bitch. I'm actually very glad many of yoose don't tip, makes life
better for me.

On Jul 15, 6:42*am, Wayne Boatwright wrote:
On Tue 15 Jul 2008 05:38:16a, George Shirley told us...



Wayne Boatwright wrote:
On Mon 14 Jul 2008 09:17:55p, Kathleen told us...

Dirty Harry wrote:

"Peter" wrote in message
...

"MareCat" wrote in message
...

We're currently in the middle of a kitchen remodeling job (new
cabinets, countertops, backsplash, sink, island, flooring,
lighting, painting, and removing two walls). The contractor and
workers have been *awesome* so far (making excellent progress, very
easy to work with, constantly giving us updates, company owner
comes to the work site to check work and meet with us every day,
etc.). They're even expecting to complete the project almost a week
earlier than planned (just over two weeks--rather than three
weeks--from start to finish).

If all ends up well (as we fully expect it will), we'd like to give
each of the two workers some sort of tip. What is the proper
etiquette for tipping contractors/workers for projects like this?
Just wondering what others here have done.

TIA-
Mary
I don't think they expect tips, I've never given one to a
contractor. Maybe some gift certs for dinner or movies so they can
take their better half out, or my usual favorite, a case of beer, if
you think they deserve it.

I have movers coming in a couple days and I'll have a case of beer
for each of them (3), if they do a good job.

I don't know of any contractors that wouldn't appreciate a case or 2
of good beer! *Might be a good way of saying thanks instead of cash.
Not contractors, but at the barn where my daughter used to board her
horse they paid a small fee in addition to their monthly board to have
their horses trailered to local shows and events.

Granted that the fee was supposed to cover gas and hassle, and granted
that the drivers were taking their own horses up anyway to compete, I
still appreciated the effort and made a point of noticing what the
staff liked to drink, given the opportunity, as opposed to what they
mostly could afford, and generally dropped off a case of Guinness or
something nice to have on bonfire nights - most of them lived on site..

I view that more of an appreciative gesture of "thanks" than as a tip,
per se.

At the local cycling emporium, cash tips to mechanics were discouraged
but boxes of fresh donuts, trays of tall cafe mochas or Blizzards were
happily received.

Again a nice appreciative gesture.

I tip in restaurants, bellboys in hotels, and taxis...mostly because
it's expected, not particularly because I always feel it's deserved.

Heh, heh, I do much the same except I only leave a very obvious penny
when the service sucks. I've had people throw the penny at me on my way
out. didn't hurt my feelings and maybe their next customer will be
served properly and not ignored while they chat with their friends, etc..

George, I have done exactly the same thing on a few occasions. *There are
times when they deserve an insult, and I wouldn't want them to think that I
"forgot" the tip. *If there was also a manager handy, I usually voiced my
opinion to them, as well.

--
* * * * * * *Wayne Boatwright * * * * * *
-------------------------------------------
* * *Tuesday, 07(VII)/15(XV)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
* *It would be nice if entropy could be *
* * *used for something constructive. * *
-------------------------------------------

Service that bad in a restaurant results in a request to my server to
have the manager visit me at my table. Hasn't happened more than two
or three times that I can remember. But when I left without tipping on
those occasions the server was quite clear that I hadn't simply
forgotten.

ChattyCathy wrote:
TFM� wrote:

I guess you've never had a job done well then.

As a hired hand working for a contractor I appreciate the shit out of
anything extra in the way of a tip the homeowner decides to give out.

I work closely with the homeowners on all remodels and I generally have
their phone number and they have mine.

You can bet your ass I'll answer the phone a lot quicker and come running
if there's a problem if they're not skinflint, demanding *******s.

You would most likely get my voicemail.

TFM�

Heh. It always amazes me that every time somebody brings up anything to do
with 'tipping' it turns most r.f.c-ers into a bunch of 'outraged citizens'.

Let's put this all into perspective shall we?

According to my knowledge (and M-W agrees with me), gratuities (a.k.a. tips)
are not mandatory for services rendered. In this case, you are only
obligated to pay up for whatever was quoted and agreed upon. So why some
folks automatically assume people are 'cheapskates' because they only tip
when they feel it's *deserved* (and if they can afford to do it), is beyond
me.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gratuity

Main Entry:
� � gra�tu�ity
Date:
� � 1540

: something given voluntarily or beyond obligation usually for some service;
especially : tip


Of course tipping is voluntary, you saying something we didn't already
know... even a low IQ ten year old knows that... but then neither is
going the extra mile by the service people manditory... entirely your
choice what kind of service you receive... you're in total control. I
can really see why contractor types screw you left, right, and
center... you got it all figured out.

Lou Decruss wrote:

LOL. �It has been a pretty funny thread the read. �Another one that
hasn't come up recently is fat acceptance and obese people on
airplanes. �I loved reading those. �

Not to worry, at the rate fuel prices are climbing into the
stratosphere and all the surchages keep being added hardly anyone of
any size will fly anymore. Airplane seats nowadays are much too small
anyway, even 1st class seating is now far more cramped than tourist
was back in the 50s-60s. In fact automobile seats are now way too
cramped... even a full size pick up seat measures only 18" across the
same as the stoopid steamer trunk sized center console that steals all
the space that could have made seating more comfortable but instead
totally wastes it... there must be a lot of splinter assed
construction worker types nowadays. A baby changing table is more
than 18" wide. Car seating is much too narrow, I don't want to sit
with my thighs clamped together, I can't... it's literally a ball
buster.

"TFM®" wrote
"cshenk" wrote in message

Oh gack, can you put up with yet another story from me here?

2001 (predates my Japan and middle east). Young fellow, roof worker. 18
or so is my best guess? It was heat index a mere 105 (I call that low
now). Fellow aparently knew only carbonated caffiene drinks. Hello...
They had to carry him down.

One day a couple of years ago we had a Minnesotan working with us. He was
addicted to energy drinks.

Bad news there. Not suitable IMHO at any time but definately not when
working in the heat.

About an hour after lunch he was dying of thirst. We all bring our own
water here.
Somebody lent him $5 and he took off to the store just down the road.

Silly sumbitch came back with 2 16 oz. energy drinks and not a drop of
water. He had to leave early that day.

*sigh*. I really miss the much good 'sports drinks' (you'd call them that
here in the USA) 'electrolyte replacement' drinks of Japan. My favorite was
Pocari Sweat and there was another one i never did get a translation of the
name of (all in Japanese script) that i liked very well.

Sasebo is southern japan so heat index of 120F is not uncommon. You learn
that a main part of feeling to hot can be due to being dehydrated. I am
*not* adverse to walking (one way, double for round trip) 2 miles with my
pull cart to go shopping in heat index 110-115F but tend to stay closer to a
mere mile walk if it's over that.

We at home called it 'bottle weather' meaning how many bottles of water
you'd drink in an hour. 90F is 1. 100F is 2. 110F is 3. 120F is 4. It's
really simple. These were small 6-8oz ones bought cold all along the way
(they have drink machines every 1/2 mile or less).

"Janet" wrote

So, ironically, I just found out that we have a crew of 4 coming on Friday
morning to add some insulation to our house (Foam in the cellar, blown in
cellulose in the attic. No wrestling with nasty fiberglass batts.)
According to the big spenders in the group, we should tip these guys how
much for one day's work?

Use your best judgement. You'll have seen a wide variety here on how
various people handle this. With over 25,000$ worth of contracting work and
DIY parts to repair renter damage, I havent tipped in money (except the one
fellow who undercharged) because I do not have it. Miltary dont make all
that much (this is 2/3 my annual take home).

I do not stint the food or cold drinks. Expect in hot weather they may
drink 1/2 a drink then get a new cold one. I make up lots of ice cold
gatoraide and have plenty of cups in hot weather. Sure, they'd 'love' to
get 100$ each extra but they want to come back here because we appreciate
them and show it in our own way.

Grin, you'll note perhaps TFM who does contracting work, would be delighted
to come here.

On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 16:58:11 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 16:05:01 +0200, ChattyCathy
wrote:

Heh. It always amazes me that every time somebody brings up anything to
do with 'tipping' it turns most r.f.c-ers into a bunch of 'outraged
citizens'.

LOL. It has been a pretty funny thread the read. Another one that
hasn't come up recently is fat acceptance and obese people on
airplanes. I loved reading those.

Lou


It seems pretty clear to me. If your body is taking up two spaces, you
need to buy two seats.

If the airlines keep going in the direction they've taken on charging to
check luggage, etc., maybe they'll start charging by the weight of each
passenger. :-)

They should make the metal detectors narrow enough to deny a person
who can't walk through them (forward) and sit in a seat and not have
their fat ass ooze over to my seat and arm flab drooping over the arm
rest. What I found so disgusting were the links that were posted for
the fat acceptance junk. I found them incredibly selfish, including
the suggestion to get on board early and pull the armrest up. The
next suggested step was to stop the person who sat next to you from
pulling the armrest down. You tell them: We'll both be more
comfortable with it up." I don't remember all the suggestions but
most involved infringing on others. And the claim that obesity is a
handicap and they deserve special perks like special seating in
theaters just amazes me. The only handicap grossly obese people have
lies between their ears.

Lou